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Made in us
Calculating Commissar




pontiac, michigan; usa

I know this sounds a bit strange but i have dark eldar army and sorta want admech but i have some friends with lower tier factions as their main armies and i'd rather give them a fair shot rather than to trample them into the dirt. One of them in particular with Imperial Guard is getting so frustrated i don't think he wants to play much anymore.

So the armies that interest me most are Custodes, Harlequins, Dark Eldar, AdMech and GSC. I hear GSC is really low tier and Dark Eldar and Admech are top tier and i've heard both cost a lot of money. Harlequins and Custodes could be fun but their unit lists are really, really small.

Anyway the main armies i'd rather not play are space marines and their sub-factions. Once upon a time dark angels and blood angels seemed kinda cool but i'm not feeling it with em. I also want to stay away from Knight armies.

I might consider necrons and maybe even orks but nids aren't my thing. If i did Craftworld Eldar or Tau i'd probably go somewhat unconventional. Sisters might be an option for me but i'm not sure. I've already had Imperial Guard as my first 40k army so they might be ok if i use a different army load-out but Guard vs Guard sounds kinda boring and i'd hate to have to buy back most of the stuff i sold off already. Not to mention Guardsmen infantry aren't exactly cheap in cost of money per point.

Anyway any help you guys have would be appreciated. It's probably about time i started a new army anyway since i'm feeling a bit fatigued by playing dark eldar since 7th. At least they don't suck anymore....at least for now.


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Made in bh
Longtime Dakkanaut





Go with Necrons.
They are quite cheap thanks to the packs, and are a solid mid tier with a lot of different builds available.
You will probably have some issues winning GTs with them (still possible though), but it doesn't look like that's your intent.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/09/20 03:56:06


 
   
Made in us
Arch Magos w/ 4 Meg of RAM






Mira Mesa

Of the armies you're interested in, I'd probably recommend Custodes. AdMech are extremely strong, but extremely complicated to play. Harlies are tough to play, but they're strong if you put in the practice. GSC are also complicated to play, but don't have the muscle to back it up. Custodes are a higher mid tier army, and are somewhat easier to play and paint.

However, I'd recommend you read up on some lore or look at some paint schemes to get inspired. It's still an army you're going to invest in, so you don't want something you'll get bored of.

I was in a similar situation and got some Craftworld Eldar. I'd always wanted an Iyanden army since I was a teen, so it's nice to have a small 1k point force in my back pocket. It looks good on the shelf too because I cared about painting and modelling it well.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/09/20 04:18:22


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Made in us
Loyal Necron Lychguard





Necrons for sure. They're mid-tier now and will remain mid-tier for the rest of the edition since they already got their codex and a big launch, the chances of a major power spike are pretty much nothing.
   
Made in us
Calculating Commissar




pontiac, michigan; usa

How well do these armies stack up against craftworld eldar or imperial guard. I'm a little worried I'd crush them into the ground.

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Made in us
Arch Magos w/ 4 Meg of RAM






Mira Mesa

I mean, Imperial Guard are down there with GSC as one of the worst armies, and pure Craftworld Eldar is there too except in the hands of an extremely skilled player. You shouldn't be asking for a mid tier army to be on even ground with them. So yeah, I'd say GSC would be competitive with them.

But here's another solution: play with points handicap. Seriously. You have to accept the game isn't properly balanced. Then give them 10-20% more point limit. Keep increasing it until the matches become competitive again. You'll have a lot more fun that way.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/09/20 05:44:20


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Made in it
Waaagh! Ork Warboss




Italy

Orks without scratch building and conversions are extremely expensive, take that into account.

Necrons can be a great deal if you manage to get Indomitus halves for cheap. As others said they're solid mid tiers but they're also pretty straightforward and easy to play.

 
   
Made in cy
Towering Hierophant Bio-Titan






It's looking likely that Custodes & GSC will be the last two codexes released this year, so keep in mind that they could both change substantially before you've put together a playable list. I wouldn't rule out at least one of them ending up as strong as AdMech, at least for a little while.

   
Made in de
Ladies Love the Vibro-Cannon Operator






Hamburg

 flamingkillamajig wrote:
How well do these armies stack up against craftworld eldar or imperial guard. I'm a little worried I'd crush them into the ground.

Well, I'd rate CW and IG/AM when they have received a 9th ed codex not before.

Former moderator 40kOnline

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Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut




Mid tier?

i'd agree with Necrons certainly, would also suggest Tyranids but they haven't had their book yet and with with Gw's past history of widly varying quality of army books for the bugs (5th and 6th ed l'm looking at you!!!) I find it hard to recommend them without seeing the codex first.

If the GSC book does drop this year I'm hoping for 2 things..

1. They don't rework the blip system too much as its the thing that really makes them a unique army to play

2. Please for the love of the four armed emperor stop nerfing aberrants!!!

Such a cool, sinister and fun army currently ruined by a lot of nonsensical points changes as a direct result of them being extremely unbalanced when they reappeared in 7th after years relegated to background only.
   
Made in us
Ancient Venerable Dark Angels Dreadnought





Sounds like Necrons are the best bet. Bonus is that you can get their kits cheap too.
   
Made in de
Longtime Dakkanaut



Bamberg / Erlangen

I want to add that it not only depends on the faction you are playing, but on your list as well.

Dhrukari lose alot of power if you reduce the amount of transports in your list. That struggling IG army over there looks a lot more frightening if you have to take 1-2 guaranteed turns of shooting with your T3 6++ dudes and dudettes.

   
Made in us
Nurgle Chosen Marine on a Palanquin





Livermore, Ca

For Casual go Tau or Deathguard.

(Deathguard with actual plaguemarines and rhino's too).

I recently ran an almost all infantry Tau list. 30 kroot, boatloads of firewarriors, pathfinders ... 1 crisis suit, 1 skyray... oh yeah and kroot hounds and vespids... fun but frustrating to lose half your models in a game.

   
Made in us
Shadowy Grot Kommittee Memba






tbh I'd go pure covens and run something other than highly optimized Dark Tech.

Drukhari covens with zero raiders is a mid-tier or low-tier army.

Or honestly just any drukhari army outside of transports.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/09/20 19:11:05


"Got you, Yugi! Your Rubric Marines can't fall back because I have declared the tertiary kaptaris ka'tah stance two, after the secondary dacatarai ka'tah last turn!"

"So you think, Kaiba! I declared my Thousand Sons the cult of Duplicity, which means all my psykers have access to the Sorcerous Facade power! Furthermore I will spend 8 Cabal Points to invoke Cabbalistic Focus, causing the rubrics to appear behind your custodes! The Vengeance for the Wronged and Sorcerous Fullisade stratagems along with the Malefic Maelstrom infernal pact evoked earlier in the command phase allows me to double their firepower, letting me wound on 2s and 3s!"

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Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





Play what you want to play. Every army is pretty mid tier if you build it with some variety in the units. Top tier generally involves a degree of spam you have to go out of your way to build towards.
   
Made in us
Big Mek in Kustom Dragster with Soopa-Gun





Nebraska, USA

most important is to play what army aesthetically pleases you because the army has to be pretty bonkers OP to be shelved for "too good" (also usually it involves wahtever brand new unit came out in massive numbers anyway so easily dodged for the most part).
The other side of the spectrum unfortunately is more common but in general if you arent in a competitive environment they play fine too.

But, you cant get more mid-tier than Necrons. They are so overwhelmingly "meh" in every category lol. Really nothing disgustingly broken or pathetic about them, just "its ok..." results lol

An ork with an idea tends to end with a bang.

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Made in us
Calculating Commissar




pontiac, michigan; usa

Oddly I think darkhounds suggestion is the one I like most. I want to like the army I'm playing after all and if Imperial Guard are so weak then maybe I should play GSC. I think I wanted to do AdMech next but they're also top tier. I did also have some harlequins.

One of those 3 is probably fine. I'm not sure if I like GSC as much as I used to. If I've learned one thing from dark eldar though it's you want those fragile bodies in a transport most of the time and take vehicles the rest of the time. GSC might be different due to points per model tho.

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Perturbed Blood Angel Tactical Marine




Have you offered to swap armies with your buddy for a game here or there so that they can get a break from being dunked on?

Basically any of the 8th edition codexes are going to struggle hard against the 9th codexes. Harlequins and Custodes are possible exceptions but Custodes lean heavily on their Forgeworld roster to compete while Harlequins match well into marines - and they have a similar playing style to DE which you have already.

GSC, Chaos Marines, Tau, and CWE will all offer a more even playing field vs IG.

Depending on which dynasty is used, Necrons might be a good match up but I smoke my buddy's IG when I play the eternal conquerors/relentless expansionist custom dynasty pretty much every time we've played those armies against each other.
   
Made in au
Regular Dakkanaut





Don't go GSC or Raven Guard or Imperial Fists. Trash tier.

If you want a low-model count, competitive but not "meta" competitive army, I would say there is lots of good advice in this thread but my suggestions (in order) would be:

1. 'Nidzilla tryranids list. You can have a really low-count Tryranids list if you are prepared to go heavy on the monsters. FW are expensive, but I hear 3D printing and recasters are a thing, and a thing that is not worried by GW-only rules at tournaments. Highly customisable via custom hive fleets. Surprisingly competitive given the age of the codex.

2. Custodes. Low model count, tanky, fun to play and play against.

3. Necrons, for reasons others have noted.

4. Harlequins, with a few craft-world or dark eldar thrown in to fill out their very limited model range.

All the best and enjoy!
   
Made in it
Waaagh! Ork Warboss




Italy

I'd avoid skew lists, especially from those armies which are about to get a new codex soon, see tyranids monsters spam.

Harlequins and custodes have a pretty small roster though so it really doesn't matter if their codex isn't updated, as they're going to play basically the same lists with little tweaks.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/09/21 08:14:29


 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




When people talk about tiers it's important to remember they're usually talking about the strongest lists you can make from a Codex. So while DE or AdMech are certainly towards the top of the tier list it's still possible to make some pretty mid-tier lists depending what you take.

Necrons are probably the best bet for solid mid-tier. They should be pretty cheap to buy as they had a big release in Indomitus and there are some competitive builds if you want to up the power level every now and then. Armies like IG or Craftworlds are a bit of an unknown. They're not great right now but a new Codex might suddenly catapult them to the top of the army rankings.
   
Made in ca
Poisonous Kroot Headhunter





While this is certainly not a list for everyone, and it rather expensive to collect, I heard unconventional and Tau in the same sentence so I'm required to stop in and recommend Kroot.

Tau are already in the "lower tier" or armies at the moment, so I don't think you're in much danger if you just went with a Tau list, but I've recently been playing an all Kroot list (with Etherals for HQ) and it's a blast. (Though given what you've said about your local group, it might actually be too strong.)

A mix would be fun though, have some speedy hounds running around, a few Krootox in the backfield for objective holding and pot shots or running up and punching things really hard with their stratagem, some Carnivores to run up and grab objectives early. It won't be all that strong having just a random mixed bag of stuff, but that is kind of what you're going for right?

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/09/21 14:56:25


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