Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Im wondering if i can shoot through my own models if they are blocking my sight?. Or do i need to use a laser pen to see true line of sight?. Example, i have a Vechile ready to shoot, but there is another vechile blocking my way can i shoot through that?.

True LoS. If you're blocked, no shooting. If not, fire away.

And very few models block LOS. Rhino? There's nice hole under the rhino between tracks...

times were easier when common sense ruled the world. tlos should imply realism in the sense that in truth, no one can or would attempt to shoot through the gaps in the wheels of the tracks of a tank across a smoking cratered battlefield let alone in the vacuum of a laboratory. that does not stop people from pretending that the true in tlos implies something else, in order to game the system for their tabletop advantage.

in the past, it was not possible to shoot through your own units, or enemy units, in some cases without a leadership check ...

regardless of current rules, if anyone told me that they were drawing los through the tracks of a tank on the field, i would let them do that, then box my things and move to another table to watch a sensible game, or leave and get a burrito.

in the end, it is your game to play, your narrative to forge. if you feel that you can write a story that includes troops shooting through tank tracks, then write that story, rules or no rules...

 Sherrypie wrote:
True LoS. If you're blocked, no shooting. If not, fire away.

What kind of silly logic is that?

Afterall, the rules already allow you to shoot your right hand sponson out the left hand side of your own vehicle. Or shoot your forward facing Vindicator cannon out your arse. Don't see why an intervening vehicle (friend of foe) should interfere with a shot....

Of course the TRUE solution to the OPs problem is to simply trace LOS from their vehicles with comms antena.

Threads like this are always a good reminder of how truly atrocious the rules for 40k are.

 jeff white wrote:

regardless of current rules, if anyone told me that they were drawing los through the tracks of a tank on the field, i would let them do that, then box my things and move to another table to watch a sensible game, or leave and get a burrito.

Send complain to GW. And vote with your wallet. Only way it changes.

GW writes the rules. If you don't like those show it with wallet.

 Gregor Samsa wrote:
Threads like this are always a good reminder of how truly atrocious the rules for 40k are.

Remember when the rules were a giant terrifying thick book and you basically only consulted it when you got into an argument with your friend over how something should work?

Pepperidge farm remembers.

To answer the question from the OP:

If a friendly model really does 100% block sight from or to something, that thing cannot be targeted.

tneva82 wrote:
And very few models block LOS. Rhino? There's nice hole under the rhino between tracks...

In my experience, it's usually a combination of models in multiple layer that block LOS, rarely, if ever, just single model.

A rhino in front of a crater or barricade, for example, would block LOS as the terrain closes the gap underneath.

tneva82 wrote:

 jeff white wrote:

regardless of current rules, if anyone told me that they were drawing los through the tracks of a tank on the field, i would let them do that, then box my things and move to another table to watch a sensible game, or leave and get a burrito.

Send complain to GW. And vote with your wallet. Only way it changes.

GW writes the rules. If you don't like those show it with wallet.

Or don’t use their (current) rules…
Wallet aside.

A model can shoot through models in its own unit but not though models in other units.

Agreed. Models can see and shoot through their own unit.

TLOS as a default has existed since 2nd, so complaining now is a little late

Every edition has then refined exceptions to this. From the horrid area terrain and levels (for firing through close combat only) in 4th to the obscuring rule in 9th

The game is, after all, a game. It's not real world , it's an abstraction, and simplifying line of sight certainly helps avoid stupid situations like people classifying hills as area terrain so a skimmer can still shoot but not be shot...

While TLOS being able to shoot through any tiny crack you can find always seemed really dumb to me, there isn't really a way to replicate proper conditions on a tabletop anyway.

What I mean is, say this Rhino (to use previous examples) moves in between two units. Now some people say that this Rhino would block LOS and they shouldn't be able to shoot each other because that's "realistic". Then the next turn the Rhino moves away. The actual "realistic" thing that happened here, is that the Rhino just drove right in between them for a moment, but because this is a tabletop game it has to stop somewhere. So "realistically" did it actually provide a relevant LOS block for more than a second?

Of course, this then takes us down the rabbit whole or, well, what if I want it to stop there and provide cover for my advancing infantry. There are just so many variables, even in a simple situation like this, that it's never going to be "realistic" in every way. If someone wants to drawn LoS under a Rhino, whatever, I just assume it blazed right past, if not, whatever, I just assume it stopped. It doesn't really break immersion for me so long as I understand how my opponent sees the rules and they are consistent rather than trying to game each situation to their own advantage.

It's modeling for advantage to leave gaps in your vehicles for sight lines, right?

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
It's modeling for advantage to leave gaps in your vehicles for sight lines, right?

Not if the gaps are normally there.

 doctortom wrote:

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
It's modeling for advantage to leave gaps in your vehicles for sight lines, right?

Not if the gaps are normally there.

Even if it was intentional, would it even be considered an advantage since both players would be able to shoot through the gaps?

If you modify your model for the sole reason of affecting game rules, it's always modeling for advantage. The second you shoot through a gap you intentionally added to the model to shoot through, you're cheating.

Intent is everything.