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Made in us
Preacher of the Emperor





Denver, CO, USA

I'm reaching out to the whole Dakka community for your ideas on how to expand, enhance, and perhaps even SAVE *gasp* the League of Extraordinary Riveters Terrain Contest. Since I started entering a few years ago, the contest has pushed me to develop new skills, acquire new tools, and undertake more ambitious projects. In that time, it has also declined from 10-ish entries per contest to around 4-5. There are always a mix of old-timers and new faces, but never enough of either that it seems that the future of the LoER is secure. I'm hoping to entice some veterans to return and to attract some new blood as well. It would be great to see a dozen or more entries every time around.

Before I do any polling, please contribute any ideas or suggestions you might have in this thread. Here's some idea fuel to get the conversation rolling...

Things that might help:

better/different/more accommodating themes
a public theme poll in the style of the monthly painting contest
hosting honors going to the author of the chosen theme, not the winner of the previous round
different timeline to produce and deliver entries
other structural changes
material support or prize support

What else? What has kept you from entering, and what might help bring you on board?

Theme ideas I've had:
plinth/display board, maybe a joint venture with the painting contest
new stuff challenge: try new materials, tools, techniques
derivative works: emulate a favorite hobby crafter or Dakkanaut
artistic inspiration: invoke a personal favorite or iconic artist or work




This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/11/26 14:50:28


   
Made in au
Ragin' Ork Dreadnought






Albany, Australia

For me, entering is not the problem - completing is . One of the advantages of the monthly painting contest is that it is monthly - it helps to limit scope and provides a regular, well known re-entry point.

For me, I need to to get going at launch. If I haven't started one month in (or missed the thread going up), chances are I'm not particpating, and I have a two month plus wait until the next round....

So perhaps start with a more predictable schedule, ie Jan-Mar, May-Jul, Sep-Nov. Maybe run smaller monthly rounds (much smaller terrain pieces, specific techniques or materials, skills needed for the main events etc) in the non starting months, ie Feb-Apr, Jun-Aug, Oct-Dec - maybe the results of which can be incorporated into the current and/or next major round - so you can build towards it. Smaller monthly rounds could be held like the monthly painting contest, while the major rounds are the more traditional rounds with non participating judge - who I would open up to a past winner (which could be the most recent winner, but doesn't need to be). We would probably need a designated person (or persons) to launch the rounds on time (removing that from the judge's plate).

This would mean people could join in every month, provide more presence, and hopefully inspire more entries into the major rounds?

Just throwing ideas out there....
Arakasi

   
Made in us
Stealthy Space Wolves Scout





Folkvang

My biggest problem is that it's for terrain specifically. It's not that I don't love painting competitions and playing with my minis. I obviously do cuz I always get something done for the other competition here. It's just a large ask to have a big terrain piece completed alongside that piece.

That said, I am getting deep into 3d printing and it's opening up my selection of things I can paint and create. But my terrain I want to do is usually limited to the theme of my campaign and not to a random theme from an online poll. It's far more narrow a category to call a piece of terrain out as being under a random banner each month when I'd rather just do that castle I've been planning to use in the upcoming session. Ya know?

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Made in no
Longtime Dakkanaut






Agree with first post, terrain is quite space taking and it honestly do take time, more then a month, it is not like a single mini that is needed for the dakka painting challenge.
The guidlines allso puts a fokus on creativity rather then straight up painting the countless of allready existing terrain models on the marked, creativity, for some takes time.

So i would agree on what Ara says; one actual terrain scratch build per 3 months, perhaps a complete table every 6 months using the existing rules, then for monthly comps, a straight up paintjob of an existing terrain piece or a custom creation of a terrain piece, aka anything that is not an actual figurine model and anywhere from 1-3 models using no rules other then a theme.

Splitting the league thread into two would help seperate them, keeping the existing thread for 3 and 6 month projects and make a new thread for 1 month paint jobs.


Finaly, terrain, unlike figurines has a limited run, you would need double digit number of figurines for moust miniature tabletop games, but you only need a small amount of terrain pieces per board, and moust has a design that allows them to be used in multiple settings, so it is to be expected that the league has less takers then the dakka painting challenge.




darkswordminiatures.com
gamersgrass.com
Collects: Wild West Exodus, SW Armada/Legion. Adeptus Titanicus, Dust1947. 
   
Made in jp
Regular Dakkanaut






something that kills my interest in this challenge idea is the completion time frame. i know others have talked about doing 3 or 6 month time frames but i think that is too much time. if you tell me i have 3 months to do something im not going to start right away and will have likely forgotten or lost interest by the time month three rolls around. i think challenges should be monthly at the least and two at most. with a large time frame you have little reason to start early and complacency quickly sets in leading to unfinished or even unstarted work. if people feel that isnt enough time simply lower the scope of the challenge. focus on things like scatter terrain or simple buildings. to be honest people talk about spending five or ten hours working on painting their models and i think that is more than enough time to build a decent size terrain piece.

for me the best keys to success with this project is having a regular and reasonable schedule for events along with having challenges that meet this scope. another thing i would suggest is having creatively open challenges while at the same time giving plenty of visual examples or suggestions for those who need a bit of creative help. as an example ill use the creation of a tower. that could be a classic fantasy tower, a modern housing tower, a chemical tower, a radio tower, or even some sort of hollowed out tree tower. simple concept with many directions it can go in. by giving examples you might get someones creative juices flowing and find them joining in. i also think you might need to temper expectations as it may be a slow start getting people involved. once it gets rolling though im sure participation will increase. you just have to promote.
   
Made in us
Grumpy Longbeard






I have been away for about 2 years, back now
Agree with Peterhausenn, 1 month is enough, especially because there are no rules for the size of the project, could be as small as bases for characters.

For me the main problem is the space. I do not have storage room for finished terrain pieces, and that robs the purpose from making more terrain, I have nowhere to put it.
Because terrain is much harder to store than the minis, it piles up quick.

I do like themed ideas very much.
I think right now I can do small things that wont take up shelf space.
Other issue for me is that we do not have dedicated host.
Not everyone have time or knowledge to host the event. Is there a way to CO'automate the hosting process?


This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/11/25 11:03:33


 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut






I think moving to a more predictable scheduled format would be great. In the current format I sometimes find myself in one of two situations (1) Wanting to participate, but the contest is between rounds and I have no idea when next round will start. I might check for updates for a couple days and then move-on to other projects if the round does not get kicked off. (2) I decide I want to participate and the current round has been running for 4-6 weeks. I might participate, but it does not have the same "feel" since I am not really in-phase with the other participants. While everyone else is discussing paint themes, I am posting about what I plan to build.

Monthly builds seem to make a lot of sense to me. Knowing the contest will start on the 1st and end on the last day for the month would allow me to plan better. If I do get busy, I also know the next round is less than 4 weeks away.

Monthly contents would defiantly not work with the current format, with the winner running the next round. To maintain a monthly format, a host must be utilized. However, this will be a great deal of work for one person. I think forming a LoER Host Committee would work well. For example: One member would kick-off the contest on January 1st and would reply to participants. This same member would pull together the January poll at the end of the month. The goal would be that the fist member have the poll posted no later than February 3rd. While the first member is organizing the voting poll for January participants a second member would be posting the theme for February on the 1st of the month. The second member would then own the February contest. The fist member would would post results of the January contest in the middle of February and their support obligations for their round would be complete until it is their turn to host again. If the committee was comprised of three members each person would host 4 rounds per year, hosting for one month and then taking 2 off.

Overlapping the voting for the previous round with the initiation of the current round is a good idea, again borrowing from the Dakka Painting Challenge. I think it is cool that people can view entries for inspiration and then can move right over to the current contest to participate.

I think the voting format the Dakka Painting Challenge uses has a lot of benefits. (1) It takes the burden of judging off one person and is entirely community based. (2) The points system ensures all participants walk away with "something" for their efforts. Points you receive are equal to the Percentage of Votes your entry receives in the final Voting thread; if you get 10%, you get 10 points, if you get 6% you get 6 points, so on and so forth. Points are then accumulated over the course of a year. I think this encourages repeated participation. (3) I think you can vote more than once in the Dakka Painting Challenge, I see merit in this as well. It makes sense when you have a high level of participation. I think it also allows the community to provide feedback to all participants.

I do like the idea of offering a contest that would results in some larger and more ambitious builds. So the monthly contest would not support these types of results. However, I feel moving to monthly would help reinvigorate the LoER and that is a worthy goal. I think there will be an opportunity for further innovation to support the "big builds" after reaching our goal of increased participation. For example, if the cumulative point system is adopted from the Dakka Painting Challenge, maybe we can have a quarterly "face-off" challenge for the top point earners.

My final point is regarding themes. The past themes are for the most part very explicit regarding the building material used or the type of terrain than should be built. However, a few are more open to interpretation, like the most recent "by the book". I think we can challenge ourselves to branch out a bit when selecting a theme. What if a theme was based more in emotions. For example, theme based in Rage, Loss or even Reawakening.

In summary:
Monthly makes sense
A committee would standardize format without burdening one person
First order of business is to increase participation, realizing we might need revisit "big builds" at a later date
We should challenge ourselves to add themes beyond building material requirements or building type

I appreciate the effort to improve the LoER! Terrain is my favorite part of this hobby and these types of contest really help motivate and inspire. LoER is one of the last and I would really like to see it continue.




   
Made in us
The Marine Standing Behind Marneus Calgar





Upstate, New York

I think I’ve entered 2? and only finished one of these. I do like to keep half an eye one them to see if the theme lines up with what I can do.

For me, motivation and time are big aspects. Terrain is something I need more of, but don’t really want to do.

It’s best to have loose themes. My armies are based on either arctic snow or untouched maiden world. Any terrain I am going to put the effort into needs to match one of those. When I look at a topic, I need to filter it to something I can make/use. Painting a one-off mini just as a painting project is one thing, but dedicating the effort into a large object is another. I’m not going to build something just to shove it into a closet, and don’t have the space in the house to showcase random terrain.

I work slowly. There are a lot of things competing for my time. While I can bang out a mini or 5 for the painting comp, coming up with an idea, sourcing parts, building and painting a terrain peice in a tight time frame is twitchy at best. While there is something to be said for a regular monthly competition, there is no way I could ever get something finished. I think a 2 or 3 month timeframe would be doable.

Some lessons from the painting comp:

We try to have the poll up for the next month a week or so early. This gives people time to figure out what they are going to paint and get it without cutting too much into the month of painting time.
3 of the months are fixed subjects (March=Space Marine, October=Halloween, December=Open round) so people can plan even farther ahead on those.
We play very fast and loose on what’s acceptable. The themes tend to be vague, and the general response to “does this fit” is “if you think it does, go for it!” In all the years it’s been running I can’t think of more than a handful of times we suggested something might not fit. I know personally when it comes to voting I’ll pass over technically superior works for those that I feel fit the theme better.
The first round of the comp we just had one vote per person. With a large field of various skill, this did not work out. Allowing multiple votes lets people toss them out to people for other reasons. I’ll vote for people who’ve shown a lot of improvement, tried something new, just starting out, etc. At this point the usual suspects at the top of the pack really need to wow me to get a vote. Sure, they do amazing work, and will probably end up on the podium, but i try to keep my votes to around 5, and feel that people in the middle of the pack need to be rewarded for progress.
While it was nice to get a focused critique of my work for the LoER comp I finished, I understand that it’s a lot of work to judge/respond at that level for every entry. And defiantly does not scale up if you have a lot of people. That’s mostly crowdsourced in the painting comp. There are usually a few people every month who give a line or two of feedback to everyone, and sometimes we get some nice back and forth with critiques/suggestions in the vote threads.
Running the comp takes work. Not a huge amount, but not a negligible amount either. Some at the start of the month, just getting the post set up and answering questions. Most at the end, where compiling all the entries into a vote thread could be a 2-4 hour block of work. Para has always done the subject poll vote posts, but there is work there figuring out potential topics. We often crowdsource ideas, and traditionally the 2nd place finisher is given one more shot next month.

The core themes are inclusion, community, support and fun. Try to cast the net as wide as you can to catch as many people as you can. Open topics that people can spin their way so they can enter. Helping each other out. People have questions, and there are folks ready to answer. We have golden demon level guys brushing elbows with people still learning to thin their paints, and everyone in between. But not gatekeeping. Just advice and support. Encouraging people to try new things, suggesting what could be improved, but in a positive supporting manner. And sure there are points, and someone takes the gold at the end of the month. But that’s really secondary to getting some paint down with a fun crowd.

   
Made in jp
[DCM]
Incorporating Wet-Blending





Japan

While I have entered twice, and enjoyed the challenge both times, I think what keeps me from entering is the word "contest." While the painting challenge is ranked, the vibe isn't really that of a competition. Mostly, entrants compliment each other and provide advice and feedback, and being able to vote for mulitple entries means that I can say "I like this entry" rather than "This is the best entry." The former appeals more to my non-competitive nature.

Now showing more Samurai Marines, Bad Squiddo Amazons, and an Oldhammer Chaos Thug!

Painting total as of 3/28/2024: 21 plus a set of modular spaceship terrain

Painting total for 2023: 79 plus 28 Battlemechs and a Dragon-Balrog

 
   
Made in us
Preacher of the Emperor





Denver, CO, USA

These are really valuable insights... thank you all. If I may, I'll take a swing at distilling them into something that might point the way forward...

We switch to regular bi-monthly cycles. That should accommodate those who need the sense of urgency, those who need several weeks to produce something, and those who like to know when the next cycle kicks off. It effectively adds a 'build' month onto the 'paint' month that the other event has already proven to be workable.

We drop the word 'terrain' in favor of 'hobby' or 'craft' in order to allow scenic bases, dioramas, display boards, table tiles, scatter terrain, game effect markers, dice towers, and so on... nearly anything goes, as long is it isn't just miniatures.

We drop the word 'contest' in favor of the word 'challenge' in order to emphasize the need to push ourselves and support each other, whatever the skill level. I've always loved the fact that the scoring rubric rewards getting out of your comfort zone and trying a new approach, and I think that should remain at the heart of the event.

We consider a purely community-based evaluation system. This takes some pressure off the hosts/judges, and indeed will allow the leaders of the event to participate. I'd hate to see the granularity of the rubric scores go away, as I feel it's really insightful to see the breakdown, but maybe there's a way to streamline it for ease of use.

We consider a standing host or hosts. This is a tough one... I know I don't have my stuff together enough to take it on in perpetuity, but I'm good for every few cycles. Maybe if a handful of others are, we can swing it.

We make theme compliance optional, or drop it altogether. Clearly the selection of a good theme is an art unto itself, but maybe with a stockpile of community suggestions and a poll toward the close of each cycle, we can keep most people happy.

PLEASE keep this conversation going and the good ideas coming!

   
Made in us
Grumpy Longbeard






I am getting a feel that, most people think BIG, my self included, when talking about terrain or dioramas.

Perhaps, it is also best to communicate that terrain challenge entry doesn't have to be big or large or whole themed table set.
Something as small as bases or objective marker could work as an entry.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 MacPhail wrote:
These are really valuable insights... thank you all. If I may, I'll take a swing at distilling them into something that might point the way forward...

We switch to regular bi-monthly cycles. That should accommodate those who need the sense of urgency, those who need several weeks to produce something, and those who like to know when the next cycle kicks off. It effectively adds a 'build' month onto the 'paint' month that the other event has already proven to be workable.

We drop the word 'terrain' in favor of 'hobby' or 'craft' in order to allow scenic bases, dioramas, display boards, table tiles, scatter terrain, game effect markers, dice towers, and so on... nearly anything goes, as long is it isn't just miniatures.

We drop the word 'contest' in favor of the word 'challenge' in order to emphasize the need to push ourselves and support each other, whatever the skill level. I've always loved the fact that the scoring rubric rewards getting out of your comfort zone and trying a new approach, and I think that should remain at the heart of the event.

We consider a purely community-based evaluation system. This takes some pressure off the hosts/judges, and indeed will allow the leaders of the event to participate. I'd hate to see the granularity of the rubric scores go away, as I feel it's really insightful to see the breakdown, but maybe there's a way to streamline it for ease of use.

We consider a standing host or hosts. This is a tough one... I know I don't have my stuff together enough to take it on in perpetuity, but I'm good for every few cycles. Maybe if a handful of others are, we can swing it.

We make theme compliance optional, or drop it altogether. Clearly the selection of a good theme is an art unto itself, but maybe with a stockpile of community suggestions and a poll toward the close of each cycle, we can keep most people happy.

PLEASE keep this conversation going and the good ideas coming!


'Hobby' or 'Craft':
I like that!

Hosts:
If you run me through "hosting tutorial" maybe I can fill in a round or two.

Theme:
I always though that the theme is less of a rule or a guide, and more of an inspiration. A theme can be inspirational with only 1 requirement to stay in the spirit of "challenging our selves".
For example: ( sport themed challenge required to use a "sport or game piece" in the terrain. Leaving the "theme" open for various projects while having a "detail" condition that needs to be met.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/11/27 08:42:34


 
   
Made in us
Utilizing Careful Highlighting





Tangentville, New Jersey

Allowing smaller things (like objective counters or display bases) would definitely get me involved rather. Also seconding the painting challenge style voting system.


 
   
Made in jp
Regular Dakkanaut






Spoiler:
 MacPhail wrote:
These are really valuable insights... thank you all. If I may, I'll take a swing at distilling them into something that might point the way forward...

We switch to regular bi-monthly cycles. That should accommodate those who need the sense of urgency, those who need several weeks to produce something, and those who like to know when the next cycle kicks off. It effectively adds a 'build' month onto the 'paint' month that the other event has already proven to be workable.

We drop the word 'terrain' in favor of 'hobby' or 'craft' in order to allow scenic bases, dioramas, display boards, table tiles, scatter terrain, game effect markers, dice towers, and so on... nearly anything goes, as long is it isn't just miniatures.

We drop the word 'contest' in favor of the word 'challenge' in order to emphasize the need to push ourselves and support each other, whatever the skill level. I've always loved the fact that the scoring rubric rewards getting out of your comfort zone and trying a new approach, and I think that should remain at the heart of the event.

We consider a purely community-based evaluation system. This takes some pressure off the hosts/judges, and indeed will allow the leaders of the event to participate. I'd hate to see the granularity of the rubric scores go away, as I feel it's really insightful to see the breakdown, but maybe there's a way to streamline it for ease of use.

We consider a standing host or hosts. This is a tough one... I know I don't have my stuff together enough to take it on in perpetuity, but I'm good for every few cycles. Maybe if a handful of others are, we can swing it.

We make theme compliance optional, or drop it altogether. Clearly the selection of a good theme is an art unto itself, but maybe with a stockpile of community suggestions and a poll toward the close of each cycle, we can keep most people happy.

PLEASE keep this conversation going and the good ideas coming!


these seem to be pleasing changes. i might be able to help with the hosting, but as i generally preferring lurking i wont promise. coming up with themes will be easy enough though. i think the best way forward is to mimic and borrow from the painting challenge as much as possible just substituting miniatures with terrain.

one other thing that i will mention though is visibility. i almost always go to the view recent threads tab to view things on the site and if if a topic isnt listed there, im not checking on it. that means that anything that falls off the page will likely be missed and forgotten by someone like me. i think it would be helpful to encourage regular updates and posting on projects so that the thread remains visible to the most amount of people. hopefully that visibility will lead to increased participation as well.
   
Made in us
Grumpy Longbeard






 Peterhausenn wrote:
Spoiler:
 MacPhail wrote:
These are really valuable insights... thank you all. If I may, I'll take a swing at distilling them into something that might point the way forward...

We switch to regular bi-monthly cycles. That should accommodate those who need the sense of urgency, those who need several weeks to produce something, and those who like to know when the next cycle kicks off. It effectively adds a 'build' month onto the 'paint' month that the other event has already proven to be workable.

We drop the word 'terrain' in favor of 'hobby' or 'craft' in order to allow scenic bases, dioramas, display boards, table tiles, scatter terrain, game effect markers, dice towers, and so on... nearly anything goes, as long is it isn't just miniatures.

We drop the word 'contest' in favor of the word 'challenge' in order to emphasize the need to push ourselves and support each other, whatever the skill level. I've always loved the fact that the scoring rubric rewards getting out of your comfort zone and trying a new approach, and I think that should remain at the heart of the event.

We consider a purely community-based evaluation system. This takes some pressure off the hosts/judges, and indeed will allow the leaders of the event to participate. I'd hate to see the granularity of the rubric scores go away, as I feel it's really insightful to see the breakdown, but maybe there's a way to streamline it for ease of use.

We consider a standing host or hosts. This is a tough one... I know I don't have my stuff together enough to take it on in perpetuity, but I'm good for every few cycles. Maybe if a handful of others are, we can swing it.

We make theme compliance optional, or drop it altogether. Clearly the selection of a good theme is an art unto itself, but maybe with a stockpile of community suggestions and a poll toward the close of each cycle, we can keep most people happy.

PLEASE keep this conversation going and the good ideas coming!


these seem to be pleasing changes. i might be able to help with the hosting, but as i generally preferring lurking i wont promise. coming up with themes will be easy enough though. i think the best way forward is to mimic and borrow from the painting challenge as much as possible just substituting miniatures with terrain.


Why not one vote for both? One theme for both, the painting challenge and the terrain challenge.

 
   
Made in us
The Marine Standing Behind Marneus Calgar





Upstate, New York

 Mothsniper wrote:
 Peterhausenn wrote:
Spoiler:
 MacPhail wrote:
These are really valuable insights... thank you all. If I may, I'll take a swing at distilling them into something that might point the way forward...

We switch to regular bi-monthly cycles. That should accommodate those who need the sense of urgency, those who need several weeks to produce something, and those who like to know when the next cycle kicks off. It effectively adds a 'build' month onto the 'paint' month that the other event has already proven to be workable.

We drop the word 'terrain' in favor of 'hobby' or 'craft' in order to allow scenic bases, dioramas, display boards, table tiles, scatter terrain, game effect markers, dice towers, and so on... nearly anything goes, as long is it isn't just miniatures.

We drop the word 'contest' in favor of the word 'challenge' in order to emphasize the need to push ourselves and support each other, whatever the skill level. I've always loved the fact that the scoring rubric rewards getting out of your comfort zone and trying a new approach, and I think that should remain at the heart of the event.

We consider a purely community-based evaluation system. This takes some pressure off the hosts/judges, and indeed will allow the leaders of the event to participate. I'd hate to see the granularity of the rubric scores go away, as I feel it's really insightful to see the breakdown, but maybe there's a way to streamline it for ease of use.

We consider a standing host or hosts. This is a tough one... I know I don't have my stuff together enough to take it on in perpetuity, but I'm good for every few cycles. Maybe if a handful of others are, we can swing it.

We make theme compliance optional, or drop it altogether. Clearly the selection of a good theme is an art unto itself, but maybe with a stockpile of community suggestions and a poll toward the close of each cycle, we can keep most people happy.

PLEASE keep this conversation going and the good ideas coming!


these seem to be pleasing changes. i might be able to help with the hosting, but as i generally preferring lurking i wont promise. coming up with themes will be easy enough though. i think the best way forward is to mimic and borrow from the painting challenge as much as possible just substituting miniatures with terrain.


Why not one vote for both? One theme for both, the painting challenge and the terrain challenge.


Some themes that might work for generic mini painting might not work well for terrain and vice versus. That said, we have had a few bits of terrain entered in the painting comp over the years.

I don’t think it would work long-term, but might be fun to do a crossover event.

   
Made in us
Stealthy Space Wolves Scout





Folkvang

What about setting multiple themes to a month due to the overwhelmingly large amount of different terrains? Just going with broader terms is nice and all but you could circumvent that with multiple themes a month that you can choose from or mix.

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Made in ca
Fixture of Dakka





Surrey, BC - Canada

Or everyone who is on theme (and really on theme, not laying a rule book on the board terrain like I have done) gets +1 or +2 to their popular vote.

I know that managing the League is a bit of a dis-incentive. Finding time to review each entry can be a little time consuming...whereas the people's votes are much easier just relying on a poll. The current set-up uses both...now part of that was the originators intent, but the result has been fewer and fewer entries over time.

As mentioned, there is also the change with far more out of the box terrain being available now (which I have entered knowing I would not have a chance at winning, but to add another contestant because having both a selected champion and a peoples champion between three entries seemed a little much to me.

My two cents,

CB

   
Made in ca
Confident Halberdier





in the computer?

First of all, rebranding it as a "challenge" is great. Carries a different connotation than contest, I'm all for it.

Personally I hated hosting. Not the organizing aspect, but the judgement. Art is subjective, and while evaluating pieces on their technical skill is what the host evaluation is supposed to do, personal preference still makes an impact on it. I'd be happy with doing away with it altogether and doing a pure community vote. If constructive criticism is desired from the challengers, perhaps that can be handled in the main thread?

Opening up the themes to be more conceptual or open ended is also a good idea. Limiting the themes to types of buildings/materials drives innovation, but also limits it's scope - part of the reason I haven't been entering is I can't come up with an idea that fits the theme. If this is something the challenge adopts, the creator's explanation of their interpretation of the theme and how the piece exemplifies it should be included in the final entry. Compared to the Painting Challenge, the PC is a great motivator and the openness of the theme encourages lots of people to join but I find like 25% of the entrants barely follow the theme. The explanation could also be part of the community judgement.

Try out the 2 month time limit. Theoretically it may work, but I will point out that many have dropped out of the contest despite the 3-4 months usually allowed - putting a time limit on it may stimulate productivity but may also result in people biting off more than they can chew, and for larger terrain pieces it may be impossible to finish in the time period. The very first contest had a 1 month time limit that eventually was lengthened by necessity to the 3-4 months allowed now. But like I said, let's try it out.

Out of all of these, I think having more open themes will be the most beneficial, but with an explanation of the connection with the theme to keep it grounded and help inform voters on their work.

 
   
Made in gb
Calculating Commissar






Reading, Berks

I like the idea of changing it to Challenge instead, as well as expanding the scope to include objectives, effects etc. and allowing more of the 3d modelling/printing to come into it would be good. Anything to encourage more terrain to be built and conversations to be had around techniques etc. would be great.

Encouraging more interactions in the main thread would be good. I know I failed at that in the two challenges I've been in so far, with minor updates and no real interactions. I'll make sure this changes in the next one...

Maybe a way to encourage this (if the current scoring system remains) is to give extra points to those that show their work in progress more often as I'm fairly sure a chunk of mine just *appearing* could have been construed as prebuilt stuff being added for effect too.

Shorter time limits would possibly have benefitted me, but would have likely hobbled the larger builds that we've had in the competitions so far. Setting specific start dates, with lots of prior notice of the topics would counteract the longer timeframes and let people know what is coming up and when. The unknown gap between the current rounds does dilute it somewhat as I've been holding back on a couple of terrain projects waiting to see what is coming... which is making me think about skipping the challenge and just starting them anyway

   
Made in jp
Regular Dakkanaut






just curious if there are any updates on this project. while im here ill also make the suggestion that with the start of the new year around the corner that might be the perfect time to start with the new concept.
   
Made in gb
Fixture of Dakka





6 foot underwater

Not sure any of us early Leaguers thought this would still be running 9 years later, nice to see the passion for revitalization is strong.

Time limits are always a tricky one, detailed terrain can be time-consuming for some, before considering people's differing speeds and hobby time. I certainly never finished every attempt in time, whereas there are those who are able to whip up a great piece whilst others are still debating on the actual build

Having said that, if the rounds were on a regular schedule then it is obviously easier for peeps to plan around.

I've mainly been absent in recent years due to be absent from Dakka a fair bit in that time, but there is also an element of being a modeller not a gamer, and terrain taking up space in a small area - but there's not a lot you can do about that challenge wise.

The whole winner-runs-next-round was to avoid one of a couple of people running it constantly so as not to feel burnt out as the judge, does switching to just a public vote help in this? You still need someone behind it all, who is happy and willing to run it, and that's the big rub I feel. Without Nevelon, Paradigm and Midget Gems would the monthly painting challenge be the continuous success it is?
It was also a way to encourage different thematic ideas, as each winner came up with their own set of constraints, themes and sizes (it always being the case that it should be able to encompass all styles, sizes and games - or even diorama builds), and there are again things from the painting challenge that can be learnt - the poll on each theme with a couple of set months.

There was an I interesting suggestion around the idea of interspersing larger builds amongst more smaller builds, which may well help with time limits and planning.

In the end, the league was formed to push terrain building, improve skills and encourage discussion around techniques and materials. Changing the challenge parameters doesn't detract from this in any way, and finding ways to further encourage these aspects is only a good thing (raises a glass to dstein and vik)

Don't believe I added anything new to the discussion but saw the topic and it's obviously one close to my heart.

Maybe I'll even dig out the article I was working on a few years ago about the history of the League challenges, I did notice it in my docs the other week...

Looking forward to seeing what the future brings





cyborks & flyboyz : http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/300067.page
heretical ramblings : http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/302773.page
imperial preachings : http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/303365.page
Da Waaagh-ky Races : http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/325045.page
Briancj: You have the Mek Taint, MT, and the only thing we can do is watch in horror/amazement.

 
   
Made in us
Preacher of the Emperor





Denver, CO, USA

I got a little slammed by real life lately, but I won't miss the turn of the year to launch something... whatever it is. Sharpen your knives and stock up on ModPodge!

   
Made in ca
Confident Halberdier





in the computer?

 MacPhail wrote:
I got a little slammed by real life lately, but I won't miss the turn of the year to launch something... whatever it is. Sharpen your knives and stock up on ModPodge!


No worries MacPhail, I'm in the same boat, and I'm sure many others here are as well.

Looking forward to the next challenge!

 
   
Made in us
Preacher of the Emperor





Denver, CO, USA

Thanks... anyone remember the old arcade game Whack-a-Mole? That's my life right now.

As for the League, I'm planning on hosting the next round, setting a 2-month interval, and expanding from terrain to involve all things hobby/craft related. I'm strongly considering adopting the scoring/ranking system from the painting challenge, effectively shifting that away from the host. The only thing I'm still torn on is whether or not to include a theme.

   
Made in jp
Regular Dakkanaut






 MacPhail wrote:
Thanks... anyone remember the old arcade game Whack-a-Mole? That's my life right now.

As for the League, I'm planning on hosting the next round, setting a 2-month interval, and expanding from terrain to involve all things hobby/craft related. I'm strongly considering adopting the scoring/ranking system from the painting challenge, effectively shifting that away from the host. The only thing I'm still torn on is whether or not to include a theme.


i know ive already suggested this but i think you should mimic the painting challenge setup as much as you can. it seems to be a formula that works. i think simply change the challenge object being used from "model" to "terrain piece". i think themes would also be a positive as it gives people a bit of framework to build off. they can also be fun. if you need help with theme ideas i can shoot some your way. have people vote for one like in the painting challenge and it takes some of the burden off of your shoulders as well.
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut






I think the theme is a good idea. It help to push us to think outside our "go-to" projects, ideas, methods and materials. Overwhelming feedback seems to be based on a more consistent and predictable time frame and to change the voting structure to reflect personal challenge and improvement and not a "single champion". I like the idea of voting on a theme. Maybe it would be a good idea to solicit themes from the community in a new thread for the next week. Then pull together a new posting so the community can vote on the theme from approximately December 18-24. Theme voting format could allow for multiple votes. Based on the poll results the new theme could be added to a draft posting introducing the new LoER as a Christmas present! I know many people are taking vacation from Christmas to New Years (self included) and would have some extra time to work on new projects.

   
Made in us
Preacher of the Emperor





Denver, CO, USA

Yep, that sounds about right... I'm on it!

EDIT: Drop your best ideas here.

Thanks!

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/12/11 20:08:11


   
 
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