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Noticed this while scrolling through the new 'Nids book, but I think it may also be applicable to some other units in the game:

Codex Tyranids - Lictor wrote:While this model is receiving the benefit of cover, it cannot be selected as the target of a ranged attack if the attacker is more than 12" away.

If I have a unit or a weapon which ignores cover, does this also circumvent the 12" restriction?

I don’t believe so, as Ignores Cover removes all benefits from Terrain traits, whereas this is an ability that kicks in when in cover.

Relevant Rare Rules section: “If a rule says that the target unit ‘does not receive the benefit of cover’, without specifying what benefits are ignored, then, when resolving an attack with that rule, models in the target unit ignore all benefits received from all terrain traits, including those that improve its saving throws, impose penalties on hit rolls and so on (e.g. Light Cover, Heavy Cover).”

But that feels hair-splitty as all heck!

 JohnnyHell wrote:
I don’t believe so, as Ignores Cover removes all benefits from Terrain traits, whereas this is an ability that kicks in when in cover.

Relevant Rare Rules section: “If a rule says that the target unit ‘does not receive the benefit of cover’, without specifying what benefits are ignored, then, when resolving an attack with that rule, models in the target unit ignore all benefits received from all terrain traits, including those that improve its saving throws, impose penalties on hit rolls and so on (e.g. Light Cover, Heavy Cover).”

But that feels hair-splitty as all heck!

According to the quoted text in the OP, the rule kicks in when it is receiving the benefit of cover, not merely being in cover. If a unit or weapon has a rule that says that a targeted unit does not receive the benefit of cover, then the Nid rule doesn't apply, as it is no longer receiving the benefit of cover, which is the requirement for the rule to activate.

There is no such thing as being in cover. When a unit is within an area terrain piece with the light, heavy, dense cover terrain trait, it is receiving the benefit of cover from it, pg 261. Therefore, it can be targeted from 12"+ when an enemy unit has an ability which lets it ignore cover.

What about the piece I quoted? I admit it’s tenuous feeling, but the Rate Rules says the model doesn’t get the benefits of terrain traits. The quoted rule is not a terrain trait benefit.

Tbh I’d likely play but as “sure crack on! Firing mortars into woods to flush out an invisible dude? Seems like a sound plan! Don’t forget your -1BS penalty”. But still, this is less tenuous than half the things proclaimed as RAW round here. Surprised neither response has addressed my quoted section.

I literally did address that. The nid rule says you must be receiving the benefits of cover for it to activate, your quoted rule says that if a rule doesn't specify what benefits it affects then it affects all terrain benefits. The benefits of cover are the traits of a particular terrain type. If all the traits of a terrain type are ignored by an attack, you are not receiving the benefit of cover, which is the trigger for the nid rule.

So if a rule says that targets do not get the benefit of cover then that ignores all terrain traits and the nid rule doesn't apply.

If a rule only removes certain benefits (such as only removing to hit penalties, but not save bonuses, for example), and the nid unit is in terrain which gives it benefits not removed, then the nid rule is still in effect.

What you're quoting doesn't matter- it just tells you what "not receiving the benefits of cover" means in most instances. Here you have an additional trigger that says you have to be receiving the benefits of cover - and we know the unit isn't - in order to benefit

Usually you need to attack a unit to ignore his benefits of cover, so if you can't target the unit the benefit cannot be ignored because you can't target it.

It would depend on the wording of the weapon that is ignoring cover. The ones that I looked at (at least, the ones that don't specify which benefits of cover they ignore, e.g. Light Cover) specified that the "ignore cover" rule only applies when making an attack with the weapon. Usually something along these lines:

Each time an attack is made with this weapon, the target does not receive the benefits of cover against that attack.

In this case, the weapon doesn't help because you are not permitted to select the Lictor as a target, which happens before making the attack.

Regardless of how you interpret the "not getting the benefits of cover" rules in this case, it would seem Cheex is correct. You need to select your target before using your weapon, at which point the Lictor isn't a valid target, so can't be selected.

That only applies where the "ignores cover" ability is for the weapon itself. If it's granted by a strat or equipment etc, it would likely work, assuming the wording of the strat didn't require you to select the target first.

 Cheex wrote:
It would depend on the wording of the weapon that is ignoring cover. The ones that I looked at (at least, the ones that don't specify which benefits of cover they ignore, e.g. Light Cover) specified that the "ignore cover" rule only applies when making an attack with the weapon. Usually something along these lines:

Each time an attack is made with this weapon, the target does not receive the benefits of cover against that attack.

In this case, the weapon doesn't help because you are not permitted to select the Lictor as a target, which happens before making the attack.

Great spot!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Gorgobola wrote:
Usually you need to attack a unit to ignore his benefits of cover, so if you can't target the unit the benefit cannot be ignored because you can't target it.

Ditto!