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Made in us
Intoxicated Centigor





Hello. I see them on the GW site but having issues really finding things showing tactics on them or if they are playable in 9th as a legal list. Would anyone be able to guide me to those answers?

I know I mentioned before I was looking to play something and said DA(Deathwing) but I started leaning way more towards Eldar especially with hopes of Aspect warriors being updated. I also like some of the DE line and was thinking Ynnari(even if bad) would be fun to work on and play.
   
Made in gb
Executing Exarch





I think they got a WD update a couple of years back

Long story short, besides the Avatar its a faction in fairly dire state having to give up CWE. DE or Harly faction bonus' for ones that are very conditional and uncooked (likewise with strats) really isn't worth the effort, and I think you cant even stick the Avatar in DE lists anymore without losing PfP as well as faction buffs

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/11/19 21:05:42


"AND YET YOU ACT AS IF THERE IS SOME IDEAL ORDER IN THE WORLD, AS IF THERE IS SOME...SOME RIGHTNESS IN THE UNIVERSE BY WHICH IT MAY BE JUDGED." 
   
Made in gb
Fixture of Dakka





Their rules are currently in Psychic Awakening: Phoenix Rising, but theres rumours of a major Eldar overhaul next year.

Best to hold off just for now.

Casual gaming, mostly solo-coop these days.

 
   
Made in gb
Killer Klaivex




The dark behind the eyes.

Unfortunately, the new rules for Dark Eldar have basically killed Ynnari.

Despite Ynnari already being one of the worst ways to run DE/Eldar/Harlequins (and one of the weakest 'factions' in general), GW decided that playing DE as them has to utterly cripple your army by removing PfP (which effectively contains core rules for most of your units).

Previously, I was willing to take the massive hit in exchange for fluff. Now? Not a chance. Maybe they can still work with Harlequins and Eldar but with Dark Eldar they're just dead.

 blood reaper wrote:
I will respect human rights and trans people but I will never under any circumstances use the phrase 'folks' or 'ya'll'. I would rather be killed by firing squad.



 the_scotsman wrote:
Yeah, when i read the small novel that is the Death Guard unit options and think about resolving the attacks from a melee-oriented min size death guard squad, the thing that springs to mind is "Accessible!"

 Argive wrote:
GW seems to have a crystal ball and just pulls hairbrained ideas out of their backside for the most part.


 Andilus Greatsword wrote:

"Prepare to open fire at that towering Wraithknight!"
"ARE YOU DAFT MAN!?! YOU MIGHT HIT THE MEN WHO COME UP TO ITS ANKLES!!!"


Akiasura wrote:
I hate to sound like a serial killer, but I'll be reaching for my friend occam's razor yet again.


 insaniak wrote:

You're not. If you're worried about your opponent using 'fake' rules, you're having fun the wrong way. This hobby isn't about rules. It's about buying Citadel miniatures.

Please report to your nearest GW store for attitude readjustment. Take your wallet.
 
   
Made in gb
Stern Iron Priest with Thrall Bodyguard



UK

No, the white dwarf codex is utter trash and until they get a proper codex that won't change.

I finished making a ynnari force two weeks before that came out and it's never seen the table top.

Eldar that lore wise are in the faction can't be taken, synergy for many units is gone because you can't take the units their designed to buff.

And the faction rules are just outright worse than every other option.

   
Made in gb
Killer Klaivex




The dark behind the eyes.

Actually, I thought it might help to elaborate a little more as to why Ynnari don't really function:

In the lore, I believe they have a strong psychic theme and also a theme of renewal, drawing strength from death.

The latter used to be represented with an ability that let units take an out-of-sequence action once per turn if a unit was killed next to them. This caused some issues, as you can probably imagine, particularly with certain units. It made those units very awkward to cost (as Ynnari didn't change their cost - so their power would fluctuate wildly, depending on whether they were being used in Ynnari or in their base codex).

This could potentially have been solved by making Ynnari a separate codex, rather than a parasitic sourcebook that only contains 3 actual units and has to steal the rest from other factions. Instead, however, GW chose to remove that ability altogether and replace it with a bucket of manure. Now, instead of getting an extra action, all units get +1 to hit in melee and Always Strikes First in melee so long as an enemy died that turn.

This is a severe downgrade, not least because many eldar units want nothing whatsoever to do with melee. Moreover, even the ones that do could generally gain far more than this by simply staying with their own faction.

To illustrate this point, take Dark Eldar. By taking Ynnari, they lose Power from Pain (PfP). PfP gives all DE units +1 to hit in melee from turn 3 onwards. So unless you're in combat on turn 1, Ynnari is only an improvement for 1 actual turn in the entire game. Except that PfP also brings other benefits as well - it gives all units a 6++ (which upgrades to a 5++ on turn 4) and, far more importantly, it lets them Advance and still charge from turn 2 onwards.

Oh, but that's just the loyalty rule you don't get. You also don't get to benefit from any of the Kabal or Cult rules either. So you also miss out on +1S for CB Wyches, extra range and reroll wounds for OR Kabal etc.

So you're already losing two very important abilities from every one of your units, and replacing them with a single rule that's worse even than one of those rules.

However, that's by no means all you lose by taking Ynnari DE:
- You're banned from taking Coven units, Mandrakes or any special characters - which represent about 1/4 of the entire DE codex and 2/3 of its HQs.
- You can't benefit from the special DE detachments.
- You lose a ton of stratagems and get basically nothing in return (the Ynnari stratagems are almost universally awful).
- You can still build a functional Archon but the Succubus is dead in the water as she is entirely reliant on Warlord traits and Relics to be in any way worth a damn, and the Ynnari ones are either incompatible or don't help her at all.
etc.

Oh and did I mention that you *have* to take one of the 3 Ynnari special characters in order to use them at all? And if you want to combine different Eldar factions (which is the entire purpose of Ynnari), then you still have to keep those units in separate detachments and every single detachment will require another special character. Oh and even after all that, the eldar factions are still incompatible. You can't, for example, use a Troupe Master to buff Wyches, nor an Archon to buff Dire Avengers.

Now, whilst I think the above is utterly abysmal design, I'd be prepared to put up with it if Ynnari were actually fun to use. The problem is... they're really not.

Part of this is their themes. A psychic theme is cool but unlike, say, Thousand Sons, Ynnari have absolutely nothing going for them in that department. They have special characters who can use psychic powers and... that's it. That's all they bring. Even their psychic discipline is bog-standard and boring. I still don't understand why other armies are able to have stuff like Warptime and Stratagems that let them fire or fight twice, yet the act-again power for Ynnari had to be removed. Even the power that resurrects a unit is unreliable garbage that's easily put to shame by a basic Apothecary.

Wouldn't it be neat if, instead of relying on special characters, they could instead make generic HQs into psykers or something like that? But no, when making a character Ynnari all you do is cross out one keyword and replace it with another. Thrilling.

Indeed, there's a really weird aspect wherein Ynnari feel like they're meant to be a character-centric faction and yet the characters are given almost nothing to do. Even the main army ability just gives them +1 to hit in melee. But, given that they already almost universally have WS2+ already, they can't benefit from this at all. They have a few nice Warlord Traits and one or two okay artefacts, but the selection of both is bare-bones (given that you're potentially replacing artefacts and warlord traits from up to 3 different eldar factions) and there's very little that stands out in any meaningful way - especially when you consider what you had to give up in exchange. Moreover, many of them seem almost to forget what characters even exist between the eldar factions. The only nice thing Ynnari get is a strat that allows a dead character to revive. This is awesome and is exactly the sort of thing I'd want when playing Ynnari. The problem is that the fun rules begin and end with this stratagem.

Lastly, there's a glaring issue wherein the Eldar factions have different rules and lose different rules from becoming Ynnari, yet the Ynnari rules make no account of this. Harlequins, for example, are able to still advance and charge when Ynnari, but Dark Eldar are not. Yet the latter gain no compensation, nor anything to make up for that. DE are also unable to use the pistol relic at all (it has to replace a Shuriken Pistol, which they don't use) and the Ynnari melee weapon can't be used by the DE melee HQ (it has to replace a power sword, huskblade or star glaive - none of which Succubi have access to).

All in all, it just feels like a very half-arsed supplement, written by someone who doesn't appear to understand either Ynnari or any of the eldar factions, and probably rushed out to make way for more Marine releases.

I think this is a real shame because, while I'm not a huge fan of the Ynnari fluff, I really like their themes and I'd love to see them be actually viable again.

 blood reaper wrote:
I will respect human rights and trans people but I will never under any circumstances use the phrase 'folks' or 'ya'll'. I would rather be killed by firing squad.



 the_scotsman wrote:
Yeah, when i read the small novel that is the Death Guard unit options and think about resolving the attacks from a melee-oriented min size death guard squad, the thing that springs to mind is "Accessible!"

 Argive wrote:
GW seems to have a crystal ball and just pulls hairbrained ideas out of their backside for the most part.


 Andilus Greatsword wrote:

"Prepare to open fire at that towering Wraithknight!"
"ARE YOU DAFT MAN!?! YOU MIGHT HIT THE MEN WHO COME UP TO ITS ANKLES!!!"


Akiasura wrote:
I hate to sound like a serial killer, but I'll be reaching for my friend occam's razor yet again.


 insaniak wrote:

You're not. If you're worried about your opponent using 'fake' rules, you're having fun the wrong way. This hobby isn't about rules. It's about buying Citadel miniatures.

Please report to your nearest GW store for attitude readjustment. Take your wallet.
 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Ynnari are seeming more and more like they were just created to play a bit part in the super-hero Guilliman storyline and have been abandoned after that since they never had any actual plans for them except as a way to rez the blue savior.

It's sort-of a fitting metaphor for the general role of non-Space Marine factions in 40k in the last decade or so.

   
Made in us
Terrifying Doombull




It seems more likely that someone in the studio had their plans go awry.

And GW's continuing incompetence on handling elf armies.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/11/21 16:17:22


Efficiency is the highest virtue. 
   
Made in gb
Killer Klaivex




The dark behind the eyes.

yukishiro1 wrote:
Ynnari are seeming more and more like they were just created to play a bit part in the super-hero Guilliman storyline and have been abandoned after that since they never had any actual plans for them except as a way to rez the blue savior.

It's sort-of a fitting metaphor for the general role of non-Space Marine factions in 40k in the last decade or so.



I still strongly believe that Ynnari were meant to be the replacement for Eldar. As in, the various Eldar factions would lose their distinct identities and instead be incorporated under the banner of Ynnari (in the same way that the original AoS blobbed all the units together into just Order, Destruction, Chaos and Death).

However, given the reception to the original AoS, GW did a sudden gear-shift and instead abandoned the Ynnari mega-faction idea.

Evidently, having scrapped this idea, GW has absolutely no clue what to do with any of the Eldar factions instead. Hence why they spent the entirety of 8th just treading water - Dark Eldar got nothing new, Eldar got nothing new, Harlequins got nothing new, Ynnari barely even exists at this point. All we've received is a few low-effort resculpts of existing models.

Clearly GW either has absolutely no ideas as to what direction to take the Eldar factions instead of Ynnari (or how to make Ynnari work without destroying the other three factions in the process), or else is simply too lazy and too focussed on Marines to even bother trying.

 blood reaper wrote:
I will respect human rights and trans people but I will never under any circumstances use the phrase 'folks' or 'ya'll'. I would rather be killed by firing squad.



 the_scotsman wrote:
Yeah, when i read the small novel that is the Death Guard unit options and think about resolving the attacks from a melee-oriented min size death guard squad, the thing that springs to mind is "Accessible!"

 Argive wrote:
GW seems to have a crystal ball and just pulls hairbrained ideas out of their backside for the most part.


 Andilus Greatsword wrote:

"Prepare to open fire at that towering Wraithknight!"
"ARE YOU DAFT MAN!?! YOU MIGHT HIT THE MEN WHO COME UP TO ITS ANKLES!!!"


Akiasura wrote:
I hate to sound like a serial killer, but I'll be reaching for my friend occam's razor yet again.


 insaniak wrote:

You're not. If you're worried about your opponent using 'fake' rules, you're having fun the wrong way. This hobby isn't about rules. It's about buying Citadel miniatures.

Please report to your nearest GW store for attitude readjustment. Take your wallet.
 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka






yukishiro1 wrote:
Ynnari are seeming more and more like they were just created to play a bit part in the super-hero Guilliman storyline and have been abandoned after that since they never had any actual plans for them except as a way to rez the blue savior.

It's sort-of a fitting metaphor for the general role of non-Space Marine factions in 40k in the last decade or so.



Their story is awful, they were always part of the Lore with Ynnead and the prophesies blah blah, but how they did it was completely stupid, everything about it was bad. Really feels like a fan fic from a person that hates GWs stories, loves Gman, and wanted to make their own.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/11/21 19:38:48


   
 
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