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2021/10/09 20:08:10
Subject: Unaligned units in detachments 9th edition - Spindle Drones
So Core rulebook for 9th edition (or wahapedia advanced rules section) states that to make Battle-Forged army you need to have:
In a Battle-forged army, all of the units in your army - with the exception of those that are UNALIGNED — must have at least one Faction keyword in common (e.g. IMPERIUM or CHAOS) even if they are in different Detachments. If a unit does not have the correct Faction keyword, it cannot be included in your army.
Then in specific armies codexes Detachments rules we can read, for example from Necrons Codex:
NECRONS Detachment is one that only includes models with the NECRONS keyword (excluding models with the UNALIGNED keyword).
NECRONS Detachments gain the Royal Court and Dynastic Agents and Star Gods abilities.
NECRONS units in NECRONS Detachments gain the Dynastic Codes ability.
Troops units in NECRONS Detachments gain the Objective Secured ability.
So technically you can use Spindle Drones unit as cheap (only 65 pts. compared to cheapest Necron troops unit of 5 Immortals 85 pts.) troops choice AND STILL GAIN OBJECTIVE SECURED? Because rules above state that you can include them in your army and in your detachment and they simply have to be Troops (not NECRON troops) to gain Objective Secured...
2021/10/09 21:17:37
Subject: Re:Unaligned units in detachments 9th edition - Spindle Drones
All detachments that allow more than one unit, except for Fortification Network, require all units to be of the same Faction. So this make using Spindle Drones as a troops choice not possible in anything other than an Unaligned detachment.
2021/10/09 23:32:30
Subject: Re:Unaligned units in detachments 9th edition - Spindle Drones
So you can use them in Auxiliary Support Detachment but they won't get any objective secured :( thx
(i think that is "Factions" section from Advanced Rules section of wahapedia)
2021/10/10 06:49:18
Subject: Re:Unaligned units in detachments 9th edition - Spindle Drones
alextroy wrote: All detachments that allow more than one unit, except for Fortification Network, require all units to be of the same Faction. So this make using Spindle Drones as a troops choice not possible in anything other than an Unaligned detachment.
Unaligned units are excluded from the rules that require all units to be from the same faction, or have the same faction keyword. You can include an unaligned unit in a necron detachment and still get dynasty codes, and you are still battle forged. The relevant rules have already been posted by the OP.
2021/10/10 11:41:26
Subject: Unaligned units in detachments 9th edition - Spindle Drones
A battleforged army can have unaligned units in it eg auxiliary support
And fortification detatchments have no restriction so you can take a necron bastion
Unaligned units don't generally prevent faction bonuses
A detatchment with necron keywords and unaligned is a necron detatchment but currently that can only be a fortification detatchment due to the restrictions on individual detatchments
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/10/10 11:43:36
2021/10/10 14:27:12
Subject: Re:Unaligned units in detachments 9th edition - Spindle Drones
alextroy wrote: All detachments that allow more than one unit, except for Fortification Network, require all units to be of the same Faction. So this make using Spindle Drones as a troops choice not possible in anything other than an Unaligned detachment.
Unaligned units are excluded from the rules that require all units to be from the same faction, or have the same faction keyword. You can include an unaligned unit in a necron detachment and still get dynasty codes, and you are still battle forged. The relevant rules have already been posted by the OP.
This.
The UNALIGNED keyword works in the exact opposite way to how it did in 8th. All the rules are in the OP. GW gotta sell them Zoats/Ambulls/BSF minis somehow, so preventing people from using them in games would be counterproductive would it not?
Games Workshop Delenda Est.
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If you break apart my or anyone else's posts line by line I will not read them.
2021/10/10 14:46:30
Subject: Re:Unaligned units in detachments 9th edition - Spindle Drones
alextroy wrote: All detachments that allow more than one unit, except for Fortification Network, require all units to be of the same Faction. So this make using Spindle Drones as a troops choice not possible in anything other than an Unaligned detachment.
Unaligned units are excluded from the rules that require all units to be from the same faction, or have the same faction keyword. You can include an unaligned unit in a necron detachment and still get dynasty codes, and you are still battle forged. The relevant rules have already been posted by the OP.
This.
The UNALIGNED keyword works in the exact opposite way to how it did in 8th. All the rules are in the OP. GW gotta sell them Zoats/Ambulls/BSF minis somehow, so preventing people from using them in games would be counterproductive would it not?
I'm gong to need a rules quote for that. I've looked on pages 244 to 251 of the rulebook and only see that is true for the Army Faction, not for Detachments.
2021/10/10 16:19:52
Subject: Re:Unaligned units in detachments 9th edition - Spindle Drones
alextroy wrote: All detachments that allow more than one unit, except for Fortification Network, require all units to be of the same Faction. So this make using Spindle Drones as a troops choice not possible in anything other than an Unaligned detachment.
Unaligned units are excluded from the rules that require all units to be from the same faction, or have the same faction keyword. You can include an unaligned unit in a necron detachment and still get dynasty codes, and you are still battle forged. The relevant rules have already been posted by the OP.
This.
The UNALIGNED keyword works in the exact opposite way to how it did in 8th. All the rules are in the OP. GW gotta sell them Zoats/Ambulls/BSF minis somehow, so preventing people from using them in games would be counterproductive would it not?
I'm gong to need a rules quote for that. I've looked on pages 244 to 251 of the rulebook and only see that is true for the Army Faction, not for Detachments.
Read what the OP posted. The rules are there.
2021/10/10 21:33:26
Subject: Re:Unaligned units in detachments 9th edition - Spindle Drones
NECRONS Detachment is one that only includes models with the NECRONS keyword (excluding models with the UNALIGNED keyword).
I fail at reading comprehension.
This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2021/10/10 22:20:34
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2021/10/10 22:08:29
Subject: Unaligned units in detachments 9th edition - Spindle Drones
Huh? That's exactly the opposite of what that rule says.
It states it is a necron detachment if every unit, EXCEPT unaligned units, in the detachment are necron
So unaligned units can be included in a necron detachment, and it remains a necron detachment.
2021/10/10 22:15:46
Subject: Re:Unaligned units in detachments 9th edition - Spindle Drones
alextroy wrote: All detachments that allow more than one unit, except for Fortification Network, require all units to be of the same Faction. So this make using Spindle Drones as a troops choice not possible in anything other than an Unaligned detachment.
Unaligned units are excluded from the rules that require all units to be from the same faction, or have the same faction keyword. You can include an unaligned unit in a necron detachment and still get dynasty codes, and you are still battle forged. The relevant rules have already been posted by the OP.
This.
The UNALIGNED keyword works in the exact opposite way to how it did in 8th. All the rules are in the OP. GW gotta sell them Zoats/Ambulls/BSF minis somehow, so preventing people from using them in games would be counterproductive would it not?
I'm gong to need a rules quote for that. I've looked on pages 244 to 251 of the rulebook and only see that is true for the Army Faction, not for Detachments.
Read what the OP posted. The rules are there.
In a Battle-forged army, all of the units in your army - with the exception of those that are UNALIGNED — must have at least one Faction keyword in common (e.g. IMPERIUM or CHAOS) even if they are in different Detachments. If a unit does not have the correct Faction keyword, it cannot be included in your army.
Try re-reading that with the emphasis added and note how the only mention of Detachments is about them being in different Detachments. Now try re-reading the rest of the post.
NECRONS Detachment is one that only includes models with the NECRONS keyword (excluding models with the UNALIGNED keyword).
NECRONS [/b]Detachments[/b] gain the Royal Court and Dynastic Agents and Star Gods abilities.
NECRONS units in NECRONS Detachments gain the Dynastic Codes ability.
Army =/= Detachment. You can include Unaligned units in a <faction> Army, but not a <faction> Detachment.
I agree. However, the following detachments all include the restriction "All units must be from the same Faction":
Patrol Detachment
Battalion Detachment
Bridage Detachment
Vanguard Detachment
Spearhead Detachment
Outrider Detachment
Spearhead Detachment
Super-Heavy Detachment
So my point remains valid. You can have a Necrons Detachment with Unaligned models in it, but the only detachment that allows you to do that is a Fortification Network since you can only put one unit into a Supreme Command Detachment, a Super-Heavy Auxiliary Detachment and an Auxiliary Support Detachment and all other detachments disallow placing Unaligned units in them with Necron units.
So it is completely legal to put those Unaligned units in your Necron army, but they cannot be in the same detachment as your Necron units (except for Fortifications).
2021/10/10 23:08:40
Subject: Unaligned units in detachments 9th edition - Spindle Drones
alextroy wrote: I agree. However, the following detachments all include the restriction "All units must be from the same Faction":
Patrol Detachment
Battalion Detachment
Bridage Detachment
Vanguard Detachment
Spearhead Detachment
Outrider Detachment
Spearhead Detachment
Super-Heavy Detachment
So my point remains valid. You can have a Necrons Detachment with Unaligned models in it, but the only detachment that allows you to do that is a Fortification Network since you can only put one unit into a Supreme Command Detachment, a Super-Heavy Auxiliary Detachment and an Auxiliary Support Detachment and all other detachments disallow placing Unaligned units in them with Necron units.
The more specific rule from the necron codex overwrites the general rule from the BRB.
NECRONS Detachment is one that only includes models with the NECRONS keyword (excluding models with the UNALIGNED keyword).
2021/10/11 07:27:59
Subject: Unaligned units in detachments 9th edition - Spindle Drones
Also not every game is Matched Play. Is using Unaligned stuff you’re probably wandering into Open/Narrative territory so can use more mutable rules and have your cake and eat it. The problem comes when trying to fudge into and All Matched Play All The Time type mindset, where these models just don’t work.
Stormonu wrote: For me, the joy is in putting some good-looking models on the board and playing out a fantasy battle - not arguing over the poorly-made rules of some 3rd party who neither has any power over my play nor will be visiting me (and my opponent) to ensure we are "playing by the rules"
2021/10/11 09:41:33
Subject: Re:Unaligned units in detachments 9th edition - Spindle Drones
alextroy wrote: I agree. However, the following detachments all include the restriction "All units must be from the same Faction":
Patrol Detachment
Battalion Detachment
Bridage Detachment
Vanguard Detachment
Spearhead Detachment
Outrider Detachment
Spearhead Detachment
Super-Heavy Detachment
So my point remains valid. You can have a Necrons Detachment with Unaligned models in it, but the only detachment that allows you to do that is a Fortification Network since you can only put one unit into a Supreme Command Detachment, a Super-Heavy Auxiliary Detachment and an Auxiliary Support Detachment and all other detachments disallow placing Unaligned units in them with Necron units.
The more specific rule from the necron codex overwrites the general rule from the BRB.
NECRONS Detachment is one that only includes models with the NECRONS keyword (excluding models with the UNALIGNED keyword).
Context helps in this case. The rules in the codex describe what a NECRONS Detachment *is* since it goes on to use the phrase throughout the codex. It doesn't remove any restrictions listed on individual detachments listed in the core rule book.
2021/10/11 12:41:08
Subject: Re:Unaligned units in detachments 9th edition - Spindle Drones
Of course GW only wrote that NECRONS detachment rule to cover the case when someone would use a bastion and a sentry pylon (or similar) in a fortification detachment
2021/10/12 12:52:08
Subject: Re:Unaligned units in detachments 9th edition - Spindle Drones
p5freak wrote: Of course GW only wrote that NECRONS detachment rule to cover the case when someone would use a bastion and a sentry pylon (or similar) in a fortification detachment
That doesn't sound like a RAW argument to me.
Their intention in writing the rule is irrelevant.
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2021/10/12 22:41:01
Subject: Unaligned units in detachments 9th edition - Spindle Drones