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Made in us
Been Around the Block




I wanted to share this to get community feedback and thoughts on the current state of (US based) Forge World quality. I've been in love with Titanicus from it's announcement - I was too young to be part of Epic back in the day. I'm an avid collector, my bank account bleeds for Warhammer. I finally took the plunge into Forge World in the last year and it's been... Rough. Full orders needing full replacements. Shameful casts. Mini battles with support, though I know it's not their fault. The QA... does not exist. If it comes out of a mold it goes into a blister.

I share with you my recent collection of photos of my Armigers and Knights from Titanicus. Will see how asking for replacements for basically the full body of each model goes...

Am I crazy? I'm certainly picky about my casts, but if I can reasonably fix it I'm happy to. Hard to fix big slips, big height differences, missing detail, etc.

https://imgur.com/a/wCv95Pw

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/01/25 16:43:43


 
   
Made in gb
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On an Express Elevator to Hell!!

From my experience of purchasing models generally, I think resin is just an extremely difficult medium to work with and produce consistent, high quality results.

These days there are very few resin manufacturers in the model kit world (aircraft, tanks, ships etc) and the modellers that work with it a lot are, from my experience on modelling forums, almost viewed as kind of mad scientists, with a combination of respect and head-shaking as to why a modeller would choose that medium when plastic is available so cheaply, and of much higher quality.

So I don't think it's just GW or FW in this instance, but rather the medium.

The question then becomes, well why aren't those items produced in plastic? You often read about price barriers to setting up moulds, and yet lots of (relatively, compared to GW) very small plastic kit manufacturers manage to produce sprues for items that surely must sell in quantities far smaller than some of the FW lines, and there are often multiple examples of the same type of aircraft or vehicle available.
So I would conclude in this case it's GW's monopoly of their own lines, no competitors producing a higher quality product at a lower price, that means that FW can continue to sell such items at such a high price.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/01/25 16:58:35


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The Netherlands

Can’t wait for Vanguard Miniatures to do their updated versions of the Stalkers. The very small ones will be metal cast, with the bigger stuff being either resin cast or Print on Demand.

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Texas

axotl wrote:
I wanted to share this to get community feedback and thoughts on the current state of (US based) Forge World quality. I've been in love with Titanicus from it's announcement - I was too young to be part of Epic back in the day. I'm an avid collector, my bank account bleeds for Warhammer. I finally took the plunge into Forge World in the last year and it's been... Rough. Full orders needing full replacements. Shameful casts. Mini battles with support, though I know it's not their fault. The QA... does not exist. If it comes out of a mold it goes into a blister.

I share with you my recent collection of photos of my Armigers and Knights from Titanicus. Will see how asking for replacements for basically the full body of each model goes...

Am I crazy? I'm certainly picky about my casts, but if I can reasonably fix it I'm happy to. Hard to fix big slips, big height differences, missing detail, etc.

https://imgur.com/a/wCv95Pw


Mold slips are not that unexpected in the resin casting process, and I have in the past "fixed" the pieces myself if the mold slippage is not too egregious.

That said, you are definitely not crazy for expecting better quality given FW prices and GW NA fulfillment performance as of late in particular, and I for one hope that you get suitable replacements soon. I agree that what you received is quite clearly not acceptable workmanship and you shouldn’t have to apologize for wanting what you paid for or what GW apologists think is acceptable.

Unfortunately given the extent of the defects, I am guessing an entire casting lot was affected and so everything GW NA has on hand at the moment likely has similar defects.

This is the type of product quality that only encourages people to turn to resin 3D printing which I am considering taking the plunge in myself so as to avoid this very type of issue, or at least have better control of the QA process. If GW or any other 3rd party resin caster wants to stay in business, they need to understand that good QA and customer service is a critical component of their product offering. Just because they have an incredible design counts for little if they fail to produce it with an acceptable level of quality.

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Second Story Man





Austria

FW had been one of the worst Resin casters since they exist

You can get replacements and it can take a while until you get all the right parts in the right quality (by the time you have a Thunderhawk you will have 2 tables with crashed ones for your club, if you are "lucky")

and this is not "the medium" in general, mold slips can happen, miscats as well, in metal, resin and plastic, bit what you have is not typical for Resin, but typical for FW/GW Resin

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Sometimes dakkites make me feel like a massive weirdo for enjoying working with resin. Only aspect I don't like is the mold release cleanup process (but I bought a large ultrasonic cleaner to take care of that problem for me). Otherwise IMO its got better detail than plastic and its easier to assemble and work with (especially for conversions) than metal. Seems like a solid middle ground material.

CoALabaer wrote:
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Made in no
Longtime Dakkanaut






I dont know.
Living in scandenavia i get my FW from uk, i bought the resin weapons for the warlord, they was in better quality then the plastic sprues from GW. (mind you, this was pre covid)

Sad to hear there is production quality differences out there, considering the price range on FW.

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Made in au
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I recently received a bundle of stuff from FW including some older DKOK models and AI Arvus Lighters.

The Arvus Lighters I'm really disappointed with, they look like they have 3D printing lines on them. Maybe it'll go away with a primer, at least I hope it does, it's very noticeable on the raw resin.

There's also supports that look like 3D printing supports (as in, supports that don't look like they need to exist on a resin model, but would on a 3D printed model). In addition to that the detail just does not look as sharp as I've had on previous FW models.

I bought a whole pile of the original 6mm scale Aeronautica stuff from FW around 10 years ago, and that stuff had really impressive crisp detail.

The DKOK stuff I got from FW looks fine though. They'd all be 10+ year old sculpts I'm guessing.

Just to be clear, I'm in Australia, so my FW stuff came from the UK store and is addressed from Nottingham, not the US FW store.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
chaos0xomega wrote:
Sometimes dakkites make me feel like a massive weirdo for enjoying working with resin. Only aspect I don't like is the mold release cleanup process (but I bought a large ultrasonic cleaner to take care of that problem for me). Otherwise IMO its got better detail than plastic and its easier to assemble and work with (especially for conversions) than metal. Seems like a solid middle ground material.


I think resin is an okay material to work with, but I reckon a lot of people get put off when they get a bad resin model that they have to fix up. The main other place I encounter resin models is upgrade kits for historical scale aircraft models, where I've had issues with it being very hard and brittle and difficult to work with.

Most my FW resin models have been great and I like the detail that resin affords. But in the past I've had models with mould slips, and you're left wondering if it's bad enough to try and get a replacement or fix it. I've also had a mould slip on a model that was unfortunately OOP, so FW wouldn't offer me a replacement.

And these Arvus Lighters are a bit disappointed for the aforementioned reasons, I hope this doesn't become the trend for FW otherwise I sure as hell won't be paying premium prices for what amounts to recasts of average quality 3D prints.



This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2022/01/26 05:27:49


 
   
Made in at
Second Story Man





Austria

chaos0xomega wrote:
Sometimes dakkites make me feel like a massive weirdo for enjoying working with resin. Only aspect I don't like is the mold release cleanup process (but I bought a large ultrasonic cleaner to take care of that problem for me). Otherwise IMO its got better detail than plastic and its easier to assemble and work with (especially for conversions) than metal. Seems like a solid middle ground material.


I also like working with Resin, but thereis no 1 Resin out there and a lot of companies have their own mix.
Early PuppetsWars Resin was as terrible as the FW one, while their newer stuff is very good, Anvil Industry always on top, Mantic Resin as well, GWs Finecast is not worth talking about and whatever Warlord game has done it does not work (they bought into resin casting recently but either got bad raw material or don't know how to handle it)

PS: the joke here about FW is that it is very easy to spot Russian re-casts on ebay, if the model comes without mold slips, broken details and no bendings, it is a re-cast

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/01/26 14:08:16


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The Great State of New Jersey

Oh yeah, theres definitely some resin thats real bad and I don't enjoy so much (Finecast, though I think to some extent the shittiness of it is overstated). My Forgeworld recasts, especially those from eastern europe, are usually better than Forgeworlds products, but theres a lot of good resin out there - Hawk Wargames/TTCs Dropzone and Dropfleet resins have been good to me (I know some people have had issues with the TTC era stuff but I guess I've been lucky there), and I think I can give Para Bellums Conquest resins the award for the best resin minis I've ever worked with.

CoALabaer wrote:
Wargamers hate two things: the state of the game and change.
 
   
Made in gb
Joined the Military for Authentic Experience





On an Express Elevator to Hell!!

I think within a certain context resin can be fine, and it suits the kind of small garage seller or small but detailed components.

I think with Finecast it was more that it was heralded as 'the next big thing', I remember the amount of hyperbole when it came along, and then the finished product did not match that. You were asking customers to pay more, for a finished product that was a poorer quality - there were a number of well known hobbyists online who were getting through 6 or 7 of a sculpt trying to find one that wasn't pitted or miscast. That, I think along with GW being extremely belligerent towards the fan community at that time (I remember being on a forum where posts critical of Finecast were being removed, and discussion of the topic was banned) meant that I don't think you could possibly have given a worst impression and made the fan community less inclined to believe in the product. Other than by maybe packing some explosives inside the box.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/01/26 14:28:50


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chaos0xomega wrote:
Sometimes dakkites make me feel like a massive weirdo for enjoying working with resin. Only aspect I don't like is the mold release cleanup process (but I bought a large ultrasonic cleaner to take care of that problem for me). Otherwise IMO its got better detail than plastic and its easier to assemble and work with (especially for conversions) than metal. Seems like a solid middle ground material.


I enjoy working with resin as well. Its lovely to cut down into shape. I much prefer it over cutting plastic. It almost reminds me of carving wood, a very zen thing. Whereas dealing with platic I don't enjoy, no matter what I do it's always stressful to clean plastic and I almost never achieve a perfect result when cleaning mold lines etc, since the material has zero elasticity and the surface ruins easily.
   
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You're not crazy, some of those are not acceptable in my opinion, but the guns and some of the legs look manageable. If it's distorted in such a way that you can't make it look
how it's supposed to look then you should contact them but if you're planning on working with fw you should be comfortable fixing some amount of slippage. Unfortunately you're at the mercy of customer service so all you can do is ask for help as politely as possible; don't make demands just beg to be saved and when all else fails return for a refund and buy again later.

In forgeworld's defense though, they fix my problems most of the time. This is coming from someone who has emailed and called them dozens of times over the past decade and a half. I think you just have a case of typical bad luck with their QC exacerbated by such small fiddly models.

   
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FW has consistently been the worst caster I've bought from.
   
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Longtime Dakkanaut






Today, GW has their own CNC mill to make moulds for their injection moulding line or lines in Nottingham.
With a modern digitally modelling toolpath including software that splits the model into something that can be injection moulded, this drastically lowers the fixed cost for each sprue master.

Previously, there was a higher cost to designing models suitable for injection moulding and the production of the master.
That made it not commerically viable or at least risky to make low volume models in plastic.
Making Resin models has a significantly higher cost per unit, but very little fixed cost.

Casting models in resin is a craft that requires a lot more artisanal skill than running a CNC mill, 3D printer or other production machines.
Also, the silicon moulds do not last forever and have to be remade from master models.
That means it is critical that you have the right people in the workshop with enough time and quality control to ensure good product quality.

I have had problems with FW resin models too, but most models were ok.
For a resin model (non-infantry) I expect to do some sanding, correcting and fixing.
It's more like someone started carving something already, which you want to finish.

It's fair to say that my expectations are lower, which helps me not be disappointed. ;-]

   
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Fayetteville

 Pacific wrote:
From my experience of purchasing models generally, I think resin is just an extremely difficult medium to work with and produce consistent, high quality results.


I'm not sure that that's actually the case. FW is known for their problems. Finecast was a debacle from the start. But there are vendors out there making very nice resin kits. I've gotten 3 not-eldar kits from Artel W. They are fantastic. No mold slippage. No mold lines. No flash. The only issues were some small bubbles inside the vents that reveal themselves when you cut them off, but that's it. So producing quality resin casts is quite possible. FW and other producers simply choose not to.

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Regular Dakkanaut





Resin material definitely isn’t the problem. Plenty of quality, stellar resin sculpts out there. Problem is quite simply the enduring general prevalence of forge world and GWs lack of respect for their customers.
   
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On an Express Elevator to Hell!!

 Arschbombe wrote:
 Pacific wrote:
From my experience of purchasing models generally, I think resin is just an extremely difficult medium to work with and produce consistent, high quality results.


I'm not sure that that's actually the case. FW is known for their problems. Finecast was a debacle from the start. But there are vendors out there making very nice resin kits. I've gotten 3 not-eldar kits from Artel W. They are fantastic. No mold slippage. No mold lines. No flash. The only issues were some small bubbles inside the vents that reveal themselves when you cut them off, but that's it. So producing quality resin casts is quite possible. FW and other producers simply choose not to.


Yes that probably is true. I got some miniatures for Fallout recently (both official ones from Modiphius and some other sculpts from a Spanish company called Punkapocalyptic, and they were absolutely fantastic.

I have heard very good things about Artel W too - sure they are expensive, but incredible sculpts and good quality too.

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Don't hate resin, hate Forgeworld.

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The stuff I've ordered from FW the past couple years has been really good in terms of quality. I'm not surprised that those resin Knights have some issues though. Small and fiddley as someone else said.

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jesus thats some bad mold slip, i would contact them and see if you can either get a refund or get replacements sent.

IMO, FW kinda sucks in quality, truth be told i have seen recasts that are better then FW stuff.

To many unpainted models to count. 
   
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United States

axotl wrote:
I wanted to share this to get community feedback and thoughts on the current state of (US based) Forge World quality. I've been in love with Titanicus from it's announcement - I was too young to be part of Epic back in the day. I'm an avid collector, my bank account bleeds for Warhammer. I finally took the plunge into Forge World in the last year and it's been... Rough. Full orders needing full replacements. Shameful casts. Mini battles with support, though I know it's not their fault. The QA... does not exist. If it comes out of a mold it goes into a blister.

I share with you my recent collection of photos of my Armigers and Knights from Titanicus. Will see how asking for replacements for basically the full body of each model goes...

Am I crazy? I'm certainly picky about my casts, but if I can reasonably fix it I'm happy to. Hard to fix big slips, big height differences, missing detail, etc.

https://imgur.com/a/wCv95Pw


Strictly this is my opinion only.

The FW stuff isn't worth it. There has been a long-standing talking point going around that GW intends to phase out resin by X date. But then they go and start producing more junk in Resin.

For an experienced modeler, especially one who likes the act of modeling, the Resin is probably seen to them as a challenge. But to me, as a person who just wants to play games with cool looking toys, it's a massive pain in the rear. I'd love to have some Armigers, but since they're not plastic. I've skipped them. I really, really hope that if we get Epic 40k, they don't produce stuff in Resin. That would just kill it for me.
   
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Fayetteville

 Togusa wrote:

Strictly this is my opinion only.

The FW stuff isn't worth it.


The value proposition of FW stuff is different for everyone.


There has been a long-standing talking point going around that GW intends to phase out resin by X date. But then they go and start producing more junk in Resin.


I've not heard that GW wants to abandon resin across the entire range. Of course, we know they want to get away from finecast and make the entire citadel range in plastic, but that's not the same as getting rid of all resin.


For an experienced modeler, especially one who likes the act of modeling, the Resin is probably seen to them as a challenge.


Resin is a necessary evil. For boutique studios with low volumes resin is really the only way to go. They won't have the resources for metal or plastic. Learning to work with resin isn't so bad that people do it as a challenge. It's more the case that there is a model they want and it only comes in resin. So they learn. And some resin models are very easy to work with.



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