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Made in mk
Spawn of Chaos




Warhammer 40K Universe

I’ve never understood this mutation, it’s like they’re doing more harm to their followers than good. I mean I get it; someone would say it’s just Chaos and they’re evil and that’s how it is, but they still represent positive aspects even though they’re overshadowed in the current timeline. Khorne out of all the four gives you the least mutations and I think being an honorable warrior dedicated to Khorne somewhere in the galaxy untouched by all the main races pays off instead of worshiping Slaanesh, Tzeentch and Nurgle. Nurgle is the worst, followed by Slaanesh. Tzeentch will just turn you into a random feather because of the lols. Nurgle may “love” his followers, but his mutations are the worst and if you upset him your punishment will be worse than death.

In the end serving Khorne with a bare minimum is the best thing if worshiping one god only, or Malal but he isn’t canon. Perhaps worshiping Chaos as a pantheon won’t give you that many horrible mutations compare to one dedicated god.
   
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Ah, now this one I’ll refer you to the original Realm of Chaos Books (copies sometimes available from WHW, Tottenham Court Road and the two US Citadels).

They’re rewards for service. Intended to strengthen their followers, so they can commit ever greater acts of worship.

Unfortunately, the Gods are utterly insane, and genuinely incapable of telling a beneficial mutation from a detrimental mutation.

So, someone could sacrifice a single enemy Leader, be rewarded with say, Iron Hard Skin. Another could sacrifice 100 enemy Leaders in a Grand Ritual, and be rewarded with a Pinhead, Silly Walk, Uncontrollable Flatulence and Brightly Patterned Skin.

To the gifting Gods, all that matters is the greater sacrifice was rewarded with more Gifts. That said recipient is now well on the road to Spawndom doesn’t matter.

And yes. All the Gifts/Mutations listed above are genuine possibilities from that era

   
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Undivided champions still tend to mutate, though.

Though there's a distinct difference between, say, "baroque spikey armour and vestigial horns" versus "noodle tentacles mouths everywhere argleblarglespawn"

I dont specifically recall reading khorne gives the least mutations. He doesn't like sorcery but Claws, fangs and molten brass for blood are all pretty par for the course. I agree tzeench is most given to extreme mutations- it's kind of his thing - but then most of his more skilled servants are sorcerors who can therefore reduce the risk of that sort of thing in a way an axe-swinging bezerker can't.

It's also worth noting that the others have their seductive/positive aspects as well - nurgle's is simplest of all because of who that appeal is generally to:

"You are in pain and dying. I can save you."



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Decrepit Dakkanaut




UK

Nurgle doesn't just gift you mutation. Nurgle helps to turn your body into a temple. A wonderful place where maggots, disease, fungus and more can reproduce and produce thousands of young spores and the like.

Nurgle is essentially a life god, but one who focuses on bacteria, fungus, maggots, flies and more. The "nasty" bits of nature that most "nature" gods we envision ignore or overlook. Papa Nurgle gives you boils and puss and oozing open wounds and sores to be the breeding ground. You give your life for the creation of countless other lives to be born.




Another aspect is that the Warp isn't exactly a place humans are supposed to go too. It operates by different rules and those rules can appear to create utterly insane mind bending situations for mortals. You touch upon mutation and the nature of the Chaos Gods; but there's also things like how time has no meaning in the Warp. You could step into the warp for a real world second and you might be in the warp for a second; a day; a year; a thousand lifetimes. And when you emerge a real second might have gone by or an hour or a day or a thousand lifetimes.


The gods aren't just insane, they think by totally different concepts.


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I wouldn’t say Nurgle so much focuses on microbial life, so much as he sees all life as equal.

Hence if his followers kill one non-follower? Untold billions of life forms will flourish in their wake.

His general gift to Plague Marines is less the various maladies or even immunity to them - just a release from the pain and symptoms. This is the same thing he offers those who turn to him when there’s plagues etc.

   
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Its also very funny to see a powerful champion get chicken legs.
   
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Leader of the Sept







The mutations are only "evil" if you view the human form as some kind of perfection.

Tentacles have advantages over bony arms under certain circumstances. As long as the chicken legs still function as effective legs, then their form is irrelevant. Nurgle's gifts help his followers do their devotional duty in terms of spreading pestilence and decay, and they also make them more resilient.

The entities getting chaotic gifts are true believers, and so they are actually gifts.

Spawn are truly the beloved of the gods because of all the gifts bestowed. they are no longer human, and therefore human values and life goals don't really apply any more.

There are plenty of modern day religions where the devotional requirement can seem bizarre to those outside the religion.

If anything, the problem with mutations is that it makes the supply chain pretty hard to support. Rather than a huge amount of standardised kit, there is a lot of random requirements for rifles that can be fired by tentacle and chicken leg boots.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2022/10/04 16:59:44


Please excuse any spelling errors. I use a tablet frequently and software keyboards are a pain!

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Spawn of Chaos




Warhammer 40K Universe

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Ah, now this one I’ll refer you to the original Realm of Chaos Books (copies sometimes available from WHW, Tottenham Court Road and the two US Citadels).

They’re rewards for service. Intended to strengthen their followers, so they can commit ever greater acts of worship.

Unfortunately, the Gods are utterly insane, and genuinely incapable of telling a beneficial mutation from a detrimental mutation.

So, someone could sacrifice a single enemy Leader, be rewarded with say, Iron Hard Skin. Another could sacrifice 100 enemy Leaders in a Grand Ritual, and be rewarded with a Pinhead, Silly Walk, Uncontrollable Flatulence and Brightly Patterned Skin.

To the gifting Gods, all that matters is the greater sacrifice was rewarded with more Gifts. That said recipient is now well on the road to Spawndom doesn’t matter.

And yes. All the Gifts/Mutations listed above are genuine possibilities from that era

Yeah I guess this answers my question. I thought that the Gods operated on some form of logic. I know that the Warp operates differently from real space, but logic and coherent thoughts should apply a bigger role for "Gods". Being utterly insane does contradict someone like Tzeentch but I guess knowing everything and what's inside Slaanesh's closet does make someone go insane.

locarno24 wrote:
Undivided champions still tend to mutate, though.

Though there's a distinct difference between, say, "baroque spikey armour and vestigial horns" versus "noodle tentacles mouths everywhere argleblarglespawn"

I dont specifically recall reading khorne gives the least mutations. He doesn't like sorcery but Claws, fangs and molten brass for blood are all pretty par for the course. I agree tzeench is most given to extreme mutations- it's kind of his thing - but then most of his more skilled servants are sorcerors who can therefore reduce the risk of that sort of thing in a way an axe-swinging bezerker can't.

It's also worth noting that the others have their seductive/positive aspects as well - nurgle's is simplest of all because of who that appeal is generally to:

"You are in pain and dying. I can save you."

I'd take spikey armor and horns any day instead of octopus legs with my mouth replaced by a vagina.

Khorne does give the least mutations when you're not a fanatic follower. Usually those that follow Khorne for battle just get bigger muscles as far as I know. IDK why Tzeentch gives the most mutations, he should give none at all unless you're ascending to daemonhood which is an entirely different thing. The only thing you're doing is gathering knowledge and the use of sorcery. I don't understand the transformation into a chicken.

Yeah Nurgle doesn't save you from my point of you. He just takes the pain away from you and makes you a walking corpse filled with his swamp magic. If he were to "save" you he would regenerate you, but the only god in existence to do this is Isha.

 Flinty wrote:
The mutations are only "evil" if you view the human form as some kind of perfection.

That's the thing. They are! @Mad Doc Grotsnik made the clearest answer (even I never thought of it before). The Gods are utterly insane so they cannot distinguish a good mutation from bad.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/10/04 20:03:45


 
   
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Going back to Realms of Chaos, once you had received enough Chaos Gifts and Mutations, you had to take a Willpower Test.

Fail it, and your body gave in to the chaotic energies flowing through it, devolving the character into a Chaos Spawn.

Pass it? And you achieve apotheosis, and became a Daemon Prince.

Both were typically venerated as blessed by the Gods.

   
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Leader of the Sept







Again with the putting human sensibilities on entities that are entirely alien, and appear to enjoy a good joke as much as the next weird parallel universe spanning meta consciousness.

Tzeench is not just the god of sorcery but also change and schemes. Turning a mortal into a feather may be part of some scheme or just an extreme form of change.

The gifts they bestow aren’t there to make the recipient happier necessarily, they are done to further the agenda of the god in question. Even if that agenda at the time is just “this would be good for a laugh”

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/10/04 19:26:41


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Honestly, I got the impression that most mutations were random and without thought. When you see a guy with eyestalks among a pack of chaos cultists, it seems to me that it's basically just randomness with a pinch of creepy and organic to keep things properly grimdark.

In the cases where mutations do seem more thought-out/poetic/symbolic, I get the impression that it's the result of the mutant's mind or the minds of those who think about him influencing the exact form the mutation takes. You apply the water of the warp to the greenstuff of mortal flesh, and then shape it with thought and symbolism.

I imagine this is the case for most god-aligned mutations. I suspect most Slaaneshi crab claws are less of a conscious choice on the part of Slaanesh and more a natural consequence of their alignment with Slaanesh causing their greenstuff to be shaped by Slaaneshi motifs. Slaaneshi things have crab claws. This mutant is Slaaneshi. Thus this mutant has a crab claw. Some mutations are probably part of a "conscious" (human term only vaguely applies) choice on the part of the chaos gods, but those strike me as rare exceptions rather than the norm.


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There is also going to be a certain amount of "for the lulz" with the Chaos gods. They'll give someone a detrimental mutation because its funny, or as punishment for a slight, or as a "be careful what you wish for", etc...

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Yeah Nurgle doesn't save you from my point of you. He just takes the pain away from you


Yeah......but that IS from your point of view. Ask someone with a crippling terminal illness who is in agony every waking moment what they'd give to make the pain stop and you may get a different answer....

And Khorne does mutate people too - and not to put too fine a point on it: "worshipping with the bare minimum" is not a great plan.

There are two reasons a chaos follower might mutate - one is a deliberate and generally broadly useful 'gift' by a patron god or a representative daemon, the other is just general random mutations from background warp feckery due to badly shielded warp travel and being in the presence of daemons, sorcerors, etc.

A half-hearted 'follower' of chaos is much more likely to accumulate the latter than the former....


Essentially, mutations- visible or not- are the symptoms of accumulated corruption and warp exposure, meaning they represent stepping stones on the way to the grand prize of immortality-by-daemonhood. Or spawndom (which is what happens if your patron isn't impressed).

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2022/10/05 08:02:21


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Luton, England

I would say that part of the reason is exposure to the power of the warp has a mutating effect - it warps those that touch it you could say.

Another part of it is that the mutations dehumanise those afflicted by them and thus make them more malleable to the influence of the chaos gods.

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The Warp itself also taints and mutates living matter. Chances are some mutations aren't even the Chaos' gods doing anything. They just reach out and touch you with enough warp that something mutates.

Ergo its not even for the lulz or for any reason, they just reach out and "bless" you with a touch.

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 Wyldhunt wrote:
[snip]

I imagine this is the case for most god-aligned mutations. I suspect most Slaaneshi crab claws are less of a conscious choice on the part of Slaanesh and more a natural consequence of their alignment with Slaanesh causing their greenstuff to be shaped by Slaaneshi motifs. Slaaneshi things have crab claws. This mutant is Slaaneshi. Thus this mutant has a crab claw. Some mutations are probably part of a "conscious" (human term only vaguely applies) choice on the part of the chaos gods, but those strike me as rare exceptions rather than the norm.


There is a problem with this though, in that GW have made an aesthetic choice about models falling under each god, and that is reflected in the fluff, and then echoed by players wanting to emulate the aesthetic for it to be recognisable to the wider community. You can’t then assign control over this to the fictional characters.

Please excuse any spelling errors. I use a tablet frequently and software keyboards are a pain!

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Well….we can!

Going back to Realms of Chaos, God specific gifts did exists. For instance, if a mutation was Daemonic in nature, and the beneficiary was Marked, it was that God’s Daemon.

Now, is that form following faith, or a sign of conscious decision by the Gods? Entirely open to debate.

   
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Anyone can become mutated when in the presence of warp energy, even people who don't follow Chaos. It's just the collected energies of the warp coming into contact with material form. Now with Chaos gifts, while some of them can be detrimental, like what happened to one Iron Warrior in Gate of Bones who developed a limp because of his foot becoming fused with his boot, they often are part of a longer plan on the part of a particular Chaos god. In the novel Lords of Silence, Vorx states that many of the mutations he gained while being in the Death Guard he thought were originally bad, but later came to serve some kind of purpose. Some of them can actually be prompted by the actions of a mortal, like how some Masters of Executions remove one of their eyes, only for it to be replaced with a form of warp vision that allows them to hunt down single individuals no matter how that person tries to hide.
   
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I'm paraphrasing, but Iskandar Khayon puts it down to "wearing our sins on our flesh" or somesuch. I think he uses the Justaerin as his example, how they are headlong and bullish, so their armour tends to manifest horns etc. in response. I think he also uses Ahriman as an example, who (according to Khayon) has a screaming hole beneath his armour where his face used to be.

Basically, this, but grimdark.

   
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 ArcaneHorror wrote:
Anyone can become mutated when in the presence of warp energy, even people who don't follow Chaos. It's just the collected energies of the warp coming into contact with material form. Now with Chaos gifts, while some of them can be detrimental, like what happened to one Iron Warrior in Gate of Bones who developed a limp because of his foot becoming fused with his boot, they often are part of a longer plan on the part of a particular Chaos god. In the novel Lords of Silence, Vorx states that many of the mutations he gained while being in the Death Guard he thought were originally bad, but later came to serve some kind of purpose. Some of them can actually be prompted by the actions of a mortal, like how some Masters of Executions remove one of their eyes, only for it to be replaced with a form of warp vision that allows them to hunt down single individuals no matter how that person tries to hide.


Vorx could simply be rationalising his mutations there. Giving divine purpose where in fact there is none. Literal wishful thinking.

I mean, if your skin constantly leeches potent acid, so you can no longer wear armour? That’s…not really much of a result, as it compromises your overall combat potential. Yes you can absolutely give the nastiest bear hugs now, but without armour, the chances of you getting close enough (and indeed not just melting your own way out of the vessel you were travelling aboard) are really low.

So whilst some can prove a genuine boon, whether that was apparent at first glance? It’s far from universal. After all, Spawndom itself is a mutation of sorts.

   
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I think the answer is that the gods have the ability to control the mutations they give, but often they don't. They could just pick a mutation from the list, but sometimes its more fun to just randomly roll and see what happens. Or they don't care enough to give a particular follower a specific mutation, just let him roll on the random mutation table.

But a particularly favored/disfavored follower, they're gonna get specifically chosen mutations.

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They roll a d6 for it. Sucks for you if you get a 1 though :p

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More like a D10000. Evens are bad mutations, odds are good, except they switch every second so you don't know what you're gonna get.

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Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.

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darknation wrote:I'm paraphrasing, but Iskandar Khayon puts it down to "wearing our sins on our flesh" or somesuch. I think he uses the Justaerin as his example, how they are headlong and bullish, so their armour tends to manifest horns etc. in response.


Grey Templar wrote:I think the answer is that the gods have the ability to control the mutations they give, but often they don't. They could just pick a mutation from the list, but sometimes its more fun to just randomly roll and see what happens. Or they don't care enough to give a particular follower a specific mutation, just let him roll on the random mutation table.

But a particularly favored/disfavored follower, they're gonna get specifically chosen mutations.


These are inkeeping with my headcanon. Usually mutations are basically random or shaped by passing, unfocused thoughts. Sometimes the nature of the mutation is symbolically significant and shaped by either the mutant's thoughts or the thoughts of others. And then every so often a chaos god actually notices the mortal and decides to give them something useful/cool/appropriate/inkeeping with a long-term plan.

Sometimes the marks I leave in the snow are just footsteps I left without thinking about it. Sometimes the marks are in a shape that tells a story about what I was doing or thinking at the time. And sometimes I intentionally lay in the snow and make a snow angel.


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"I thank you wise Tzeentch for these extra eyes with which I can gather more knowledge to fuel my Psychic prowess!"
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 Wyldhunt wrote:
darknation wrote:I'm paraphrasing, but Iskandar Khayon puts it down to "wearing our sins on our flesh" or somesuch. I think he uses the Justaerin as his example, how they are headlong and bullish, so their armour tends to manifest horns etc. in response.


Grey Templar wrote:I think the answer is that the gods have the ability to control the mutations they give, but often they don't. They could just pick a mutation from the list, but sometimes its more fun to just randomly roll and see what happens. Or they don't care enough to give a particular follower a specific mutation, just let him roll on the random mutation table.

But a particularly favored/disfavored follower, they're gonna get specifically chosen mutations.


These are inkeeping with my headcanon. Usually mutations are basically random or shaped by passing, unfocused thoughts. Sometimes the nature of the mutation is symbolically significant and shaped by either the mutant's thoughts or the thoughts of others. And then every so often a chaos god actually notices the mortal and decides to give them something useful/cool/appropriate/inkeeping with a long-term plan.

Sometimes the marks I leave in the snow are just footsteps I left without thinking about it. Sometimes the marks are in a shape that tells a story about what I was doing or thinking at the time. And sometimes I intentionally lay in the snow and make a snow angel.


And sometimes the snow is yellow...

Please excuse any spelling errors. I use a tablet frequently and software keyboards are a pain!

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 Wyldhunt wrote:
darknation wrote:I'm paraphrasing, but Iskandar Khayon puts it down to "wearing our sins on our flesh" or somesuch. I think he uses the Justaerin as his example, how they are headlong and bullish, so their armour tends to manifest horns etc. in response.


Grey Templar wrote:I think the answer is that the gods have the ability to control the mutations they give, but often they don't. They could just pick a mutation from the list, but sometimes its more fun to just randomly roll and see what happens. Or they don't care enough to give a particular follower a specific mutation, just let him roll on the random mutation table.

But a particularly favored/disfavored follower, they're gonna get specifically chosen mutations.


These are inkeeping with my headcanon. Usually mutations are basically random or shaped by passing, unfocused thoughts. Sometimes the nature of the mutation is symbolically significant and shaped by either the mutant's thoughts or the thoughts of others. And then every so often a chaos god actually notices the mortal and decides to give them something useful/cool/appropriate/inkeeping with a long-term plan.

Sometimes the marks I leave in the snow are just footsteps I left without thinking about it. Sometimes the marks are in a shape that tells a story about what I was doing or thinking at the time. And sometimes I intentionally lay in the snow and make a snow angel.


A very fleshed out discussion of it - naturally - is found in black crusade (the chaos 40k rpg).

Mechanically you roll randomly for your mutations but you can shift the result by your infamy bonus stat - basically a measure of how awesome you are.

Most mutations are guff but most sit within only a short shift of one that's at least not negative such that significant characters like the players will normally have a useful option.

About half the mutations have god-specific variations which are sometimes just aesthetic (wings are common but nurgle wings are usually flies, for example) but sometimes meaningful (demonic blood is good for everyone but the khornate version acts like a short ranged flamethrower if you're wounded badly).

Finally if you're devoted enough to a specific power you get to roll on gifts of the gods which works like the mutations table but is better and more focused, containing stuff like 'the mark of [insert name here]'.


Basically the more awesome and strong willed you are the more control you have over the random element and the more devoted you are to a power the more effort they'll put into offering you broadly thematic and useful gifts in the first place.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/10/08 17:51:52


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I’m lazy and havent read the other responses so apologies if I’m repeating other point but

A) who thinks that the mutations are horrid? OP does, probably normal imperial citizens. But the other worshipers of chaos? And the mutated? Probably think they look pretty good.

B) my head cannon is that mutation comes from 2 places. One is that the chaos gods choose heros to be imbued with some power, look at Lucius the eternal, his mutations are not random tentacles, they rewards that suit his corrupted persona and skill as a fighter that has impressed slaneesh more than most others. The other kind of mutation comes from exposing your flesh and soul to the warp which has an effect over time, sort of like radiation. The mutations are a result of your emotional connection to the warp manifesting.

It would be interesting to see if non human species mutate in the same way as humans do, all lumps, bumps, tentacles and mouths
   
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Depends on the individual in question. An extra eye on a Khornate is an irritant but gaining a third eye as a Nurglite would be interpreted as a sign of favour from Papa Nurgle.
   
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Depends where the eye is. Eye on the back of your head so you've a wider angle of view means you can watch your own back when in the thick of battle. What better way to bathe yourself in blood and gain more Skulls for the Skull Throne than to have that eye in the back of your head!

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