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2021/10/04 09:14:54
Subject: Female Chaos Sorcerers?
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Wicked Canoptek Wraith
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In Gladius's chaos campaign, the main chaos lord brings in a female "aspirant sorcerer" to analyze the messages Tzeentch sends. After analysis she says he is overstepping himself, and the chaos lord sacrifices her to Tzeentch out of rage.
My googling of "aspirant sorcerers" found nothing. All I could find is that they lead the rubrik marines. That's it. I can't find how they increase their numbers or how one becomes an "aspirant sorcerer".
It is my understanding that chaos sorcerers are former space marines. And space marines are all male. And all the models of aspirant sorcerers I can find are power armored to the same extent as the chaos space marines.
So how did a female become an "aspirant sorcerer" of the chaos space marines? And I'm pretty sure it's not mutations. The sorcerer was relatively unmutated at the start and became a lot more twisted post-communication with tzeentch.
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2021/10/04 09:21:07
Subject: Re:Female Chaos Sorcerers?
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Commander of the Mysterious 2nd Legion
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she's a mortal sorcrer not an astartes.
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Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two |
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2021/10/04 09:22:23
Subject: Female Chaos Sorcerers?
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Angered Reaver Arena Champion
Connah's Quay, North Wales
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Chaos Sorcerer is a catch-all term for people who use Chaos/Magic. Any Psyker which turns to Chaos and starts using rituals and daemons and chaotic artifacts can be described as a Sorcerer. It's not a gendered term. It's just that chaos forces in the game are usually Space Marine traitors, but they don't represent even the majority of the Chaos Forces in general.
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2021/10/04 09:47:35
Subject: Re:Female Chaos Sorcerers?
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Wicked Canoptek Wraith
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ALEXisAWESOME wrote:Chaos Sorcerer is a catch-all term for people who use Chaos/Magic. Any Psyker which turns to Chaos and starts using rituals and daemons and chaotic artifacts can be described as a Sorcerer. It's not a gendered term. It's just that chaos forces in the game are usually Space Marine traitors, but they don't represent even the majority of the Chaos Forces in general.
She's specifically called an "aspirant sorcerer". Aren't all "aspirant sorcerers" astartes? They're the ones leading the Rubrik marines and they're power armored just as heavily. Which makes all "aspirant sorcerers" Tzeentch's (cause he owns the Rubriks), and this "aspirant sorcerer" was called to interpret Tzeentch.
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2021/10/04 10:22:19
Subject: Re:Female Chaos Sorcerers?
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Commander of the Mysterious 2nd Legion
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aspiraing sorcerers are useally connected with squad leaders in 1k sons but there's no reason they have to be.
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Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two |
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2021/10/04 10:46:50
Subject: Female Chaos Sorcerers?
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Morally-Flexible Malleus Hearing Whispers
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Yeah, there are tons of Aspiring Cultist Sorcerers that are female mortal stock. The big bad in the new dark whatever series about the crusade is a mortal female sorcerer that directly serves the Chaos lord on the planet.
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2021/10/04 11:24:56
Subject: Female Chaos Sorcerers?
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Shadowy Grot Kommittee Memba
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All chaos space marines are not former loyalist astartes, and chaos is literally magic from a wizard that can turn you into a gibbering mass of mouths or a gigantic daemon.
Whatever in universe handwavey-science restriction on male-only astartes just does not apply to newly-minted-by-chaos chaos space marines, which will almost inevitably include the involvement of those aforementioned magical gods. Ascending to chaos space marine-hood is consistently mentioned to be one of the goals of various mortal cultists, all of whom tend to be portrayed as adults anyway which ALSO makes them ineligible for the traditional marine-making process as the imperium understands it.
We know chaos can turn adult mortal cultists into new chaos space marines -> chaos can also transform humans and space marines into much wilder, crazier physical forms than just space marines like dragons and winged daemons and blobs of flesh -> female chaos space marines are basically an inevitability...especially considering that some warbands probably would consider that to be a fantastic middle finger to the supposedly "all powerful" imperium. Look, we can do what you can't do with the power of our gods!
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"Got you, Yugi! Your Rubric Marines can't fall back because I have declared the tertiary kaptaris ka'tah stance two, after the secondary dacatarai ka'tah last turn!"
"So you think, Kaiba! I declared my Thousand Sons the cult of Duplicity, which means all my psykers have access to the Sorcerous Facade power! Furthermore I will spend 8 Cabal Points to invoke Cabbalistic Focus, causing the rubrics to appear behind your custodes! The Vengeance for the Wronged and Sorcerous Fullisade stratagems along with the Malefic Maelstrom infernal pact evoked earlier in the command phase allows me to double their firepower, letting me wound on 2s and 3s!"
"you think it is you who has gotten me, yugi, but it is I who have gotten you! I declare the ever-vigilant stratagem to attack your rubrics with my custodes' ranged weapons, which with the new codex are now DAMAGE 2!!"
"...which leads you straight into my trap, Kaiba, you see I now declare the stratagem Implacable Automata, reducing all damage from your attacks by 1 and triggering my All is Dust special rule!" |
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2021/10/04 12:00:41
Subject: Re:Female Chaos Sorcerers?
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Witch Hunter in the Shadows
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No, it's just a term to seperate them from the fully fledged sorcerers. Kind of like 'aspiring champion' and 'champion'.
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2021/10/04 12:45:27
Subject: Re:Female Chaos Sorcerers?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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The Tzeentch background all the way back to the original Realms of Chaos books has the existence of thrall wizards. They are basically the non-SM psyker servants of the Thousand Sons, performing menial sorcerous tasks or helping their masters up to and including being sacrifices. They do so in the hope of Thrall-Champion, and possibly then a Champion of Tzeentch in their own right and then hopefully a Daemon Prince. Remember that not all Champions of a Chaos god have to be CSM. It's just that GW has focused on them for many editions now almost to the exclusion of non-CSM Chaos Champions.
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2021/10/04 16:37:26
Subject: Female Chaos Sorcerers?
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Ancient Venerable Dreadnought
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I'm sure the number of mortal chaos sorcerer/wizard/witch/shaman/whatever outnumbers the total number of 1ksons.
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2021/10/04 17:09:28
Subject: Female Chaos Sorcerers?
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Leader of the Sept
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Racerguy180 wrote:I'm sure the number of mortal chaos sorcerer/wizard/witch/shaman/whatever on a single planet (i.e. Necromunda) outnumbers the total number of 1ksons.
Slight addition
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Please excuse any spelling errors. I use a tablet frequently and software keyboards are a pain!
Terranwing - w3;d1;l1
51st Dunedinw2;d0;l0
Cadre Coronal Afterglow w1;d0;l0 |
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2021/10/04 18:14:13
Subject: Female Chaos Sorcerers?
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Ancient Venerable Dreadnought
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True true...
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2021/10/05 03:22:11
Subject: Re:Female Chaos Sorcerers?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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roboemperor wrote:
She's specifically called an "aspirant sorcerer". Aren't all "aspirant sorcerers" astartes? They're the ones leading the Rubrik marines and they're power armored just as heavily. Which makes all "aspirant sorcerers" Tzeentch's (cause he owns the Rubriks), and this "aspirant sorcerer" was called to interpret Tzeentch.
There's more to the world that the models you see on the table.
Which makes your leap from "all aspirant sorcerers there are models for are Thousand Sons characters" to "all aspirant sorcerers there are models for are the only ones that exist therefore ..."
That is, of course, before even getting into "What, you don't think Tzeentch could do it?"
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2021/10/05 03:52:45
Subject: Female Chaos Sorcerers?
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Focused Fire Warrior
Les Etats Unis
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the_scotsman wrote:All chaos space marines are not former loyalist astartes, and chaos is literally magic from a wizard that can turn you into a gibbering mass of mouths or a gigantic daemon.
Whatever in universe handwavey-science restriction on male-only astartes just does not apply to newly-minted-by-chaos chaos space marines, which will almost inevitably include the involvement of those aforementioned magical gods. Ascending to chaos space marine-hood is consistently mentioned to be one of the goals of various mortal cultists, all of whom tend to be portrayed as adults anyway which ALSO makes them ineligible for the traditional marine-making process as the imperium understands it.
We know chaos can turn adult mortal cultists into new chaos space marines -> chaos can also transform humans and space marines into much wilder, crazier physical forms than just space marines like dragons and winged daemons and blobs of flesh -> female chaos space marines are basically an inevitability...especially considering that some warbands probably would consider that to be a fantastic middle finger to the supposedly "all powerful" imperium. Look, we can do what you can't do with the power of our gods!
This is why female CSMs are ten times cooler as an idea than female loyalist marines
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Dudeface wrote: Eldarain wrote:Is there another game where players consistently blame each other for the failings of the creator?
If you want to get existential, life for some. |
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2021/10/05 07:45:46
Subject: Female Chaos Sorcerers?
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Wicked Canoptek Wraith
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the_scotsman wrote:All chaos space marines are not former loyalist astartes, and chaos is literally magic from a wizard that can turn you into a gibbering mass of mouths or a gigantic daemon.
Whatever in universe handwavey-science restriction on male-only astartes just does not apply to newly-minted-by-chaos chaos space marines, which will almost inevitably include the involvement of those aforementioned magical gods. Ascending to chaos space marine-hood is consistently mentioned to be one of the goals of various mortal cultists, all of whom tend to be portrayed as adults anyway which ALSO makes them ineligible for the traditional marine-making process as the imperium understands it.
We know chaos can turn adult mortal cultists into new chaos space marines -> chaos can also transform humans and space marines into much wilder, crazier physical forms than just space marines like dragons and winged daemons and blobs of flesh -> female chaos space marines are basically an inevitability...especially considering that some warbands probably would consider that to be a fantastic middle finger to the supposedly "all powerful" imperium. Look, we can do what you can't do with the power of our gods!
Wait, so you're saying even Masters of Possession and other special chaos sorcerers have females within their ranks?
Do you know where I can read more about adult mortal cultists turning into new chaos space marines? I always thought csm was finite in number cause their gene seeds become too mutated for future reliable use.
FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:Yeah, there are tons of Aspiring Cultist Sorcerers that are female mortal stock. The big bad in the new dark whatever series about the crusade is a mortal female sorcerer that directly serves the Chaos lord on the planet.
There are a lot of "dark whatever" series. If you could remember the exact "whatever" that'd be incredibly helpful!
A.T. wrote:No, it's just a term to seperate them from the fully fledged sorcerers. Kind of like 'aspiring champion' and 'champion'.
solkan wrote:There's more to the world that the models you see on the table.
Which makes your leap from "all aspirant sorcerers there are models for are Thousand Sons characters" to "all aspirant sorcerers there are models for are the only ones that exist therefore ..."
That is, of course, before even getting into "What, you don't think Tzeentch could do it?"
But aren't "aspirant sorcerers" an actual squad leader unit type name? Wouldn't that mean every time "aspirant sorcerer" is mentioned it's referring to rubrik marines squad leaders? As in if the books say "necron pariah", they're referring to the necron pariah unit instead of a necron who is considered a pariah in his own dynasty. So likewise when they say "aspirant sorcerer", they're referring to rubrik marines squad leader instead of a cultist who is aspiring to be a sorcerer.
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This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2021/10/05 07:50:53
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2021/10/05 07:50:50
Subject: Female Chaos Sorcerers?
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Moustache-twirling Princeps
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roboemperor wrote:Do you know where I can read more about adult mortal cultists turning into new chaos space marines? I always thought csm was finite in number cause their gene seeds become too mutated for future reliable use.
One of the Iron Warriors novels ( Storm of Iron?) has a suit of power armour choosing a new (female slave) occupant. It's more like a rank. Lexicanum defines it as: Aspiring Sorcerer: Sorcerers in training before becoming true Chaos Sorcerers
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/10/05 07:55:16
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2021/10/05 08:11:28
Subject: Female Chaos Sorcerers?
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Wicked Canoptek Wraith
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beast_gts wrote:One of the Iron Warriors novels ( Storm of Iron?) has a suit of power armour choosing a new (female slave) occupant.
That is definitely something I'd love to read. I'm a go see if I can find it.
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2021/10/05 08:34:08
Subject: Female Chaos Sorcerers?
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Witch Hunter in the Shadows
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roboemperor wrote:But aren't "aspirant sorcerers" an actual squad leader unit type name? Wouldn't that mean every time "aspirant sorcerer" is mentioned it's referring to rubrik marines squad leaders?
'Veteran Sergeant' is a unit type name.
Not every veteran sergeant is a Space Marine.
And the Thousand Sons unit is called Aspir ing Sorcerer anyway...
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2021/10/05 09:08:28
Subject: Female Chaos Sorcerers?
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Wicked Canoptek Wraith
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beast_gts wrote:One of the Iron Warriors novels ( Storm of Iron?) has a suit of power armour choosing a new (female slave) occupant.
Found it and read it.
The female's name is Larana Utorian. And the Chaos Space Marine suit is a Daemon Engine I guess. As Larana put on the suit, she gained muscles and the insides of the suit collapsed to fit her form because I guess a muscled woman is smaller than Kroeger, the original owner of the armor. And then the Daemon then possessed her. Larana has 0 control over her body and can do absolutely nothing but scream inside her mind, but she seems to be able to at least see what the Daemon sees.
The Daemon is now called the "Avatar of Khorne" and exploded an entire battalion? of imperial troops and consumed their souls, growing to "monstrous proportions" but I guess his armor grew with him? All it says it creaked and groaned to contain all the power it just absorbed so I think its still whole meaning it grew with the Daemon. And that's how the book ends, he caps some librarian and walks into a space-time rift he cut open as Larana screamed inside her head.
So...... yeah. Her body was able to wear the armor fully before being fully possessed but I don't know if she rejected the Daemon at the last moment her body would shrink back down.
Anyways, this is a "possessed" and not a CSM nor a Chaos sorcerer so I think it's irrelevant?
edit: Are there any Daemon or Possessed Chaos Sorcerers?
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/10/05 09:23:58
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2021/10/05 10:37:39
Subject: Female Chaos Sorcerers?
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Leader of the Sept
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I would imagine that sorcerers are pretty close to being possessed at all times, with their mind being pretty open to the warp
Once they get possessed their sorcerer powers will be based on they type of daemon doing the possessing I suppose.
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Please excuse any spelling errors. I use a tablet frequently and software keyboards are a pain!
Terranwing - w3;d1;l1
51st Dunedinw2;d0;l0
Cadre Coronal Afterglow w1;d0;l0 |
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2021/10/05 11:25:28
Subject: Female Chaos Sorcerers?
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Veteran Inquisitorial Tyranid Xenokiller
Watch Fortress Excalibris
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Nobody's yet mentioned Savona from the Fabius Bile novels?
A female chaos cultist who was given a suit of power armour, ate some geneseed and became an exalted champion of Slaanesh, later ending up in charge of the 12th Millennial (i.e. chapter) of the Emperor's Children legion.
She might not technically have been an Astartes, but she was able to fight 'true' Astartes on an equal footing (not relying on weight of numbers like the gland-hounds). You could certainly represent her or someone like her in game as a CSM champion or lord.
So take someone like Savona and make her a psyker and she'd basically be a 'counts as' CSM sorcerer.
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A little bit of righteous anger now and then is good, actually. Don't trust a person who never gets angry. |
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2021/10/05 12:00:06
Subject: Female Chaos Sorcerers?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Duskweaver wrote:Nobody's yet mentioned Savona from the Fabius Bile novels?
A female chaos cultist who was given a suit of power armour, ate some geneseed and became an exalted champion of Slaanesh, later ending up in charge of the 12th Millennial (i.e. chapter) of the Emperor's Children legion.
She might not technically have been an Astartes, but she was able to fight 'true' Astartes on an equal footing (not relying on weight of numbers like the gland-hounds). You could certainly represent her or someone like her in game as a CSM champion or lord.
So take someone like Savona and make her a psyker and she'd basically be a 'counts as' CSM sorcerer.
She was a cool character, I think she killed an EC for her power armour and that it was grafted onto her or part of her body somehow by chaos powers. Which is true for many EC aswell.
I’m hoping that many of the characters from those novels are available as characters if we ever get an EC codex. Although she would be a good kitbash project
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2021/10/05 12:42:39
Subject: Female Chaos Sorcerers?
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Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests
Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.
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Not all Chaos Sorcerers are Space Marines.
That's the answer.
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2021/10/05 13:35:13
Subject: Re:Female Chaos Sorcerers?
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The Dread Evil Lord Varlak
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Iracundus wrote:The Tzeentch background all the way back to the original Realms of Chaos books has the existence of thrall wizards. They are basically the non- SM psyker servants of the Thousand Sons, performing menial sorcerous tasks or helping their masters up to and including being sacrifices. They do so in the hope of Thrall-Champion, and possibly then a Champion of Tzeentch in their own right and then hopefully a Daemon Prince. Remember that not all Champions of a Chaos god have to be CSM. It's just that GW has focused on them for many editions now almost to the exclusion of non- CSM Chaos Champions.
This, and It is not helped by GW shooting Lost and the damned / R&H in the back consistently to sell more Power armor power fantasies.
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https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page
A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.
GW:"Space marines got too many options to balance, therefore we decided to legends HH units."
Players: "why?!? Now we finally got decent plastic kits and you cut them?"
Chaos marines players: "Since when are Daemonengines 30k models and why do i have NO droppods now?"
GW" MONEY.... erm i meant TOO MANY OPTIONS (to resell your army to you again by disalowing former units)! Do you want specific tyranid fighiting Primaris? Even a new sabotage lieutnant!"
Chaos players: Guess i stop playing or go to HH. |
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2021/10/05 14:19:33
Subject: Female Chaos Sorcerers?
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Witch Hunter in the Shadows
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Duskweaver wrote:A female chaos cultist who was given a suit of power armour, ate some geneseed and became an exalted champion of Slaanesh, later ending up in charge of the 12th Millennial (i.e. chapter) of the Emperor's Children legion.
It's times like this that daemonic mutation is a big advantage, rather than being an expanding human in not-expanding human power armour or a regular human stretch-armstronged into astartes armour...
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2021/10/05 19:42:35
Subject: Female Chaos Sorcerers?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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It’s a shame that GW didn’t add cultists to the DG and TS codexes, squads of wanna be sorceresses hurling warp bullets would have been cool
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