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Made in be
Monstrous Master Moulder






After 2 years, Dystopian Wars has a new rules update (not a new edition, as this still heavily builds on the third edition basis).

The rules can be found here: https://www.dystopianwars.com/rules

And if you are curious about the major changes (ie, reworks), you can find them here:




Along with a video of more subtle changes (but that will still be very noticeable during your games):


This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2023/01/24 13:21:26


The boy, I say, the boy is as sharp as a sack of wet mice... 
   
Made in si
Foxy Wildborne







Great game, great community, great models, living ruleset, unreal level of developer-customer interaction. My current main game, wish I could play every day.

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Longtime Dakkanaut






Side note, incase it was not painfully obvious, both the core rule book AND the orbats got updated on the same day, so make shure to download them.

As sutch the product: Rules & Gubbins is basicy invalid even tough it is still beeing sold. The rules book is outdated and the victory & valour deck included is invalid as the V&V cards got an update in july.(This goes for the Hunt for the Prometheus Two Player Starter Set allso.) The only products left that has value in the R&G box is the plastic templates, dices and condition tokens, but if money is an issue then the templates can be downloaded and printed, the game dices can be replaced with standard dices and the condition tokens can be replaced with anything that can be written on and placed next to the ships.


Unit info in the booklet that is included in all battlefleet boxes is allso naturaly invalid.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/09/07 09:42:24


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Collects: Wild West Exodus, SW Armada/Legion. Adeptus Titanicus, Dust1947. 
   
Made in si
Foxy Wildborne







To say the V&V deck is invalid because two cards got an errata of 1 sentence is a bit disingenuous. There's also a 5 and a half page rulebook errata pdf that's pretty easy to assimilate, as well as a fully updated rulebook pdf, for free.

There's definitely a reprint coming very soon but neither is a bad purchase if you're itching to play right now. You're gonna want more than one set of dice anyway.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/09/07 10:40:45


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Yeah, the V&V deck got a super small errata of two rewordings, so saying that this one is worthless, would mean the entire book publication of GW is worthless at this point. But yeah, buyer beware for now.

There is a heavy indication that the rulebook will actually be available as a physical product really soon, so I expect an updated version of the Gubbinz set to go along with it. It's 2 years old by now, so an update is probably in order.

On the flipside, if you don't care about any of the rules, you might want to keep your eyes peeled for any future deals on both Gubins set for dice/templates/decks or Hunt for the Prometheus. There's also new artwork for something called "Sturginium skies" with new model previews showing up on their social media, so they are definitely planning something big for the game with physical products too.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/09/07 15:32:58


The boy, I say, the boy is as sharp as a sack of wet mice... 
   
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Very good point that Gubbinz and Hunt might get discounted real soon and Hunt is already worth buying even if you throw 1 side in the bin. Starting Commonwealth and/or Enlightened might be stupid cheap for a while.

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Other than the sheer amazement of all the rules dropping at the same time (no waiting years for codexes), the Orbats also have rules for all kinds of upcoming models, particularly the aerial units planned for each faction.
   
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Decrepit Dakkanaut




UK

To be fair GW only shies away from doing that now because the 3rd party market (now augmented by 3d printing as well) would make stuff before GW could get it out the door. Heck there are already squats out there now!


Dwars and most other makers can show advanced stuff that might even be a year or more away because, basically no one bothers to make extensive 3rd party models for them.

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Monstrous Master Moulder






Yeah, GW can't release something now without 3D artists copying it... But then again, their high prices are also something that makes the 3D print route more appealing.

Heck, "standard game 2000p GW armies" now hover between €400 and €600 investments. That alone makes it worth considering getting 3D prints.


A "standard game DW fleet" is something that sets you can around €100 to 180 including dice and tokens. I would not consider the hassle of getting a budget 3D printer to save a bit on that. There are some 3D prints out there geared towards Dystopian Wars though, but they are mostly for terrain. I embellished my terrain with those at least:


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The Great State of New Jersey

The reason theres so few DWars/non-40k 3d printable ripoffs out there is because for those people who make money piggybacking on GWs IP there just isn't any demand or money to be made by by doing so, and for those who make free stls of GW designs many of them understand that Warcradle and others are much smaller businesses and the future of those games and companies would be jeopardized by knock-offs... so they just don't make them out of principle.

Interesting comments about the possibility of a new rulebook/gubbins set, was thinking of finally taking the plunge but I guess I'll hold off.

CoALabaer wrote:
Wargamers hate two things: the state of the game and change.
 
   
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Decrepit Dakkanaut




UK

3D printing has its own troubles. The Patreon model (now also a tribes one that is similar and runs through My Mini Factory) basically helped encouraged an insane race to the bottom in value of an STL. There are firms putting out as many models as GW might in a 1/4 period in 1 month - every single month - in STL form for about £10 per month.


So there's big pressure and competition for 3D printing to go for what's "hot" to sell. Ship combat games are just not "hot". So those doing it are often doing it as side projects so they grow slowly and steadily but aren't a big market interest.

D Wars was always pretty much on its own in the market even back in its most popular periods. Heck even before that we'd only really had Man O War for a short span of time.


Right now I'm aware of only one other firm doing a ship combat game in a fiction setting; meanwhile STL wise I know 1 person doing fiction ships

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That is true. Dystopian Wars is pretty much on its own in the wargaming niche. There's not a great wealth of fantasy/steampunk naval games (perhaps the recently Kickstarted Leviathans game).

But I suppose that's why I like it so much as I do. It's not trying to be a Warhammer/40k/killteam clone and is unapologetically its own thing. And to me, that's part of the appeal. It doesn't feel like a "store brand Warhammer" thing. That's just not something I'm interested in, because I already have plenty of original Warhammer.

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Dunno if I agree with that, theres been plenty, just none of them last very long.

Man O War (AFAIK the OG in the genre)
Pirates of the Spanish Main (which started out as being questionably historical but quickly added asian revolutionaries, ghosts, sea monsters, steampunk mercs, and vikings
Uncharted Seas (which was replaced by Dystopian Wars because Spartan never learned how to multitask)
Dreadfleet (which disappointed everyone by inexplicably and confusingly *NOT* being Man O War)
original Dystopian Wars (which died but was resuscitated by Warcradle)
original Leviathans (which was announced before Dystopian Wars but released after, and then disappeared because Catalyst couldn't get their gak together)
Mantics Armada (kinda Man O War 2.0 thematically but not really in terms of rules)
nu-Dystopian Wars (which is seemingly doing okay but struggling to grow)
nu-Leviathans (we'll see)

plus a number of smaller no-name generic rulesets/Man O War re-writes/failed kickstarters



CoALabaer wrote:
Wargamers hate two things: the state of the game and change.
 
   
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Decrepit Dakkanaut




UK

See if we take off things that were made by Spartan Games that really just leaves Mantic's Armada and Leviathans. Mantic's Armada was the one other I mentioned (that I couldn't recall the name of); meanwhile Leviathans never really went anywhere before and I get a feeling its just way more niche than Dystopian Wars or Man O War ever were.

Meanwhile Dreadfleet I don't really count because that really was more of a one and done boxed game rather than a fleet battle game. Which was a huge part of the problem. Super awesome ships, but only 1 per race. No fleets, no expansions, no additional content; just one and done. It was very much more a boardgame with models instead of a wargame.




In the end Dystopian Wars is pretty much on its own. Lets also not forget it never really failed as a game, it was more the company that failed as a firm through multiple avenues. Far as I was aware the original game always sold wel - save in periods when Spartan was focusing on another game and left it to languish.



We can hope that as the new Dystopian Wars will pick up steam as game groups get more active and the social side of wargaming basically rebuilds itself. There's no denying that a lack of events, conventions and clubs most certainly hurts the growth of new games

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Central Valley, California

aside from a steampunk vs. fantasy theme, is DW considerably different from Mantic's Armada in game play and style? I had the opportunity for a demo this weekend but the guy had to go to a wedding. We were both equally disappointed and horrified for him.

~ Shrap

Rolling 1's for five decades.
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The Great State of New Jersey

 Overread wrote:
See if we take off things that were made by Spartan Games that really just leaves Mantic's Armada and Leviathans. Mantic's Armada was the one other I mentioned (that I couldn't recall the name of); meanwhile Leviathans never really went anywhere before and I get a feeling its just way more niche than Dystopian Wars or Man O War ever were.

Meanwhile Dreadfleet I don't really count because that really was more of a one and done boxed game rather than a fleet battle game. Which was a huge part of the problem. Super awesome ships, but only 1 per race. No fleets, no expansions, no additional content; just one and done. It was very much more a boardgame with models instead of a wargame.




In the end Dystopian Wars is pretty much on its own. Lets also not forget it never really failed as a game, it was more the company that failed as a firm through multiple avenues. Far as I was aware the original game always sold wel - save in periods when Spartan was focusing on another game and left it to languish.



We can hope that as the new Dystopian Wars will pick up steam as game groups get more active and the social side of wargaming basically rebuilds itself. There's no denying that a lack of events, conventions and clubs most certainly hurts the growth of new games


You forgot about Pirates of the Spanish Main by Wizkids.

 Shrapnelsmile wrote:
aside from a steampunk vs. fantasy theme, is DW considerably different from Mantic's Armada in game play and style? I had the opportunity for a demo this weekend but the guy had to go to a wedding. We were both equally disappointed and horrified for him.


I would say the two are fairly different, Armada is based on the Black Seas ruleset from Warlord, and is very focused on Age of Sail style maneuver and combat, and so has rules and mechanisms relating to a ships orientation relative to the wind, and a lot of play revolves around maneuvering with that in mind (in fact, the order of activation is based on "weather gauge" - meaning that ships will activate across the table based on how close they are to the "point of origin" for the wind - which can change from turn to turn - some/all of these wind rules are advanced/optional rules in Armada whereas they are core rules in Black Seas. ), whereas Dystopian Wars doesn't really have the same concern. In terms of combat the rules aren't too different from one another, weapons in both fall into categories/types that dictate their range/performance, but whereas Dystopian Wars uses proprietary d6s, Black Seas (and I assume Armada) uses generic D10s (though they recommend color coding so that you can differentiate how many of each type of weapon is firing in a given volley). When firing in Black Seas (again, I assume also in Armada) you have to choose to aim high or low, high means you're targeting sails and masts, low means you're targeting hull - no such distinction exists in DW. In Armada, 10s to-hit score crits (note, the math in Armada is reversed from Black Seas, in Black Seas 1s are crits 10s are misses, in Armada the reverse is true) - in Dystopian Wars, the equivalent of a "6" is basically an exploding die, i.e. you get to roll an additional die into the attack pool. etc. etc. etc. At the end of the day they are both games played with dice and tiny ships, so in that sense they are similar, but how each game goes about figuring out how these things interact is different.

CoALabaer wrote:
Wargamers hate two things: the state of the game and change.
 
   
Made in si
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 Shrapnelsmile wrote:
aside from a steampunk vs. fantasy theme, is DW considerably different from Mantic's Armada in game play and style? I had the opportunity for a demo this weekend but the guy had to go to a wedding. We were both equally disappointed and horrified for him.


I haven't played Armada per se, but I played Black Seas, and Amada is the same system with magic bolted on. I found Black Seas, while having satisfying sailing/wind mechanics, to be incredibly dull as even a perfectly lined up shot will just chip away something like 10% of the target and you end up with this excruciatinlgy slow game of circling the table trying to line up more shots than the enemy. From what I've seen of Armada on youtube it's about the same gak. IMHO Armada sculpts also look like happy meal toys.

DW is almost the reverse, firepower is brutal and fire arcs more forgiving, most of the time your only worry is if you can line up an extra broadside at a different target, you main guns are probably at max effect on most rounds. Maneuvering is also pretty well done but of course there's no wind to worry about. Its own weak point is that it takes a long time to resolve attacks, you are throwing buckets of proprietary dice and often you have to count how many of each of the 6 different symbols you rolled. This eats up time and makes the game last fewer rounds and so less movement gets done. I would also say ships move relatively slow compared to how quick they die, so to a spectator passing by every hour the game can look pretty static, with fleets just getting smaller as they crawl straight forward.

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Decrepit Dakkanaut




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In fairness that's kind of what a sea battle is expected to be. However with huge titans with close combat weapons, chainsaw submarines and air units (which I suspect some will come with bombs!) I think you'll see forces get more up close and personal.

There's also a natural evolution most games go through where armies start small and steadily grow larger as the core market get more models and want to use them and as factions get more diverse rosters and, again, players want to use that diversity.


Heck games that last long enough can go through ups and downs as the core company shifts focus over time (bigger and bigger as they focus on the core players; adding in smaller default army sizes when they want to focus on newbies and breaking down the barrier of entry)

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 Shrapnelsmile wrote:
aside from a steampunk vs. fantasy theme, is DW considerably different from Mantic's Armada in game play and style? I had the opportunity for a demo this weekend but the guy had to go to a wedding. We were both equally disappointed and horrified for him.


There are players who end up surprised at how deadly the game can be... As monster volleys can cause horrendous amounts of damage in one go. The big smashy robots also do big smashy robot things and are pure alpha strike units.

But then again, the designer recently said (on the FB group) that the game is designed to have roughly 8 units a side that are not supposed to be slugging it out in a 5 turn uneventful type of game. The whole Dystopian age setting is kind of about humanity discovering devastating technology and not knowing how to use it responsibly.

It's also a game with alternate activations. It can take a while to sort particularly big dice pool in the first 2 rounds,but that quickly dwindles away as you progress through the game... And because it's alternate activations, you are never stood there doing nothing at all during the game for too long.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/09/11 20:25:52


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Can be pretty quick to paint, too.

Two afternoons with just Contrasts




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MN (Currently in WY)

Looks good!

I am strongly thinking of picking up the Strontium Skies box.

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 Easy E wrote:
Looks good!

I am strongly thinking of picking up the Strontium Skies box.


Yeah, I'm loving the Zeppelins, and I like the aesthetic of the canadian cruisers as well. 2 more factions lets go.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Elmir wrote:

It's also a game with alternate activations. It can take a while to sort particularly big dice pool in the first 2 rounds,but that quickly dwindles away as you progress through the game... And because it's alternate activations, you are never stood there doing nothing at all during the game for too long.

I recently played my first game at 1k points, didn't really have much of an issue sorting the dice pools. It's basically the same time as picking out dice in 40k. I was pleasantly surprised, was expecting it to be worse.

We played the Fog mission, so everything had obscuring and was tougher than expected. Turns 1 and 2 just had single ships going down (Cruisers and Frigates) or getting crippled, while Turn 3 saw both fleets pretty decimated.
Maneuverability felt fine, but I was playing Alliance Levant so my fleet was probably at the upper end there.

Only real pain point that we noticed was flipping victory & valor cards to read both sides of the effect.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/10/06 07:41:47


https://atlachsshipyard.blogspot.com/
Just a tiny blog about Dystopian Wars 
   
Made in si
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My first ever game was Fog too. Makes the dice rolls fast!

Wait till you get rolling 30 dice and sort them all out in piles because you have an ability to re-roll one symbol of your choice (like all blanks, or all single counters), then re-roll your Hits and Double Hits because you're attacking into a magnetic generator, then roll bonus dice from exploding hits

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 lord_blackfang wrote:
My first ever game was Fog too. Makes the dice rolls fast!

Wait till you get rolling 30 dice and sort them all out in piles because you have an ability to re-roll one symbol of your choice (like all blanks, or all single counters), then re-roll your Hits and Double Hits because you're attacking into a magnetic generator, then roll bonus dice from exploding hits


Levant with plenty of heat lances and solex. Like I said, not as bad as I expected.

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Group shot of all I've painted in the last 7 days




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The fleet looks good.

I still have some models from old Dystopian Wars and have seen it in abundance since it was relatively popular around 2010-2012. Don't know much about the relaunch, but new sculpts seem more cartoonish than the old ones, although the old ones were Red Alert enough already.
   
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There is definitely a large difference in aesthetics. The old sculpts, while fantastical (like the Statue of Liberty on hoverboard) had a style that somehow still looked like you were looking at a real world ship recognition guide while the new ones have a more toy-like chunkyness to them.

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I think part of that is perhaps that the old were resin metal whilst the modern are nearly all plastic with a few resin. The shift to plastics might well mean that they've made certain details more chunky whilst other finer detailing is harder to achieve with plastics and thus appears less.


I also think it might be a difference in the style of 3D renders they use and that they don't put out enough physical photos of their models (Which is a fault I lay at the feet of a lot of model firms these days - heck whilst Infinity goes a bit overboard in the quality of paintwork they do at least show off most of hteir stuff as an actual model)

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 Overread wrote:
I think part of that is perhaps that the old were resin metal whilst the modern are nearly all plastic with a few resin. The shift to plastics might well mean that they've made certain details more chunky whilst other finer detailing is harder to achieve with plastics and thus appears less.


I also think it might be a difference in the style of 3D renders they use and that they don't put out enough physical photos of their models (Which is a fault I lay at the feet of a lot of model firms these days - heck whilst Infinity goes a bit overboard in the quality of paintwork they do at least show off most of hteir stuff as an actual model)



Having painted with the last sets of plastics, the difference in fine detail is definitely there between their first sets of plastic sprues and the latest models... I don't think it's necessarily a limitation of plastics, but more a case of it being a relatively new medium for the company.

I would also like to see a lot more pictures of physical models (on tabletops) on their website to help newer players out getting an idea of what's out there. However, I don't think their release pipe-line (which seems to be way shorter compared to mammoth companies like GW) allows them to get boxes out with fully painted models on them. I do think Warcradle operates closer to the "6 months to a year between finalized design, mold and product" timeline as opposed to the 3-4 year window GW has.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/10/08 21:24:10


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Thing is they could still populate their website with painted models and a proper clear store and lore page per unit coupled with battle reports and battles and such.

I think whilst the community can do a lot, its good for a company to do their own stuff as well. Internal stuff can achieve a standard and it at least is easy to find; community level stuff depends where on the community you interact if there is any and can also vary widely in quality and reliability. Someone might do a fantastic series of painting and battle reports and then move on with life and other interests.



And its not just WC, too many model firms today I feel rely too heavily on renders and not enough paintwork and photos.

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