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Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User




I've been out of the game for a while, but I'm dusting things off with the new CSM codex. Black Legion is back!

HQ:
300 (-1 CP) - Abaddon the Despoiler w/warlord traits (he gets all three for 1CP, right?)
190 (-2CP) - Lord Discordant w/Baleflamer, Magma cutter, Mark of Tzeentch, Gorget of Eternal Hate (relic), Flames of Spite (wlt)
145 (-1CP) - Daemon Prince w/Mark of Tzeentch (+Death Hex), Cloak of Conquest (relic)

Troops:
90 - 5x Legionaries
90 - 5x Legionaries
90 - 5x Legionaries

Elites:
365 (-1CP) - 10x Chaos Terminators w/Mark of Tzeentch, 2x Reaper AC, 2x Chainfist, Black Rune of Damnation (relic)
130 - Helbrute w/Helbrute fist, Twin lascannon, Combi-bolter
120 - Helbrute w/Helbrute fist, Twin heavy bolter, Combi-bolter

Heavy Support:
270 - 3x Obliterators
180 - Defiler

Total: 1970 (-5CP)

My first question is: Is there any good use for the last 30 points? I could add Marks of Tzeentch on the Helbrutes, add six Power fists to the terminators, or maybe add a Balefire Tome on one squad of Legionaries? None of that seems super important, though, and I'm a bit stuck figuring out where to spend those last points.

Second, I'm spending a lot of CP on requisition. All the relics seem very strong, but there would only be 1CP left over with Nephilim. The Black Legion trait plus Abaddon's blessing already give a lot of modifiers, so I feel like I could get away with not spending much on stratagems early in the game, but I haven't played in a while so I'm not sure if that's a bad idea.

Third, all three HQ want Look Out, Sir, but they're faster than the units that could give them cover. I'm not sure how to deal with that. Do I hang back the first round so none of the HQ are closest, and maybe it takes longer to get the HQ into melee? The terminators could advance and shoot with Relentless Devastation (1CP) but that's still slower than the HQ advancing.

The overall model count is quite low (I'm a very slow painter ) but with the Cloak of Conquest up to nine units can have Objective Secured, and the Legionaries can turn off enemy ObSec with Heralds of Doom (2CP). I'm hoping that's enough to compete effectively for objectives, but again I haven't played recently and don't really have a feel for that.

A few more notes on specific units:
  • The 2CP spent on the Lord Discordant are a mix of offense and defense. Switching Gorget of Eternal Hate to the Sightless Helm would be great for all offense, but I'm not sure how tough he'll need to be.
  • The Daemon Prince is more of a support here compared the other HQ, with the ObSec aura, Death Hex debuff, and as a good candidate for psyker secondary objectives. I'm not sure if this is a good idea.
  • The terminators seem amazing with Abaddon's blessing, and there are also some very strong stratagems for them. Normally I'd take Mark of Nurgle on them, but with Black Rune of Damnation it's redundant and Tzeentch seemed like the next best mark, though I'm not sure about that (maybe Slaanesh?).
  • The Defiler seems... fine. I like my converted model for it, but I'm not sure how efficient it is.


  • I'd appreciate any feedback or suggestions!

    This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2022/07/05 03:14:47


     
       
    Made in us
    Tzeentch Aspiring Sorcerer Riding a Disc






    Battle Barge Impossible Fortress

    If you press the MoTz onto the helbrutes, it basically forces you to put Skeins of Fate onto one of them (you wont be casting it very much on the Terminators thanks to Armor of Contempt). Since the prince should be casting Death Hex, he will likely be prioritizing that cast each turn instead, as a 4++ wont really matter on a single helbrute if you have such other big threats running around.

    I think the points are better spent on weapons upgrades for the csm, tbh. MSU legionaries is not a bad move with some wpns sprinkled in for taste. I am a big fan of legionaries in 9th ed. You might want to think about a long ranged weapon if you intend to plop them on an objective. If you intend to put them on objectives outside of line of sight, heavy chainaxes might help get them out of combat if they get tied up by harassment units they might take a few turns to kill, or something annoying like a couple random Infiltrators or something that would normally be resilient to the legionaries punch attacks.


    Apologies if I missed it in the post but are you playing GT mission pack or Tempest of War

    This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2022/07/06 14:46:38


     
       
    Made in us
    Fresh-Faced New User




    This is for the Nephilim GT pack.

    Weapons on the legionaries are an interesting idea, and the heavy chainaxe is a great weapon (I wish I could take it on the terminators!). I was thinking I'd be trying to keep the legionaries out of combat and put the upgrades on the units I'm trying to get into combat, but spreading out the threats a bit might not hurt...

    The idea I've been playing around with is putting wings on the DP. That doesn't work very well with Cloak of Conquest, though, which I think wants to stay in the middle of the army instead of flying out front. However, I could add another HQ to wear the Cloak by moving Abaddon to his own detachment. It could look something like this:

    Supreme Command:
    300 (-1 CP) - Abaddon the Despoiler w/warlord traits

    Battalion HQ:
    190 (-2CP) - Lord Discordant w/Baleflamer, Magma cutter, Mark of Tzeentch, Gorget of Eternal Hate (relic), Flames of Spite (wlt)
    180 (-1CP) - Daemon Prince w/Wings, Mark of Slaanesh, Death Hex, Thaa'ris and Rhi'ol the Rapacious (relic)
    105 (-1CP) - Master of Possession w/Pact of Flesh, Infernal Power, Cloak of Conquest (relic)

    Battalion Troops:
    90 - 5x Legionaries
    90 - 5x Legionaries
    90 - 5x Legionaries

    Battalion Elites:
    345 (-1CP) - 10x Chaos Terminators w/2x Reaper AC, 1x Chainfist, Black Rune of Damnation (relic)
    130 - Helbrute w/Helbrute fist, Twin lascannon, Combi-bolter
    120 - Helbrute w/Helbrute fist, Twin heavy bolter, Combi-bolter

    Battalion Heavy Support:
    180 - Defiler
    90 - 1x Obliterator
    90 - 1x Obliterator

    Total: 2000 (-6CP)

    In addition to the wings on the DP, this drops an Obliterator and the mark on the terminators for a Master of Possession. It also drops to 0 starting CP... but all those relics are so hard to turn down.

    The Master of Possession can use Infernal Power to make the Lord Discordant's 14 melee attacks each generate an extra MW on hit or wound rolls of 6, but he's really the only good target for it. Splitting the Obliterators into two units means giving up on the dream of resurrecting one with Pact of Flesh, but... it's mostly just a dream anyway, right?

    I'm a little worried about using the DP as a missile. Seems both too fragile to survive it and not enough damage to justify it. Delightful Agonies (when Death Hex isn't needed) plus 2D3 extra attacks from the Slaanesh daemon weapons seem like a decent shot at improving both. Maybe Intoxicating Elixir would be better?

    Also, it's a minor thing, but I'm torn on Magma cutter vs. Techno-virus injector with the new rules. The Magma cutter seems more generally useful (against vehicles or anything else), but there are times when Techno-virus injector could be extremely strong. I just don't have a good feel for how often those times will come up.
       
     
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