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So this is not a bashing of 30k rather a matter of the sculpts themselves.

Back in the day, where you got a stupid number of plastic marines for next to nothing, the quality of the sculpts were dictated by the technologies of the time. As such, the finer models were made of metal. Even then however, there was still limitations and this was understandable.

The art in the codexes were therefore made to match this. They looked like the minis. The ornate bandings we saw in later iterations were absent because they couldn't produce such models yet and it would look really bad if the images didn't match the reality of the models.

These days however, completely different story. The sculpts can be magnificent and ornate. However rather than potentially address this legacy issue, they have reproduced the old marines in a more true scale. Sure it's great for nostalgia but as the cost that they look, in my opinion, boring as hell.

Put one next to a Primaris model and there's no detail. There's not as much option to play around with colours etc. I do hope they look to address this with some kind of improvements, or just upscale the mk3's and 4's.....

MkVI has always been really smooth though. It was designed to be used for stealth missions and having giant bands of gold or silver doesn't really help with the whole not being seen bit.

I take it you never really liked the MKVI armour?

As someone who has loved the MKVI armour ever since the beginning of Rogue Trader, I think the redesigned MKVI are to die for.

It is up to the modeller to make the models in their image. Nothing is stopping you from adding in more detail, imagination is the limit really. I see people doing creative things with the new MKVI kits every day in places like Reddit (/r 30k).

The minis are boring because the design of Mk VI armor is boring. Nothing to do with quality or anything like that, just the simple truth that the aesthetics of the design from the getgo never left much room for detail. If you want a little more visual excitement from the minis then the legion upgrade packs can do quite a bit.

 tauist wrote:
I take it you never really liked the MKVI armour?

As someone who has loved the MKVI armour ever since the beginning of Rogue Trader, I think the redesigned MKVI are to die for.

It is up to the modeller to make the models in their image. Nothing is stopping you from adding in more detail, imagination is the limit really. I see people doing creative things with the new MKVI kits every day in places like Reddit (/r 30k).

Far from it, I used to really like them - at the time. These days, compared to Primaris for example, the detail is just lacking. Yes they were always really smooth, but that was down to manufacturing restrictions as opposed to design - they made the lore fit the manufacturing of the models. Now that's not the case, and GW have clearly changed lore before, I'm just disappointed they didn't take the time to add a bit more embellishment - especially when you consider some are now aligned to Chaos.

Sumilidon wrote:

 tauist wrote:
I take it you never really liked the MKVI armour?

As someone who has loved the MKVI armour ever since the beginning of Rogue Trader, I think the redesigned MKVI are to die for.

It is up to the modeller to make the models in their image. Nothing is stopping you from adding in more detail, imagination is the limit really. I see people doing creative things with the new MKVI kits every day in places like Reddit (/r 30k).

Far from it, I used to really like them - at the time. These days, compared to Primaris for example, the detail is just lacking. Yes they were always really smooth, but that was down to manufacturing restrictions as opposed to design - they made the lore fit the manufacturing of the models. Now that's not the case, and GW have clearly changed lore before, I'm just disappointed they didn't take the time to add a bit more embellishment - especially when you consider some are now aligned to Chaos.

I love 'em clean. There was no need for the retro aesthetic to be mutilated by a bunch of unnecessary gothic doodads, armour panels or other extraneous technokibble.

We have a heap of hideously overdesigned primaris marines for those who prefer modern and tacticool to retro. And this is still the heresy, chaos aligned forces need another few thousand years to replace all their Imperium-sourced equipment with something more spikey and ornate.

The plainness is also both deliberate from a general aesthetics perspective and to support customization. See: the new contemptor. They clearly went out of their way to make it as barebones as possible, a completely bog standard right off the factory floor battle robot as your canvas that can fit smoothly into any of the legions.

While I do think that the Primaris sculpts are better for painting, the only thing aesthetically I dislike about the MKVI marines are that they don't have the knee pads. (Some did lore wise from what I can tell). My chapters scheme has the knee pads a different colour and it really brings the model together, a bit sad that's not there as it does make it look a little less.

That being said, I am glad they are in the old style so they still fit in with my other firstborn marines. Aside from the slight scale difference, it doesn't seem odd to have these guys all fighting beside each other.

I love the Primaris(I own 5k of them) sculpts but I much prefer the Heresy marks. The new MKVI have plenty of detail, just not the overly intricate stuff on MKX. It feels (for myself at least)like actual anticipation for the massive painting task that lies ahead rather than dread.

MKIII & VI are my jam & had them in my RT army. I didn't have any MKIV BITD but love the ones from Calth.

You mean I don't have 1000 little bits on each model to paint that nobody will ever see from tabletop distance? Oh no, what will I do?

I hated how busy space marines have become, and how every random line trooper is decorated like a North Korean general. I'm 100% fine with the new MkVI and actually prefer them to most new primaris stuff in terms of detail and how busy they are.

Toofast wrote:
You mean I don't have 1000 little bits on each model to paint that nobody will ever see from tabletop distance? Oh no, what will I do?

I hated how busy space marines have become, and how every random line trooper is decorated like a North Korean general. I'm 100% fine with the new MkVI and actually prefer them to most new primaris stuff in terms of detail and how busy they are.

Yep, pretty much this. I want my special characters to stand out rather than be subsumed in a mass of overdetailed models.

MkVI may not be the best for every legion (I think some like IW and WE look weird) but for others like Alpha Legion and Raven Guard it's a downright necessity. I'm hoping this revitalization of Horus Heresy will bring us some Mk II or resculpted Mk III for those legions that want more detailed armor.

As others have expressed, feth off with every model needing upteen little do-dads and nick-nacks.

Line infantry are supposed to be line infantry. They shouldn't all have heavily individualized armor; even among the space marines they're directed to (fluff wise) eschew decorating up different roles / commanders on account of it making it easier for their enemies to single out and subdue priority targets. So not only does it make it a pain in the bum to paint that many models with that many little difference, but it also runs contrary to the fluff itself.

Having some nice, clean, standardized armor is a freaking god-send. And if you want your models to have tons of details.. You're welcome to slap on all the seals, wreaths, decorative pauldrons, and weapon holsters you like. Go nuts. Where as it's infinitely harder to carve that stuff off of the individual pieces and still have them like cohesive.

Sumilidon wrote:
So this is not a bashing of 30k rather a matter of the sculpts themselves.

Back in the day, where you got a stupid number of plastic marines for next to nothing, the quality of the sculpts were dictated by the technologies of the time. As such, the finer models were made of metal. Even then however, there was still limitations and this was understandable.

The art in the codexes were therefore made to match this. They looked like the minis. The ornate bandings we saw in later iterations were absent because they couldn't produce such models yet and it would look really bad if the images didn't match the reality of the models.

These days however, completely different story. The sculpts can be magnificent and ornate. However rather than potentially address this legacy issue, they have reproduced the old marines in a more true scale. Sure it's great for nostalgia but as the cost that they look, in my opinion, boring as hell.

Put one next to a Primaris model and there's no detail. There's not as much option to play around with colours etc. I do hope they look to address this with some kind of improvements, or just upscale the mk3's and 4's.....

There is detail. What there isn't is excess detail, which is something GW does a lot, and that I hate. I much prefer clean lines than clutter, personally.

I am disappointed with the Mk VI marines, but mostly due to how limited the sprues are.

One cool kitbash example from Reddit that's relevant to this thread:



Here's another (the one on the right...)

 tauist wrote:
One cool kitbash example from Reddit that's relevant to this thread:



Here's another (the one on the right...)

Now this I like. Not over the top but the shoulder pads make a world of difference to me, as does the chest embellishment. I think I may move the "bumpy" shoulder pad to the right arm and add some 3d printed ultramarine ones to the left. That raised rim is just what is needed to break up the whole "You like to paint blue and little else?" aesthetic to them.

Mixing in Mk4 and 3 shoulder pads, chests and helmets for a more 'end of war scrappy look' (Mk5) seems to work well.

They're not ugly but I think current 40k tactical squads and their chapter locked equivalent kits (like grey hunters) look way better. It's the contemptor dread and the termies that are extremely disappointing.

But I've never been a fan of the HH aesthetics in general.