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Adeptus Astartes – Strategic Ploy Stratagem
Few indeed are the foes who can hope to escape the savage barrage of Space Marine artillery with their wits intact.
Use this Stratagem in your Shooting phase, when a WHIRLWIND model from your army is selected to shoot. Until the end of the phase, each time that model makes an attack with a weapon that has the Blast ability, if a hit is scored for that attack, then until the start of your next turn the target cannot fire Overwatch or Set to Defend, and cannot be selected to fight until all eligible units from your army have done so.
So if a unit is targeted and a hit is scored, the stratagem takes effect. Then the turn ends and its the opponents turn. If that unit under the effect of the stratagem makes a charge move does it get ti fight first? As a usual charge, because the stratagem says the effect hold until the start of the player (the one using the strategem) next turn.
2021/12/08 22:53:52
Subject: Re:Supression fire strategem for Whirlwind
*Pages 361-362 – Rare Rules, Always Fight First/Last
Add the following paragraphs to the end of this Rare Rules entry: ‘Note that it doesn’t matter how many rules are affecting a unit that enable it to fight first, or how many rules are affecting it that say it cannot be selected to fight until after all other units have done so – if a unit is under the effects of one or more of both kinds of ability simultaneously, that unit instead fights as if none of those rules are affecting it.
Note that the Counter-offensive Stratagem requires you to select a unit that is eligible to fight. This means that if a unit is under the effects of a rule that says that it is not eligible to fight until after all other eligible units have done so, then unless that unit is also under the effects of a rule that lets it fight first, you will not be able to select that unit to use the Counter-offensive Stratagem.
Some examples of rules that always allow a unit to strike first include Martial Superiority and Veil of Time (see Codex: Space Marines), Precognitive Strike (see Codex: Necrons), etc. Also note, as per the core rules, that units that have charged fight first in the Fight phase, and for the purposes of this Rare Rule this is considered to be a rule that lets a unit always strike first.
Some examples of rules that always make a unit strike last (or say a unit cannot be selected to fight until after all other eligible units have done so) include Tempormortis (see Codex: Space Marines), The Armour of Russ (see Codex Supplement: Space Wolves), Obeisance Generators (see Codex: Necrons), etc.’
So there could be some situations where the whirlwind thats supressing a unit is killed in the shooting phase, then in the charge phase a unit charges in, but is "fight last" because its beeing supressed by a destroyed vehicle.
They should change the strategem to only work if the whirlwind is still alive.
2021/12/12 06:22:01
Subject: Re:Supression fire strategem for Whirlwind
Why ? The whirlwind already shot its guns, when its destroyed. What they should do is change the stratagem to only affect infantry, and only when it wounds. Its ridiculous that it works against everything, and doesnt need to wound.
2021/12/12 23:24:47
Subject: Re:Supression fire strategem for Whirlwind
p5freak wrote: Why ? The whirlwind already shot its guns, when its destroyed. What they should do is change the stratagem to only affect infantry, and only when it wounds. Its ridiculous that it works against everything, and doesnt need to wound.
I don't think you understand what suppressing fire means. You are not supposed to really hit anything with suppressing fire, so why would it need to wound?
"Did you notice a sign out in front of my chapel that said "Land Raider Storage"?" -High Chaplain Astorath the Grim Redeemer of the Lost.
I sold my soul to the devil and now the bastard is demanding a refund!
We do not have an attorney-client relationship. I am not your lawyer. The statements I make do not constitute legal advice. Any statements made by me are based upon the limited facts you have presented, and under the premise that you will consult with a local attorney. This is not an attempt to solicit business. This disclaimer is in addition to any disclaimers that this website has made.
2021/12/13 04:04:20
Subject: Re:Supression fire strategem for Whirlwind
p5freak wrote: Why ? The whirlwind already shot its guns, when its destroyed. What they should do is change the stratagem to only affect infantry, and only when it wounds. Its ridiculous that it works against everything, and doesnt need to wound.
I don't think you understand what suppressing fire means. You are not supposed to really hit anything with suppressing fire, so why would it need to wound?
Right, it stops a TITANIC unit from overwatching or set to defend, even when it bounces off its armour. There must be some fancy firework inside those shells which distracts the pilot, or the daemon, or whatever it is. Does that sound right to you ?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/12/13 04:06:31
2021/12/13 05:53:59
Subject: Re:Supression fire strategem for Whirlwind
p5freak wrote: Why ? The whirlwind already shot its guns, when its destroyed. What they should do is change the stratagem to only affect infantry, and only when it wounds. Its ridiculous that it works against everything, and doesnt need to wound.
I don't think you understand what suppressing fire means. You are not supposed to really hit anything with suppressing fire, so why would it need to wound?
Right, it stops a TITANIC unit from overwatching or set to defend, even when it bounces off its armour. There must be some fancy firework inside those shells which distracts the pilot, or the daemon, or whatever it is. Does that sound right to you ?
You know laz weapons, plasma weapons, Tyranids, The Warp, are all not real as well right?
It stopping a TITANIC unit from overwatching is no more ridiculous than Power swords, Las weapons, Plasma weapons, Tyranids, Orks, Dreadnoughts, Psykers, etc...
Do not try to bring realism into a fantasy/sci-fi setting, it never ends well.
The rules were not written to be "Modern day real world" logical. It is a rules system, an abstract system used to play a game by those rules.
If you are going by what is ridiculous, then over 90% of the game is ridiculous ,as most of it can not really happen.
"Did you notice a sign out in front of my chapel that said "Land Raider Storage"?" -High Chaplain Astorath the Grim Redeemer of the Lost.
I sold my soul to the devil and now the bastard is demanding a refund!
We do not have an attorney-client relationship. I am not your lawyer. The statements I make do not constitute legal advice. Any statements made by me are based upon the limited facts you have presented, and under the premise that you will consult with a local attorney. This is not an attempt to solicit business. This disclaimer is in addition to any disclaimers that this website has made.
Unit1126PLL wrote: Someday, people like "DeathReaper" will be able to distinguish when someone is talking about
"in the context of this fantasy, X doesn't make sense"
from when someone is saying
"in current reality, X doesn't make sense"
So that he stops strawmanning the former with a rebuttal to the latter.
I am not doing that. No strawman here.
It stops a TITANIC unit (And all others) from overwatching or set to defend, even when it bounces off its armor because explosions cause smoke and vision issues even if the shells do not penetrate armor. Someone needs to be able to see to shoot...
There is why, in the context of this fantasy, this actually makes sense.
"Did you notice a sign out in front of my chapel that said "Land Raider Storage"?" -High Chaplain Astorath the Grim Redeemer of the Lost.
I sold my soul to the devil and now the bastard is demanding a refund!
We do not have an attorney-client relationship. I am not your lawyer. The statements I make do not constitute legal advice. Any statements made by me are based upon the limited facts you have presented, and under the premise that you will consult with a local attorney. This is not an attempt to solicit business. This disclaimer is in addition to any disclaimers that this website has made.
Unit1126PLL wrote: Someday, people like "DeathReaper" will be able to distinguish when someone is talking about
"in the context of this fantasy, X doesn't make sense"
from when someone is saying
"in current reality, X doesn't make sense"
So that he stops strawmanning the former with a rebuttal to the latter.
I am not doing that. No strawman here.
It stops a TITANIC unit (And all others) from overwatching or set to defend, even when it bounces off its armor because explosions cause smoke and vision issues even if the shells do not penetrate armor. Someone needs to be able to see to shoot...
There is why, in the context of this fantasy, this actually makes sense.
Ah, I see, I was unaware that the Whirlwind alone could fire shells that caused smoke and vision issues...
All other shells must just cause pleasant flowers to bloom!
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/12/13 22:12:42
Is any of this relevant to the rules, folks? Leave the egos and the bickering, eh?
Stormonu wrote: For me, the joy is in putting some good-looking models on the board and playing out a fantasy battle - not arguing over the poorly-made rules of some 3rd party who neither has any power over my play nor will be visiting me (and my opponent) to ensure we are "playing by the rules"
Unit1126PLL wrote: Someday, people like "DeathReaper" will be able to distinguish when someone is talking about
"in the context of this fantasy, X doesn't make sense"
from when someone is saying
"in current reality, X doesn't make sense"
So that he stops strawmanning the former with a rebuttal to the latter.
I am not doing that. No strawman here.
It stops a TITANIC unit (And all others) from overwatching or set to defend, even when it bounces off its armor because explosions cause smoke and vision issues even if the shells do not penetrate armor. Someone needs to be able to see to shoot...
There is why, in the context of this fantasy, this actually makes sense.
Ah, I see, I was unaware that the Whirlwind alone could fire shells that caused smoke and vision issues...
All other shells must just cause pleasant flowers to bloom!
It is not just the Whirlwind , a lot of shells cause smoke and vision issues, but the crews of other weapons are not trained like crews of the Whirlwind, so they can not effectively utilize Supression fire.
(But this is all off topic, as was what started it all was p5freak when he proposed a rule, this one specifically "What they should do is change the stratagem to only affect infantry, and only when it wounds.")
We should leave that train of thought to the proposed rules forum.
The RAW here is clear.
"Did you notice a sign out in front of my chapel that said "Land Raider Storage"?" -High Chaplain Astorath the Grim Redeemer of the Lost.
I sold my soul to the devil and now the bastard is demanding a refund!
We do not have an attorney-client relationship. I am not your lawyer. The statements I make do not constitute legal advice. Any statements made by me are based upon the limited facts you have presented, and under the premise that you will consult with a local attorney. This is not an attempt to solicit business. This disclaimer is in addition to any disclaimers that this website has made.
