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At long Last! red Box Games has gone PLASTIC!! We are very very proud to launch the pre order for our first plastic boxed set containing 10 single piece Adventurer figures cast in Hard Grade SIoCast plastic. These figures are available for pre order and due to begin shipping on the 31st of August. The mold is made and the caster is ready to go!. This is all made in the USA so no need to fret over international shipping or supply chain issues! I am very very excited for this and what it could mean for the future of Red Box Games. We have always had big plans and this is the first step on that road. I very much hope you will join us for the adventure!

Now available for $50.00 from the Red Box Games Store! Just follow the link in the email below.

Cheers!

Tre'

http://www.red-box-games.com

The main page is entry for buying these. I placed an order myself, I think these are the set he did in metal earlier in the year. He's also been showing off some trolls and modular models on Facebook. I would embed those but I'm on mobile as I'm on vacation and pulling Facebook stuff off and uploading it is a pain.

Well this unexpected and good news! Thanks for sharing Monkey Sloth!

Njorn Adventurer Boxed Set
$50.00
This boxed set contains 10 Njorn adventurers cast in Hard SioCast plastic and provided with 1 25 mm round plastic base each. All figures are single piece and will be shipped in a box suitable to protect them from damages in shipment.

Not intended for children younger than 14 yrs of age.

all figures designed and sculpted by tre Manor

All rights reserved Red Box Games LLC

copyright 2022

Mid Gray Plastic

EXCELLENT detail and surface finish

light weight

MADE IN THE USA

Small Independent Business from start to finish.

https://red-box-games.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1_19&products_id=604&zenid=sofgbvd7iege5jek2n4migjol5

Siocast is not plastic. It is a Polyamide, which is a form of nylon or a nylon derived product.

It is also susceptible to bubbles and heat, as seen with previous releases in this material, such as warlord games Napoleonic Spanish.



Siocast, the company, does not publish an SDS though, which is unfortunate.

What is an SDS?

Anyway, I’ve been happy with previous minis described as SioCast, so Inexpect to be happy with these. Finally some Red Box minis I can buy.

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
What is an SDS?

Anyway, I’ve been happy with previous minis described as SioCast, so Inexpect to be happy with these. Finally some Red Box minis I can buy.

SDS stands for Safety Data Sheet.

SDS includes information such as the properties of each chemical; the physical, health, and environmental health hazards; protective measures; and safety precautions for handling, storing, and transporting the chemical.

Relevant, of course, when working with any new material that you may have cause to file down which would create particulate matter.

Siocast is marketed as a thermoplastic. According to Wikipedia nylon is also a thromplastic which is a plastic so the title is correct

So I shouldn’t be filing and sanding it over a pile of powdered Adderall?

 Monkeysloth wrote:
Siocast is marketed as a thermoplastic. According to Wikipedia nylon is also a thromplastic which is a plastic so the title is correct

Sure it is. As I'm working that industry I am not a fan of the PAs we use (Akromid for example). It soaks the water from the air and needs nearly a day to dry. And if it's too dry there're other flaws. But, well, good luck. Didn't know it's used for miniatures.

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
So I shouldn’t be filing and sanding it over a pile of powdered Adderall?

No, it's harmless. Though, with all plastics.... try not to inhale the particles.

 Monkeysloth wrote:
Siocast is marketed as a thermoplastic. According to Wikipedia nylon is also a thromplastic which is a plastic so the title is correct

Technically correct. The material is still suspect and, at best, marketing it as plastic to Wargamers conjures the wrong idea and is disingenuous.

When your run of the mill hobbyist hears plastic, they think high impact polystyrene, even if they just call it plastic.

This is not "plastic" to a Wargamer. Siocast can be considered, at best, on the level of a resin model or a plastic-resin hybrid like Mantic's earlier offerings (for example, revenant knights) in regards to handling and safety procedures (as there is no SDS available for the material) and frankly should be marketed as such.

 McDougall Designs wrote:
When your run of the mill hobbyist hears plastic, they think high impact polystyrene, even if they just call it plastic.

After a decade or so of Kickstarters marketing PVC miniatures as plastic (which they are), I'm not sure that's actually still true. Certainly the more internet savvy at least will know enough these days to ask 'what sort of plastic?' rather than just assuming HIPS.

I think we're reaching the point where there is a wide enough range of other plastics now in use that companies selling HIPS models would be better served actually marketing as such rather than just saying 'plastic' and assuming that everyone will consider HIPS the default.

To me, the biggest problem with calling the material plastic is whether or not that means plastic cement will still work on it.

 Tannhauser42 wrote:
To me, the biggest problem with calling the material plastic is whether or not that means plastic cement will still work on it.

It IS plastic. Just a different kind. And no, PS (Polystyrene) glue doesn't work. Like it doesn't with almost all other plastics.

Does Siocast shrink? Tre's sculpts tend to be small, and I remember how useless the undead were for the Trollcast stuff he did his first KS in because that wasnt accounted for. I do hope it goes well for him!

 Dryaktylus wrote:

 Tannhauser42 wrote:
To me, the biggest problem with calling the material plastic is whether or not that means plastic cement will still work on it.

It IS plastic. Just a different kind. And no, PS (Polystyrene) glue doesn't work. Like it doesn't with almost all other plastics.

It is a nylon based derivative plastic.

As I have stated above:

The term plastic as it is regarded in wargaming generally refers to HIPS (high impact polystyrene.)


As Tannhauser says above, and is what I've found: throughout two decades of hobbying, Wargamers use "plastic" as a byword that refers to HIPS because it will react to plastic solvent adhesives like testors orange tube.

These models are siocast, and is therefore should not be referred to as "plastic" in the wargaming market.

Restating my above post:

This is not "plastic" to a Wargamer. Siocast can be considered, at best, on the level of a resin model or a plastic-resin hybrid like Mantic's earlier offerings (for example, revenant knights) in regards to handling and safety procedures (as there is no SDS available for the material) and frankly should be marketed as such.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 insaniak wrote:

 McDougall Designs wrote:
When your run of the mill hobbyist hears plastic, they think high impact polystyrene, even if they just call it plastic.

After a decade or so of Kickstarters marketing PVC miniatures as plastic (which they are), I'm not sure that's actually still true. Certainly the more internet savvy at least will know enough these days to ask 'what sort of plastic?' rather than just assuming HIPS.

I think we're reaching the point where there is a wide enough range of other plastics now in use that companies selling HIPS models would be better served actually marketing as such rather than just saying 'plastic' and assuming that everyone will consider HIPS the default.

I agree with you in that things should be marketed exactly as what they physically are.

However, I disagree with your first paragraph. Never underestimate herd mentality and "that's what it is, it's always been that way"

 McDougall Designs wrote:
... or a plastic-resin hybrid like Mantic's earlier offerings (for example, revenant knights)

I don't think the material PP referred to as 'plastic resin' was a hybrid of anything (although people kept insisting on referring to it as such), just a spincast resin.

 insaniak wrote:

 McDougall Designs wrote:
... or a plastic-resin hybrid like Mantic's earlier offerings (for example, revenant knights)

I don't think the material PP referred to as 'plastic resin' was a hybrid of anything (although people kept insisting on referring to it as such), just a spincast resin.

That's exactly what it was. All I was doing by saying that was referencing other types of materials that were billed as "plastic" but would not fit the traditional Wargamers definition of plastic as it is not HIPS and does not accept styrene adhesive cement

I prefer when they use specific, even proprietary terms, like SioCast, Bones, Bones Black, Bones USA, Bones Takes Manhattan, Trollcast, etc.

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
I prefer when they use specific, even proprietary terms, like SioCast, Bones, Bones Black, Bones USA, Bones Takes Manhattan, Trollcast, etc.

But that gives you absolutely zero information.

 McDougall Designs wrote:

The term plastic as it is regarded in wargaming generally refers to HIPS (high impact polystyrene.)
As Tannhauser says above, and is what I've found: throughout two decades of hobbying, Wargamers use "plastic" as a byword that refers to HIPS because it will react to plastic solvent adhesives like testors orange tube.

the wargaming term is usually hard-plastic, as the other very common plastic material for wargaming is PE or PVC which is referred to as soft-plastic

and be aware that Siocast also offers 2 materials, a soft and a harder for their process

 McDougall Designs wrote:
... or a plastic-resin hybrid like Mantic's earlier offerings (for example, revenant knights)

Mantic never did a plastic-resin hybrid, they just had PVC with different hardness
but because it was not HIPS and not Resin (which is usually PU) people came up with the plastic-resin hybrid stuff

 McDougall Designs wrote:

 Monkeysloth wrote:
Siocast is marketed as a thermoplastic. According to Wikipedia nylon is also a thromplastic which is a plastic so the title is correct

Technically correct. The material is still suspect and, at best, marketing it as plastic to Wargamers conjures the wrong idea and is disingenuous.

The very first sentence of the product description in the webstore very explicitly states "This boxed set contains 10 Njorn adventurers cast in Hard SioCast plastic". No disinformation, nothing disingenuous about that. The product name doesn't contain any reference to any material, so this is the first mention of it a potential customer would encounter. What more could you ask for? A pop-up screen that requires five clicks to confirm you definitely really genuinely want to buy the product, have read the product description, and have understood the material of the product you are purchasing? It's not exactly hidden in small text in the announcement either.


Aaanyway, glad to see Tre has found a way forwards, while very much retaining his typical style in digital sculpting. Probably won't quite take the plunge on these immediately, but for those that do I'm certainly keen on hearing how the detail and scale of these figures compares to his previous releases.

 Coenus Scaldingus wrote:

 McDougall Designs wrote:

 Monkeysloth wrote:
Siocast is marketed as a thermoplastic. According to Wikipedia nylon is also a thromplastic which is a plastic so the title is correct

Technically correct. The material is still suspect and, at best, marketing it as plastic to Wargamers conjures the wrong idea and is disingenuous.

The very first sentence of the product description in the webstore very explicitly states "This boxed set contains 10 Njorn adventurers cast in Hard SioCast plastic". No disinformation, nothing disingenuous about that. The product name doesn't contain any reference to any material, so this is the first mention of it a potential customer would encounter. What more could you ask for? A pop-up screen that requires five clicks to confirm you definitely really genuinely want to buy the product, have read the product description, and have understood the material of the product you are purchasing? It's not exactly hidden in small text in the announcement either.

By that metric it also wouldn't be disingenuous to call it a salad.

Yea, these look cool, but his smaller scale doesn't match well with my collection.

If anyone gets a set, would you mind posting pics here, or linked here, with scale shots? I'd love to buy a set, but not if they're "tall halflings"

I agree that I wish companies were more transparent, but it's probably unrealistic to expect companies to clearly state "This is plastic, but not, like, you know, good plastic."

At this poitn, if you don't show me a sprue pic, I assume it's technically plastic, but not HIPS.

 lord_blackfang wrote:

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
I prefer when they use specific, even proprietary terms, like SioCast, Bones, Bones Black, Bones USA, Bones Takes Manhattan, Trollcast, etc.

But that gives you absolutely zero information.

It gives me way more information than calling these all the same thing: plastic.

I can read reviews on SioCast or Bones or whatever. I can ask other posters for their experience with the specific material put out by the company I am interested in.

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:

 lord_blackfang wrote:

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
I prefer when they use specific, even proprietary terms, like SioCast, Bones, Bones Black, Bones USA, Bones Takes Manhattan, Trollcast, etc.

But that gives you absolutely zero information.

It gives me way more information than calling these all the same thing: plastic.

I can read reviews on SioCast or Bones or whatever. I can ask other posters for their experience with the specific material put out by the company I am interested in.

Doesn't really change the amount of googling you need to do. Even if you're familiar with proprietary material A from before, company B can't say they're using campany A's material if it's proprietary. And randos on the internet telling us B's material is the same as A's material is always going to be conjencture (example: Red Box Games = Bones USA since as far as I know they're both using SioCast)

(Edit: this isn't a defense of using vague terms like "plastic" for everything; I believe only established technical terms like HIPS are useful in any way and even then you need prior knowledge; frankly, everything that isn't either HIPS or 3d printable can go die for all I care, I'm done messing with restic&company)

In my real life I deal with non-intuitive specific terms all the time, the way you do it is define it and use it consistently from there.

These models are made from siocast, a nylon-based plastic that is easy to mold and holds detail well, and blah blah blah. They are best assembled using super glue.

A page of arguing about whether miniatures made of a type of plastic should be called plastic miniatures ..


Bravo Dakka! You’re the best!

 MonkeyBallistic wrote:
A page of arguing about whether miniatures made of a type of plastic should be called plastic miniatures ..


Bravo Dakka! You’re the best!

Complete with citations and discussion of safety regs!

That's why Dakka is the best, we don't just debate weird pedantic BS, we have highly educated and informed debates about pedantic BS!

RBG figs at $5 apiece is the real takeaway here. Consistently some of the best fantasy sculpts on the market for the last decade.

Effing Cool is doing the casting from what Tre said in Facebook. Also wouldn't be surprised if Patrick Keith's Counterblast had a siocast release as he was the one that suggested Tre try the material and was talking recently about the cost of material and moving away from metals.