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https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/blacklistgames/myth-and-goal

Surprised this hasn't popped up yet given the Big Name involved.

So far it's 109$+shipping for the game with Blacklist Games PVC 16-man (2x8 sculpts) teams of Elves, Dwarfs, Orcs, Empire and Lizardmen, and apparently Skaven coming next. Add-on buys for Halflings, Undead and all the usual bling bling like neoprene mats.






https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/blacklistgames/myth-and-goal

I backed it day 1. Not only for the teams, but the game itself looks fairly good, and the solo play mode seems pretty well thought out.

Interesting. Not digging the minis, but James Hewitt's work on Blitz Bowl was outstanding, so this has a very decent chance of being a good game.

 AceXT wrote:
Interesting. Not digging the minis, but James Hewitt's work on Blitz Bowl was outstanding, so this has a very decent chance of being a good game.

Can always buy the box that doesn't come with any minis, and replace the cardboard standees with your choice of official GW Blood Bowl minis, or third party stuff.

Gotta say though, the minis are cheap enough that I will probably be using them for Blood Bowl tournaments. Would rather those cheap PVC minis get lost/stolen/destroyed than my nice Greebo or MK1881 metal teams.

 NH Gunsmith wrote:

 AceXT wrote:
Interesting. Not digging the minis, but James Hewitt's work on Blitz Bowl was outstanding, so this has a very decent chance of being a good game.

Can always buy the box that doesn't come with any minis, and replace the cardboard standees with your choice of official GW Blood Bowl minis, or third party stuff.

Gotta say though, the minis are cheap enough that I will probably be using them for Blood Bowl tournaments. Would rather those cheap PVC minis get lost/stolen/destroyed than my nice Greebo or MK1881 metal teams.

Man... what kind of Blood Bowl events are you at where models are getting destroyed and stolen...?

I like Blacklist Games, but if I'm going to play a sport game, I'm just going to play Blood Bowl. I was kind of surprised by the minis, they look like very generic takes on fantasy football and don't provide much appeal to BB players or competition with BB models.

I went all-in on the blacklist fantasy kickstarters (there's a pile of the minis on my paint desk in front of me as I type this!) but held off on this simply because the sculpts lack character and distinction.

The dwarf team is the best because it looks recognisable as a dwarf team, the humans, elves and orcs all blend though, with the same proportions and standardized armour with a few spikes in it. And the player positions don't look much different to each other.

I have a feeling the game will end up being excellent though, James Hewitt designed Dreadball and Blitz Ball, which are both straight-up better versions of blood bowl in rules terms, just more fun.I

Blood Bowl as a ruleset is about 25 years out of date and it shows, but that's the only thing that will reliably get played. I do miss the days about 5-8 years ago when Dreadball was all the rage and had big tournaments.

 frankelee wrote:
I like Blacklist Games, but if I'm going to play a sport game, I'm just going to play Blood Bowl. I was kind of surprised by the minis, they look like very generic takes on fantasy football and don't provide much appeal to BB players or competition with BB models.

But... Blacklist Games is all about generic, soulless minis

I'd back for Hewitt but right now I'm wondering if there's going to be any supply line from China at all this time next year.

I backed MVP because the solo play has me interested because I'm tired of losing. Lol..

 lord_blackfang wrote:

 frankelee wrote:
I like Blacklist Games, but if I'm going to play a sport game, I'm just going to play Blood Bowl. I was kind of surprised by the minis, they look like very generic takes on fantasy football and don't provide much appeal to BB players or competition with BB models.

But... Blacklist Games is all about generic, soulless minis

I'd back for Hewitt but right now I'm wondering if there's going to be any supply line from China at all this time next year.

Well yeah, but D&D and Pathfinder are generic, soulless settings. So those minis have a lot of appeal and sold well.

Maybe M&G is on brand, but not surprisingly, also is a low seller.

Apparently canceled?
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/blacklistgames/myth-and-goal/posts/3325306

That's odd, with a final surge it could easily have made $250k, far more than previous board game kickstarters they've made.

Seems like a lot of money to leave on the table, most smaller companies would go for it and certainly enough to produce the game.

I do wonder if FS1 and 2 have raised their expectations a little too high, I recall getting a survey emailed at one point asking me why I hadn't backed horror series 1. It's possible they're only interested in stuff that funds $500k+ with ease?

scarletsquig wrote:
That's odd, with a final surge it could easily have made $250k, far more than previous board game kickstarters they've made.

Seems like a lot of money to leave on the table.

Blacklist Games wrote:The overall debut of this game did not meet the expectations set upon it, so in order to ensure Myth & Goal truly shines as bright as it can, we've decided to return to the drawing board in order to create a package that better reflects what more tabletop gamers desire and also to deliver a product that is worthy of the hard work the entire team has put into it.

Shipping from China just increased fivefold. It's now probably the biggest single expense in producing a board game.

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Shipping from China just increased fivefold. It's now probably the biggest single expense in producing a board game.

Assuming, of course, that the manufacturers don't go bankrupt from their already thin margins. China currently has a slew of economic problems (supply chain problems, energy crisis, RE market and therefore banking system and therefore their whole darn economy bubble, not to mention a certain worldwide virus) that certainly contributed to my decision to yellow-flag any plastic miniatures made in China. Also, USA backers of FS1 have not received their miniatures, and at least a vocal minority have said they won't pledge for BLG until they receive their mini's. And then there's BLG's experience with their Horror KS, which resulted in the awkward situation of half a faction not being unlocked, as well as much less funding than the FS1 and FS2 KS (and more than Myth). I'm thinking it's more of a coincidence, but another plastic miniatures KS is stalling and not yet funded.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

scarletsquig wrote:
That's odd, with a final surge it could easily have made $250k, far more than previous board game kickstarters they've made.

Well, funding goals aren't necessarily actual costs. The worst case scenario I've seen is that a creator reach funding goals, but the actual costs depends on an outside investor -- which was not revealed to backers -- and the investor pulls out, or has enough control over the project to ruin it. At best, I look for creators who already have existing product, since profit from them can pay for any funds a new project needs. No guarantee, of course.

Yeah I think we're at a point where paying upfront for stuff that's planned to be made in China is unwise at best.

scarletsquig wrote:
Seems like a lot of money to leave on the table

Oh -- speaking of money left on the table, iirc, back in FS2 (or FS1?) BLG was asked why they didn't crossover their game systems (eg. Altar Quest) with their miniature lines (eg. Fantasy Series). Personally, I think they should have released a Horror Altar Quest instead of the new Dire Alliance to tie in a new line of miniatures with an existing customer base (take THAT completionists!). Additionally, the Sadler Brothers know Isaac "I will not make miniatures for Gloomhaven" Childress (sp) and many FS2 backers (?) were Gloomhaven fans who wanted the FS miniatures that could be used in GH. Again, personally, I think should have made an official GH miniatures set (not cheap, but GH fans have shown that they will spend $$$ to pimp their GH games (including buying a $300+ 3D printer for fanmade GH terrain and figures) *and* if you actually play GH, you won't be buying other expensive boardgames, anyway) before Dire Alliance.

But BLG said they were more interested in bringing new games to market, which meant generating interest based on their company reputation (BLG has released games, but they're nowhere near FFG or, gasp, CMON), rather than taking advantage of an established customer base for their existing games and miniatures. With China's non-existent tides no longer able to lift all boats, BLG's less popular game lines has resulted in Myth being cancelled (for now).

Returning back to Myth, I'm too lazy to guesstimate its cost, but it looks like Myth has unique sculpts? FS has multiple miniatures per sculpt, as well as no printed components would make it cost less per miniature than Myth, yet FS raised $1.4M compared to Myth's $180K+. fwiw, Myth's KS shows a good amount of concept art rather than digital sculpts, lowering the sunken costs of the project from the campaign.

But I think that's fine. IMO, KS is still not a store, and I think KS campaigns give better feedback to a creator of the rewards of a project, without having to take the risks retail would have.

Yeah Myth was more ambitious in that department, it had 2 copies each of 8 unique sculpts per faction, times... 6 or 7 factions. Plus big guys. On the flipside, it didn't really offer much model wise that you can't buy right now for 34€ in glorious GW plastic. It should have leaned more heavily into the renown of the author and strength of the ruleset, but the gameplay videos were all pretty... not super well done.

Manufacturing Status

In our last update on September 13th, we said we'd been told the factory would have everything ready and palletized by the end of September. Unfortunately, shortly after that update, electricity shortages and subsequent energy conservation regulations in China (read more about these here or here) hit the entire country. This resulted in many factories like ours shutting down on some weekdays and operating only for a handful of hours when open, so weeks-long delays in the completion of projects occurred. As such, Dire Alliance has been at the mercy of a slowed pace and the completion of the project ahead of ours on the assembly line.

Update from Blacklist's previous campaign, Dire Alliance: Horror, lends some credibility to the idea they simply realized China isn't a reliable partner at the moment.