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Made in gb
Ridin' on a Snotling Pump Wagon






How do!

Becoming increasingly enchanted with the Kill Team offerings, and now having a FLGS in my newly adopted home town, and a need to found a geek circle, I’m giving serious thought to delving into Kill Team.

That, like Necromunda, it doesn’t involve massive effort to paint a force and is pretty wallet friendly, I may take the plunge once I’m back from my Scottish Holiday.

But I want to hear from folk who do play it, and who have played it. Please note that whilst I don’t mean to suggest your opinion is invalid if you’ve not played it, I don’t really need to hear from you, as I’m not sure how much it would add to this conversation.

Topics include, but are by no means limited to…

1. What do I need, barebones wise. Assumption here is I May end up being the organiser, as I can’t guarantee there’s an existing group.

2. What do I ideally need? What benefit do the individual books offer? Do I need them if I stick to the big ticket boxes?

3. Anything you wish you’d known when you’d started out.

   
Made in us
Irked Necron Immortal




I find it to be a fun time. Don't usually play small skirmish style games too often so I don't really have too much to compare it to. Games usually go about an hour. Faster when you know your models and rules of course.

Games are on one standard 30"x22.5" board. Some missions have suggested terrain layouts but aren't technically necessary to be used. Terrain variety is important in the game. Verticality matters as well.

Book wise you need, at the least, the Core Book and the Compendium. Core Book is your rules and contains info on how to play Matched or Narrative games along with some basic missions. Compendium contains all the various model and kill teams info and how to arrange them. (will touch on that farther down) The expansion books (Octarius and Chalnath) contain expanded rules for very specific kill teams. A good way to think of these books is Index (Compendium) vs Codex like at the start of 8th.

Tac-Ops Cards are your secondaries from the Core book in card form. You get 2 decks in one pack so if your opponent doesn't have a deck you're both covered.

While you don't technically need it, I highly suggest you get the Killzone Essentials which includes tokens, markers, barricades, and the measurement gauges. You could easily make your own if you wanted.

Model wise you can easily use what ever is in your collection already. Keep in mind that may not always translate into Kill Team every time. Kill teams are pre-set groups of models (fire-teams) with their own composition of rolls. For example GSC can bring 2 fire-teams from a selection of 7 Neophytes, 5 Hybrids, or 5 Metamorphs. If I wanted to bring Metamorphs 2 of the 5 can be the Gunner roll which get hand flamers with the other 3 being Fighters which get auto-pistols. (I only own 5 Metamorphs & all have hand flamers so I can't legally use the Metamorph fire-team.) Kill Teams have access to equipment that can be purchased for Requisition Points. You get 10 points for your kill team in matched play

Range generally isn't a thing. If you can see a valid target you can shoot it. Only certain weapons have range, like flamers and pistols. Movement is done in straight lines and measured using the shapes, not inches, on the measuring gauges.

Games are 4 rounds and are played in Alternate Activation. Each player starts with 3 CP and earns 1 at the start of each game turn. Players roll for initiative at the start of each game turn. Winner can decide who goes 1st and also determines how rules order resolve if two abilities trigger at the same time.
   
Made in gb
Ridin' on a Snotling Pump Wagon






I accept this is going to be heavily “matter of opinion”, but how does it stack up to say, X-Wing, in terms of player skill being the determining factor?

I ask as whilst there’s nothing wrong, and indeed quite a lot desirable in your tactics, strategy and nous being of import, it can make the game not much fun if your opponents simply seek to ROFLstomp you when you’re starting out. If it is, I’ll need to be cautious about how I get going, as nothing demotivates me in a game where I’m just a whipping boy for a more experienced player’s previous WLD Ratio.

   
Made in pl
Fixture of Dakka




In general the armies who have Kill Team kill teams are in a much better state, then armies that have to be run out of a core book, as they lack all the special gear, unit rules etc.

So if your opponent brings novitiates or pathfinders, and you drop 5 assault intercessors the game maybe a bit one sided. Even if both players are new.
Sorry 6 assault intercessors, I forgot about the last update.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/05/16 10:56:07


If you have to kill, then kill in the best manner. If you slaughter, then slaughter in the best manner. Let one of you sharpen his knife so his animal feels no pain. 
   
Made in gb
Ridin' on a Snotling Pump Wagon






That’s useful to know if I’m to run a campaign. Might go with Necromunda first, let KT play some catch up and get more specialised squads out.

   
Made in pl
Fixture of Dakka




Mind you playing with the new kill teams, and there are more then a few now, is fun. And while inbalances exist they are no where near what w40k has. Plus 1-2 boxs is often all you need. And , at least locally here, people tend to convert a lot and play counts as.

For example I play my GK terminators as custodes, because otherwise I would have no legal army to play in KT.

If you have to kill, then kill in the best manner. If you slaughter, then slaughter in the best manner. Let one of you sharpen his knife so his animal feels no pain. 
   
Made in ch
The Dread Evil Lord Varlak





Karol wrote:
Mind you playing with the new kill teams, and there are more then a few now, is fun. And while inbalances exist they are no where near what w40k has. Plus 1-2 boxs is often all you need. And , at least locally here, people tend to convert a lot and play counts as.

For example I play my GK terminators as custodes, because otherwise I would have no legal army to play in KT.


This, also its a tighter ruleset, and the teams that already got kits play and are customizable to a fault.

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page
A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.
GW:"Space marines got too many options to balance, therefore we decided to legends HH units."
Players: "why?!? Now we finally got decent plastic kits and you cut them?"
Chaos marines players: "Since when are Daemonengines 30k models and why do i have NO droppods now?"
GW" MONEY.... erm i meant TOO MANY OPTIONS (to resell your army to you again by disalowing former units)! Do you want specific tyranid fighiting Primaris? Even a new sabotage lieutnant!"
Chaos players: Guess i stop playing or go to HH.  
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut



London

It is best described as straightforward. The rules take some understanding as not that well explained, but once to get the hang of it the game plays quickly, has a fair amount of variety and has choices at the design (pick 20 guys), selection (pick the right 4-14 guys for the opponent, mission and board set up), deployment (simple bidding system of choice of three states giving minor advantages, who goes where, sentry moves, use of CPs for minor boosts), and tactics mostly revolving around who to activate and whether to use limited pool of CPs for buffs. Models interact with terrain enough and it plays relatively quickly. Campaign is simple and good enough to link battles between people with variable attendance.

I prefer it to necro as quicker set up, quicker play time, none of the bloody cards, and no policing of the groups power gamer (necro really relies on people not cheesing it and GM activities to reign in powerful gangs). If you cant have a good GM kill team all the way. But with the right group necro would be far more rewarding.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/05/16 13:48:22


 
   
Made in gb
Ridin' on a Snotling Pump Wagon






Oh I’m a good GM! At least, I understand what makes for a good GM!

   
Made in ca
Poisonous Kroot Headhunter





1. Barebones wise, you need the base rulebook and (at least for hosting games) the Compendium. You need the little triangle tokens, but I'm sure you could print something comparable in a pinch. Plus a reasonable amount of climbable terrain. Oh, and the little plastic deployable terrain, but again, you could probably use something comparable in a pinch.

2. Ideally, you don't actually need all that much more. Each of the expansions comes with a solid set of terrain, 9 specific missions for use with that terrain. Most of which are quite fun and many that are asymmetric (my personal favorite is still the assault on the fuel depot from Octarius, though I haven't played as many of the new ones yet). Not all are super well balanced though, the Evac Inbound one from Octarius heavily favors the attacker. Still the baseline missions are plenty good to use with a variety of terrain, and you can easily come up with custom missions, so while fun, they are by no means necessary.

3. The most important thing I think for a new Kill Team player to be aware of: To keep things balanced, if you're playing an army from the compendium, play against another army from the compendium. If you've got one of the expansion armies, play against another expansion army. The armies from the various kits and WD articles are stronger and far more adaptable than most of the compendium armies, and it is quite noticeable.

Overall, Kill Team is a lot of fun. I've had plenty of very close games and even a few ties. While not perfect (what is) I think it is really well designed, easy to get into, and a has a lot of replayability, with very little investment compared to something like 40k.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2022/05/16 16:10:44


17210 4965 3235 5350 2936 2273 1176 2675
1614 1342 1010 2000 960 1330 1040  
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut



London

Oh and whether or not you get the books, the wahapedia set is better laid out and updated...
   
Made in ca
Longtime Dakkanaut





A word about Compendium KT's vs. Custom KT's:

With compendium Kill Teams, most factions have a build that consists of 2 Fireteams. This is how you get models from different units working in the same KT: you don't add them as individual models, but as fire teams, and each FT tends to be drawn from a single dataslate.

With Drukhari, for example, you could take two FT of 5 Wyches each, or two FT of 5 Kabalites each or one of each for a mixed team.

With the Custom teams, the KTs so far seem to be just a single entity, with each member of the team chosen from a list which includes all of the specialized models as a limited option.

While the Custom teams are cool because they have the extra options and gear, the ease with which Compendium style, Fire Team based KTs fit into standard 40k rosters makes them very interesting.

If you play Campaign style, the XP level breaks occur at the same point as they do in Crusade. So you can switch models from KT to 40K fairly seamlessly. I run Gestalt models- meaning every a model levels, no matter which game I happen to be playing, I give them a battle honour for both KT and Crusade. Obviously, only the battle honours for the game the model is engaged in are active.

This can be a bit awkward because BH are given per model in KT and per unit in Crusade, so if you are porting from KT to Crusade, you squads can only use as many BH as the least experienced member of the unit.

Another feature of KT Campaigns that I really like is the base of operations. This is designed to be an abstraction; when your campaign begins, there are no special rules associated with the Base of Operations, so you can pick what it is based on your fluff. But as you earn victories, you can add assets to your Base of Operations to confer additional abilities.

While these things are designed to be abstractions, if you are playing a map based campaign, they could be actual territories. You may also have terrain that can depicted these bases of operations and their associated assets. It's a very cool element of the game.

Finally: KT is better with White Dwarf. You want to check every month to see if there is a specialized KT in it, because this is how many of the specialized teams are being released into the game. I fully expect there will be an annual this year. So far we have specialized teams for Harlequins, GSC, and Ksons thanks to White Dwarf. I may even have missed one.
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut






PenitentJake wrote:

Finally: KT is better with White Dwarf. You want to check every month to see if there is a specialized KT in it, because this is how many of the specialized teams are being released into the game. I fully expect there will be an annual this year. So far we have specialized teams for Harlequins, GSC, and Ksons thanks to White Dwarf. I may even have missed one.

AdMech! (WD468)

Didn't realise there'd been a GsC one – anyone know which issue?
   
Made in ca
Longtime Dakkanaut





The GSC were issue 472.

Here's the Goonhammer take on the team:

https://www.goonhammer.com/white-dwarf-472-wyrmblade-kill-teams-review/

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/05/17 13:28:19


 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut






PenitentJake wrote:
The GSC were issue 472.

Here's the Goonhammer take on the team:

https://www.goonhammer.com/white-dwarf-472-wyrmblade-kill-teams-review/

Nice one, cheers!

Seems like you can't have Acolytes, which is W E I R D.
   
Made in ca
Longtime Dakkanaut





All the GSC KT stuff is weird.

No GSC list ever has allowed Purestrains. As they form the first generation of a GSC, it is literally impossible to tell the story of the foundation of a Genestealer Cult.

I've been working on a Custom KT/ Compendium Hybrid called a Primogenitor Kill Team. The project is temporarily on hold while I finish painting the rest of my Space Hulk models, because they will feature in the battle that starts my GSC Crusade, and I want them fully painted so I can batrep the game.

And yes, it's weird to start a KT/ Crusade Hybrid roster with a game of Space Hulk, but no one ever accused me of being someone who plays 40k in a way that anyone would describe as typical.
   
Made in fi
Longtime Dakkanaut






Kill Team is plenty of fun, yeah. I used it as an excuse to start a small post-apocalyptic Unification Wars project with some pals to create funny one-off projects, which has currently ballooned to five teams and associated terrain stuff

The current version is a solid frame for quick, roughly one hour bashes when you don't need a lot of extra bells and whistles like you'd have in, say, Necromunda or many non-GW skirmish games. The short nature of the matches forces the pub-corner brawl nature of the thing to the fore but the mission focused scenario structure means that just pushing your guys into range and rolling lots of dice is a surefire way to lose. In skilled hands and with adequate terrain the balance between teams is reasonably good with both simpler and more complex crews available. Compendium teams are not necessarily straight up weaker than the "proper" teams we're constantly getting more of through the box sets and White Dwarf articles, but they are undeniably more barebones without their own faction agendas and such.

To get started, models and internet access is fine. To get started with official publications, any of the big boxes with teams that interest you is fine. Core rules, a handful of order tokens (official or homemade) and some team lists from the Compendium, WD, expansion books or similar publications is all you need. Well, 4-6 barricades of 2"x1" dimensions as well, but any comparable scatter terrain will do for those, really. The big boxes come with their relevant expansion books, which usually add some new terrain rule ideas (based on what terrain comes in the box), two team lists and narrative stuff with background and some related missions. They've been a mostly enjoyable read thus far, the art direction with the gritty comic stuff is also pretty good.

#ConvertEverything blog with loyalist Death Guard in true and Epic scales. Also Titans and killer robots! C&C welcome.
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/717557.page

Do you like narrative gaming? Ongoing Imp vs. PDF rebellion campaign reports here:
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/786958.page

 
   
Made in fi
Buttons Should Be Brass, Not Gold!






 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:


...

1. What do I need, barebones wise. Assumption here is I May end up being the organiser, as I can’t guarantee there’s an existing group.

2. What do I ideally need? What benefit do the individual books offer? Do I need them if I stick to the big ticket boxes?

3. Anything you wish you’d known when you’d started out.


1. You need the Core Rules, Tac Ops Cards, tokens and barricades. And obvsly you need terrain and models, but I'm assuming you already have plenty. I recommend buying the cheapest starter box, as this will give you all of the essentials, plus you get two teams worth of models for free, which you can sell to make up for some of the price of the starter. If you end up being the organizer, and want players with existing 40K armies to join, the Compendium book will probably be a required investment unless you resort to apps such as *******

2. Ideally, you need all the KillTeam boxes, Compendium and White Dwarf magazines which contain KT21 material. So that's Octarius (if you buy this you can skip the starter), Chalnath, Nachmund and WDs with rules for Hunter Clade, Warpcoven, Broodcoven, Void Dancers, as well as the current WD issue with the KT21 Sentry rules.

Every KT21 campaign box comes with it's own book, which covers missions and datasheets for playing with the models and the terrain that comes specifically in that box. Each box, aside from Octarius, is laid out so that one of the teams is a completely new multipart plastic kit, and the opposing team is an existing 40K plastic kit with an "upgrade sprue" added to it. Terrain is usually recycled from existing 40K terrain, besides Octarius.

New campaign box is released once every fiscal quarter, and whenever a new box gets released, individual items from the previous box (campaign book, terrain set, new team kit and the old kit+upgrade sprue) are also released.

3. Victory in KT21 always comes from playing against the mission as much as playing against the opponent's team. You must make every turning point count, or you will find yourself running out of time before having scored enough VPs. While concealing your models keeps them (mostly) safe from enemy fire, you don't have the luxury of playing toi cautiously, because the games are very short IRL

I really like KillTeam and it has become my main GW game now that our regular 40K group disintegrated during the Covid lockdown years. I started my 40K journey with Rogue Trader, so the more skirmish scale of KT21 is where my heart is at. I also like the alternative activation aspect of the game, which keeps me engaged throughout the whole game, no waiting for ages for my opponent to finish their turn.

So far, I have bought Octarius, split bought Nachmund (got the campaign book and the Corsairs) with a friend, and bought the Chalnath campaign book individually from ebay. I want to have all the missions, which is why I have collected all the current campaign books released (Octarius, Chalnath, Nachmund). I got enough models and terrain so I don't need much besides the books, Corsairs were a long time craving for me from the RT years so I had to get those though!

This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2022/05/17 17:37:29


 
   
Made in us
Been Around the Block




Kill Team is fun. I find the experience more fun then a full 2k 40k game honestly.

My best advice honestly though is don't read the rules. They're a pain to try and figure out. Dont watch a video. Its easy to get lost with it.

Have someone physically teach you and play out 2 games. You'll learn everything from almost just that. It's actually very simple, its just HORRIBLY worded.

For what you NEED, a single troop box lol.

For what you WANT, a cheap starter set with the tokens, core book, ruler/'cade sprue, etc. If its too expensive for your blood or hard to find there are tons of 3rd party options though.

I say skip the compendium and use wahpedia. It should have never been a separate purchase...
   
Made in au
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Talk me through Kill Team
Ever been sitting around doing nothing and thought to yourself: "Man, the wheel sure is a good invention but... but maybe it should be... I dunno... reinvented?".

Now you're thinking with Kill-Team.







Industrial Insanity - My Terrain Blog
"GW really needs to understand 'Less is more' when it comes to AoS." - Wha-Mu-077

 
   
Made in pl
Fixture of Dakka




That is how we got spokes on wheels and those were a great improvment over the original version of the wooden wheel.

If you have to kill, then kill in the best manner. If you slaughter, then slaughter in the best manner. Let one of you sharpen his knife so his animal feels no pain. 
   
Made in ca
Longtime Dakkanaut





 H.B.M.C. wrote:
 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Talk me through Kill Team
Ever been sitting around doing nothing and thought to yourself: "Man, the wheel sure is a good invention but... but maybe it should be... I dunno... reinvented?".

Now you're thinking with Kill-Team.



Nah. The campaign system in all previous versions of Kill Team pales in comparison to spec ops.

Now sure, GW could have added the campaign system we have to the previous version of KT, but without it or something like it KT couldn't be as good as it is now.
   
Made in fi
Longtime Dakkanaut






PenitentJake wrote:


Nah. The campaign system in all previous versions of Kill Team pales in comparison to spec ops.

Now sure, GW could have added the campaign system we have to the previous version of KT, but without it or something like it KT couldn't be as good as it is now.


Can't say I'm surprised to see you like the Spec Ops system, Jake

I'm pretty chuffed about it as well, we've got a short SpecOp-campaign coming in June. Compared to the previous edition's nothingburger, it reads as a welcome little narrative framing device to get everyone on board without requiring a fully bespoke campaign write-up.

#ConvertEverything blog with loyalist Death Guard in true and Epic scales. Also Titans and killer robots! C&C welcome.
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/717557.page

Do you like narrative gaming? Ongoing Imp vs. PDF rebellion campaign reports here:
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/786958.page

 
   
Made in ca
Librarian with Freaky Familiar






I will now and forever shill for the fan made kill team Heralds of Ruin
http://heraldsofruin.net/

They basically take base killteam and then add more customization, flexability and more thematic actions on top of it.

My group played 7th ed HoR and it was hands down the most fun i ever had in the hobby. The kill teams are super flexable and let you play what you want.
Good example of this was with deathwing. I love deathwing terminators, but you could not run them in base kill team, however in HoR you could. So i ran like a 4 man deathwing terminator squad while everyone else was running like 10 man space marine squads and it was so much fun.

They also had rules for drop attacks that increased your damage.

I had one map where i had a terminator sitting up on a building laying into things with an atuo canon, a nob charged him, and my terminator tossed him off a roof, then on the next turn, while the nob was laying on the ground he jumped off and more or less atomic elbow dropped this nob with a powerfit for a D hit.
Normally in HoR if you have a casualty you have to roll to see what happens if he dies or is just injured, this nob did not get that, he was super turbo dead.

To many unpainted models to count. 
   
Made in fi
Longtime Dakkanaut






The problem I had with HoR was that despite the small force sizes, it still used the janky turn structure of the base game.

For similar fan projects, I'd also mention Ossified Mods: https://ossifiedsite.wordpress.com/
Thus far they've done some pretty evocative work on creating lists for 30k legions, Badab War armies and so forth.

#ConvertEverything blog with loyalist Death Guard in true and Epic scales. Also Titans and killer robots! C&C welcome.
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/717557.page

Do you like narrative gaming? Ongoing Imp vs. PDF rebellion campaign reports here:
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/786958.page

 
   
Made in gb
Fixture of Dakka





Something worth considering is the fan project "Age of Darkness" which adds Heresy-era Legions to the current edition of Kill Team.

If you'd prefer some loyalist vs traitor action then you'd only have to get the starter set for the rules and essentials. By the looks of it you'd only need the compendium for the other Heresy-era factions such as Ad-Mech, Custodes and IG.

With the new Horus Heresy edition about to drop, and probably won't ever see official skirmish rules, this is worth a butchers.

Casual gaming, mostly solo-coop these days.

 
   
Made in fi
Buttons Should Be Brass, Not Gold!






I'm looking forward to playing the new KT21 Sentry Missions myself. T'au Stealth Suits seem a bit OP for them, but other than that they seem well entertaining!
   
 
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