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Made in gb
Automated Rubric Marine of Tzeentch





UK

Having recently bought Hexfire and the GK and TS codexes, I found myself reminiscing about playing GK back in 1st edition. Long evenings spent as a teenager poring over Slaves to Darkness and the Compilation which contained the rules for Ordo Malleus armies and GK Terminators...

Looking back at them now though, despite still being fantastic books, I have to concede that a 9th edition codex is such a beautiful thing in comparison.

In fact, the only thing I think was better back then (and I've mentioned this before about the 9th edition codexes), is that there aren't images (or in some cases, complete images) for all units that have datasheets. This is particularly noticeable for the TS codex, where I assume the studio didn't have some of the vehicles painted up in TS colours. It's a shame, because as a teenager, being able to see what all the units looked like really fired my imagination (even if some of the drawings accompanying the datasheets were a bit goofy). New players now could buy the TS codex and have no idea what some of the datasheets represent.

Aside from that though, I'd have given anything back then to have this much content (in colour!) about my army.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/09/07 08:02:14


[1,800] Chaos Knights | [1,250] Thousand Sons | [1,000] Grey Knights | 40K editions: RT, 8, 9, 10 | https://www.flickr.com/photos/dreadblade/  
   
Made in de
Longtime Dakkanaut



Bamberg / Erlangen

While the production quality is higher now, I have to say I prefer the codizes from 3rd to 5th edition when it wasn't hard cover.

They felt more like a "usable game material" to me and less like a collector item. And I don't like the "new" way how rules, points and wargear is sorted.

   
Made in gb
Automated Rubric Marine of Tzeentch





UK

I have to say I am a fan of the hardback format. Softback gaming books get dog-eared very quickly. I'm not sure about the new larger format 9th edition books though. They're a bit big to transport to games.

[1,800] Chaos Knights | [1,250] Thousand Sons | [1,000] Grey Knights | 40K editions: RT, 8, 9, 10 | https://www.flickr.com/photos/dreadblade/  
   
Made in de
Ork Admiral Kroozin Da Kosmos on Da Hulk






 dreadblade wrote:
I have to say I am a fan of the hardback format. Softback gaming books get dog-eared very quickly. I'm not sure about the new larger format 9th edition books though. They're a bit big to transport to games.


I feel like the format of the GT/Crusade Pack books is perfect for gaming. They should just do all books that way.

7 Ork facts people always get wrong:
Ragnar did not win against Thrakka, but suffered two crushing defeats within a few days of each other.
A lasgun is powerful enough to sever an ork's appendage or head in a single, well aimed shot.
Orks meks have a better understanding of electrics and mechanics than most Tech Priests.
Orks do not think that purple makes them harder to see. They do think that camouflage does however, without knowing why.
Gharkull Blackfang did not even come close to killing the emperor.
Orks can be corrupted by chaos, but few of them have any interest in what chaos offers.
Orks do not have the power of believe. 
   
Made in de
Battlefield Tourist






Nuremberg

I think there is certainly a huge amount of nostalgia and rose-tinting going on for me when I look at older products vs. new. Terminator vs. Intercessor is not really a big difference at all but I like the former and roll my eyes at the latter.

That said, I do really love the black and white line art of old GW publications. As artwork it has it's own style and mood that is different to the more modern high quality colour art. I think it's fine to prefer either from an artistic standpoint, though some of the older stuff for sure is more poorly executed by less talented artists, or equally talented artists not being paid to take as much time with the pieces.

But I really love the emotional reaction the black and white line art evokes for me, and it's not just in Warhammer, I love old school RPG art, and black and white line art in comics like 2000AD. But It's for sure heavily influenced by nostalgia and my childhood.

What's great is that we have access to both things now, so I can look at old books and new books and take what I like from both.

   
Made in gb
Ridin' on a Snotling Pump Wagon






The only thing I’m missing from the current batch of Codexes is unit background stuff.

The rest of them is pretty cool, and I certainly appreciate the more narrative Combat Patrol stuff. Not only is it something different for us old timers, but it’s a decent way to ease new players into building up an army, rather than chasing 2,000 points straight off. It’s actually closer to Rogue Trader in size and feel than some might think. Perhaps not as crazy, but welcome all the same.

Just….put in the unit backgrounds as well, please!

   
Made in pl
Fixture of Dakka




I wonder what would have to happen to the game, for me to think that 8th ed was the good times. I can't really imagine what would have to be.

If you have to kill, then kill in the best manner. If you slaughter, then slaughter in the best manner. Let one of you sharpen his knife so his animal feels no pain. 
   
Made in dk
Loyal Necron Lychguard






There is a Russian who knows how to optimize a codex for gaming, I would love if GW hired him.

The 3rd edition Necron codex + and -
- Lacked the rules for wargear on the datasheets
- Awful organisation, fluff and art in between the rules for regular units and unique characters.
- Fluff + art in the margins of datasheets failed to flesh out the faction.
+ Part of the charm was that a lot was left to the imagination.
+ Painting, terrain, tactics and mission content.

The 5th edition Necron codex + and -
- Statlines + tonnes of fluff + special rules printed one place, statlines + names of wargear and special rules the unit has + options + points printed in another place. Statlines are repeated and wargear and special rules are repeated for no reason and flipping through to find a unit's rules is difficult because of the amount of fluff mixed in with the rules.
- Gallery sandwiched between the first and second time the statlines are listed.

The 7th edition Necron codex + and -
- feels fake and copy pasted due to a lack of proper art, MS-paint sketches showing colour schemes and markings and lack of proper formating.
- The rules for the unique Necron Detachment and the Formations you put into that Detachment is seperated by 100 pages
- large pictures of models and fluff takes up a tonne of space next to each datasheet instead of being in a seperate place in the codex.

The 8th edition Necrons codex + and -
+ art and fluff together followed by pictures of the actual models followed by an example army.
- Some pictures of models and art break up the datasheet section and there are two pages with images between the datasheets and army rules.
+ Best formating a Necrons codex has had ever.
- Points cannot be found on the datasheet and there is a lot of needless math as you weapons cost the same for every unit, so even if Immortals cost 17 regardless of what weapon they take they are listed as costing 8 points and then you have to hunt down the price of their wargear.

The 9th edition Necrons codex + and -
- Model pictures and lore in the margins of datasheets means there is a lack of art for units and there is very little fluff and the text size for datasheets has been made smaller to fit the fluff and pictures into the margins.
- There are larger pictures that break up the datasheet section.
- Crusade rules, a name generator and an example army is sandwiched inbetween army rules and datasheets, instead of having fluff + art -> example army -> crusade rules -> datasheets -> army rules.
- Points still cannot be found on datasheets.
+ GW did the math for how much an Immortal costs.
+ Crusade rules are a thing.
+ Lots of new art, not just the same recycled stuff again.

8th>9th>3rd>5th>7th if I cared more about Crusade than I do then 9th would be number 1.
   
Made in gb
Automated Rubric Marine of Tzeentch





UK

I expect a lot of people remember the first edition they played with fondness. In my case I didn't play between 1st edition and 8th edition!

[1,800] Chaos Knights | [1,250] Thousand Sons | [1,000] Grey Knights | 40K editions: RT, 8, 9, 10 | https://www.flickr.com/photos/dreadblade/  
   
Made in gb
Frenzied Berserker Terminator




Southampton, UK

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
The only thing I’m missing from the current batch of Codexes is unit background stuff.

The rest of them is pretty cool, and I certainly appreciate the more narrative Combat Patrol stuff. Not only is it something different for us old timers, but it’s a decent way to ease new players into building up an army, rather than chasing 2,000 points straight off. It’s actually closer to Rogue Trader in size and feel than some might think. Perhaps not as crazy, but welcome all the same.

Just….put in the unit backgrounds as well, please!


Yes, absolutely this. It's like GW have forgotten about new players, and are assuming everyone's read all the unit background stuff before. When each unit used to have a full page, or even double-page spread, of lore; the little break-out box in the current books feels painfully inadequate. Although it was crap for the actual rules, the 6th edition CSM codex was brilliant for lore. The page on how heldrakes are formed from heavily warped, mutated and daemon-possessed imperial fighters is awesome. I love the idea that buried within each heldrake is the ruined husk of an imperial pilot, whose cries of torment are broadcast as the shrieks of the dragon-daemon-monster he has become. I imagine the 9th edition codex won't go into much more detail than "dragon dinobot LOL"...
   
Made in gb
Preparing the Invasion of Terra






The paper back books were good for swatting bugs and were lighter for transport but are a pain in the butt for actual use IMO. My Bolt Action books never just sit open on a rules page and constantly flip to things I don't need if I don't hold it open.
Hardbacks I can just plop down and keep open on the pages I want but are heavier and I think generally larger as well so less easy to transport.
   
Made in gb
Automated Rubric Marine of Tzeentch





UK

Crispy78 wrote:
The page on how heldrakes are formed from heavily warped, mutated and daemon-possessed imperial fighters is awesome. I love the idea that buried within each heldrake is the ruined husk of an imperial pilot, whose cries of torment are broadcast as the shrieks of the dragon-daemon-monster he has become. I imagine the 9th edition codex won't go into much more detail than "dragon dinobot LOL"...


In the 9th edition TS codex they do at least have a partial photo next to the datasheet (unlike other vehicles), but only a two-sentence description. They're not mentioned in the rest of the book

A new player wanting to take a Chaos Vindicator, Chaos Land Raider, Chaos Predator Destructor, Defiler or a Maulerfiend gets a two sentence description next to the datasheet and no photo

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/09/07 11:12:50


[1,800] Chaos Knights | [1,250] Thousand Sons | [1,000] Grey Knights | 40K editions: RT, 8, 9, 10 | https://www.flickr.com/photos/dreadblade/  
   
Made in fi
Locked in the Tower of Amareo





 dreadblade wrote:
I have to say I am a fan of the hardback format. Softback gaming books get dog-eared very quickly. I'm not sure about the new larger format 9th edition books though. They're a bit big to transport to games.


I would love ringbound books. Like CA20 or now GHB21 in AOS side.

THAT'S convenient for gaming.

2024 painted/bought: 109/109 
   
Made in us
Shadowy Grot Kommittee Memba






I really do miss the longform lore descriptions and the old fifth-ed style art for each thing. That's really the only thing about codexes I miss a lot - I've got no particular love for the old 'timeline' thing that they used to do, always felt like a space-filler to me, but man do I miss that old sketch art.

"Got you, Yugi! Your Rubric Marines can't fall back because I have declared the tertiary kaptaris ka'tah stance two, after the secondary dacatarai ka'tah last turn!"

"So you think, Kaiba! I declared my Thousand Sons the cult of Duplicity, which means all my psykers have access to the Sorcerous Facade power! Furthermore I will spend 8 Cabal Points to invoke Cabbalistic Focus, causing the rubrics to appear behind your custodes! The Vengeance for the Wronged and Sorcerous Fullisade stratagems along with the Malefic Maelstrom infernal pact evoked earlier in the command phase allows me to double their firepower, letting me wound on 2s and 3s!"

"you think it is you who has gotten me, yugi, but it is I who have gotten you! I declare the ever-vigilant stratagem to attack your rubrics with my custodes' ranged weapons, which with the new codex are now DAMAGE 2!!"

"...which leads you straight into my trap, Kaiba, you see I now declare the stratagem Implacable Automata, reducing all damage from your attacks by 1 and triggering my All is Dust special rule!"  
   
Made in gb
Killer Klaivex




The dark behind the eyes.

 vict0988 wrote:
There is a Russian who knows how to optimize a codex for gaming, I would love if GW hired him.

The 3rd edition Necron codex + and -
- Lacked the rules for wargear on the datasheets
- Awful organisation, fluff and art in between the rules for regular units and unique characters.
- Fluff + art in the margins of datasheets failed to flesh out the faction.
+ Part of the charm was that a lot was left to the imagination.
+ Painting, terrain, tactics and mission content.

The 5th edition Necron codex + and -
- Statlines + tonnes of fluff + special rules printed one place, statlines + names of wargear and special rules the unit has + options + points printed in another place. Statlines are repeated and wargear and special rules are repeated for no reason and flipping through to find a unit's rules is difficult because of the amount of fluff mixed in with the rules.
- Gallery sandwiched between the first and second time the statlines are listed.

The 7th edition Necron codex + and -
- feels fake and copy pasted due to a lack of proper art, MS-paint sketches showing colour schemes and markings and lack of proper formating.
- The rules for the unique Necron Detachment and the Formations you put into that Detachment is seperated by 100 pages
- large pictures of models and fluff takes up a tonne of space next to each datasheet instead of being in a seperate place in the codex.

The 8th edition Necrons codex + and -
+ art and fluff together followed by pictures of the actual models followed by an example army.
- Some pictures of models and art break up the datasheet section and there are two pages with images between the datasheets and army rules.
+ Best formating a Necrons codex has had ever.
- Points cannot be found on the datasheet and there is a lot of needless math as you weapons cost the same for every unit, so even if Immortals cost 17 regardless of what weapon they take they are listed as costing 8 points and then you have to hunt down the price of their wargear.

The 9th edition Necrons codex + and -
- Model pictures and lore in the margins of datasheets means there is a lack of art for units and there is very little fluff and the text size for datasheets has been made smaller to fit the fluff and pictures into the margins.
- There are larger pictures that break up the datasheet section.
- Crusade rules, a name generator and an example army is sandwiched inbetween army rules and datasheets, instead of having fluff + art -> example army -> crusade rules -> datasheets -> army rules.
- Points still cannot be found on datasheets.
+ GW did the math for how much an Immortal costs.
+ Crusade rules are a thing.
+ Lots of new art, not just the same recycled stuff again.

8th>9th>3rd>5th>7th if I cared more about Crusade than I do then 9th would be number 1.


Not a Necron codex, I know, but I always thought the 4th edition Tyranid codex had a far better layout than all the subsequent books.

You had the army rules first, then weapon descriptions, then psychic powers, then the biomorph upgrades, and then all the unit entries. Every unit entry had a short description (plus artwork for all but two) and, perhaps most importantly, they all included both the base cost of the unit and every upgrade the unit could purchase (along with the cost of said upgrades).

I never understood how we got from that to every unit having two different entries - one for its rules and then a second for its cost and wargear.

 blood reaper wrote:
I will respect human rights and trans people but I will never under any circumstances use the phrase 'folks' or 'ya'll'. I would rather be killed by firing squad.



 the_scotsman wrote:
Yeah, when i read the small novel that is the Death Guard unit options and think about resolving the attacks from a melee-oriented min size death guard squad, the thing that springs to mind is "Accessible!"

 Argive wrote:
GW seems to have a crystal ball and just pulls hairbrained ideas out of their backside for the most part.


 Andilus Greatsword wrote:

"Prepare to open fire at that towering Wraithknight!"
"ARE YOU DAFT MAN!?! YOU MIGHT HIT THE MEN WHO COME UP TO ITS ANKLES!!!"


Akiasura wrote:
I hate to sound like a serial killer, but I'll be reaching for my friend occam's razor yet again.


 insaniak wrote:

You're not. If you're worried about your opponent using 'fake' rules, you're having fun the wrong way. This hobby isn't about rules. It's about buying Citadel miniatures.

Please report to your nearest GW store for attitude readjustment. Take your wallet.
 
   
Made in dk
Loyal Necron Lychguard






 vipoid wrote:
...I always thought the 4th edition Tyranid codex had a far better layout than all the subsequent books.

Perhaps relative to other Tyranids codexes, the fluff and should IMO not have been in the rules section but separate with room to breathe and the pictures of models should have come before the rules, that way going to the back would get you to the rules instead of having to fish between fluff and pictures to find rules. All the example versions of upgraded bioforms didn't need to be in the rules section either, let people have fun trying to imitate the fluffy text earlier in the book with all the crunchy options. To my eye it seems no better than the 7th edition Necrons codex, except for the blunder of not having the detachment and formations together.
   
Made in de
Contagious Dreadnought of Nurgle





I really liked the maps in 8th. I still wonder if anyone made a program/ website where all the different maps from the 8th edition codizes are put together to really have a detailed 40K map (I know GW themselves had something like that, but it didn't use all the information that was in the Codizes IIRC).

I also liked the timelines. And the little short stories, some of these have returned in 9th. The famous 3.5 CSM codex was very light on fluff overall, but at least it had a cool short story that highlighted how the veteran CSM view their noob cousins.

I also liked Designer's commentary in earlier editions, where you were encouraged to convert your models or invent your own background. It made the Codex feel more like hobby material instead of serious corporate business that 40K is today.

Concerning the design of a codex as gaming material 9th did it best, I think. No stupid galery in between my rules, everything is at a place that makes sense. Also yay, crusade. Points being in one place at the end doesn't bother me - I simply use what battlescribe spits out anyway .

I must say I don't miss painting guides in codizes. I never looked at them and felt they didn't belong there, and the internet has made them irrelevant anyway.
   
Made in au
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.

I'm not sure it's rose-tinted nostalgia to pine for older style Codices when some of the older books had tons more fluff and more expansive coloured sections than the 8th/9th Ed stuff.

Industrial Insanity - My Terrain Blog
"GW really needs to understand 'Less is more' when it comes to AoS." - Wha-Mu-077

 
   
Made in dk
Loyal Necron Lychguard






Sgt. Cortez wrote:
I really liked the maps in 8th. I still wonder if anyone made a program/ website where all the different maps from the 8th edition codizes are put together...

https://warhammer40000.com/?utm_source=Warhammer%20Community&utm_medium=Post&utm_campaign=GalacticCartographySighted10082020&utm_content=GalacticCartographySighted10082020
   
Made in gb
Dakka Veteran



Dudley, UK

 dreadblade wrote:
I have to say I am a fan of the hardback format. Softback gaming books get dog-eared very quickly. I'm not sure about the new larger format 9th edition books though. They're a bit big to transport to games.


Yeah, like with roleplaying books, I definitely appreciate a book that will stay open at the page I want!
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




Going back to around 4th edition I used to love collecting codices, I used to love to read the lore inside of them, go over the pictures many many times, and also try to make battlelists on paper. This would mean I would collect codices to armies I wasn't that interested in collecting.

Now tho I feel with how much the codices cost and what insane access I have to free content online, it isn't worth buying them unless I absolutely need them.
   
Made in us
Pious Palatine




Every book should be spiral bound soft cover Change My Mind.


 
   
Made in us
Grisly Ghost Ark Driver






bat702 wrote:
Going back to around 4th edition I used to love collecting codices, I used to love to read the lore inside of them, go over the pictures many many times, and also try to make battlelists on paper. This would mean I would collect codices to armies I wasn't that interested in collecting.

Now tho I feel with how much the codices cost and what insane access I have to free content online, it isn't worth buying them unless I absolutely need them.
This. But for WHFB. 5th ed was the last time I considered WHFB codices affordable enough to buy ones for factions I did not play. Some were purchased for "recon" purposes; I had difficulty beating those armies, so I wanted to 'know thy enemy", but others were because I wanted the background fluff. But as bat702 points out, a codex or AoS Battletome now costs too much to indulge oneself like this. [Have bought older 40k and AoS codices on discount, as I wanted painting guides for Kill Team and Warcry. And the LGS had a still new 5th ed Eldar codex for $5 that I snapped up, even though I sold an unbuilt Ulthwe army a few years before. Still interested in Eldar, though not enough to build that 3rd ed. Ulthwe army that I owned for about 15 years.]

Kings of War: Abyssal Dwarves, Dwarves, Elves, Undead, Northern Alliance [WiP], Nightstalkers [WiP]
Dropzone Commander: PHR
Kill Team: Deathwatch AdMech Necron

 
   
Made in de
Contagious Dreadnought of Nurgle





 vict0988 wrote:
Sgt. Cortez wrote:
I really liked the maps in 8th. I still wonder if anyone made a program/ website where all the different maps from the 8th edition codizes are put together...

https://warhammer40000.com/?utm_source=Warhammer%20Community&utm_medium=Post&utm_campaign=GalacticCartographySighted10082020&utm_content=GalacticCartographySighted10082020


Well, I think they updated that since I saw it last time, but it still lacks the different planets placed in the Codizes. But thanks for the link
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran




I much prefer older codices. I do not want to read or flip through 5 pages for one unit with different weapon options, or read the profiles for common equipment (or special rules) over and over again. That's what the reference sheet in the back is for.

I liked having the lore for each unit, and artwork on their page. The lore was also better-written. The 5th ed. Lizardman book is fantastic.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/09/07 19:22:23


 
   
Made in ca
Commander of the Mysterious 2nd Legion





does WH plus have older codices avaliable? I'm suddenly curious as the fluff in the 7th and 8th codices are, IMHO straight up better so it'd be handy to have those digtally avaliable

Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





ERJAK wrote:
Every book should be spiral bound soft cover Change My Mind.


Spiral bound hard cover is better, it gives the book better damage resistance and also enough rigidity to support itself if you have to perch it on something. Best of both worlds.

   
Made in us
Inspiring SDF-1 Bridge Officer





Mississippi

ERJAK wrote:
Every book should be spiral bound soft cover Change My Mind.


Electronic PDF instead. I have hundreds of game systems and books on a single tablet that weighs less than one of these god-forsaken books.

It never ends well 
   
Made in pl
Fixture of Dakka




Would automaticly eliminate anyone from being able to play who either don't have a tablet, or who are not willing to take it on a trip to the store risking it being damaged or stolen, on public transport.

If you have to kill, then kill in the best manner. If you slaughter, then slaughter in the best manner. Let one of you sharpen his knife so his animal feels no pain. 
   
Made in de
Ork Admiral Kroozin Da Kosmos on Da Hulk






1. Everyone has a smartphone these days. The ones that don't are small minority who can just print their PDFs somewhere.
2. Every GW store has a terminal for ordering from their webstore, it should be trivial to make rules available on there.

7 Ork facts people always get wrong:
Ragnar did not win against Thrakka, but suffered two crushing defeats within a few days of each other.
A lasgun is powerful enough to sever an ork's appendage or head in a single, well aimed shot.
Orks meks have a better understanding of electrics and mechanics than most Tech Priests.
Orks do not think that purple makes them harder to see. They do think that camouflage does however, without knowing why.
Gharkull Blackfang did not even come close to killing the emperor.
Orks can be corrupted by chaos, but few of them have any interest in what chaos offers.
Orks do not have the power of believe. 
   
 
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