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Made in gb
Automated Rubric Marine of Tzeentch





UK

Does anyone run multiple detachments of different factions in 9th edition?

The CP cost doesn't put me off, but losing faction abilities does.

[1,800] Chaos Knights | [1,250] Thousand Sons | [1,000] Grey Knights | 40K editions: RT, 8, 9, 10 | https://www.flickr.com/photos/dreadblade/  
   
Made in de
Longtime Dakkanaut



Bamberg / Erlangen

I haven't done it yet, but I'm definitely going to do so once I had some games with my Guard.

I'm going to partner them up with Blood Angels. Most of the time I'm staying one more round in tactical doctrine anyway and I never felt the +1A in the first melee combat round as being that relevant.

On the other side, Guard needs something to hold objectives and I dislike Ogryn models.

   
Made in ca
Longtime Dakkanaut





I will be- lots of Inquisition + Chamber Militant coming.

Also like Null Maiden Vanguards.
   
Made in gb
Automated Rubric Marine of Tzeentch





UK

I should say, I'm talking wider than just SM losing combat doctrines. Also GK losing tides of the warp, TS losing cabalistic rituals etc.

[1,800] Chaos Knights | [1,250] Thousand Sons | [1,000] Grey Knights | 40K editions: RT, 8, 9, 10 | https://www.flickr.com/photos/dreadblade/  
   
Made in ca
Longtime Dakkanaut





Yeah- Sisters lose MD I think, which is crazy.

I hope that a) they put out an Imperial Agents dex and b) they add a rule so that Inquisition detachments don't break the purity rules of their Chambers Militant (at the very least).
   
Made in gb
Automated Rubric Marine of Tzeentch





UK

I was hoping to be able to take a Chaos Knight with my TS...

[1,800] Chaos Knights | [1,250] Thousand Sons | [1,000] Grey Knights | 40K editions: RT, 8, 9, 10 | https://www.flickr.com/photos/dreadblade/  
   
Made in us
Loyal Necron Lychguard





For Thousand Sons specifically I think if you want to soup you want to dip KSons and put the majority of your points in the other faction. Cabal Points are most useful when you get a ton of them, if your sorcerers are just Ahriman and an SOT squad then it's no major loss.
   
Made in gb
Automated Rubric Marine of Tzeentch





UK

 Arachnofiend wrote:
For Thousand Sons specifically I think if you want to soup you want to dip KSons and put the majority of your points in the other faction. Cabal Points are most useful when you get a ton of them, if your sorcerers are just Ahriman and an SOT squad then it's no major loss.


That's not a bad idea - I hadn't thought about it the other way round. Although from a fluff point of view, taking a knight to support a TS detachment makes more sense.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/09/18 06:28:16


[1,800] Chaos Knights | [1,250] Thousand Sons | [1,000] Grey Knights | 40K editions: RT, 8, 9, 10 | https://www.flickr.com/photos/dreadblade/  
   
Made in us
Nasty Nob




Crescent City Fl..

a_typical_hero wrote:
I haven't done it yet, but I'm definitely going to do so once I had some games with my Guard.

I'm going to partner them up with Blood Angels. Most of the time I'm staying one more round in tactical doctrine anyway and I never felt the +1A in the first melee combat round as being that relevant.

On the other side, Guard needs something to hold objectives and I dislike Ogryn models.


I'm planning to soup in a similar way. I guess it's a question of is the extras soup detachment worth the cp costs during the game. I don't know if it is or not yet. I still want to try it.

Sigh, Yet another doomed attempt by man to bridge the gap between the material and spiritual worlds 
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran





Thinking about souping Armiger Warglaves into my Guard list in place of Guard Vehicles. Don't know yet; codex is coming eventually, it's a huge CP investment, and I think you can't take a Detachment of just Armigers. Could be mistaken though.
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka




NE Ohio, USA

There's two people in our current Crusade doing Imperial soups.
One is BA + Armigar Knights.
The other is a Deathwatch/GK mix. ( I honestly think this is out of necessity as I doubt he has enough of either to do 75-100pl here in the late stages of this Crusade.)
   
Made in gb
Automated Rubric Marine of Tzeentch





UK

Arcanis161 wrote:
Thinking about souping Armiger Warglaves into my Guard list in place of Guard Vehicles. Don't know yet; codex is coming eventually, it's a huge CP investment, and I think you can't take a Detachment of just Armigers. Could be mistaken though.


If it's the same as Chaos Knights, you can take a super-heavy auxiliary detatchment for 3CP with up to three as a vehicle squadron in the single LoW slot.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2021/09/18 06:17:37


[1,800] Chaos Knights | [1,250] Thousand Sons | [1,000] Grey Knights | 40K editions: RT, 8, 9, 10 | https://www.flickr.com/photos/dreadblade/  
   
Made in bh
Longtime Dakkanaut





There are plenty of soup players. Some of those soups are also competing with the likes of DE and Admech lists and you see them regularly taking the top ranks in events.

So yes, losing faction bonuses is perfectly fine.
   
Made in it
Waaagh! Ork Warboss




Italy

I can't soup as all the armies that I currently have or had in the past belong to different major factions, but I never felt the desire to soup.

Losing faction abilities is the tradeoff you get when you add units from other codexes and that makes sense. Do you want psykers in an army that don't have them? Do you want to add cheap bodies to an army that only has expensive stuff? Or melee beasticks in an army that doesn't have any good ones, or maybe just better units than those available? Fine, you lose some rules then.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/09/18 09:28:35


 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut





When you say faction abilities are lost, if I added a chaos knights to my creations of bile army does that mean I lose the creations of bile key word and the +1m +1s bonus??
   
Made in us
Nasty Nob




Crescent City Fl..

 Blackie wrote:
I can't soup as all the armies that I currently have or had in the past belong to different major factions, but I never felt the desire to soup.

Losing faction abilities is the tradeoff you get when you add units from other codexes and that makes sense. Do you want psykers in an army that don't have them? Do you want to add cheap bodies to an army that only has expensive stuff? Or melee beasticks in an army that doesn't have any good ones, or maybe just better units than those available? Fine, you lose some rules then.


That's part of what I've been thinking about and for me I don't know if the loss of faction abilities would even be a problem given the way I want to play. I want to bring some IG some Primaris BA's and a Castilian Knight each filling a gap the other would have. I kinda feel this would simplify the game for me in a way. I miss the days of moving models and rolling dice to decide a game. It feels like strats and extra abilities just confuse me, too many things choices to think about at any given time. Sure I'll have to keep up with the data sheets but that's not where I am struggling.
This three detachment thing I want to play is something I've been thinking about for a few years and seemed mostly obvious to play prior to 9th. Granted I just play with friends and this is non-competitive on my end.

Sigh, Yet another doomed attempt by man to bridge the gap between the material and spiritual worlds 
   
Made in gb
Automated Rubric Marine of Tzeentch





UK

mrFickle wrote:
When you say faction abilities are lost, if I added a chaos knights to my creations of bile army does that mean I lose the creations of bile key word and the +1m +1s bonus??


It depends how your faction abilities are worded. For example, TS cabalistic rituals rules start with "If every unit from your army has the Thousand Sons keyword...", which obviously it won't if you soup in a chaos knight. SM combat doctrines and GK tides of the warp are worded similarly.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/09/18 14:16:55


[1,800] Chaos Knights | [1,250] Thousand Sons | [1,000] Grey Knights | 40K editions: RT, 8, 9, 10 | https://www.flickr.com/photos/dreadblade/  
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut





 dreadblade wrote:
mrFickle wrote:
When you say faction abilities are lost, if I added a chaos knights to my creations of bile army does that mean I lose the creations of bile key word and the +1m +1s bonus??


It depends how your faction abilities are worded. For example, TS cabalistic rituals rules start with "If every unit from your army has the Thousand Sons keyword...", which obviously it won't if you soup in a chaos knight. SM combat doctrines and GK tides of the warp are worded similarly.


It’s worded, if your army is battle forged then they get the following legion trait…
   
Made in bh
Longtime Dakkanaut





mrFickle wrote:
 dreadblade wrote:
mrFickle wrote:
When you say faction abilities are lost, if I added a chaos knights to my creations of bile army does that mean I lose the creations of bile key word and the +1m +1s bonus??


It depends how your faction abilities are worded. For example, TS cabalistic rituals rules start with "If every unit from your army has the Thousand Sons keyword...", which obviously it won't if you soup in a chaos knight. SM combat doctrines and GK tides of the warp are worded similarly.


It’s worded, if your army is battle forged then they get the following legion trait…


Then it works when you soup.
A soup is still a battle forged army.
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka




NE Ohio, USA

mrFickle wrote:
 dreadblade wrote:
mrFickle wrote:
When you say faction abilities are lost, if I added a chaos knights to my creations of bile army does that mean I lose the creations of bile key word and the +1m +1s bonus??


It depends how your faction abilities are worded. For example, TS cabalistic rituals rules start with "If every unit from your army has the Thousand Sons keyword...", which obviously it won't if you soup in a chaos knight. SM combat doctrines and GK tides of the warp are worded similarly.


It’s worded, if your army is battle forged then they get the following legion trait…


Then yeah, you'd lose them. At least in matched play.. Because your force won't be battlefirged as you can't use the Chaos keyword.
   
Made in us
Humming Great Unclean One of Nurgle





In My Lab

ccs wrote:
mrFickle wrote:
 dreadblade wrote:
mrFickle wrote:
When you say faction abilities are lost, if I added a chaos knights to my creations of bile army does that mean I lose the creations of bile key word and the +1m +1s bonus??


It depends how your faction abilities are worded. For example, TS cabalistic rituals rules start with "If every unit from your army has the Thousand Sons keyword...", which obviously it won't if you soup in a chaos knight. SM combat doctrines and GK tides of the warp are worded similarly.


It’s worded, if your army is battle forged then they get the following legion trait…


Then yeah, you'd lose them. At least in matched play.. Because your force won't be battlefirged as you can't use the Chaos keyword.
Your unifying ARMY keyword can be Chaos.

It just can’t be the only one in your DETACHMENT.

Clocks for the clockmaker! Cogs for the cog throne! 
   
Made in gb
Automated Rubric Marine of Tzeentch





UK

That's right, you can soup Chaos detachments, but it costs CP and you generally lose faction abilities. It just depends if that's too big a price to pay.

[1,800] Chaos Knights | [1,250] Thousand Sons | [1,000] Grey Knights | 40K editions: RT, 8, 9, 10 | https://www.flickr.com/photos/dreadblade/  
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut





 dreadblade wrote:
That's right, you can soup Chaos detachments, but it costs CP and you generally lose faction abilities. It just depends if that's too big a price to pay.


I’m confused as I’ve had responses that both confirm and deny I would lose my faction ability. How do you know if you do or don’t?
   
Made in us
Humming Great Unclean One of Nurgle





In My Lab

mrFickle wrote:
 dreadblade wrote:
That's right, you can soup Chaos detachments, but it costs CP and you generally lose faction abilities. It just depends if that's too big a price to pay.


I’m confused as I’ve had responses that both confirm and deny I would lose my faction ability. How do you know if you do or don’t?
You lose superfaction abilities-which is anything that requires your entire ARMY to be X.

You do not lose basic faction abilities, that require your entire DETACHMENT to be X.

Clocks for the clockmaker! Cogs for the cog throne! 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut





I have just read that a battle forged army is where your army is all on one detachment. To soup you need multiple detachments right? So if loose the creations of bile ability
   
Made in us
Humming Great Unclean One of Nurgle





In My Lab

mrFickle wrote:
I have just read that a battle forged army is where your army is all on one detachment. To soup you need multiple detachments right? So if loose the creations of bile ability
No. Your entire army has to be in detachments, but you can have up to three in a 2,000 point list.

Clocks for the clockmaker! Cogs for the cog throne! 
   
Made in us
Enigmatic Chaos Sorcerer




The dark hollows of Kentucky

1 CSM detachment for Creations of Bile + 1 Super Heavy Auxiliary (if you only want 1 Knight) or 1 Super Heavy Detachment (if you want several Knights) for Chaos Knights. Done.
   
Made in gb
Automated Rubric Marine of Tzeentch





UK

 JNAProductions wrote:
mrFickle wrote:
 dreadblade wrote:
That's right, you can soup Chaos detachments, but it costs CP and you generally lose faction abilities. It just depends if that's too big a price to pay.


I’m confused as I’ve had responses that both confirm and deny I would lose my faction ability. How do you know if you do or don’t?
You lose superfaction abilities-which is anything that requires your entire ARMY to be X.

You do not lose basic faction abilities, that require your entire DETACHMENT to be X.


This. For SM, GK and TS there are specific faction abilities that you lose (I listed them above). You'll need to read the rules in your codex to know which ones your faction would lose.

[1,800] Chaos Knights | [1,250] Thousand Sons | [1,000] Grey Knights | 40K editions: RT, 8, 9, 10 | https://www.flickr.com/photos/dreadblade/  
   
 
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