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Made in de
Longtime Dakkanaut



Bamberg / Erlangen

This model’s unit can never be targeted or affected by psychic powers in any way, nor can it attempt to manifest any psychic powers or perform any psychic actions.

How do you understand it in regards to the following examples:
(1) Your enemy casts a power that gives their unit -1 to be hit.
(2) Your enemy casts a power that gives their unit +1 to armour saves.

Would your unit with this Crusade Relic ignore both effects?

   
Made in gb
Decrepit Dakkanaut




1) the model ignores the -1 to hit , as reducing their value to hit is being affected in some way
2) same as 1)
   
Made in us
Captain of the Forlorn Hope





Chicago, IL

nosferatu1001 wrote:
1) the model ignores the -1 to hit , as reducing their value to hit is being affected in some way
2) same as 1)
For #1 you are probably correct as per RAW, but for #2, the unit with the Crusade Relic - Blackstone Shard Amulet is not being "targeted or affected by psychic powers in any way" as the power just gives the target unit a bonus to armor saves, which does not affect the unit with the "Crusade Relic - Blackstone Shard Amulet" at all.

"Did you notice a sign out in front of my chapel that said "Land Raider Storage"?" -High Chaplain Astorath the Grim Redeemer of the Lost.

I sold my soul to the devil and now the bastard is demanding a refund!

We do not have an attorney-client relationship. I am not your lawyer. The statements I make do not constitute legal advice. Any statements made by me are based upon the limited facts you have presented, and under the premise that you will consult with a local attorney. This is not an attempt to solicit business. This disclaimer is in addition to any disclaimers that this website has made.
 
   
Made in gb
Decrepit Dakkanaut




Hmm, I see that.
An improvement to their save isn't affecting the unit...
   
Made in de
Longtime Dakkanaut



Bamberg / Erlangen

Can we summarise that "affected by psychic powers" is limited to things that would interact with the relic bearer's unit statline and/or dice rolls?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
nosferatu1001 wrote:
Hmm, I see that.
An improvement to their save isn't affecting the unit...

In a very technical way, the damage performance of the relic bearer is affected by the psychic power improving the enemy unit's defense. I'm not arguing in that way, just want to throw the thought into the ring.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/09/23 09:13:30


   
Made in de
Nihilistic Necron Lord






Germany

 DeathReaper wrote:
nosferatu1001 wrote:
1) the model ignores the -1 to hit , as reducing their value to hit is being affected in some way
2) same as 1)
For #1 you are probably correct as per RAW, but for #2, the unit with the Crusade Relic - Blackstone Shard Amulet is not being "targeted or affected by psychic powers in any way" as the power just gives the target unit a bonus to armor saves, which does not affect the unit with the "Crusade Relic - Blackstone Shard Amulet" at all.


Except thats not true, because the unit is affected by that psychic power.
   
Made in gb
Decrepit Dakkanaut




I would fall back on
- it's crusade, discuss.
- the number of times we've seen GW consider "affected" to be pretty direct means I would exclude 2
   
Made in us
Confessor Of Sins





Tacoma, WA, USA

I concur with nosferatu1001, if the rule doesn't in some way cause an effect on your unit, your unit isn't affected by the rule.

My Armor Save does not change your targeting ability, Hit Roll, Wound Roll, or Damage Roll in any way. Therefore, it does not affect your attack or you.
   
Made in us
Humming Great Unclean One of Nurgle





In My Lab

 p5freak wrote:
 DeathReaper wrote:
nosferatu1001 wrote:
1) the model ignores the -1 to hit , as reducing their value to hit is being affected in some way
2) same as 1)
For #1 you are probably correct as per RAW, but for #2, the unit with the Crusade Relic - Blackstone Shard Amulet is not being "targeted or affected by psychic powers in any way" as the power just gives the target unit a bonus to armor saves, which does not affect the unit with the "Crusade Relic - Blackstone Shard Amulet" at all.


Except thats not true, because the unit is affected by that psychic power.
If there’s a three model unit within 3” of the bearer of the Amulet, and if they take one more wound worth of damage, that unit will lose a model and therefore make the bearer of the Amulet no longer benefit from Look Out Sir, can I Smite that unit? Assuming they’re the closest models, of course.

Clocks for the clockmaker! Cogs for the cog throne! 
   
Made in gb
Dakka Veteran





I don't agree that either of those should be negated by a blackstone amulet. Usually the fluff is something along the lines of the buffing unit manipulating the warp to reinforce their armour or obscure themselves with fire or shadow or whatever. They are literally changing realty, and units shooting at them will still suffer the effects regardless of whether they themselves can be affected by warp energies. It really seems to me like the intention is that it only prevents the bearer from being directly affected.

8930 points 6800 points 75 points 600 points
2810 points 4090 points 2650 points 3275 points
55 points 640 points 1840 points 435 points
2990 points 700 points 2235 points 1935 points
3460 points 1595 points 2480 points 2895 points
 
   
Made in de
Longtime Dakkanaut



Bamberg / Erlangen

I'm afraid there is no RAW answer, as "not being affected" is not a defined term anywhere in the rulebook.

As JNAProductions shows, you could make some really whacky situations of "being affected".

Just for giggles:
A unit of Rubrics is within charge range of the bearer and uses the power to teleport away. Not being able to charge the unit anymore in the following turn is a pretty strong way to affect your unit.. but equally ridonkulous to suggest it is covered by the relic.

From a fluff POV I imagine it works like a warding shield against direct attacks and something like a "truesight gem" for warp trickery. So you would see through smoke, fire and glamour with which demons try to distract you.

But that is not relevant for the discussion at hand. And the rules don't explain how the amulet is supposed to work in the fluff, either.

   
Made in us
Captain of the Forlorn Hope





Chicago, IL

 p5freak wrote:
 DeathReaper wrote:
nosferatu1001 wrote:
1) the model ignores the -1 to hit , as reducing their value to hit is being affected in some way
2) same as 1)
For #1 you are probably correct as per RAW, but for #2, the unit with the Crusade Relic - Blackstone Shard Amulet is not being "targeted or affected by psychic powers in any way" as the power just gives the target unit a bonus to armor saves, which does not affect the unit with the "Crusade Relic - Blackstone Shard Amulet" at all.


Except thats not true, because the unit is affected by that psychic power.
It is true though.

The only unit that is being affected by that psychic power that gives a +1 to save is the unit it is cast upon.

The unit with the Crusade Relic - Blackstone Shard Amulet is not being affected by the enemy having a +1 save value.

"Did you notice a sign out in front of my chapel that said "Land Raider Storage"?" -High Chaplain Astorath the Grim Redeemer of the Lost.

I sold my soul to the devil and now the bastard is demanding a refund!

We do not have an attorney-client relationship. I am not your lawyer. The statements I make do not constitute legal advice. Any statements made by me are based upon the limited facts you have presented, and under the premise that you will consult with a local attorney. This is not an attempt to solicit business. This disclaimer is in addition to any disclaimers that this website has made.
 
   
Made in de
Nihilistic Necron Lord






Germany

Ok, i misunderstood before, my apologies. I now agree that no.2 wouldnt affect the unit.
   
 
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