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Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




Now with the codex creep about to hit the Tau (ie make Tau competitive) how will they deal with the 3 damage per phase rule shared by models like Ghazgull and C'tan shards? The tau basically only ever deal damage in their shooting phase, and occasionally they can do more damage via overwatch. Will models with this rule just be a hard counter to Tau? Its also very likely that with the eldar getting their buffs they will receive a model with this rule as well via the Yncarne or possibly even Avatar of Khains.
   
Made in it
Longtime Dakkanaut





They will be a big issues for sure, especially now that Necrons are back on the tob tables.

Tau can technically one round these models, but they need to inflict the MW on the movement phase with the bombers and then the wounds in melee with a relic commander or a lot of kroots.
   
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Regular Dakkanaut




Some of the leaks have included a relic(?) Burst cannon that ignores wound limits and a warlord trait (I think?) that has a similar thing on 6's to wound.

But yeah, it will continue to be one of their weaknesses.
   
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Spoletta wrote:
They will be a big issues for sure, especially now that Necrons are back on the tob tables.

Tau can technically one round these models, but they need to inflict the MW on the movement phase with the bombers and then the wounds in melee with a relic commander or a lot of kroots.

Since when are Necron on top tables?
   
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Italy

It won't be a problem at all since such units are extremely limited. Even if Ghaz is on the table, and considering how bad he currently is that's a pretty big if, there's also 1700 points of other stuff to kill once the tau player has damaged the big guy enough.

Ghaz is also a mostly pure melee guy with 7'' M and massive body (hard to hide), which means he can go down in three turns of shooting pretty safely. At worst the tau player would sacrify one expendable unit that would be charged by Ghaz, and that's it. Most likely he'll go down without doing anything than maybe killing a few chaff troops with his big shootas equivalents.

 
   
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 vict0988 wrote:
Spoletta wrote:
They will be a big issues for sure, especially now that Necrons are back on the tob tables.

Tau can technically one round these models, but they need to inflict the MW on the movement phase with the bombers and then the wounds in melee with a relic commander or a lot of kroots.

Since when are Necron on top tables?


With the last point changes and those nerfs to top factions?

Give it 2 weeks time and you will see what happens.
   
Made in us
Morally-Flexible Malleus Hearing Whispers




 vict0988 wrote:
Spoletta wrote:
They will be a big issues for sure, especially now that Necrons are back on the tob tables.

Tau can technically one round these models, but they need to inflict the MW on the movement phase with the bombers and then the wounds in melee with a relic commander or a lot of kroots.

Since when are Necron on top tables?


I think he's referring to a recent event where Necrons took top, but it was a single event, and not a widespread theme. Necrons are still B tier at best.
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




Shoot, shoot, charge with some seemingly comically undercosted Kroot who you can potentially buff up seems fairly reliable versus a single C'Tan.

Not sure whether Necrons will be more viable with the points drops. I mean by definition they must be - but looking at say the Destroyers, I'd have thought a 5 point drop for both foot and hover would have been crazy in late 2020 - but in 2022 both seem somewhat lacking compared with comparable units in other codexes.

I'd wait on the full release of changes, unless that's been leaked.
   
Made in fi
Locked in the Tower of Amareo





bat702 wrote:
Now with the codex creep about to hit the Tau (ie make Tau competitive) how will they deal with the 3 damage per phase rule shared by models like Ghazgull and C'tan shards? The tau basically only ever deal damage in their shooting phase, and occasionally they can do more damage via overwatch. Will models with this rule just be a hard counter to Tau? Its also very likely that with the eldar getting their buffs they will receive a model with this rule as well via the Yncarne or possibly even Avatar of Khains.


That's certainly one weakness but don't underestimate overwatch. You still can deal with those on 2 turns then. One shotting won't be possible but not every army can deal with those in 1 turn anyway.

Has there been btw ignore damage ignore weapons in tau army leaks?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 vict0988 wrote:
Spoletta wrote:
They will be a big issues for sure, especially now that Necrons are back on the tob tables.

Tau can technically one round these models, but they need to inflict the MW on the movement phase with the bombers and then the wounds in melee with a relic commander or a lot of kroots.

Since when are Necron on top tables?


Early 9. Maybe point drops help but not proven yet. Data slate didn't do nearly enough

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2022/01/21 13:18:41


2024 painted/bought: 109/109 
   
Made in gb
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sanguine40k wrote:
Some of the leaks have included a relic(?) Burst cannon that ignores wound limits and a warlord trait (I think?) that has a similar thing on 6's to wound.

But yeah, it will continue to be one of their weaknesses.

I think that WL trait might be two bullet points worth of rules, bullet point one is 6s to wound do X, bullet point two is ignore damage avoiding rules. We will see.

Another strat with Ghaz is just bop him on the head with the slow down missile prototype system every turn and ignore him.
   
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Annandale, VA

sanguine40k wrote:Some of the leaks have included a relic(?) Burst cannon that ignores wound limits


Oh for feth's sake. Can't wait for the 'no really it can't take more than X wounds per turn no matter what, super srs' rule next.

   
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Shas'la with Pulse Carbine





According to the leaks Tau have two ways to ignore such rules:
- a prototype Burst Cannon (not a relic, a weapon that costs more points like the Chapter Master upgrade for marines, yet still limited to 1 per army): 18" Assault 8 S6 Ap-1 D1, ignores feel no pain and Ghaz/Ctan rules.

- a warlord trait, limited to Farsight Enclaves.
Master of the Killing Blow: on all attacks, unmodified wound rolls of 6 are resolved at +3 Ap and wounds caused by this model attacks ignore feel no pain and Ghaz/Ctan rules.

Ghaz can't be slowed down with the prototype missile pods as he's not infantry, beast or cavalry.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/01/22 07:40:31



 
   
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 catbarf wrote:
sanguine40k wrote:Some of the leaks have included a relic(?) Burst cannon that ignores wound limits


Oh for feth's sake. Can't wait for the 'no really it can't take more than X wounds per turn no matter what, super srs' rule next.


Yup.

Also, to the OP's question...who gives a a damn? There is like 2-3 models in the game with those rules and the one I am more familiar with is Ghaz who is a steaming pile of crap right now.

hell, if your opponent takes Ghaz you should probably give him a 150pt handicap to take more units which won't suck

 Tomsug wrote:
Semper krumps under the radar

 
   
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NE Ohio, USA

SemperMortis wrote:
 catbarf wrote:
sanguine40k wrote:Some of the leaks have included a relic(?) Burst cannon that ignores wound limits


Oh for feth's sake. Can't wait for the 'no really it can't take more than X wounds per turn no matter what, super srs' rule next.


Yup.

Also, to the OP's question...who gives a a damn? There is like 2-3 models in the game with those rules


Any Tau players who's likely to face those models would be my 1st guess.
After that? Those of us who play such models.
   
Made in us
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ccs wrote:
SemperMortis wrote:
 catbarf wrote:
sanguine40k wrote:Some of the leaks have included a relic(?) Burst cannon that ignores wound limits


Oh for feth's sake. Can't wait for the 'no really it can't take more than X wounds per turn no matter what, super srs' rule next.


Yup.

Also, to the OP's question...who gives a a damn? There is like 2-3 models in the game with those rules


Any Tau players who's likely to face those models would be my 1st guess.
After that? Those of us who play such models.


So Tau have relics and abilities which ignore the rule, then there is the fact that Overwatch is itself a separate phase. So turn 1 strip 4 wounds, turn 2 strip 4 wounds, overwatch, strip 4 wounds, at worst strip 1-2 and then in CC either do 1-2 more or get wiped out and shoot it to death turn 3. Not that damn hard honestly. And the amusing part is, none of those models with those rules are really that good. Ghaz is hot garbage right now, so as mentioned, if someone does take him, you should be thanking them for the easy win

 Tomsug wrote:
Semper krumps under the radar

 
   
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Mississippi

 catbarf wrote:
sanguine40k wrote:Some of the leaks have included a relic(?) Burst cannon that ignores wound limits


Oh for feth's sake. Can't wait for the 'no really it can't take more than X wounds per turn no matter what, super srs' rule next.


Invulnerable Wounds stats or somesuch.

It never ends well 
   
Made in ca
Preacher of the Emperor






I assume the inevitable conclusion is to accept that you're going to take longer to destroy these units in the rare case you face them. You can build some counters to them into your army but your best bet overall seems to be kill everything supporting them and play the objective.

That last part may still be difficult for Tau but lets see.

   
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 Captain Joystick wrote:
I assume the inevitable conclusion is to accept that you're going to take longer to destroy these units in the rare case you face them. You can build some counters to them into your army but your best bet overall seems to be kill everything supporting them and play the objective.

That last part may still be difficult for Tau but lets see.


Possibly, possibly not. Where I played a lot when 8th was still around we had another ork player who routinely took the "new" Ghaz model. After I sledgehammered his Ghaz in 1 turn for the 4th or 5th time he realized that the "4 wounds per phase" rule is more of a gimmick than actually competitive. And before you ask "how can you kill ghaz in 1 turn" I'll make it even more fun for you, I didn't use psychic shenanigans

3 Scrapjets turn 1 shoot at Ghaz that was 6D3 rokkitz, 18 S5 BS5 Big shoota shots and 18 S5 BS4 big shoota shots. After all shenanigans it worked out to an average of 4dmg in the shooting phase. Charge phase, I would charge with all 3 scrapjets and use Ramming speed on 1. So on a 2+ I did D3 mortals, and on a 4+ on all 3 scrapjets I did more mortals worked out to again about 4 . In CC thats 12 attacks, 6 hits, 4 wounds and 2 failed saves for 2D3 dmg averages 4. Congrats, 12 wound ghaz dead in 1 turn by 3 scrapjets, who cost basically the same amount.

realistically, especially with all the BS shenanigans going on with ignoring the max wounds per phase rule, ghaz needs his rules updated to be at least 16 wounds or failing that, change his rule to 4 wounds PER TURN. Otherwise hes just a giant liability unit.

 Tomsug wrote:
Semper krumps under the radar

 
   
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It’s just weird to me how many units just didn’t change one bit going into 9th for orks. Most got worse actually now I think about it, for some reason even makari was nerfed. They nerfed the grot.

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SemperMortis wrote:


Possibly, possibly not. Where I played a lot when 8th was still around we had another ork player who routinely took the "new" Ghaz model. After I sledgehammered his Ghaz in 1 turn for the 4th or 5th time he realized that the "4 wounds per phase" rule is more of a gimmick than actually competitive. And before you ask "how can you kill ghaz in 1 turn" I'll make it even more fun for you, I didn't use psychic shenanigans

3 Scrapjets turn 1 shoot at Ghaz that was 6D3 rokkitz, 18 S5 BS5 Big shoota shots and 18 S5 BS4 big shoota shots. After all shenanigans it worked out to an average of 4dmg in the shooting phase. Charge phase, I would charge with all 3 scrapjets and use Ramming speed on 1. So on a 2+ I did D3 mortals, and on a 4+ on all 3 scrapjets I did more mortals worked out to again about 4 . In CC thats 12 attacks, 6 hits, 4 wounds and 2 failed saves for 2D3 dmg averages 4. Congrats, 12 wound ghaz dead in 1 turn by 3 scrapjets, who cost basically the same amount.

realistically, especially with all the BS shenanigans going on with ignoring the max wounds per phase rule, ghaz needs his rules updated to be at least 16 wounds or failing that, change his rule to 4 wounds PER TURN. Otherwise hes just a giant liability unit.


sounds like he repeatedly massively missplayed ghaz if he was in charge range of scrapjets, especially after it already happened to him....
   
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 VladimirHerzog wrote:
SemperMortis wrote:


Possibly, possibly not. Where I played a lot when 8th was still around we had another ork player who routinely took the "new" Ghaz model. After I sledgehammered his Ghaz in 1 turn for the 4th or 5th time he realized that the "4 wounds per phase" rule is more of a gimmick than actually competitive. And before you ask "how can you kill ghaz in 1 turn" I'll make it even more fun for you, I didn't use psychic shenanigans

3 Scrapjets turn 1 shoot at Ghaz that was 6D3 rokkitz, 18 S5 BS5 Big shoota shots and 18 S5 BS4 big shoota shots. After all shenanigans it worked out to an average of 4dmg in the shooting phase. Charge phase, I would charge with all 3 scrapjets and use Ramming speed on 1. So on a 2+ I did D3 mortals, and on a 4+ on all 3 scrapjets I did more mortals worked out to again about 4 . In CC thats 12 attacks, 6 hits, 4 wounds and 2 failed saves for 2D3 dmg averages 4. Congrats, 12 wound ghaz dead in 1 turn by 3 scrapjets, who cost basically the same amount.

realistically, especially with all the BS shenanigans going on with ignoring the max wounds per phase rule, ghaz needs his rules updated to be at least 16 wounds or failing that, change his rule to 4 wounds PER TURN. Otherwise hes just a giant liability unit.


sounds like he repeatedly massively missplayed ghaz if he was in charge range of scrapjets, especially after it already happened to him....


You either move him forward to do things and buff infantry or you leave him cowering in the backfield to guard something that doesn't need ghaz guarding it And if you kill enough boyz to make a hole for hte scrapjets it fairly easy to plink him off the table.

 Tomsug wrote:
Semper krumps under the radar

 
   
 
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