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Made in se
Longtime Dakkanaut





Just looking at the pre orders for kill team

It’s £125 for the box and you get 23 models and a bit of scenery. Feels like a lot especially when there’s a new kill team box every few months. And the Phobos primaris are based on an existing set of models.

Looking at the pre orders for necromunda it’s £150 worth of scenery. I know you don’t have to buy it and you can make your own or whatever but it’s just seems like a lot. And the. You have to buy you minis on top and paint it all, which is all time away from your 40K armies.

Would you branch out more if these games were cheaper? Or is there something else that puts you off playing the boxes games
   
Made in de
Ork Admiral Kroozin Da Kosmos on Da Hulk






Especially for kill team, the money and effort required to get game supplies and rules is way more of a buzzkill than extra models or terrain needed.

7 Ork facts people always get wrong:
Ragnar did not win against Thrakka, but suffered two crushing defeats within a few days of each other.
A lasgun is powerful enough to sever an ork's appendage or head in a single, well aimed shot.
Orks meks have a better understanding of electrics and mechanics than most Tech Priests.
Orks do not think that purple makes them harder to see. They do think that camouflage does however, without knowing why.
Gharkull Blackfang did not even come close to killing the emperor.
Orks can be corrupted by chaos, but few of them have any interest in what chaos offers.
Orks do not have the power of believe. 
   
Made in ie
Battleship Captain





The cost, also I don't want to support GW by buying their stuff. Also it all comes back to 40k anyway. There's been a lot of alternate games bought and never played but people just don't keep playing them because the meet ups are so infrequent (work, travel, children, life etc) that it's more efficient I guess to play a big 40k game than a small off-shoot game.


 
   
Made in de
Battlefield Tourist






Nuremberg

My impression of those games is that they're bloated with cards and counters and bespoke game tiles. Which leads me to be skeptical that the actual game design is going to be any good under all the bling.

I liked old specialist games that were still full wargames, stuff like Battlefleet Gothic, Mordheim, or Necromunda 2e. The modern stuff seems like it's got a different design philosophy that doesn't interest me.

   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut






Why would I possibly want to get in to Necromunda now with the absurd rule gouging, mountains of cards (many of which aren't even available to just buy from GW), abysmal rules quality?
Plus they still haven't even got around to updating my Ratskins, and when they do they'll probably be changed almost beyond recognition.
   
Made in ie
Battleship Captain





 Lord Damocles wrote:
Why would I possibly want to get in to Necromunda now with the absurd rule gouging, mountains of cards (many of which aren't even available to just buy from GW), abysmal rules quality?
Plus they still haven't even got around to updating my Ratskins, and when they do they'll probably be changed almost beyond recognition.


I was talking to a friend yesterday about this and realised that GW is pushing out Necromunda content as fast as possible to catch up to the amount of content available with the other popular skirmish games like Infinity and Malifaux. Can't have competitors have more models than a GW game.


 
   
Made in gb
Storm Trooper with Maglight





Whether a game appeals to me, how much space I have to store more models, and cost. Probably other factors too but these are the points I can think of off the top of my head.

To use one example, i haven’t bought into Necromunda Ash Wastes yet, despite collecting Necromunda. The box set simply doesn’t have everything required to run a decent campaign. I want to wait and see what is needed to run a campaign, then I’ll judge whether I buy into the game or not.

I also don’t collect Age of Sigmar. The setting simply doesn’t appeal to me. I might get on board the Warhammer Fantasy rerelease, though I think it’s going to have to be pretty amazing to get me to collect armies I don’t already own.
   
Made in us
Insect-Infested Nurgle Chaos Lord






Several factors, such as space, worth my time of investment, whether the minis appeal to me and value for money.

As much as I'd love to play Necromunda it fails at several of those hurdles, namely as no one plays it round here, games of anything seem few and far between, so branching out into a niche of a niche is not a good idea right now. It is also laden down with so many different books that it it not worth investing in them as GW treats them, like all their other books right now as expendable chaff that are quite literally not worth the paper they are printed on.

Blood Bowl has never appealed to me as I simply do not like the real world game it is based on so nothing it ever does will get me to like it.

I have a force for AoS due to easy cross pollination of Chaos daemon units. All I needed was a few characters to add to my daemons and I had an army (he says this whilst also having added 30 Blightkings and other mortal units...)


Games Workshop Delenda Est.

Users on ignore- 53.

If you break apart my or anyone else's posts line by line I will not read them. 
   
Made in gb
Preparing the Invasion of Terra






Time. When I was a yoof I played 40k, AoS, HH, Necromunda, LotR and Silver Tower regularly. Now it's almost always HH. I've started to get back into Necromunda with a Helot gang using converted Pox Walkers but I sold my AoS, LotR and a chunk of my 40k stuff in recent years and I'm weighing up selling more 40k stuff. I just don't have the time to enjoy and understand playing 3/4 40k armies, 2 HH armies and a Necromunda gang.
   
Made in gb
Executing Exarch





Mostly time,


I only get to game once a week and whilst I have the minis to support both a 40k and Kill Team habit, I'd rather just play other games with my limited gaming window, oh and GW's refusal to redo BFG is starting to feel personal...

"AND YET YOU ACT AS IF THERE IS SOME IDEAL ORDER IN THE WORLD, AS IF THERE IS SOME...SOME RIGHTNESS IN THE UNIVERSE BY WHICH IT MAY BE JUDGED." 
   
Made in it
Waaagh! Ork Warboss




Italy

It depends. To me it's entirely on the miniatures. Necromunda ones for example look fantastic and I started collecting them long before I actually got to play a game.

Starting a new 40k faction or even expanding an already existing one might be much more time and money consuming these days. That's why I've been done with buying more 40k stuff since early 8th edition, it's simply too expensive and requires too much effort. Diving into a specialist game might be cheaper and easier. Most of those games don't require being ready for standardized games: Necromunda for example is based on campaigns so it's perfectly fine to stick with rules from a few books, ignore the rest of the rules and/or the cards completely, like me and my group have always done.

 
   
Made in de
Contagious Dreadnought of Nurgle





I play Lotr as well so I don't have interest in another Fantasy skirmish system with worse models and rules changing faster than I can paint a unit (AoS). And due to also playing Oathmark I don't think The Old World will get my interest.
They lost me with Kill Team with its new rules because I don't want to learn another system. And the Edition before that lacked any kind of narrative depth you'd expect from a skirmisher like that, the squad development was a joke.

If they redo Battlefleet Gothic in a convenient way that could be something to catch me, but I already have Star Trek Attack Wing, so I probably don't need another Space fight system.
   
Made in gb
Storm Trooper with Maglight





 Blackie wrote:
Necromunda for example is based on campaigns so it's perfectly fine to stick with rules from a few books, ignore the rest of the rules and/or the cards completely, like me and my group have always done.


I think this is a very important point about Necromunda. GW churns books out at an alarming rate (consumers don't need many models to play the game so I guess GW wants us to spend our money on books instead), doesn't mean you have to buy or use them all. Same for the cards. You could go mad trying to get hold of all the cards your campaign is able to use, or you could just not bother.

Not that I'm trying to sell people on Necromunda. If it doesn't appeal to you don't play it. It's just important to note that GW selling lots of different add ons for the game doesn't necessarily mean we have to buy them all to have a good time. As with many games of its nature a lot depends on the mindset of the people you play with.
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka




NE Ohio, USA

Personal interest mostly.
Aeronautica for example. I've already got several historical plane games (ranging in complexity), X-Wing 1e, and several spaceship games (again, ranging in complexity). All Aeronautica does is change the visual element.
Maybe if I didn't already have something in its complexity niche??


Sometimes I also know that I don't enjoy that type of game.
Current KT & the various Quest types for example.

Cost & player base isn't really a factor.
Cost? I already play GW games....
Other players? All I need is a few other people (even just one more - and ive got a few friends thatll try almost anything.). Assuming we're seen having fun (even with a game I don't actually like - say, KT2.0) more people will be drawn in. After that it's as simple as asking on the shops FB page or Discord "Hey, anyone want to play/try some ____ on Thursday?" Someone will bite.
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






Springfield, VA

I play loads of games, not even GW. Partly because the army I play.

As far as GW games go:
My Slaanesh Daemons can make appearances in 30k, 40k, AoS. I also play MESBG.

Perhaps most shockingly, 4th Edition 40k has been a blast to play lately as well.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/05/29 12:12:52


 
   
Made in gb
Stubborn White Lion




Cost, space, the niggling idea that current necromunda doesnt come close to the original with outlanders supplement.
   
Made in us
Committed Chaos Cult Marine





By number of games, Kill Team 2018 is my most played game. From November 2018 to March 2020 I was playing about 3 games just about every week.

When Kill Team 2021 released, I picked up the starter box and after getting the stuff inside Battleready, I started playing... for a bit. It took a lot of effort on my part to learn the rules of KT21. I haven't encountered a poorer rule book. However, once I started playing, the game as superior to KT18 as a game. But ultimately, I still faded away from playing.

In part because unlike KT18 which only needed the Core Rules, a couple of boxes of miniatures, dice and measuring device; KT21 wanted the rulebook, your teams' rules and three 1"x2" barricades at a minimum, and the game is a whole lot easier with the card decks and measuring tools. In the end, I walked away because the team compendium cost way more money than I was willing to pay, while also planned to be a stopgap for the real rules for factions. Each of which has rules dispersed in more places than I was willing to track down. I also suspect that if GW does create a consolidated book for all these teams, it won't be a single book. Instead, best case scenario, there's an IoM, Chaos and Xenos book. Each the price of the Compendium.

For me, who has kill teams of just about every faction from KT18, that's a bridge too far. Doubly so, as I suspect terminators may never be allowed in KT21. And I have terminators for every kill team allowed them in the previous rules.

***

As for what is stopping me from playing a non-GW game. For more than a year, I have been waiting for other players to muster their Bolt Action armies. Honestly, I just became a little tired of waiting. I live in a part of the world-famous for flaky people. So I haven't put an additional dime into Bolt Action (I stopped playing when 2nd ed introduced templates), but have just about everything to play.

I honestly didn't think it would take more than a year for other players to get their armies ready. Word is next month, Bolt Action will really kick off. I'll probably check it out, but I am not going to put any energy into maintaining a gaming community anymore.

Which is the main reason I stick with GW games these days. If it isn't 40k, more often than not, players have to put energy into maintenance of their gaming group. Even AoS isn't completely immune to this. I have done grown and maintained a bunch of game systems over the years. Frankly, I am getting a little tired of doing it. All the showing up week after week to maybe get in a game, the creation of demo armies, staying on top of the rules, trying to coordinate and advertise game nights and everything else that comes with it. All with the high likelihood of having collections of models that won't hit the table in play ever again.

To be sure, it wasn't all bad. In fact, when you get a game off the ground with an active community; it's very rewarding. But I am not a young man anymore and don't have the energy to do it anymore. And 40k is well in the, 'good enough' range for me.
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut





Time
   
Made in us
Insect-Infested Nurgle Chaos Lord






Saturmorn Carvilli wrote:

As for what is stopping me from playing a non-GW game. For more than a year, I have been waiting for other players to muster their Bolt Action armies. Honestly, I just became a little tired of waiting. I live in a part of the world-famous for flaky people. So I haven't put an additional dime into Bolt Action (I stopped playing when 2nd ed introduced templates), but have just about everything to play.

I honestly didn't think it would take more than a year for other players to get their armies ready. Word is next month, Bolt Action will really kick off. I'll probably check it out, but I am not going to put any energy into maintaining a gaming community anymore.


Oh... been there. To paraphrase the owner of our (then new) FLGS "Gamers are the flakiest bunch of people I've ever met!". This doesn't just go for starting new games, it's everything from participating in campaigns to just turning up for a bloody game!

Experienced it myself when we finally got said FLGS in 2014. This is the UK, so these things are few and far between and there's a bit of a novelty factor of finally being able to play non-GW games in a shop- everyone is showing an interest in Warmachine from the small group of us that already play it. Are they going to buy it? Nope. Or those that did were always claiming they were "working" on their forces. I even suggested to people that they hint to their family and friends about getting a WMH starter box for Christmas that year (as even I did with Malifaux, of which I've played precisely one game for the same reasons as above...), as they have zero financial investment to make. Did anyone bite? Nope. Some claimed they couldn't afford it, well if you didn't buy a Domino's practically every other day Callum, perhaps you could...

It's tiring and frustrating and another reason why I'm apprehensive to invest time into this again.
   
Made in de
Perfect Shot Dark Angels Predator Pilot




Stuttgart

Had the same issue at the local tabletop club. They played a different game every other week and it was impossible to get a game in that wasn't the hype of the week that day. For a student it was impossible to keep up, especially when playing with unpainted minis was rather frowned upon.
Now I'm playing with a close friend, and I host the minis, terrain and rules (but I get some snacks in return). I'm lucky we are both interested in the same genre and scope for games, but I really can't go through the effort of keeping more than the two of us focused on the same game/campaign.
I really get people just choosing the the most popular game and sticking too it.
   
Made in us
Paramount Plague Censer Bearer





The fact that I don't play with randos, so my entire playerbase is me, my girlfriend, and three of my friends, and only two of us are interested in Necromunda, and three of us are interested in Blood Bowl.

‘What Lorgar’s fanatics have not seen is that these gods are nothing compared to the power and the majesty of the Machine-God. Already, members of our growing cult are using the grace of the Omnissiah – the true Omnissiah, not Terra’s false prophet – to harness the might of the warp. Geller fields, warp missiles, void shields, all these things you are familiar with. But their underlying principles can be turned to so much more. Through novel exploitations of these technologies we will gain mastery first over the energies of the empyrean, then over the lesser entities, until finally the very gods themselves will bend the knee and recognise the supremacy of the Machine-God"
- Heretek Ardim Protos in Titandeath by Guy Haley 
   
Made in us
Ultramarine Chaplain with Hate to Spare






@OP. - Have you seen the prices GW is asking for these other games? GW can stuff it if they think I'm going to invest in those, especially when they have a habit of dropping them.

I bought some GSC models to try Necromunda, but only because they were compatible with 40k. I haven't purchased a single book for Necro, or a single model that wouldn't be directly useable in 40k.

Horus Heresy will not see any purchases from me either. I might buy a Spartan for 40k Chaos.

And They Shall Not Fit Through Doors!!!

Tyranid Army Progress -- With Classic Warriors!:
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/743240.page#9671598 
   
Made in ca
Longtime Dakkanaut





The only thing that ever stops me is the exclusion of factions I like from the game in question.

I'm already on board with KT. I was on board with BSF. I'll soon be dipping into Necromunda so I can use gangers as cultists in 40k.

Heresy is just a marinefest, so aside from maybe picking up a spartan for 40k, it's unlikely to have any value for me.

If sisters had titans, I'd probably explore Titanicus. If they had fliers, I'd consider Aeronautica. But the differences in scale make these games less appealing. The appeal of side games so far has been using each model in more than one game.

The exception is BFG; if it comes back, there's a good chance I buy in; it is so useful for integration with multi-planet/ system campaigns in 40k, that differences in scale aren't a barrier.



   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




mrFickle wrote:


Would you branch out more if these games were cheaper? Or is there something else that puts you off playing the boxes games


I'd play the specialist games ^before^ I'd play 40k or aos.

Money isn't the biggest concern. Not that I'm rich but I can save. Games being 'cheaper' isn't necessarily something that motivates me to buy in. Even if I've already bought in I don't need to buy in to every expansion either.

Interesting rules/setting&theme/scale is far more important to me.

greatest band in the universe: machine supremacy

"Punch your fist in the air and hold your Gameboy aloft like the warrior you are" 
   
Made in us
Powerful Pegasus Knight





The decidedly gamey mechanics of the current edition, an implicit focus on tournament play by GW, a lack of a narrative oriented community, poor balance, and the near doubling of prices since I've started in 2014, have all driven me further away from GW.

A lot of the communities attitude toward the game is influenced by how GW approaches it as well. When you cater to tournament play, and seemingly intentionally buff and nerf things in order to create a "meta" rather than a good game, the players are going to react to that. In a lot of the ways the game has become the meta (thats essentially 90% of what gets discussed on here), and that mentality spreads to many of the other games within the community.

Finding people that actually want to play the specialist games is a problem as well. 40k has the massive embedded player base that other games do not have. When you then ask for those players to spend over $250 dollars just to play with no guarantee of finding anyone else, you're going to have a problem.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/05/29 23:34:35


 
   
Made in au
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.

 Sim-Life wrote:
Can't have competitors have more models than a GW game.
Or more books, it would seem...

El Torro wrote:
You could go mad trying to get hold of all the cards your campaign is able to use, or you could just not bother.
Unfortunately, with the Necromunda cards, you either choose not to use them, or you buy them the moment they go on pre-order. There's no real middle ground. Very few of the Necromunda card sets have been things you can forget about and wait a few months before picking up. Some sell out in seconds, and unlike 40k's cards*, they don't reprint them. You get them right away, or you never** get them.


*Which have their own problems with near-instant obsolescence
**Or get fleeced on eBay, I 'spose.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2022/05/30 00:26:40


Industrial Insanity - My Terrain Blog
"GW really needs to understand 'Less is more' when it comes to AoS." - Wha-Mu-077

 
   
Made in ca
Secretive Dark Angels Veteran



Canada

Napoleon said: "You can ask for anything you like, except time."

I have enjoyed playing a fairly wide variety of wargames over the past 40 years, but I usually concentrate on a few because I only have so much gaming time. I take some pleasure in collecting, building and painting a force of miniatures, but I want to play them and my tabletop time is at a premium with a career and family. If I am lucky I can get two games in a week and I would like some assurance of getting a game in when I do want one. So I concentrate on 40K and AOS. Ten years ago I concentrated on Flames of War. Who knows what I will be doing in ten years.

The 50% discount bin at my FLGS is full of miniatures for different games that have tried to make a mark. I won't touch them - no time to waste.


All you have to do is fire three rounds a minute, and stand 
   
Made in us
Master Engineer with a Brace of Pistols





washington state USA

The OPs question-nothing, i do play other GW games, they are just the ones GW hasn't supported in a decade (BFG/EPIC). current GW gets zero support from me, all of their current game rules are trash and their prices are prohibitive.





GAMES-DUST1947/infinity/B5 wars/epic 40K/5th ed 40K/victory at sea/warmachine/battle tactics/monpoc/battletech/battlefleet gothic/castles in the sky,/heavy gear 
   
Made in de
Ork Admiral Kroozin Da Kosmos on Da Hulk






Ah right, totally forgot blood bowl is also made by GW

I actually do play that from time to time, the team I bought ages ago still works well enough today and you can just break it out as a board game without needing to buy three books, a bag full of supplies and a pile of new miniatures.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/05/30 07:21:14


7 Ork facts people always get wrong:
Ragnar did not win against Thrakka, but suffered two crushing defeats within a few days of each other.
A lasgun is powerful enough to sever an ork's appendage or head in a single, well aimed shot.
Orks meks have a better understanding of electrics and mechanics than most Tech Priests.
Orks do not think that purple makes them harder to see. They do think that camouflage does however, without knowing why.
Gharkull Blackfang did not even come close to killing the emperor.
Orks can be corrupted by chaos, but few of them have any interest in what chaos offers.
Orks do not have the power of believe. 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




The main barrier for me is time. I already play 40k and X-Wing, as well as occasionally playing other games like Epic or Frostgrave.

As far as the specifics of some of GW's newer games, the problem is the way they design and sell them. I liked KT18, not because it was a brilliant game (it was enjoyable enough, but had some significant issues), but because I could spend £40 and get a complete game. Yes, they later released Elites and Commanders, which I think was a mistake, but the base game had all the rules you needed to play and field Kill Teams from every faction. It made buying in easy and relatively risk-free. The new KT is a mess of bespoke components and counters, alongside stupid terminology that gets in the way of understanding the game (whoever came up with the idea of renaming a turn as a Turning Point is a moron).

On top of that, you now have to wait for the rules for your faction to be released so you can get the full experience. That then requires more expenditure to get those rules, cards, etc. It's turned what was a simple game that provided a nice diversion into a full-time occupation.

The same applies to Necromunda. The original Necromunda is brilliant. The system has the right amount of depth and the core concept of a bunch of regular humans all using the same equipment with differences coming purely through the skill trees was fantastic. Now GW have turned it into 40k lite. We have battlesuits, hoverboards and the gangs all have different stats, while we also need to buy each gang's expansion to be able to use them. GW also decided to remove the campaign rules from the new core release and parcel them out over multiple books. It's just exhausting keeping up with it all.

I get that this is just the new way GW has chosen to operate. It looks like there's now no room in their line-up for a simple one-and-done release. It probably makes more money for them in the long run, but as a customer it just reduces the number of games Im actually interested in, often for reasons other than the quality of those games.
   
 
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