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I've been wanting to see a BL series on Badab wars for a really long time, given how it's one of the coolest conflincts in fluff and the fact it involves the most badass chapter ever, the Minotaurs.

It's absolutely atrocious that their only appearance is in so, what gives? Do you want a series on Badab wars or just a Minotaur book? What would be your reason for reading this series? Fall of Astral claws? Secessionists fighting for their dear life? Carcharodons and Minotaurs wrecking sh*t? Some stealthy Raptor action? Write down below if you would read this series and if you ever expect it to show up.

FW did their Badab book series and all GW needs to do is make them available as an MTO run.
There's really no point in making a BL series because the conflict is already well documented.

Yeah Badab war is such an iconic piece of lore, very well written in addition. It definitely needs to be made into a BL series
Maybe they don't want to shoot all theirs shots at the same time and wait for the end of the Heresy ?

The Badab War isn't that sprawling, there are a lot of chapters but many of them play relatively bit parts. Like, I'm 100% not saying there's no potential, with so many parties in the major factions, but, like, I feel like the Badab books cover plenty the way they are. They leave a lot to the imagination while indicating a very specific sort of conflict.

Writing as someone whose central army is Astral Claws, no, I don't think every detail needs illumination, some stuff can be left vague. Sure, reference it or even have episodes during the war, but what about an Astral Claws book written about them before Huron's rise, or the Lamenters' crusade after the war with references back etc. etc.? 100% don't have any desire for a 10-book series where each chapter gets some time in the spotlight or whatever.

Those on the "pro" side of the discussion, what do you think a BL series would add that hasn't already been done in the FW books?

 Gert wrote:
Those on the "pro" side of the discussion, what do you think a BL series would add that hasn't already been done in the FW books?

What did the BL Horus Heresy series brought that the FW black campaign book didn't ?

 godardc wrote:

 Gert wrote:
Those on the "pro" side of the discussion, what do you think a BL series would add that hasn't already been done in the FW books?

What did the BL Horus Heresy series brought that the FW black campaign book didn't ?

The Cabal
Perpetuals
A magic sword turned Horus mean
...

 godardc wrote:
What did the BL Horus Heresy series brought that the FW black campaign book didn't ?

The BL series is the reason the Black Books exist. The novels made the stories before there was a GW-produced HH game and introduced people to a monumental event and period that hadn't actually been covered beyond some names and a general premise of a civil war. The HH Black Books exist as rulebooks first and then as background sources. The background is amazing but the point of Horus Heresy Book 1: Betrayal was to make a HH game, not present a story that had already been told.
The Badab books however are not this. They have rules, yes, but the background covers a previously uncovered event where they do it well and in good detail. There doesn't need to be a book explaining Huron's motives because we know what they were already. There doesn't need to be a book to explain why X, Y, and Z Chapters got involved because we already know why.
Now, an unexplored event like the Age of Apostasy, the Astropath Wars, or the Nova Terra Interregnum, would be a good basis for a BL series.

 Gert wrote:
Those on the "pro" side of the discussion, what do you think a BL series would add that hasn't already been done in the FW books?

Primarily some actual novels on the participants of this war, namely Minotaurs, Lamenters, Mantis warriors, Executioners, etc. None of this chapters have a book dedicated to them, unless it's some small cameo appearance/short story or an honourable mention. What better setting for that then the Badab wars? Surely a book on Lamenters' heroic defense against Minotaur's relentless "hordes" would appeal to the fans. The Carcharodon's systematic annihilation of civilian population on worlds defended by Mantis warrior's? I think reading about struggles of secessionists chapter's and their view on Imperium of man would be interesting and probably expanded beyond FW books. A general overview in FW books is one thing, and an actual BL books is other.

There's way too many Blood angels, Imperial Fists, Space Wolves, etc books already. It wouldn't really hurt to expand on to some other options, as shown with Carcharodons books. Sure, these chapters are nowhere near as popular as founding legion's, but there are still fans who would like to read a book or two on them. I was also a bit misleading with my title, this isn't really just a thread about Badab war, it's a thread that discusses possibility of having future novels on chapters that participated in the Badab war. Whether it's actual Badab war series ( which is what I would really like but it doesn't have to be ) or stand-alone novels on some other conflicts with these chapters would be fine as well.

My view is that I don't see BL as being "for" detailing unexplored parts of the setting. It's just for writing good stories set in the 40K and Fantasy universes.

So I'm happy with a zoomed in perspective on a conflict I already know the broad strokes of (Helsreach is an example of this) or a brand new campaign (the various Sabbat Worlds books) or a zoomed in look at a particular group (the Night Lords books), as long as they're well written. I'd much rather have a well written Badab War book than a poorly written series exploring some unknown conflict, and vice versa.

For me, what the topic of the book is is less important than the quality of the writing. I'll probably enjoy anything that's well written, in fact I'd say one of the major impacts of reading BL is to make me like stuff by giving me a well realised, close up view on it.

 Gert wrote:
Those on the "pro" side of the discussion, what do you think a BL series would add that hasn't already been done in the FW books?

insight into who the major figures where, what they where thinking etc comes to mind.

Firstly, thanks for the replies. It was a genuine question and its good to see genuine answers.
Secondly, know that these replies are not meant as harsh criticism or "I'm right, you're wrong". I'm not looking to start any beef


Better would be a book where the story is focussed entirely on the Chapter in question rather than a vague focus with a lot going on in the background. The Lamenters and Mantis Warriors both suffered heavily during the war, why not a story where they struggle to rebuild/fight effectively in the post-Rift galaxy with the gift of Primaris just beyond their reach due to their past crimes, perhaps with other Imperials watching over their shoulders? Why do we need books that are essentially snuff films?
And just to reiterate, the FW books are a detailed overview. It's not like the GW stuff where it lightly glazes over what happens in battles, the Badab books begin years before the conflict with Huron's rise to power and chronicle the events very well.


In fairness, the first thing you said was that you wanted a series on the Badab War because it has the Minotaurs in it.
The problem with Space Marine books is that there is a finite amount of stories to tell with them and there are about 100 Chapters to use. I think a better use of Chapters that are found in the Badab War would be to use them in the continuing narrative of the Dawn of Fire rather than go back to a story people already know well enough.

BrianDavion wrote:
insight into who the major figures where, what they where thinking etc comes to mind.

We do already have that though. Alan Bligh did his best work with the Badab books, showing the motivations, reactions, feelings, and goals of nearly every Chapter or organisation involved in the conflict.

Firstly, thanks for the replies. It was a genuine question and its good to see genuine answers.
Secondly, know that these replies are not meant as harsh criticism or "I'm right, you're wrong". I'm not looking to start any beef

Of course, we are all mature here ( aside for the fact we are into plastic/resin toys

Better would be a book where the story is focussed entirely on the Chapter in question rather than a vague focus with a lot going on in the background. The Lamenters and Mantis Warriors both suffered heavily during the war, why not a story where they struggle to rebuild/fight effectively in the post-Rift galaxy with the gift of Primaris just beyond their reach due to their past crimes, perhaps with other Imperials watching over their shoulders? Why do we need books that are essentially snuff films?
And just to reiterate, the FW books are a detailed overview. It's not like the GW stuff where it lightly glazes over what happens in battles, the Badab books begin years before the conflict with Huron's rise to power and chronicle the events very well.

As I said in the OP, I wouldn't mind something unconnected to Badab war that focuses on expanding lore of Minotaurs and others. But I would also like Badab war because there's not that many astartes vs renegade astartes books out there ( not counting Chaos ) and because Badab war is unique due to Astral claws' falls to Chaos and their manipulation of other secessionists chapters.

What I meant by detailed overview, I meant in sense of literal description from the point of characters of said chapters, their thoughts, feelings, battle tactics, flavour and so on. For example, the fluff tells you that the boarding battles btw Minotaurs and Lamenters are some of the most brutal ever recorded, but it doesn't go into the meat of things as to why is it so. I want to see a fight for every corridor, or the details on how Minotaurs bullishly ( no pun intended ) push through and eventually overwhelm the Lamenters. Their thoughts on Lamenters, how they see them, do they consider them worthy, so on. I want to see how other chapters react to the arrival of Carcharodons, their thoughts on them, even better, how do Minotaurs see Carcharodons and vice versa? Unless there is some other badab war book series, there is no such thing in the FW series. There's general overview, with description of battles ( again from a bird point of view ) or better said, from a strategical perspective, not tactical.

We'll have to agree to disagree I suppose.

Now, to push a topic a bit further, which battle/war do you think deserves to be written and that it includes Minotaurs or some of the other chapters?

The orpheus campaign was left hanging.

Deadnight wrote:
The orpheus campaign was left hanging.

That would be an awesome book. We all want that Asterion Moloc vs Kultlakh match. Anyone who can bring a Necron Overlord to his knees is in top three chapter masters.

The FW Badab war books are quite good, as they don't go all in on the character motivations as a novel would, so you can still partly make your mind up. It is also a very pragmatic campaign on both sides, it's a more realistic conflict in this regards as attrition is a serious player in the campaign, especially from the mid point onwards where the imperium only won due to their ability to rotate new forces in and out.

Finally, whilst it is a pragmatic war, it doesn't get away from the arrogant stupidity that the machine of the imperium brings to the table all so often.

 spiralingcadaver wrote:
Sure, reference it or even have episodes during the war, but what about an Astral Claws book written about them before Huron's rise, or the Lamenters' crusade after the war with references back etc. etc.?

I like the sound of the second idea - especially if the period it covers ends before we hit the Primaris stuff, as it leaves the Lamenters in a tight spot.