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Made in us
Dakka Veteran





After getting mostly caught up on the lore, I'm pretty sure the Emperor's death will be covered in a future black library novel. It will be cool and mysterious with plenty of room for readers to draw their own conclusions, but not nearly as big of a deal as some people are making it out to be.

Here's how I would write the story:

Imperial Perspective

At the end of the Indomitus Crusade, early 42nd Millennium, Roboute Guilliman awakens from a terrible dream. He can't recall what it was but he is overcome by an overwhelming sense of sorrow, but also a sense of peace and purpose. He senses that he must return to Terra at once.

-Guilliman goes to Terra and demands to see the Emperor. He encounters some unusual resistance and has to beat down some custodes that try to stop him. (Obligatory action sequence). When he gets to the throne room, he realizes that the Emperor's body has been replaced by just an ordinary terminally ill person. He demands to know what is going on.

-An Inquisitor tells Guilliman that the Emperor died while he was traveling back to Terra. The Astronomican continues to function for some reason, so no one knows the truth, and the Inquisition plans to keep it that way. Guilliman summons the High Lords of Terra. He will now unveil the truth of the Emperor's death and will reveal what the Emperor told him when they last spoke.

-Guilliman explains to the High Lords of Terra that the Emperor has passed away but that there is no reason to fear his passing. The Emperor told Guilliman that he would die soon, and when he did, his spirit would go to a sacred place he had prepared for all immortal souls of the Emperor's loyal servants. The Emperor said that Guilliman and his successors would rule the Imperium as his stewards until his second coming. (He didn't say when that would happen of course, it could be the next day, it could be many more millenia in the future). At the Emperor's second coming, chaos would be destroyed forever.

-The High Lords are shocked. Some doubt that Guilliman is telling the truth. Even those that want to believe him don't think the Imperium could survive without the Emperor sitting on the Golden Throne. They desperately try to persuade Guilliman to go along with the big lie. Just pretend that the Emperor is still alive, and everything will be fine. But Guilliman resists the idea. He doesn't want the "new Imperium" to be founded on a lie.

Meanwhile, various Inquisition factions prepare to attack Guilliman if he doesn't go along with the lie, the Thorians also have their own plans..(I'm not sure what Guilliman would do but I like thinking about him grappling with this moral dilemma. so I'll stop here).

-Chaos Perspective

The death of the Emperor echoes across the warp. But instead of being a moment of joy, it quickly becomes a moment of dread. The Emperor's essence is felt everywhere in the warp now, and it is causing all the demons mild pain and irritation. Like a never ending irritant in the warp. But the Emperor can't be found anywhere. He is simultaneously everywhere and nowhere now. The chaos gods can feel the power of the warp ebbing ever so slightly. They feel the great rifts starting to close, ever so slowly. And they feel final victory slipping away.

Time is no longer on the side of Chaos and a new prophecy arises. The Emperor's second coming will herald the death of ONE chaos god. But which one?

The chaos gods quickly realize two things.

1. To stop the prophecy, they must kill Guilliman and destroy the Imperium before the Emperor returns.
2. If they can't stop the prophecy, make sure they don't end up as the one god that gets destroyed.

Nearly all of this is revealed to Abbadon, and he is faced with his own choice.

1. Mount a desperate attack to kill Guilliman before its too late?
2. Retreat to the Eye of Terror, carefully ponder a new master plan over a few centuries, and send his rivals and puppets to mount desperate attacks? (This one is easier. We all know which one he'll choose).


"Iz got a plan. We line up. Yell Waaagh, den krump them in the face. Den when we're done, we might yell Waagh one more time." Warboss Gutstompa 
   
Made in hk
Longtime Dakkanaut





You forget that GW is a company that is profit driven ....

Emperor's death will only be done to release a brand new revamped 40k universe with a new plastic range for everything.

Emperor will ascend to become the new imperium god. The fluff will be made to accomodate new plastic models for everything imperium to justify this.

New space marines version 3.0.

New Ascended Space Marines models replacing everything primaris and first born
New Avatar of the Emperor
Angel Primarchs
   
Made in ca
Gargantuan Gargant






They're not going to kill the Emperor, its the golden goose of the setting and would cause a fundamental shift that would alter the "1 min before midnight" kind of atmosphere that they've established for the last 20+ years. The Emperor dying or coming back in any sense would likely nuke Terra in some way thanks to the deadman's switch that's been revealed in the HH series, and the loss of the Astronomicon would be the death knell for the Imperium as a whole. GW is very risk averse when it comes to 40k as a setting. Primaris were shoehorned into the fluff because they were afraid of squatting regular marines altogether, so they have this weird half-way point where there's still firstborn, but they're undeniably going to be transitioned out over time, likely over the course of 3 editions or so.
   
Made in fi
Locked in the Tower of Amareo





 Dekskull wrote:
After getting mostly caught up on the lore, I'm pretty sure the Emperor's death will be covered in a future black library novel. It will be cool and mysterious with plenty of room for readers to draw their own conclusions, but not nearly as big of a deal as some people are making it out to be.

Here's how I would write the story:


Only way it wouldn't be big deal is if GW would break their own fluff big time. For starters death of emperor=no more astronomicon and warp has been 10k years so turmulent it would kill off warp travel for humans. Unlikely chaos gods would calm the warp down conveniently...

That would be huge as every planet would in essence be own imperium with no contact with other planets. No reinforcements coming when invasion comes. No trade. Earth? Starves to death. Literally. Etc etc etc

2024 painted/bought: 109/109 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka




NE Ohio, USA

Ok, you told me how YOU would kill the Emporer.

I'm still waiting to hear you tell me how GW would do it.

Or maybe you should retitle your post & move it to wherever fanfic goes.
   
Made in se
Growlin' Guntrukk Driver with Killacannon





Sweden

I really liked your ideas for the story. However if chaos was destroyed would the warp still exist? If not the imperium would devolve into isolated solar systems. Certain worlds with unbalanced economics would probably starve and become cannibals, like hive worlds and possibly forge worlds.

Would warp travel become unrestrained if deamons died out? And what would that lead to? More and bigger planetary invasion fleets? Huge waves of refugee ships from unwinnable warzones?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
ccs wrote:
Ok, you told me how YOU would kill the Emporer.

I'm still waiting to hear you tell me how GW would do it.

Or maybe you should retitle your post & move it to wherever fanfic goes.


Yeah I dont mind fanfic considering what gak gw is churning out nowadays.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/09/17 05:43:40


Brutal, but kunning!  
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





The death of the Emperor is something that GW will forever keep in their back pocket in case they have to 'Age of Sigmar' 40k.

We'll see if they ever do it. I see the typical doubt in the thread already, but GW's a company, and they'll do it if it means shaking off the old beards that aren't spending money and bringing in fresh blood that will.
   
Made in no
Willing Inquisitorial Excruciator






I feel like your version is far to Guilliman centric. Ever read up on the star child fluff? Factions within the Imperium that wants to kill the Emperor has been a thing since 3ed. The idea is kind of similar to yours. Simplified they thought that the Emperor would be reborn as a 5th chaos god. Also the part about the Emperor being replaced doesn’t really work. The golden throne turned Malcador to dust and he was arguably the second most powerfull psyker in the Imperium. A regular human would meet the same fate instantly.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/09/17 07:17:19


His pattern of returning alive after being declared dead occurred often enough during Cain's career that the Munitorum made a special ruling that Ciaphas Cain is to never be considered dead, despite evidence to the contrary. 
   
Made in us
Gore-Soaked Lunatic Witchhunter







 Nerak wrote:
I feel like your version is far to Guilliman centric...


This isn't how it should be done, it's how would GW do it. I think GW would definitely be far too Guilliman-centric.

Balanced Game: Noun. A game in which all options and choices are worth using.
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Made in no
Willing Inquisitorial Excruciator






 AnomanderRake wrote:
 Nerak wrote:
I feel like your version is far to Guilliman centric...


This isn't how it should be done, it's how would GW do it. I think GW would definitely be far too Guilliman-centric.

A fair point. Though I disagree that this is how GW would be likely to do it as a whole. Regardless Guilliman would certainly be at the center of it.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/09/17 08:20:23


His pattern of returning alive after being declared dead occurred often enough during Cain's career that the Munitorum made a special ruling that Ciaphas Cain is to never be considered dead, despite evidence to the contrary. 
   
Made in us
Buttons Should Be Brass, Not Gold!






Didn't Dan Abnett reveal in a recent interview that the death of the Emperor would result in a heat death and destruction of the known universe?

If so, I consider it very improbable that big E will ever be killed

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/09/17 08:26:39


 
   
Made in hk
Longtime Dakkanaut





Agree to disagree. If GW ever did something to kill off the Emperor. They would do an age of Sigmar revamp on him. So, like what I said, Emperor would become a true god. Space marines will be reborn. All his loyalist primarchs will be reborn as angels.

Why focus on just Gulliman when you can now sell models of several loyalist primarchs as Angels primarchs including the new Angel primarch Gulliman as well ? Plus release every thing space marines range as the new ascended space marine range with better stats, new plastic models with angel wings. This is GW here...

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/09/17 08:32:11


 
   
Made in gb
Did Fulgrim Just Behead Ferrus?






Not to parrot what has already been said but the Emperor is what holds back the Warp from coming through the Terran Webway. There's also a WMD strapped to the Throne that will detonate if the Emperor dies. The resulting Warp Storm would engulf much of Sol and destroy the cradle of humanity. If the Emperor dies, humanity dies.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/09/17 09:45:17


 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




 Gert wrote:
Not to parrot what has already been said but the Emperor is what holds back the Warp from coming through the Terran Webway. There's also a WMD strapped to the Throne that will detonate if the Emperor dies. The resulting Warp Storm would engulf much of Sol and destroy the cradle of humanity. If the Emperor dies, humanity dies.


"Chaos gods decide to hand wave away the storm, Ad Mech in alliance with Dark Eldar disabled the WMD. The Imperium goes on."

I realise its unsatisfactory - but if GW decide to change the setting they can change the setting.
   
Made in nz
Trigger-Happy Baal Predator Pilot



New Zealand

The Chaos gods didn't wave away the Eye of Terror. They used a convoluted scheme to make it a large rift across the galaxy.

Slaanesh created the Eye of Terror when he was born. If the Emperor died and attained godhood (if he isn't already) there would be an Eye of Terra centred on Earth. Say goodbye to Earth and Mars, and probably Necromunda and Armageddon too. It would be the human version of the Eldar fall.

The Emperor dying is a terrible idea. If he dies he either goes out in a bang, decimating the Imperium, or goes out with a whimper, which leaves the status quo. Either result many fans will hate it (worse than Primaris).
   
Made in gb
Insect-Infested Nurgle Chaos Lord






TL;DR.

No, they won’t. They’re not that brain dead…


Games Workshop Delenda Est.

Users on ignore- 53.

If you break apart my or anyone else's posts line by line I will not read them. 
   
Made in gb
Did Fulgrim Just Behead Ferrus?






Tyel wrote:
"Chaos gods decide to hand wave away the storm, Ad Mech in alliance with Dark Eldar disabled the WMD. The Imperium goes on."

Why would the Pantheon "hand wave away" their victory over the Anathema? If Terra gets yeeted into the Warp because their nemesis has exploded into a reality wound then the pantheon has won against their primary enemy. They can finally get back to playing the Great Game with no interruptions.
Which Druhkari are allying with Monkeigh to stop the destruction of the Monkeigh base of power? The Imperium would be thrown into disarray, perfect pickings for the raiding fleets of Commoragh.

I realise its unsatisfactory - but if GW decide to change the setting they can change the setting.

Yeah GW can change the setting but that's not even close to bad, it's just flat-out brainless. Whether you hate Primaris or not they can still be explained as the next step in the Astartes process just like Thunder Warriors and the Legions.
Hate new lore if you want, that's fine but at least there is always some form of logic to most of the big 40k events.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/09/17 16:12:08


 
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut




They may well kill him off and reincarnate him as a black woman just for the lulz and bants and to give a justification for female space marines......

And to make Arch's head implode......

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/09/17 16:31:04


 
   
Made in ca
Regular Dakkanaut





My understanding of the lore was that the story of the emperor and the golden throne was semi-mythological and it was uncertain/heavily guarded secret whether or not the emperor is still even alive/dead and that the story of the throne and the emperor holding back the warp is somewhat of a “noble lie” designed to ensure stability and faith in an otherwise collapsed and apocalyptic political system.

But I haven’t actually closely read GW lore in a decade or so because it’s lost its way.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/09/17 16:28:31


 
   
Made in gb
Did Fulgrim Just Behead Ferrus?






It depends on how you define death I suppose. The Emperor's body is rotted and ruined but his soul is very much still alive. It's like how some Buddhists believe that when you go into a meditative state your body might die but your consciousness can still achieve enlightenment. So the physical Emperor is dead but the soul part isn't. He can't interact with the physical world except by expending huge amounts of power which brings him closer to a true death.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/09/17 16:38:33


 
   
Made in es
Inquisitorial Keeper of the Xenobanks






your mind

Interesting thread. I understand Samsa’s point. The Emperor is a guiding light in the grim darkness in a metaphorical sense for most of humanity as they are not space travellers. For actual navigators, it could also be common faith in a hive mind destiny of humanity sense with the common idea of the emperor fuelling the visions… or it could be this corpse on a chair on Earth. It is the faith that does the work, by my read. Like orks, but wordier…

   
Made in es
Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain




Vigo. Spain.

The more time pases, the more is clear the Emperor was not the master mind we always tought but actually the muscle for Malcador's Brains. And I like that. He's not really perfect in any shape or form and that makes him a more compelling character even if in 40k hes always been a cadaver in a throne with questionable quasidivine powers.

 Crimson Devil wrote:

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ERJAK wrote:
Forcing a 40k player to keep playing 7th is basically a hate crime.

 
   
Made in au
Slaanesh Chosen Marine Riding a Fiend




Australia

Zero chance they'll ever kill the Emperor.

The Circle of Iniquity
The Fourth Seal
 
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran





If they kill the Emperor, I think it will be in the last Siege of Terra book as a "he was dead in 40k this whole time! Ollanius/Malcador/someone else was on the throne this entire time!"
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran





So here's my rationale for why I think it's going like this. Forget all the "lore" with the Eldar gods and such, what does the Emperor represent?

The Emperor represents God and faith, but also represents how extreme faith/zealousness can be a really bad thing. Just like Jesus Christ, some people think the Emperor is God, others think he was just a man. It's a mystery and no one can definitely "win" the argument either in the 41st millennium or now.

Now let's for sake of argument say that the Emperor is something like the God people think of now, or a god among many gods but a special god for humanity.

Does God want to be micromanaging everything, or does he prefer to let people make their own choices, while he works from behind the scenes, inspiring people and such?

His preference has always been to work from behind the scenes. The Emperor made an exception to his usual rule because he needed to intervene directly to save humanity from extinction. But his plan was always to go "back" to normal and let humanity govern itself once the situation had stabilized.

Guilliman represents that stability. He is the person the Emperor is preparing to pass the torch off to, so he can go back to the warp or whatever and not be physically present as a physical body in the universe. The Emperor realizes that his presence in the universe is actually holding humanity back. He's wanted to leave for some time now. But he had to wait until someone came along that could take over and not screw everything up.

BTW: You could also make all these same arguments from the perspective of the Emperor as just a super smart man, not divine at all. Better to die and leave the Imperium to another smart guy that can reform humanity than to preserve the status quo where humanity has become ultra xenophobic, fearful and fanatically overzealous.

So that's where I think it's going. GW is trying to move the setting so that the Imperium becomes more good. It becomes more reformed, more rationale, and less fanatical.

To do that, they kill the Emperor, leave it mysterious and hopeful, and let everyone know that it's all up to Guilliman now...

"Iz got a plan. We line up. Yell Waaagh, den krump them in the face. Den when we're done, we might yell Waagh one more time." Warboss Gutstompa 
   
Made in ca
Regular Dakkanaut



Canada

 Dekskull wrote:

BTW: You could also make all these same arguments from the perspective of the Emperor as just a super smart man, not divine at all. Better to die and leave the Imperium to another smart guy that can reform humanity than to preserve the status quo where humanity has become ultra xenophobic, fearful and fanatically overzealous.

So that's where I think it's going. GW is trying to move the setting so that the Imperium becomes more good. It becomes more reformed, more rationale, and less fanatical.

To do that, they kill the Emperor, leave it mysterious and hopeful, and let everyone know that it's all up to Guilliman now...


Sounds boring.

But neutering the setting to make it more appealing to the mainstream is destiny, especially when it's owned by a corporate brand that wants to protect it's image. So who knows.

This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2021/09/18 11:31:37


Old World Prediction: The Empire will have stupid Clockwork Paragon Warsuits and Mecha Horses 
   
Made in es
Inquisitorial Keeper of the Xenobanks






your mind

So sad, but so true. Excellent analysis Dekskull. Exalted. Strong 5th post for sure!

   
Made in us
Confessor Of Sins





Tacoma, WA, USA

I agree on the solid analysis. But it will never happen. Why?
It is the 41st Millennium. For more than a hundred centuries The Emperor has sat immobile on the Golden Throne of Earth. He is the Master of Mankind by the will of the gods, and master of a million worlds by the might of his inexhaustible armies. He is a rotting carcass writhing invisibly with power from the Dark Age of Technology. He is the Carrion Lord of the Imperium for whom a thousand souls are sacrificed every day, so that he may never truly die.

Yet even in his deathless state, the Emperor continues his eternal vigilance. Mighty battlefleets cross the daemon-infested miasma of the Warp, the only route between distant stars, their way lit by the Astronomican, the psychic manifestation of the Emperor's will. Vast armies give battle in his name on uncounted worlds. Greatest amongst his soldiers are the Adeptus Astartes, the Space Marines, bio-engineered super-warriors. Their comrades in arms are legion: the Imperial Guard and countless planetary defence forces, the ever vigilant Inquisition and the tech-priests of the Adeptus Mechanicus to name only a few. But for all their multitudes, they are barely enough to hold off the ever-present threat from aliens, heretics, mutants - and worse.

To be a man in such times is to be one amongst untold billions. It is to live in the cruelest and most bloody regime imaginable. These are the tales of those times. Forget the power of technology and science, for so much has been forgotten, never to be re-learned. Forget the promise of progress and understanding, for in the grim dark future there is only war. There is no peace amongst the stars, only an eternity of carnage and slaughter, and the laughter of thirsting gods.
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut





Nah. Look at GW's progression of the story in the last 30+ years. The Eye of Terror got bigger and 3 Primarchs are on the scene.

In 30 years time, we may see another 2 Primarchs at best - and Eldar will still be using the same sculpts.

Also the Space Marine range will be 10 times the size it is now and squat marines will become their namesake
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut





Nah this won’t happen for a long time. They have turned half the imperium dark and not really done anything with that yet. If they did do an AoS on 40K I suppose they could say the the emperor died and warp travel became impossible for humans but they became freinds out of necessity with the eldar and got the use of the web way. But they don’t have craft worlds so now the setting is humanity only lives successfully on planets with a web way entrance so they can get back up when nids and necrons show up.

Also, phew, it turns out ultramar, which would still be a nice little empire but the goal of trillions of human refugees, had a web gate hidden all along and oh so does Baal and there’s even one on the rock!!! Lucky ducky.

And the New Men come on the scene, all this travelling through the web way means their hiding place has been discovered but they are because this is the opportunity homo novus needs to wipe out homo sapient and take their place.

Mean while the rest of the galaxy is the play ground of chaos and xenos. A huge waaaaaaaggghh has no resistance and create a vast empire that never stops moving looking for a decent fight.

But the amount of living would to fuel the 4 choas gods begins to dwindle and so does their power. Some brave (human) souls realise that warp travel is fairly safe now after all but do not want a return to the imperial ways and secretly move around on fleets helping the tau setup new spheres to start expansion into other parts of the galaxy.

All the fighting and killing creates a dead zone with not enough biomass for the nids to continue through space so they stop and set up camp in a region of space containing a planet once called terra, but what are they doing?

Necron tombworlds awaken to little or no opposition and reclaim their empire. Although they still haven’t found away to transmute back into flesh they have discovered a new form in an old human manufacturing device, why is such a sophisticated thing ironically referred to as a man of iron when it is so much more.

Oh and squats are back, yay!

And it turn out the the emperor was the manifestation of the the chaos god malal all along.
   
 
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