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Something needs to be done to curb marine assault cannon cheese with 2 libs fearing 1/2 the opposing army lol. Kid of generic, but hey, who doesn't minmax marines now a days?

Shirely min-maxing would be reducing the marine squads to 5 men - I could probably fit another squad in that way, or even replacing them with scouts.

heh

you wouldn't like the Lysander wing I just worked out which was 922pts in HQ.

But that was a very silly army.

no.. i'm pretty sure this qualifies as min/maxed.

You have 800 points in your HQ at 1500 points.. LOL

Then another 270 on elites.

You only have two troops.

That is min/maxed

Thank you for explaining what minmax is to this marine player, maybe more will view this thread and say wow, my list is just like this guy's no wonder why everyone hates me and calls me a noob. LOL

as fr your Lysander idea, if I ever played you, to annoy you, like you certainly will annoy me by minmaxing I will say no special chars. Then I will call you a noob because you can only make a 1 trick list and dumping all but 2 (5) man scout squads into your HQ. You will soon realise that you are not good at the game itself and rely on the most powerful gun (asslt can) and broken power (fear) in the game. To win is more fun to lose, but it is even more fun to actually deserve that win. That is a message for all generic noob lists like this in the playing field now a days.

Learn to play, then learn to know what minmax is and hate it because it is a cheap 1 trick pony way to win which proves you have a lack of generalmanship.

This is not a flame, rather an observation on beating the dead (look at my marine list) horse.

Hahahahahahahaha.

Yeah sod off, i'm gonna end up sounding like all the other internet *w*ts but 'i've been playing GW for 15 years now, if you noticed my inital post mentioned this was for the GT - you know the Grand Tournament, I don't like it either but there's gonna be lots of 'cheesy' armies there - the 9 oblit Iron warriors, the starcannon heavy eldar, the usual crowd - aprt from craftworld eldar - thank god they've been banned.

If you knew me at all, you'd know that in general store/friendly play I use armies which are nothing like this at all - foot slogging orks, guard, witchunters.

My marines are my one outlet for cheese, and I think i'm justified in taking something like this to the GT.

By no means is this an 'easy' army to win with - playing against vets I'm gonna have a tough time, due to the lack of models and limited mobility - not to mention that some armies completely negate the fear aspect, making me lose one of my 'one tricks'

The Lysander list I put together for shi*s and giggles, and didn't have any scouts in it - the troops were two min tact squads in pods

In response to your cheap 'This is not a flame' I just laugh, and hope you just get on with your life, this is a game you know

Yeah sod off, i'm gonna end up sounding like all the other internet *w*ts but 'i've been playing GW for 15 years now, if you noticed my inital post mentioned this was for the GT - you know the Grand Tournament, I don't like it either but there's gonna be lots of 'cheesy' armies there - the 9 oblit Iron warriors, the starcannon heavy eldar, the usual crowd - aprt from craftworld eldar - thank god they've been banned.

I see your point, I hate the fact that vet players probably skilled and very good at the game have to resort to this due to some (IMO) unbalanced rules. Good Luck, and man I hate the fact that as you said you are a 15 year player and you have to do this to win, I honestly feel bad that people have to do this, I see your point, go kick noob @#$!!!

Right for a minute i thought this was warseer.....anyway.

Its a GT - most people do take some form of cheese. Just because hes a vet doesnt mean he shouldnt take a cheese army to compete with the other cheese armies. If other vets take harder armies, hes pretty screwed as the players probably have the same ability, but the lists arent. So why shouldnt he take a cheese list to be competitive with the other vet players?? As long as hes not being a chump and going and playing and crushing noobs all the time with it but playing vets instead, then i dont see the problem.

Besides, i could think of much harder drop pod armies that'll work against the hardcore armies better.

I'm just saying that it is sad that no matter how long you have played and how good you are, you have to bring (insert generic army list x here) in order to be competitive...

Ummm... special characters are always aloud unless A) a tournament disallows them B)the codex specifically says permission is required. Nothing is wrong with a lysander army, it is 100% fluffy, 100% themed, and 100% effective (except against monoliths, but they only have ap3).

Most people fielding a "min/maxed cheesy" army, are not "noobs". I dont know a single person I would say has an effective army that I would say is a noob, the closest would be myself having only played for 3 years.

If you and your gaming group do not like playing with hard, effective lists, then dont! Many people, like me for instance, like playing a game with two hard, effective lists involved more then they like playing games with ineffective lists.

I dont want to argue about "cheese" vs "fun" lists, I'm just saying that people should let people play with the list they want to, be they "cheese" or "Fun".


On topic about the list, it's a good list. The main problem is that you only have 5 squads, total. An average drop would yield you only 2 or 3 squads on the drop. Most drop lists bring in 3-4. Assuming you did get 3, those could be wiped out due to the fact that you will only have 15-18 models that need to be within 24" to work.

Out of curiosity, when was the last time marines won the UK GT? I think it's been a couple of years.

Out of curiosity, when was the last time marines won the UK GT? I think it's been a couple of years.

That's b/c people go into these events with anti meq lists....

Marines won Heat 1 last year. Maybe this year will be the year of the marines with ulthwe banned so everyone will metagame to fight tau and iron warriors, which more often than not require the same sort of killling power to deal with.

Just like to clarify 'min-maxing' as it seems to have been taken completely out of context.

 

Min-maxing is to take the minimum number of models in a squad with the maximum amount of special/heavy weapon options. Amazingly enough, just like the name implies.

In many cases this is almost mandatory and expected of units, e.g.

Battle Sisters squad- minimum troops 10, maximum special/heavy 2.

Termies- minimum troops 5 (but 6 if your smart), maximum special/heavy 2.

 

In other cases it can be 'advantageous', e.g.

Tactical Squad- minimum troops 5, maximum special/heavy 2.

 

 

I look at this army list- it is powerful. But I see nothing that can move faster than a walk after the initial landing, very little long-range anti-tank, no Heavy Support, very few bodies, free VP's for immobilised Drop Pods, Boo being near useless against most GT armies.

All these things make it far more challenging than the typical 9 Tornado, 6xman las/plas squad stuff.