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Made in us
Wicked Canoptek Wraith




Do Ork Fungi just absorb biomass in their vicinity and grow and if there are no biomass, Orks cannot grow/populate?
Do Orks just magically get bigger and increase in biomass just from fighting? Or are they bound by the biomass of the planet?

How do Orks and Biomass work?
   
Made in fr
Fresh-Faced New User




Hmmmm, good question. I'm imagine orks can only live on worlds that are at least marginally habitable, say anything from Tattooine to Hoth, as a well known example.

Since orks have what amounts to smart genetics that rapidly adapt to need, like when new vaxxine squigs just start turning up when orks encounter a new disease i imagine that the squig population of orks will immediately begin assessing a new world they arrive on and find what biomass is availble, and turn it into edible fungi the orks can eat, or even become new food crops that can process nutrients from whatever resources the planet has.

Also, tho orks maybe don't want to think about it, i'm sure the squig ecosystem 'recycles' ork waste into new foodstuffs for them, and i don't think orks have a problem eating their own when necessary.
   
Made in gb
Preparing the Invasion of Terra






Orks only need barely habitable environments to live in, it's why they can survive on Space Hulks where life support is at a minimum.
The fungus that Orks grow from doesn't require much in the way of nutrients and is extremely resilient. It also provides literally everything the Orks could possibly need in a symbiotic ecosystem. The Orkoid species come from the fungus, which also provides a rudimentary food source, and when they die they release spores that in turn make more fungus. The resilience of the fungus is why it's so hard to get rid of an Ork infestation after an invasion.
Orks getting bigger from fighting is simple, the more fights they survive the more muscle they develop which increases their size, sometimes they get smart as well. Think of it as continuous intense workouts.
Biomass is just a catch-all for organic matter used when discussing the Tyranids, it has no relation to Orks beyond Orks being organic.
   
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Ridin' on a Snotling Pump Wagon






The spore reproduction thing is also just an in-universe theory.

   
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Preparing the Invasion of Terra






Pretty sure there's an in-universe book from Ork perspective of a Runtherd telling stories to shrooms to make them grow big.
   
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Longtime Dakkanaut




roboemperor wrote:
Do Ork Fungi just absorb biomass in their vicinity and grow and if there are no biomass, Orks cannot grow/populate?
Do Orks just magically get bigger and increase in biomass just from fighting? Or are they bound by the biomass of the planet?

How do Orks and Biomass work?


Fungus, by nature, cannot create biomass from inorganic components (like plants do),so they are producers. We can assume that the fungus doesn't entirely displace the primary producers of the planet, or that there are photosynthetic components to the fungal ecosystem (e.g. lichen), or something entirely different (chemotrophs). Orks eat the fungus, or eat creatures that have eaten the fungus (squigs, grots, or snots)
   
Made in us
Stabbin' Skarboy





Orks just kinda show up anywhere, they’re orks

"Us Blood Axes hav lernt' a lot from da humies. How best ta kill 'em, fer example."
— Korporal Snagbrat of the Dreadblade Kommandos 
   
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U.k

ORKS eat, mostly shrooms but not entirely. They then crap. Mushrooms grows in the crap. Orks eat them.

They also have been shown to eat people and pretty much anything that is available. Grots, humans, anything really.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Yeah I doubt cuisine is something Orks are bothered about. They probably just eat whatever they can chew and hope it comes out the other end.

You have to assume that a certain amount of fat, protein and carbs are needed to build all the muscle but to be honest I thought the ork ecosystem created lots of squigs to put at the bottom of the food chain
   
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Are Tyranids that only eat orks considered vegan?
   
Made in us
Stabbin' Skarboy





mrFickle wrote:
Yeah I doubt cuisine is something Orks are bothered about. They probably just eat whatever they can chew and hope it comes out the other end.

You have to assume that a certain amount of fat, protein and carbs are needed to build all the muscle but to be honest I thought the ork ecosystem created lots of squigs to put at the bottom of the food chain


You’d be surprised, one ork delicacy is juicy squigs, essentially wagyu squigs found way in the bottom of the drops.

"Us Blood Axes hav lernt' a lot from da humies. How best ta kill 'em, fer example."
— Korporal Snagbrat of the Dreadblade Kommandos 
   
Made in us
Maniacal Gibbering Madboy



octarius sector squishin bugz

Fungus don't need a lot to grow, we can find fungus in caves growing on rocks. What really matters for the greenskin ecosystem are squigs. Squigs are pooly understood creatures. Everytime the IoM checks on them they find new species of squigs popping up. Squigs are highly adaptable and can fit any and all ecosystems. Got a world full of metal? Don't worry, we have squig species that will eat that metal and make it a place where greenskin fungus can thrive. What about a nightmare world were everything is out to eat you? Good thing squigs are some of the fiercest predators in the galaxy.

So the answer to your question is squigs. From squigs comes all greenskin life.

orkz are da best!!!
 
   
Made in de
Battlefield Tourist






Nuremberg

Orks are not the same as terrestrial fungi. They are symbiotes, more like lichen. This means they can photosynthesis. So while they have fungal characteristics (relatively undifferentiated tissues in their fruiting bodies, chitinous rather than cellulose based cell walls, mycelia and other fungal adaptations for absorbing nutrients from dead material) they can also behave as plants and form a fairly complete basis for an ecosystem. I think this is really cool, because it means that Orks can colonize almost any kind of planet with sunlight or nutrients and essentially terraform it by locking in carbon to form an organic layer in the soil.

"orks are fungus" is a simplication and also a bit of visual language for making terrain or other stuff, but really they're more like lichen.

I think it's probable that Ork "fungus" can even photosynthesize with other gases than CO2, so an even greater number of planets could be colonized, because they were designed to do that.

Edit to add: And this would then mean different pigments being produced in their skin, leading to more brownish, reddish or even purplish skin colours for the Orks, because the green skin colour was because of the photosynthetic pigments in their blood. In different atmospheres, different wavelengths of light would be more prevalent, leading to different colours, like how seaweed is often brown because blue light penetrates water better.

And also, Orks probably don't actually need to eat that much for their size because they're constantly making their own sugar from the air they breath in, and they're probably really resistant to suffocation assuming their respiration works like ours. Chitinous cell walls would also make their cells really resistant to all kinds of damage, so it's not unlikely they could survive vacuum exposure if their lungs could cope with the pressure differences.

Biologically, Orks make way more sense than Tyranids or especially Kroot, and I've always really enjoyed that about them since the "orkosystem" background was introduced in Gorkamorak. I've never liked the "tyranids incorporate information from stuff they eat" background because it really doesn't make a lot of sense, and it makes even less sense with kroot. The amount of time I've spent trying to figure out how the hell that could work is...non trivial, for such a totally trivial thing!

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/11/19 09:25:44


   
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West Michigan, deep in Whitebread, USA

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
The spore reproduction thing is also just an in-universe theory.


Definitely an in-universe fact. All the way back into late-2nd edition, when the skirmish game Gorkamorka came out. It explained in detail about the reproductive fungal cycle, and such things were also repeated in early 3rd edition when Orks got revamped to their modern appearance, I believe.



"By this point I'm convinced 100% that every single race in the 40k universe have somehow tapped into the ork ability to just have their tech work because they think it should."  
   
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U.k

 AegisGrimm wrote:
 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
The spore reproduction thing is also just an in-universe theory.


Definitely an in-universe fact. All the way back into late-2nd edition, when the skirmish game Gorkamorka came out. It explained in detail about the reproductive fungal cycle, and such things were also repeated in early 3rd edition when Orks got revamped to their modern appearance, I believe.


Latest codex sets it back as a theory. They seem to be pleasantly dialling up the ambiguity this edition.
[Thumb - 1DB61347-D5AD-4075-BD23-B655508E6CE0.jpeg]

   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut







Andykp wrote:
 AegisGrimm wrote:
 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
The spore reproduction thing is also just an in-universe theory.


Definitely an in-universe fact. All the way back into late-2nd edition, when the skirmish game Gorkamorka came out. It explained in detail about the reproductive fungal cycle, and such things were also repeated in early 3rd edition when Orks got revamped to their modern appearance, I believe.


Latest codex sets it back as a theory. They seem to be pleasantly dialling up the ambiguity this edition.


It's like you highlighted two misleading paragraphs and then decided to ignore the very next one that disagrees with the point you're trying to make.
"This last theory bears much credence".
   
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U.k

 solkan wrote:
Andykp wrote:
 AegisGrimm wrote:
 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
The spore reproduction thing is also just an in-universe theory.


Definitely an in-universe fact. All the way back into late-2nd edition, when the skirmish game Gorkamorka came out. It explained in detail about the reproductive fungal cycle, and such things were also repeated in early 3rd edition when Orks got revamped to their modern appearance, I believe.


Latest codex sets it back as a theory. They seem to be pleasantly dialling up the ambiguity this edition.


It's like you highlighted two misleading paragraphs and then decided to ignore the very next one that disagrees with the point you're trying to make.
"This last theory bears much credence".


Bearing much credence isn’t the same as being an undeniable fact. It goes on to say that it bears much credence because the fact ORKS keep coming back. But nowhere does it say ORKS are definitely fungal and definitely have the lifecycle of a fungus. It deliberately casts doubt on the matter.

Doubt is good. In 40K, facts are bad and boring. And luckily the whole section of the codex makes it clear they do not know for certain how ORKS reproduce. So mad doc has called this one correctly
   
Made in us
The Conquerer






Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios

 Gert wrote:
Orks only need barely habitable environments to live in, it's why they can survive on Space Hulks where life support is at a minimum.
The fungus that Orks grow from doesn't require much in the way of nutrients and is extremely resilient. It also provides literally everything the Orks could possibly need in a symbiotic ecosystem. The Orkoid species come from the fungus, which also provides a rudimentary food source, and when they die they release spores that in turn make more fungus. The resilience of the fungus is why it's so hard to get rid of an Ork infestation after an invasion.
Orks getting bigger from fighting is simple, the more fights they survive the more muscle they develop which increases their size, sometimes they get smart as well. Think of it as continuous intense workouts.
Biomass is just a catch-all for organic matter used when discussing the Tyranids, it has no relation to Orks beyond Orks being organic.


This.

The Orkoid fungus is actually even capable of creating a biosphere on an otherwise uninhabitable world. A rocky world with a thin atmosphere could, if given enough time, be terraformed by the orkoid fungus to have a barely breathable atmosphere and allow more complex orkoid life to begin to appear.

Short of a planet that is devoid of all water and base nutrients, orkoid fungus can take hold. The fungus would break down the rocky surface to create soil which could further nourish more fungus which eventually would lead to orks. Assuming there is sufficient water present, nothing is impossible.

Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines

Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.

MURICA!!! IN SPESS!!! 
   
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U.k

 Grey Templar wrote:
 Gert wrote:
Orks only need barely habitable environments to live in, it's why they can survive on Space Hulks where life support is at a minimum.
The fungus that Orks grow from doesn't require much in the way of nutrients and is extremely resilient. It also provides literally everything the Orks could possibly need in a symbiotic ecosystem. The Orkoid species come from the fungus, which also provides a rudimentary food source, and when they die they release spores that in turn make more fungus. The resilience of the fungus is why it's so hard to get rid of an Ork infestation after an invasion.
Orks getting bigger from fighting is simple, the more fights they survive the more muscle they develop which increases their size, sometimes they get smart as well. Think of it as continuous intense workouts.
Biomass is just a catch-all for organic matter used when discussing the Tyranids, it has no relation to Orks beyond Orks being organic.


This.

The Orkoid fungus is actually even capable of creating a biosphere on an otherwise uninhabitable world. A rocky world with a thin atmosphere could, if given enough time, be terraformed by the orkoid fungus to have a barely breathable atmosphere and allow more complex orkoid life to begin to appear.

Short of a planet that is devoid of all water and base nutrients, orkoid fungus can take hold. The fungus would break down the rocky surface to create soil which could further nourish more fungus which eventually would lead to orks. Assuming there is sufficient water present, nothing is impossible.


You got a source for this?
   
Made in us
Stabbin' Skarboy





It’s just a thing that happens, orks have even regrown exterminatused planets.

"Us Blood Axes hav lernt' a lot from da humies. How best ta kill 'em, fer example."
— Korporal Snagbrat of the Dreadblade Kommandos 
   
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Preparing the Invasion of Terra






Its one of those "too many to count" types of things. When Orks are presented they tend to live on garbage worlds with horrible conditions and then thrive. The more deadly the world the happier and stronger the Orks get.
   
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U.k

I am always dubious when things are presented as facts. Even in the latest codex the fungal reproduction thing is just a theory and not a fact.

I don’t recall ever reading of them terraforming a lifeless planet and creating atmosphere etc.

They can thrive in horrible conditions and are very hardy but that’s different from creating breathable air and things.
   
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Preparing the Invasion of Terra






Oh right no I've never seen the terraforming bit, apart from like basically forcing a planet into submission semi-metaphorically.
   
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U.k

 Gert wrote:
Oh right no I've never seen the terraforming bit, apart from like basically forcing a planet into submission semi-metaphorically.


Yeah, me neither.
   
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Maniacal Gibbering Madboy



octarius sector squishin bugz

Andykp wrote:

I don’t recall ever reading of them terraforming a lifeless planet and creating atmosphere etc.

They can thrive in horrible conditions and are very hardy but that’s different from creating breathable air and things.


What has been stated is that Orks have been found on planets and planetoids without any atmosphere to speak of. Some of these planets had exterminatus done to them and after sweeps on the planet it was reported that there were signs of ork activities found on the surface.

Now it was never stated that the ork ecosytems created living environements or if these orks were advanced enough that they had created there own atmospheres. We don't even really know if the orks need air. In the Infinite and the Divine we know that orks have lungs but even Trazyn hesitated on answering if they required oxygen to breath.

Terraforming an entire planet has yet to be expressley stated in the lore. Knowing orks though, I would not push it outside the realm of possibilty for their race. Though I am sure that if orks can do some form of terraforming it would explain why so many ork communities are found in asteroid belts.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2021/12/04 21:51:39


orkz are da best!!!
 
   
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Battlefield Tourist






Nuremberg

Orks are more like lichen than fungus, because they can photosynthesize. They're explicitly symbiotes of that sort from their earliest descriptions. Lichens really can 'terraform' bare rock. They can make nutrients out of the air and supplement it with stuff pulled out of their substrate. They're incredible survivors.

Now, I think terraforming a planet with no atmosphere is unlikely. But I also think it's very unlikely that any large terrestrial planet would not have a gas envelope. The composition of that envelope might be pretty useless for earth style vertebrates, but any large mass is going to have a layer of gas around it. Oxygen and carbon are products of the fusion cycle of all stars on their main sequence, and are therefore among the most abundant elements in the universe. It's entirely probable that a lot of barren planets have low amounts of O2 and high amounts of CO2. Primordial earth was like that, and mars is currently like that. If orks photosynthesise (and I've read background since 2e explaining that photosynthetic algae is why they're green) then I reckon they could live on a 'barren' mars or primordial earth like planet by converting atmospheric CO2 into oxygen for respiration as plants do. They'd probably be very sluggish at night as their access to oxygen dropped, but it's also likely they'd be producing an excess of oxygen during the day. Their associated fungus groves would be doing likewise. Over time, this would convert a mostly CO2 based atmosphere to something like our earth atmosphere, after all that's basically what the evolution of photosynthetic algae on earth did, essentially 'terraforming' the planet by drastically altering the oxgyen balance of the atmosphere. I don't think it's too much of a stretch to say an engineered species like the orks could photosynthesise with non CO2 molecules like SO2 or NO2 or whatever. For sure, if there was just no atmosphere and nothing but bare rock, they probablt couldn't do this, but that's only gonna be the case for tiny asteroids and stuff, not proper planets. Even after exterminatus there's still an atmosphere, it's not like burning stuff makes it vanish, it just rearranges the molecules.

Man, orks are so cool. The ecology geek in me just makes me grin when I think of them.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/12/04 22:13:47


   
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U.k

There are some giant leaps of logic in there based on things that are only theorised about ORKS, not facts at all.

In the latest codex the things we “know” about ORKS are played down and are just theories, some better than others. So the current lore doesn’t back up any of these leaps of faith.

Now if we hark back to when ORK lore was great and in depth, the holy book of Waaargh ORKS then there is even less evidence to support your ideas.

The algal thing was just in the skin and ORKS needed to eat, in fact they had a series of outer stomachs and a second heart called a heart-stomach that aided digestion. I believe the idea they could photo-synthesise came later.

Not only that, they needed air, this was evident because to travel in space they would wrap a hulk in a force field with a bubble of atmosphere to travel to space in. So there is no real evidence to support your claims, they are nice ideas but a bit of a stretch.
   
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Nuremberg

Yeah, I'm aware I'm logically extrapolating from what's presented, that's the fun of 40K background!

As to the algae thing, AFAIK it's in their blood, which is present throughout their bodies. I'd agree, any nutrient provided by photosynthesis is likely to be just a supplement for any actual up and running around Ork, because photosynthesis is a slow process and orks expend a lot of energy. So they'd need to eat as well. But the photosynthesis is more for their "orkology" of fungus groves and so on that sprouts up on any planet with orks on it. That's a ready-made food supply for orks wherever they go, and I'm sort of imagining that it takes a while before the "orkology" starts producing Orks anyway, first building up their biomass from the atmosphere and substrate.

By definition though, algae can photosynthesis, and algae-fungus symbiotes are lichens on earth, so I'm extrapolating from their properties to imagine the properties of Ork ecosystems.

Gorkamorka has details about the Ork reproductive cycle that have never been directly contradicted, and I like to believe they are true. If recent codices cast doubt on that, I actually think that's cool, that leaves room for other players to have different interpretations or conceptions of Orks and that's great for the game.

And yeah, I didn't say they wouldn't need an atmosphere, just that it needn't initially be breathable by humans in my opinion. I'm imagining the Ork "terraforming" as taking hundreds of years at minimum, probably closer to a thousand years to produce a liveable environment even for Orks on a primordial planet. So it's no real use to them in space, but it might make space travel easier as Orks would naturally recycle respiratory byproducts like CO2 without needing any particular tech to do so. But they'd definitely need to trap some gas for them to breath in their ships even in my version of how things work.

To me this all makes sense with the idea of Orks as an engineered species of independent warriors designed for galactic domination. Them being incredibly robust survivors that bring their terraforming tech with them in their genetic material is just awesome for that kind of Sci Fi idea and I love it. A lot more than the stupid "orks believe it so it's true" background, anyway!

   
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U.k

And it’s ace that you like all that, I love ORKS too and agree ambiguity is only a good thing in the 40K fluff. For me, your theories are a bit too much but they don’t contradict anything “canon” (hate that word in 40K), and sound like the musings of a xenos biologis. And could not agree more with the idea of ORKS being stupid. They produce some of the finest tech in the galaxy, they are super advanced and clearly engineered to survive and thrive.

I am very old school in my lore beliefs, and if it’s in Waaargh ORKS it’s gospel to me. So the algae will always just be in the skin to me, but newer books have moved it about.

I like the way they are doing the back ground this edition. No definites, lots of maybes. And don’t rule out the older stuff. Works for me.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/12/06 00:18:11


 
   
Made in us
The Conquerer






Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios

Andykp wrote:
 Grey Templar wrote:
 Gert wrote:
Orks only need barely habitable environments to live in, it's why they can survive on Space Hulks where life support is at a minimum.
The fungus that Orks grow from doesn't require much in the way of nutrients and is extremely resilient. It also provides literally everything the Orks could possibly need in a symbiotic ecosystem. The Orkoid species come from the fungus, which also provides a rudimentary food source, and when they die they release spores that in turn make more fungus. The resilience of the fungus is why it's so hard to get rid of an Ork infestation after an invasion.
Orks getting bigger from fighting is simple, the more fights they survive the more muscle they develop which increases their size, sometimes they get smart as well. Think of it as continuous intense workouts.
Biomass is just a catch-all for organic matter used when discussing the Tyranids, it has no relation to Orks beyond Orks being organic.


This.

The Orkoid fungus is actually even capable of creating a biosphere on an otherwise uninhabitable world. A rocky world with a thin atmosphere could, if given enough time, be terraformed by the orkoid fungus to have a barely breathable atmosphere and allow more complex orkoid life to begin to appear.

Short of a planet that is devoid of all water and base nutrients, orkoid fungus can take hold. The fungus would break down the rocky surface to create soil which could further nourish more fungus which eventually would lead to orks. Assuming there is sufficient water present, nothing is impossible.


You got a source for this?


5th edition or possibly 4th codex.

But it would be a natural byproduct of the orkoid fungus's process. We know it is photosynthetic, which means it would be creating oxygen over time. So even without a direct source, we can assume they can do this much.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/12/08 05:35:40


Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines

Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.

MURICA!!! IN SPESS!!! 
   
 
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