Switch Theme:

Can Tyranids eat Necrodermis?  [RSS] Share on facebook Share on Twitter Submit to Reddit
»
Author Message
Advert


Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
  • No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
  • Times and dates in your local timezone.
  • Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
  • Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
  • Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.




Made in us
Wicked Canoptek Wraith




Necron Codex says the Charnovokh Dyansty tomb worlds were devoured by Hive Fleet Behemoth. Does this "devoured" mean that the necron tombs themselves were devoured? Or just that the planet was devoured and as a result all the tombs are devastated by reckless tyranids burrowing through the crust?

Devastation of Baal says Hive Fleet Leviathan target Admech to nom their refined metals.
Shield of Baal: Leviathan says Tyranids eat Gas Giants
Pyrovores say they eat metal. Necrodermis is metal.

Admech codex says they beat Hive Fleet Leviathan at a war of attrition by recycling the metal parts of servitors Tyranids couldn't nom.
Gladius says Hive Fleet Kraken gain nothing from defeating Necrons.
IIRC Battle Fleet Gothic Armada 2 also says lots of planets are indigestible to Hive Fleet Leviathan

I thought maybe some Hive Fleets can devour metal, some Hive Fleets can't, but the above mostly focuses on Hive Fleet Leviathan and it has been shown to both consume and unable to consume metal.

So what's the verdict here? Can Tyranids nom Necrodermis? If baal and pyrovores are higher ranked sources then I think the answer is yes. But if Admech Codex and video games are higher ranked sources then I think the answer is no.
   
Made in us
Hardened Veteran Guardsman




Maybe it depends on what type of metals?

Some biologically useful metals like vanadium (V), chromium (Cr), manganese (Mn), iron (Fe), cobalt (Co), nickel (Ni), copper (Cu), zinc (Zn), molybdenum (Mo), and cadmium (Cd) are maybe sought out by the bugs to eat.

Then are some metals and isotopes that are not useful to them like plutonium-239, lead, cobalt-60, etc.

Therefore, the bugs would break apart almost everything, including necrons....eat the good stuff and leave the rest. Thus you would have a necron with a lot of their internals ripped out and eaten while the non useful stuff is strewn around.

So, the answer is that the tyranids DO eat metals in fairly large quantities to supply the whole hive fleet, but there are some metals that they don't eat and just leave on the battlefield.

Grey Knights 712 points Imperial Stormtroopers 3042 points Lamenters 1787 points Xenomorphs 995 points 1200 points + 1790 points 770 points 369 points of Imperial Guard to bolster the Sisters of Battle
Kain said: "This will surely end in tears for everyone involved. How very 40k."

 
   
Made in gb
Leader of the Sept







To quote the mighty Penny Arcade, you can eat lots of things that aren’t food

Please excuse any spelling errors. I use a tablet frequently and software keyboards are a pain!

Terranwing - w3;d1;l1
51st Dunedinw2;d0;l0
Cadre Coronal Afterglow w1;d0;l0 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





They might not eat it but must recognise it as a threat as it’s what the necrons are made from so they must have a way o destroying it, along with other non edible materials that get in their way when “devouring a planet”
   
Made in gb
Junior Officer with Laspistol





The Shire(s)

There also may be a spectrum- some metals and alloys could be very slow to digest, which could allow the recovery of useable augmetics (in the Ad Mech example) within a warzone timescale. However, given sufficient time (i.e. destruction of all resistance on the planet) the tyranids may be able to digest those augmetics.

Necrodermis is pretty tough stuff, but if anything could digest it, it would be tyranids (I imagine this would not be a quick process at all). On the other hand, we don't see carnifexes running around with necrodermic chitin, so clearly the tyranids have not been able to reproduce it en masse even if they can digest it.

 ChargerIIC wrote:
If algae farm paste with a little bit of your grandfather in it isn't Grimdark I don't know what is.
 
   
Made in gb
Decrepit Dakkanaut




UK

Tyranids appear to be able to eat anything, however it also appears that the rate at which they eat varies depending on the material. Biological mass tends to be the fastest for them to consume and re-use, whilst I would think that minerals and metals are much slower for them to convert into a useful material to work from.

Consuming a world can thus mean many different things from simply devouring all the organic biomatter; through to fully consuming the world down to the bedrock leaving nothing but a husk and sometimes the lore isn't quite clear on how much of a world was eaten.




My impression would be that Tyranids would likely devour Imperial or Ork or other living worlds down to the biomass level. There's no pressure for them to devour all the mineral and metal wealth of the world because the world is already basically useless to living creatures at that stage. Or at least requires a huge investment to use again.

Meanwhile I'd wager a Necron world they'd likely want to devour the metals as well to destroy the chance of the Necrons re-using the world.




Whilst Tyranids are described as being the great devourer its also interesting to note that they don't devour without thought. Indeed their devouring actions appear to focus on denying worlds to different races, shutting them down as a functional place to operate from whilst also restoring the hive between conquests. Necron worlds likely take them longer to "clear" in such a way as to remove the threat.

A Blog in Miniature

3D Printing, hobbying and model fun! 
   
Made in gb
Leader of the Sept







Elements are elements. Humans have various metallic compounds as part of our “biomass”. Calcium in bones, iron in blood. Maybe tyranids use aluminium and titanium compounds for their spacecraft exoskeletons.

Tyranids aren’t out there to stop other species using something, they are out there to devour and reproduce. The only reason to leave any part of a world behind is because the hive fleet has no use for that particular element, or the fleet carrying capacity for that material has been reached. With something like necrodermis, an exotic and complex material, perhaps the hive fleet sequesters it away as it views its existence as a threat, even if the hive fleet cannot make use of it. Or maybe it just breaks it down into its component elements and uses it like any other mineral feedstock. Then again, once the controlling intelligences have been destroyed does necrodermis pose a threat any more?

Please excuse any spelling errors. I use a tablet frequently and software keyboards are a pain!

Terranwing - w3;d1;l1
51st Dunedinw2;d0;l0
Cadre Coronal Afterglow w1;d0;l0 
   
Made in gb
Decrepit Dakkanaut




UK

 Flinty wrote:

Tyranids aren’t out there to stop other species using something, they are out there to devour and reproduce.


Yes and no I would say.

See Tyranids don't just feed and reproduce. They very clearly target regions with their feeding, they don't just accidentally start heading toward Space Marine founding worlds with their Swarms. Furthermore we've seen one hive fleet designed to fight Demons be fed worlds by another which pre-digests worlds and leaves them in a soup-state for the demon fighting fleet to feed from quickly - since you can't feed from demons because it all returns to the warp.

There's also the massive planet that they've built for purposes we don't yet know save that it projects an insanely huge "Shadow in the Warp"

A Blog in Miniature

3D Printing, hobbying and model fun! 
   
Made in no
Liche Priest Hierophant





Bergen

Tyranids devouer certainly. But it is not without a certain je ne sais quo. And they do not reproduce in the general sence. They use biomatter as building materials. And when the job is done it gets reabsorbed (unless it is a failed campaign.) But it is not reproducing as every other person unes the word.

   
Made in gb
Ridin' on a Snotling Pump Wagon






Well, there’s quite the question over how worthwhile a Hive Fleet Invasion of a Tomb World is.

If it’s a fully awakened Tomb World, already scoured of biological life? That’s probably a “no, not worth it at all”. And that’s because of what Necron weapons tend to do. Gauss in particular disintegrates it’s victim. So even if the Invasion is successful, it’s hard to see how the Hive Fleet benefits, as it can’t even recycle the biomass expended in the effort, and there’s little fresh raw material to be had.

If it’s a slumbering Tomb World? That’s a very different prospect, as they’re by no means lifeless and barren. Many are Imperial Worlds or otherwise populated.

As for them able to consume and therefore repurpose Necrodermis? Well, who knows. As a material it’s well beyond our ken, given its self repairing nature.

That also raises the question of what happens should say, a Haruspex scoff Warriors or Immortals. Sure there’ll be some damage done in the consumption, but enough to knock the victim properly off line? Seems doubtful, given they can pull themselves back together from Titan scale weapon strikes. That to me sounds like some very nasty indigestion waiting to happen. Like Drax in GOTG2.

Even if they can keep it down and break it down? Once it’s dissolved, it’s just raw materials. All the properties it held as a miracle of science are gone. And given the Hive Mind makes no use of any kind of mechanical contraption, I can’t see it being able to riddle out what makes Necrodermis, and then coming up with a biological equivalent. It certainly wouldn’t be able to reconstitute a digested Necrodermis.

   
Made in gb
Mad Gyrocopter Pilot





Northumberland

My old labrador once ate a piece of brick. She spent a nice long time grinding it down and then licking up the brick dust. I don't think it was particularly nutritious but she seemed to have a good time.

Tyranids aren't totally mindless organic machines, they rely on the power of synapses and control from the Hive Mind. So maybe the mind gets a kick out of killing Necrons even if they aren't nutritionally valuable. They are clearly a threat, in fact they are perhaps one of the biggest threats the Tyranids face seeing as how the Necron weaponry destroys organic material. If the Necrons take over, then the Tyranids starve. We know the nids react to threat and evolve to try and combat it, so presumably they will attack Necrons, they aren't going to leave them alone.

One and a half feet in the hobby


My Painting Log of various minis:
# Olthannon's Oscillating Orchard of Opportunity #

 
   
Made in gb
Ridin' on a Snotling Pump Wagon






Question there is what do they have to adapt with?

Canonically, concentrated Gauss strikes can disintegrate anything. Sure, a single rifle would take some time to take down even a moderately armoured APC - but it can still get there in the end, with each strike or beam stripping those atoms away, regardless of the targets own properties.

No material is known to be resistant to that, which suggests no biological means could be conjured to be resistant. Indeed the fact it’s separating out the atoms explains the technology’s deadliness, as really only density of material is any defence.

There’s nothing biological for them to consume and the hive mind to analyse, and the Nids fallen to Gauss aren’t exactly around for analysis of the wounds etc. Whilst that’s not to say adaptation is impossible, it’s exceptionally difficult.

There’s even a major danger to the Hive Fleet, given how vulnerable they are once they start consuming a world. Given how deep Tomb Complexes are buried, and that Necrons don’t need access tunnels? There’s seemingly little to stop a patient Phaeron battening down the hatches, then waiting for the consumption process to begin (by which time and planetside warrior constructs are either gone or devoured in turn)… Soon as it’s that time? Launch your attack, wreck the Hive Ships when they’ve got their pants down.

   
Made in no
Liche Priest Hierophant





Bergen

I would like to take the time to post this picture of Scaly-foot gastropod. It is a sea slug that use metal as armour.

And also the Acanthaspis petax, the assassin bug that use corpses as camuflage.

Now there you have an awsome idea for a deathleaper.





[Thumb - aroured slugg.jpg]

[Thumb - 20120508123104assassin-bug-small.jpg]

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/10/25 17:27:05


   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




Tyranid eating habits have been inconsistent.

In some lore, the authors seem to limit it strictly to (usually carbon-based) life with Tyranids outright avoiding Necron worlds.

In other lore, Tyranids eat everything down to the crust and leave barely an atmosphere.

In another bit of lore, Tyranids will sometimes leave worlds before entirely consuming them in order to possibly return in the event the hive fleet requires reinvigoration.

Logically, Tyranids should be able to consume metal. Even humans have trace elements of metal in us, like iron which helps oxygen bind to red blood cells. It's likely that Tyranids have even higher concentration of mundane and exotic metals in them to account for the toughness of some of their creatures, especially the big boys.

On the other hand, if Tyranids were interested in metals, there are far easier ways to get them than through opportunistic feeding on population centers. A trip through your average asteroid belt should provide them with enough easily accessible metals for pretty much anything they'd need.

And the last thing to keep in mind is that Tyranids don't seem to convert each new world's resources into new tyranids. If they did, a single world should be spawning Behemoth sized splinter fleets. Authors have somewhat touched on this, saying the excess materials go elsewhere (theorizing that it could be traveling through the warp to hungrier swarms that have yet to arrive).

So in short, the lore is inconsistent and there's enough of it to support one position or another. So, for example, if you're asking this question because you want to thematically set a battlefield on a post-tyrannoformed world and want to know if you can use metal buildings, I'd say go for it. If you're wanting to set up a Necron vs. Tyranid conflict, there's plenty of ways to do that as well--Necrons experimenting on GSC's to see if they can create a transmittable strain of the pariah gene, Tyranids being drawn to a particular material or power source being utilized by the necrons, etc.
   
Made in gb
Decrepit Dakkanaut




UK

I've long thought that the Tyranids we encounter are not simply feeding. As noted there are lots of easier ways they could get vast amounts of food.


My pet theory right now is that what Tyranids we encounter now are basically a dedicated invasion force. Now it might be the main bulk or just the exploratory and initial wave - that's impossible to say - but right now its an invasion force.
This explains why they focus more upon resource denial to others rather than on purely feeding. Instead of going for rich gas giants, they focus on feeding on worlds. Denying those worlds to various races they encounter.

Along the way there's some specialisation - a fleet that encounters lots of Necrons is likely to devour the metals more readily whilst a hive that fights demons is likely to operate on the thin in resources, but might gain support from pre-digesting fleets attacking other worlds.



All of this I think is a bid for the Tyranids to preserve resources in the long run.


They aren't simply feeding, my guess is that the invasion force feeds as it needs to destroy all viable opposition and all chance of opposition arising. Hence why it makes huge strikes for Chapter Worlds rather than just taking easy meals on the fringes; why it builds a world to project a vast Shadow in the Warp to push back Chaos.


I think behind that there's another strain of Tyranids which are feeders. Perhaps they digest slower or in a way that wastes less energy when consuming. More vulnerable feeders that are designed to sweep in, devour everything and then hold that resource in storage for the long cold travel through the gulf of space between Galaxies.


Also don't forget some of the lore will have variation because of adaptation through time. Early Hive Fleets never encountered necrons so didn't need to worry about living metal armies, if they stripped a world of biomass and atmosphere its basically useless to all other races without insane investment.

A Blog in Miniature

3D Printing, hobbying and model fun! 
   
Made in gb
Ridin' on a Snotling Pump Wagon






Tends to depend on the planet in question.

A Tomb World can be completely lifeless, without water or even an atmosphere. Whilst yes, The Hive Mind will need minerals, that’s still not an appealing meal, because they’d only get minerals. It’s a bit like turning down that pot of Hummus in your fridge, because you can still make Beans on Toast for your lunch.

If the Tomb World is otherwise occupied, or at least has its own native flora and fauna? There’s more into it.

We also know from the Cawl novel that the Hive Mind doesn’t completely consume everything. Some stuff is just too deeply buried, and so not resource effective to extract. It’s this last reserves that Cawl believes can be used to regenerate the planet, with a little technical know how.

There’s also the Big Question of what the Hive Mind actually needs. Steel for instance isn’t naturally occurring. It needs to be made using Iron and Carbons and that. If we assume it’s digested or otherwise rendered down? Is it steel anymore, or is it souped into Iron and Carbons? Can the Hive Mind then turn said Iron and Carbons back into steel? Does it have any real need to do that, or does it just make do with things at the element level?

That’s what we’d need to know when it comes to them scoffing Necrodermis. After all, Necrodermis is highly resistant to, well, pretty much everything, but that’s not the same as immune/indestructible.

Let’s consider human stomach acid. It’s PH is anywhere between 1 and 3 according to Wikipedia (dammit Jim I’m an idiot, not a Biologist!), so it’s pretty potent stuff. Given time? It can almost certainly dissolve metals - though I don’t think we’re setup to gain from that nutritionally. If we can do it, Tyranids Goop Soup certainly can. It just takes longer than dissolving flesh or vegetable matter.

If we eat something unpalatable or nasty? We’re likely to fire it out of one end or the other.

I think we can reasonably assume, given their stupidly advanced biology and lack of squeamishness, that a Tyranid fleet might have specialist organisms (of any given size, now I think about it) specifically for digesting minerals. I envisage it as the Hive Ships sooking up all the gruel, then either internal or external other gribblies set out about sorting it. They then either eat the dodgier stuff in turn, or suckle it from the Hive Ship.

But if a Hive Fleet needs relatively scant mineral resources, there’s little incentive to seek it out specifically. And any suitably complex and resistant mineral content (such as Necrodermis) might just be ditched, as it’s constituent parts can be obtained with far less effort.

   
 
Forum Index » 40K Background
Go to: