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Has anyone seen the 40K rukes for these Kill Zone units yet?

Not sure there are any yet. They'll probably.

dang, i wanted a reason to get that set

They will eventually get 40K rules. Probably when they are released as standalone kits, possibly earlier for Kroot since they would be new options for an existing unit.

As for an excuse to get them, they look cool isn’t enough?

I think it was on one of the streams they were saying the Breachers were not getting any 40K rules as there was no Army for them to fit into.

Can't see the Kroot not either get specific 40K rules or being used for an existing Kroot unit however.

 alextroy wrote:
They will eventually get 40K rules. Probably when they are released as standalone kits, possibly earlier for Kroot since they would be new options for an existing unit.

As for an excuse to get them, they look cool isn’t enough?

They could just make them Agents of the Imperium I guess.

I'd love to see the KT crew for Kroot get brought in as a new unit, Stalker or Headhunter Kindred.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2022/09/28/special-forces-enter-open-warfare-with-free-warhammer-40000-rules-for-five-kill-teams/

Includes a traitor guard datasheet for CSM too

 xttz wrote:
Includes a traitor guard datasheet for CSM too

Yup. Aaaannnddd......they gave them the CULTISTS keyword. So, absolutely no chance of building anything close to a R&H/LatD style army with them. Whelp, I guess the dumbster fire that is the 9th edition CSM codex still continues to burn......

 Gadzilla666 wrote:

 xttz wrote:
Includes a traitor guard datasheet for CSM too

Yup. Aaaannnddd......they gave them the CULTISTS keyword. So, absolutely no chance of building anything close to a R&H/LatD style army with them. Whelp, I guess the dumbster fire that is the 9th edition CSM codex still continues to burn......

They also gave them the "Traitor Guardsman" keyword.

What's your point? That them having the "Cultists" keyword and them benefitting from auras and stratagems is somehow a bad thing?

I'm a bit disappointed that the enforcer is now an elite choice instead of the HQ the traitor commissar was in the Blackstone fortress rules

Brickfix wrote:
I'm a bit disappointed that the enforcer is now an elite choice instead of the HQ the traitor commissar was in the Blackstone fortress rules

That IS disappointing. An HQ designation would have allowed you to build a detachment.

The good news is that because all of the old BSF rules WERE compatible with 9th, in theory, if you had a group that was okay with it, you could still use the original 40k rules instead of the new ones. The issue arises if the new sheet has stuff that you like that wasn't contained in the original. Getting a group to allow one sheet or the other will be easier than getting a group to accept a houserule that cherry picks the things you want from each sheet.

For my part, I'm glad they did a) free and b) quickly.

If only there were a Cultist HQ...

Remember that Commissars(which Enforcers are supposed to be broadly related to) aren't HQ choices in Guard. It's the Lord-Commissar that is.

Another datasheet for the Elucidean Star Striders too. I'm glad to see the Rotary cannon on the voidsmen is now a free upgrade at 5 models, I like the chance to close quarters fighting as well. (I don't know if that's a recent change, but it's different from the last time I fielded them.)

Kanluwen wrote:

 Gadzilla666 wrote:

 xttz wrote:
Includes a traitor guard datasheet for CSM too

Yup. Aaaannnddd......they gave them the CULTISTS keyword. So, absolutely no chance of building anything close to a R&H/LatD style army with them. Whelp, I guess the dumbster fire that is the 9th edition CSM codex still continues to burn......

They also gave them the "Traitor Guardsman" keyword.

What's your point? That them having the "Cultists" keyword and them benefitting from auras and stratagems is somehow a bad thing?

Mere Mortals. You know, the rule that says you can't have more CULTIST units than CORE HERETIC ASTARTES units? And thus prevents building an army comprised of solely the mortal followers of Chaos?

Kanluwen wrote:If only there were a Cultist HQ...

Which can't be your army's Warlord, once again because of the Mere Mortals rule. You have to include some Astartes. So, no R&H/LatD style army is possible. That's my "point".

Maybe just go play Guard if you want to play Guard then?

Is there a rule that says you have to use the detachment rules from the codex? Could you Just use the traitors keyword, but opt out of the codex special rules? And then not worry about mere mortals, or relics, stratagems, etc?

If you're really keen to play pure cultists, that could be a way.

 Kanluwen wrote:
Maybe just go play Guard if you want to play Guard then?

With that logic, why should we even have separate codexes for Loyalist Scum Marines and Chaos Space Marines? Because they aren't the same thing. Exactly how many Daemon Engines, Mutants, and Spawn are in your Cadians?

Gods, I can't wait for that Cults and Militia PDF.

 Kanluwen wrote:
If only there were a Cultist HQ...

Remember that Commissars(which Enforcers are supposed to be broadly related to) aren't HQ choices in Guard. It's the Lord-Commissar that is.

So khorne forces and non-cult forces can just not have a hq, nvm non csm astartes forces?

What a great suggestion.

 Gadzilla666 wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
Maybe just go play Guard if you want to play Guard then?

With that logic, why should we even have separate codexes for Loyalist Scum Marines and Chaos Space Marines? Because they aren't the same thing. Exactly how many Daemon Engines, Mutants, and Spawn are in your Cadians?

As many as I want, if I choose to proxy?

Here's the thing in any regards:
You're not a separate codex. You're effectively a sublist in the main CSM book. You've been Skitarii'd for all intents and purposes.

It sucks. But maybe they'll do something? Doubtful you'd want that though.

Gods, I can't wait for that Cults and Militia PDF.

Yeah well, I've been waiting for the promised PDF of Fires of Cyraxus units for a few years now...hopefully you get something but you probably won't.

Man I love that we got these for free! Ensures best possible compatibiity for playing mixed KT21/40K Crusade armies. Good stuff.

Now I'm really keen on starting a small T'au army. Always thought the old Kroot looked too low tech to be a part of a mecha heavy MEQ force, the new farstalkers are a much better fit IMHO.

OTOH, Now the Navy Breachers could actually ride a Valkyrie to battle.. better not to think about this too much hehehe!

 Gadzilla666 wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:

 Gadzilla666 wrote:

 xttz wrote:
Includes a traitor guard datasheet for CSM too

Yup. Aaaannnddd......they gave them the CULTISTS keyword. So, absolutely no chance of building anything close to a R&H/LatD style army with them. Whelp, I guess the dumbster fire that is the 9th edition CSM codex still continues to burn......

They also gave them the "Traitor Guardsman" keyword.

What's your point? That them having the "Cultists" keyword and them benefitting from auras and stratagems is somehow a bad thing?

Mere Mortals. You know, the rule that says you can't have more CULTIST units than CORE HERETIC ASTARTES units? And thus prevents building an army comprised of solely the mortal followers of Chaos?

Kanluwen wrote:If only there were a Cultist HQ...

Which can't be your army's Warlord, once again because of the Mere Mortals rule. You have to include some Astartes. So, no R&H/LatD style army is possible. That's my "point".

I don't see why you're upset. The Codex [/i]is[i] called Codex: Chaos Space Marines.
It's not unreasonable to expect CSM to be the focus of thier own codex.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Gadzilla666 wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
Maybe just go play Guard if you want to play Guard then?

With that logic, why should we even have separate codexes for Loyalist Scum Marines and Chaos Space Marines? Because they aren't the same thing. Exactly how many Daemon Engines, Mutants, and Spawn are in your Cadians?

As many as I want, if I choose to proxy?

Here's the thing in any regards:
You're not a separate codex. You're effectively a sublist in the main CSM book. You've been Skitarii'd for all intents and purposes.

It sucks. But maybe they'll do something? Doubtful you'd want that though.

Gods, I can't wait for that Cults and Militia PDF.

Yeah well, I've been waiting for the promised PDF of Fires of Cyraxus units for a few years now...hopefully you get something but you probably won't.

The Cults and Militia PDF is coming, they've already said so, same for Daemons of the Ruinstorm. I'd expect they'll wait for the Solar Auxilia book to release though, as there will be some shared units.

And why wouldn't I want them to "do something"?

Ok important questions.

Do the starstrider rules replace the old starstrider codex and the rogue trader rules from the warzone book?

Can I still feild a rogue trader army?

Are the stratagem and warlord traits still good from both books still good?

Since the void men in the warzone book are elite and these void men are core, can I include both in a army since have different rules and keywords?

 Paymaster Games wrote:
Ok important questions.

Do the starstrider rules replace the old starstrider codex and the rogue trader rules from the warzone book?

Can I still feild a rogue trader army?

Are the stratagem and warlord traits still good from both books still good?

Since the void men in the warzone book are elite and these void men are core, can I include both in a army since have different rules and keywords?

These rules replace the 40k RT rules from Octarius... But they don't invalidate them, because everything in Octarius is in here too (with the exception of the RT Crusade rules... Which can now be used with THIS list). This list will allow you to build anything you could have built with the previous one... but now you can also include a Death Cult Executioner, a Lectro-Meister, and/or a Rejuvenant.

The way these extra models are included is interesting- they are added to the Rogue Trader unit. The RT still has the character keyword but the added models don't... which makes me think they can provide "Look Out Sir" protection to their RT but they can't benefit from "Look Out Sir" protection provided by a nearby unit of voidsmen.

It ALSO has the advantage of letting you sneak the retinue into an Imperial detachment using the RT's Agent rule, since they are a part of the RT's unit. As in the Octarius RT rules, the Voidsmen Unit has the Agents of the Imperium rule, but nothing that allows them to get around the "Only one Imperial Agent per detachment" rule if they want to join a detachment that has already been joined by an RT.

No, it doesn't.

I'm so hacked off with the navy stuff because I THOUGHT it was going to allow a Navy force as a usable- even if crap - 40k army.

Voidsmen at arms are now troops.
Breachers are an alternative troop.
Rogue traders are HQ, either as a protected character or a command squad equivalent.

But.....no. because whilst breachers and voidsmen can't be compulsory troops except in a NAVIS detachment- fine! - a Rogue trader now can't be a compulsory HQ choice AT ALL.

So you can never build a NAVIS detachment and hence never field the other two except as AGENTS. And whilst I'm fine with the rogue trader stats only being Elucidia's not the others (it's a PDF for the starstriders after all) she's lost her digital weapon and archeotech weapon meaning all the mortal wounds tricks that made her worth her cost.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
Theoretical sone of the stratagem still work because you only need a ROGUE TRADER to access them, and the VOIDSMEN stratagem only name checks voidsmen without a faction keyword.

Acquisition At Any Cost now only works for a rogue trader and retinue but that's fine because it basically gives them the same rule as the voidsmen for one round.

That's frustrating, seems like every time there's a cool model GW really messes up the detachment rules. This reminds me of how a big a pain Valerian and Aleya were.

You'd think it would be better for sales if they didn't screw up detachment rules for every cool new model...

locarno24 wrote:
No, it doesn't.

I'm so hacked off with the navy stuff because I THOUGHT it was going to allow a Navy force as a usable- even if crap - 40k army.

Voidsmen at arms are now troops.
Breachers are an alternative troop.
Rogue traders are HQ, either as a protected character or a command squad equivalent.

But.....no. because whilst breachers and voidsmen can't be compulsory troops except in a NAVIS detachment- fine! - a Rogue trader now can't be a compulsory HQ choice AT ALL.

So you can never build a NAVIS detachment and hence never field the other two except as AGENTS. And whilst I'm fine with the rogue trader stats only being Elucidia's not the others (it's a PDF for the starstriders after all) she's lost her digital weapon and archeotech weapon meaning all the mortal wounds tricks that made her worth her cost.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Theoretical sone of the stratagem still work because you only need a ROGUE TRADER to access them, and the VOIDSMEN stratagem only name checks voidsmen without a faction keyword.

Acquisition At Any Cost now only works for a rogue trader and retinue but that's fine because it basically gives them the same rule as the voidsmen for one round.

I hadn't even noticed they added Navis Imperialis keywords to the RT datacards. It think the RT not being able to be in a compulsary slot ever is a misprint- I think they were probably supposed to be the same as the other Navis units- they can fill compulsory slots if they are in a Navis or Cartographica detachment.

I might spam them with a bunch of questions- because it's a PDF, they may be slow to errata unless pressured.

 Gadzilla666 wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:

 Gadzilla666 wrote:

 xttz wrote:
Includes a traitor guard datasheet for CSM too

Yup. Aaaannnddd......they gave them the CULTISTS keyword. So, absolutely no chance of building anything close to a R&H/LatD style army with them. Whelp, I guess the dumbster fire that is the 9th edition CSM codex still continues to burn......

They also gave them the "Traitor Guardsman" keyword.

What's your point? That them having the "Cultists" keyword and them benefitting from auras and stratagems is somehow a bad thing?

Mere Mortals. You know, the rule that says you can't have more CULTIST units than CORE HERETIC ASTARTES units? And thus prevents building an army comprised of solely the mortal followers of Chaos?

CORE Infantry. Not just CORE!
Kan probably thinks it's the coolest fluffiest codex ever though

The inability of the only Navis HQ option available in game to be fielded as a compulsory HQ choice as would be needed in order to field a Navis detachment so that you could field Navis units as your compulsory Troops units and thus field a Navis army is mind-blowingly frustrating. I'm hoping that was an error that gets resolved quickly and not a "feature".

"Just house rule it"