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Made in ca
Longtime Dakkanaut




So, it seems Angels of Death has reached its conclusion after nine episode so I guess it's the right time to make a critique of it.

All in all, it was pretty bad. It wasn't horrible and not without some qualities, but it was still overall bad. Let's start with the good stuff.

The black on white on red "Sin City" style of aesthetic was actually a pretty interesting choice. Some of the animation was pretty darn good, especially when it came down to Space Marine movements. The design of the ship's helm was pretty cool and the soundtrack, while rather minimalist was still enjoyable.

On the meh side, I would place the scenario which is basically Space Marine adventure number 244534265. It's been done a million time and in pretty much all declination by Black Library's novel and will probably be done a million times more. The characters were all pretty much cardboard cut outs with little differences between them. Only the two sergeants had minimally developed personality though there is zero character development for either of them. The Techmarine was actually the most entertaining to watch if only because of the humor involved in his "pray to make machine works and then punches them". Why do dreadnaught seem to speak only in one liners and tagline is mysterious to me, but it seems to be something they do in other media to.

On the bad side I'll have to say that the voice acting ranged from meh to freakin' terrible. The same can be said for ambient sound. It often just sounds like the background atmospheric sound of some black library audiobook than actual sound effect of a show, even a low budget animation like this one. The animation and design for the Genestealer Cult was generally horrendous. The only tactic they have seem to be sending wave after wave of lasgun wielding neophytes without any sort of heavy weapon or sniper to rush the Space Marine without using any form of cover. For an army that's supposed to be consummate guerilla fighters, they launch only one thing that could be called an ambush at the very first skirmish of the show. The Acolyte Hybrids who are supposed to be superhuman fighters, lightning quick and skilled close combat fighter look completely worthless at anything, slow and stupid. It's even worst with actual Genestealer and the Patriarch. These things are supposed to be lightning quick hyper strong close combat monsters, but during the entire show they seem to move like clumsy mannequin with little coordination. They also look strangely small. As usual, they seem to have forgotten that Patriarchs are powerful psykers, hyper intelligent creatures and instead makes it behave more like some sort of brutish Carnifex so that a crazed sergeant can kill it with a regular sword (though the representations of the hallucinations of the Black Rage were pretty nice). Space Marines need good antagonists to look good.

So, in general, pretty bad. Hammer and Bolter has yielded far more interesting stuff so far. Let's hope the other planned show will be improving. A better animation and sound effect budget would be necessary in opinion. What do you think?
   
Made in gb
Decrepit Dakkanaut




UK

The audio was curious. I can get not having lots of money for loads of complex battle animations, but I'd have expected things like music backing the montage style fighting - one on one duels and such.

And yeah some of the scenes felt strange with the sound choices they made to give background noise. Almost too quiet. Same for the Dreadnought when it started firing its main assault gun - quiet was my first thought.



I thought it was decent it just felt like either the "spark" wasn't there from the creators - perhaps to overshadowed by GW staff? - or the budget wasn't there. Or perhaps a little of both - a budget that led to constraints mixed with an overview/review that sapped creative freedom a little?



It's hard to say, and I do agree that HB does seem to manage itself better with the resources they've got.

I think the underlaying storyboard and structure is solid for Angels of Death and when we get good scenes and voice actors they hold their own pretty well - a lot of the ship scenes were very solid and the wordy power-battle between the Mechanicus and Marine I thought was very fitting as a scene concept if perhaps a tiny bit hollow.




Overall I enjoyed it, but I can hope that GW and the studios they work with will do better in the future.

A Blog in Miniature

3D Printing, hobbying and model fun! 
   
Made in gb
Dakka Veteran



South East London

Should just point out that Angels of Death has one more episode to go.

"Dig in and wait for Winter" 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut






The most difficult part of Angels of Death was anytime a character was talking and you could see their mouth moving. Never lined up and always pulled me out of it.

Overall I liked that it was a thing, but it was an imperfect thing.

I liked seeing the bridge crew trying to handle their situation while the Angels were off doing their thing.
   
Made in us
[DCM]
Savage Minotaur




Baltimore, Maryland

I liked the Black Rage scene, where we got visions of Horus v. Sanguinius. I think we got very “blink and you’ll miss it” glimpses shortly before the Chaplain got wrecked, but this was much more obvious.

I also appreciated how it was the Marine who was more or less the most centered of all the characters that fell to the Black Rage, rather then the Deathwatch guy which seemed the obvious choice. Nice nod that it can happen to the best of them.

Sound effects were bogus. Just didn’t move me. Its been awhile since I played Dawn of War or Space Marine, but these sound effects seemed like a down grade to me.

For me there was alot to like. I give it 3/4 stars.

"Sometimes the only victory possible is to keep your opponent from winning." - The Emperor, from The Outcast Dead.
"Tell your gods we are coming for them, and that their realms will burn as ours did." -Thostos Bladestorm
 
   
Made in us
Focused Fire Warrior




Les Etats Unis

From the perspective of someone who doesn't have WH+, "Angels of Death" is a horrible name. Every time I hear it I think the show is about the Deathwing.

Dudeface wrote:
 Eldarain wrote:
Is there another game where players consistently blame each other for the failings of the creator?

If you want to get existential, life for some.
 
   
Made in us
[DCM]
Savage Minotaur




Baltimore, Maryland

 Flipsiders wrote:
From the perspective of someone who doesn't have WH+, "Angels of Death" is a horrible name. Every time I hear it I think the show is about the Deathwing.


Angels of Death was the name of the joint Blood Angels/Dark Angels codex way back in the day(2nd edition), so there is a bit of history referenced in the name.

"Sometimes the only victory possible is to keep your opponent from winning." - The Emperor, from The Outcast Dead.
"Tell your gods we are coming for them, and that their realms will burn as ours did." -Thostos Bladestorm
 
   
Made in us
[DCM]
Fireknife Shas'el





Leicester

There is a post credits scene on the last episode, if people aren’t aware

DS:80+S+GM+B+I+Pw40k08D+A++WD355R+T(M)DM+
 Zed wrote:
*All statements reflect my opinion at this moment. if some sort of pretty new model gets released (or if I change my mind at random) I reserve the right to jump on any bandwagon at will.
 
   
Made in nl
[MOD]
Decrepit Dakkanaut






Cozy cockpit of an Imperial Knight

I think the bolter sound they used for the show was a lot like the M1 ping, or something like that, it really threw me off. I stopped watching halfway through the series with the intent of watching it all in one go, as I've found it very so-so thus far. They have a good stable of voice actors, most if not all of them being audio drama veterans, but yeah, lack of lip synch hurts.

As for the other shows from Hammer & Bolter, lack of animation aside, and YMMV, but some of these were better than the "main" feature they keep hyping. I quite liked Old Bale Eye and Bound for Greatness is what Warhammer Horror should be IMHO.

This may be GW still trying to find their stride, but they could do so much better. Right now a lot of this could just be presented as audio dramas, which I'd much rather see them doing again.



Fatum Iustum Stultorum



Fiat justitia ruat caelum

 
   
Made in de
Huge Bone Giant






I don't want to sound negative, so I'll first say that I enjoyed the show well enough. As a big fan of washing machines I got a kick out of the Dreadnought action, even if it could have been done better. Overall I thought it was fun and worth watching. That said, there are a few things that are easily picked out from my experience:

I watched the last three episodes entirely sober. That was a mistake, I think.

As much as I want to believe the creators had dramatic tension in mind, I found that battle consistently started with too much delay and there were too many breaks for statements from one character or another. The Marines especially always seemed so reluctant to be the genocidal, xenophobic maniacs that they are, waiting around for everyone to line up and announce their intentions before they open fire. I found that jarring. Imagine a scene in which it has long since been established that a vile xenos cult has taken over the planet, you have a squad of Marines that's armed to the teeth and sees a xenos leader step out into the open. No cover. No bodyguards. Not even a hello. What is your answer?

a) Wait around for his buddies to swarm in, then shoot them up and still let the boss guy stand in the open because damn it, you're owed a hello!
b) Boom! Headshot! Problem solved.

It's not just the Marines. Basically you have untempered hatred and lightning reflexes on both sides, and they all stand around like idiots before they finally get around to making up their minds and go to work.

The show was pretty much run of the mill bolter porn. Not that that's a bad thing. It's a show about Marines doing things Marines do. But if you make bolter porn, at least make that part good.

Another point, I may very well be spoiled by Star Wars here, but I thought ships were fragile and ship debris was more like small Lego parts than recognizable fragments of ships. It never felt like good, sturdy Imperial design that even if broken into pieces looked like it would not so easily be destroyed. Star Wars has evolved to show ships to be really sturdy and survive massive punishment in more recent media. Not the original movies, of course, but it's a standard I like and would have liked to see in a Warhammer animation as well.

Speaking of standards, since sound has been mentioned, my gold standard for Marine music is Dawn of War 2 cranking up the "Angels of Death" track as soon as your Marines engage the enemy. Might be a little too heroic for this show, but yeah, I didn't feel the minimalist sound design and frankly, I don't remember anything catchy from the show at all. Since music (and sound in general) is such a powerful tool that can gloss over visual and script problems, it's not something that should be disregarded as it apparently was for Angels of Death.

Nehekhara lives! Sort of!
Why is the rum always gone? 
   
Made in us
Focused Fire Warrior




Les Etats Unis

 nels1031 wrote:
 Flipsiders wrote:
From the perspective of someone who doesn't have WH+, "Angels of Death" is a horrible name. Every time I hear it I think the show is about the Deathwing.


Angels of Death was the name of the joint Blood Angels/Dark Angels codex way back in the day(2nd edition), so there is a bit of history referenced in the name.


Huh, I think I knew that at one point but forgot. That's what happens when you were only born two years into 3rd. Thanks for the information!

Dudeface wrote:
 Eldarain wrote:
Is there another game where players consistently blame each other for the failings of the creator?

If you want to get existential, life for some.
 
   
Made in au
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.

The sound mixing in the show is awful. Nothing has any real weight to it, and the actual sound effects are just so weak.

Industrial Insanity - My Terrain Blog
"GW really needs to understand 'Less is more' when it comes to AoS." - Wha-Mu-077

 
   
Made in ca
Longtime Dakkanaut




New episode of Hammer and Bolter in.

I like the fact that so far we only have one episode centered on Space Marines so far. This one was pretty much the weakest so far I would say. It could have been great, but it tells to much (despite the paucity of dialogue) instead of showing. Also, use of you "tagline" sparingly instead than every four sentences or so would have been nice.
   
Made in de
Huge Bone Giant






But but but! Good Cadians only know four words! "Yes", "sir", "Cadia" and "stands". Anyone who knows more is overqualified and possibly (definitely) a heretic!

I agree that it's good that there has been no greater focus on Marines, not because I'm opposed to seeing more Marines but because for now it makes Hammer and Bolter seem like it offers what it's supposed to offer, a good spread and look at all manner of things. In this regard I'm going to repeat a complaint I had since basically the beginning: where's AoS stuff?

Granted, 40k is bigger and asking for 40k and AoS to alternate by the episode may be a bit much, not the least because GW can't even release one episode per week of the animations. But completely depriving that part of their fanbase of the animation side of Warhammer+ is... not a good look.

Anyway, I thought the episode was fun. I think I liked it more for the Tyranids than the Guardsmen, and the backdrops of the trench system and fortifications were cool. As noted the stoic repetition of "Cadia stands!" in all its variations made the Guardsmen a little one note.

In that regard I think early episodes of Hammer and Bolter may be bound to offer less story than they could because they are likely set up as introductions to the background of the featured factions and spend more time on that than the actual story. Origin movies often have this problem. There's some cool stuff in there, but also room for improvement. I hope that the format runs long enough to make it to the point where introductory episodes are done and additional ones offer more substance.

Nehekhara lives! Sort of!
Why is the rum always gone? 
   
 
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