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As the title says, another poll.

Let's lay out some definitions here first off.
GW still have, for sale, some models that are from 3rd edition 40k 1999.

That's 23 years ago. People have been born, grown up, and have likely graduated college through that period of time.

We know GW has made HUGE leaps and bounds in updating some of the ancient ranges of models. We got big waves of Necron, Eldar, Chaos Marines, and plenty of others, and still there are lots more to consider.
Today we're ONLY looking at 40k models, and I'll list out a handful of models across the factions that have yet to be updated along with when they first came out.

What I want to know is simple: How long do you think it'll be until GW update all of these models to modern plastic?

Let's take a look:

-Missionaries - 1998, still has rules in Sisters of Battle, but no new models
-Mandrakes - 2008, resin models made when Dark Eldar got their big 'revamp' in 5th edition, alongside Grotesques
-Tyranid Gaunts - 2001, plastic, but originally made back in 3rd edition
-Genestealers - 2004, plastic and showing its age, made in 4th edition
-Tyranid Lictor - 2004, made in resin in 4th edition, no plastic in sight
-Chaos Bikers - 1999, plastic kit, the box no longer has the options that the codex lists
-Chaos VUS - 1996, the vehicle upgrade sprue from 2nd edition is still being printed today on rhinos, land raiders, predators, and vindicators
-Warp Spiders - 1994, the oldest of the aspect warriors not yet moved to plastic, from 2nd edition
-Tau Stealth Suit - 2006, an old plastic kit still going strong.
-Ork Lootas - 2004, an iconic Ork kit, alongside Tankbustas, still in service

There are many more kits out there, some that are older, some that are more recent, that need to be updated. But let's take these kits, as they're rather iconic and likely can't be killed off as easily as a character (RIP Yarrick)

How many years before we see this short list above fully updated?

drbored wrote:
-Warp Spiders - 1998, the oldest of the aspect warriors not yet moved to plastic, from 2nd edition

Warp Spiders were released alongside 2nd ed Codex: Eldar and some of the Phoenix Lord models in early 1994

Edit: there was a rumour from the same sources who leaked the Craftworlds codex that Eldar would get another wave of models in 2023.

The Vyper is a plastic kit from 2nd and it's still going strong. Falcon too! The Rhino and Land Raider are 3rd ed too.

The Tau Stealth Suits aren't from 2001, the originals were metal XV-15s. The XV-25 plastic kit released as part of the 4th edition codex, so around 2006.

The Crisis suit isn't the same original kit, either. It's been updated since then.

 Mentlegen324 wrote:
The Tau Stealth Suits aren't from 2001, the originals were metal XV-15s. The XV-25 plastic kit released as part of the 4th edition codex, so around 2006.

The Crisis suit isn't the same original kit, either. It's been updated since then.

ty ty will update. I know some of the years are more when the edition started rather than when the model came out.

-Missionaries - 1998, still has rules in Sisters of Battle, but no new models

\shrug I give them better odds of disappearing on the next go-round.

-Mandrakes - 2008, resin models made when Dark Eldar got their big 'revamp' in 5th edition, alongside Grotesques

Should have been this time. But no idea why Lils was the only update.

-Tyranid Gaunts - 2001, plastic, but originally made back in 3rd edition
-Genestealers - 2004, plastic and showing its age, made in 4th edition
-Tyranid Lictor - 2004, made in resin in 4th edition, no plastic in sight

Didn't expect gaunts, did expect Lictors (and bios/pyros). Got flappy bird instead. Almost finished...

Genestealers are interesting, because there are more modern genestealers that were done in the Overkill(?) boxed game. But inexplicably in the original Space Hulk style with the fleshy back. Also the 'new' Space Hulk genestealers, though some of those have big terrain bits that don't fit well on a base. So modern plastic genestealer CAD assets exist. They just... aren't a kit.

-Chaos Bikers - 1999, plastic kit, the box no longer has the options that the codex lists

Another mystery, as rumor was there was to be a new kit with the current codex. Didn't happen, and doesn't seem like its happening with the WE codex either.

-Chaos VUS - 1996, the vehicle upgrade sprue from 2nd edition is still being printed today on rhinos, land raiders, predators, and vindicators

Truthfully, I'd be happy if they just swapped all this (for both chaos and imperial) over to the HH kits and called it a day. They could do an new chaos upgrade sprue or whatever. So many more weapon options and choices, and so much better than primaris floating-brick-tanks.

-Warp Spiders - 1994, the oldest of the aspect warriors not yet moved to plastic, from 2nd edition

Tripping at the finish line with eldar seems to be a thing. Though some of the other aspects are still also sad, and questioning sniper bikes. But glad they missed out on the horrible helmet redesign of the dark reapers.

-Tau Stealth Suit - 2006, an old plastic kit still going strong.

Its fine? Not sure this needs replacement, though they do look grotesquely oversized for stealth suits, especially compared to the originals.

-Ork Lootas - 2004, an iconic Ork kit, alongside Tankbustas, still in service

I believe (based on the fact that I've got plastic lootas but metal tankbustas from the blisters before the current resin kit, that these releases don't line up like this. The tankbustas with the hammers, pistols and squigs are a different sculpting style of ork. The alt build with the lootas is burnas.

And lootas got screwed by the 'what's in the box is mandatory in the codex' so the unit is now saddled with the mini-meks. They could definitely stand to be replaced so that curse isn't upon them anymore. And that they look designed for the same army, as well as fitting more than 5 models & 11 weapons on three rather empty sprues.

Considering space marines, the flagship product of GW, has not yet been updated to primaris after 2 edition, in some crucial slots like HQs etc Then the speculation about the entire model line becomes impossible. The game is probably die sooner then GW updates it all. Marines will maybe be full primaris ready for 11th ed.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/123mjQsYY-8UvsYJLV-ZkazjbsWrLCvVbuhvKKVPchlw/htmlview#

This list is a little out of date but covers a lot of stuff from the OP.

Lootas / Burnas / Tankbustas are apparently from 2008 rather than 2004.

IG Cadian infantry was just updated with a plastic upgrade sprue since 5th Ed; there are some FW compatible upgrades(shotgun vets, respirator heads, hostile environment sets) in between; now a newly 'Primaris' Cadian is released for 9th Ed.

IG Catachan infantry from 4th Ed; still await there much needed update(20+ yrs).

Gw are impossible to predict. Eg as noted earlier you'd have thought Tyranids would have got pyrovore/biovore duel kit and a deathleaper/lictor duel kit (both likely multiples of 3 models like the zoanthropes and others).

However despite not having any new models for a very long time (in full fairness tyranids are overall in a very diverse and good spot), they've not updated them.



If anything GW almost feels like they want to hang into a handful of finecast per army.
What's interesting is their recent move to mothball a bunch of models, many finecast, into "range rotation". Which suggests to me that on some level GW wants rid of finecast fast, but for some reason are also focused on releasing so many new things that they can't put a pause on them and do a big release of updated models.



Heck I was surprised that with the massive update Necrons got, GW still left the regular Destroyer in there. Another "update with optional parts for a lord" option would have been ideal.


Why GW makes some choices and not others is very hard to work out. We know they have a whole "design led" ethos which I do wonder if it means that the reason we don't see these logical updates is because no one in the design team wants to do them - which spells a worrying future for those armies when its something like Tyranids etc...

Karol wrote:
Considering space marines, the flagship product of GW, has not yet been updated to primaris after 2 edition, in some crucial slots like HQs etc Then the speculation about the entire model line becomes impossible. The game is probably die sooner then GW updates it all. Marines will maybe be full primaris ready for 11th ed.

I'm convinced Space Marine sales started to lull because GW were going absolutely full tilt into updating the range to the point where even hardcore Space Marine fans were getting sick of them and that's the only reason they've not had a release in a while. Chances are the only reason we've seen a gap for other stuff is because GW eased off due to dropping sales. They probably have a bunch of Marine resculpts ready to go for the next codex update.

Went with 2 years, but only for those models currently in finecast.

I voted for 10 years.

If GW put their mind to it, I think they could purge all the finecast/old stuff and replace it with plastic in about 2 edition cycles. If they really wanted to, they could probably do it in one. But they also need to give us new kits, as established players are more likely to pick up the new shiney rather then replace stuff they have already.

I’m not familiar with every range to make more detailed estimates.

Eldar still have enough finecast that it would take more then one release to get it all out. Even a major one like we just got this year. And while they hold up well, a lot of the plastics are ancient and need to be recut/consolidated as duel kits with new tech.

Tyranids are in a good spot. One reasonable codex released size drop and they are good to go.

Marines have the issue that their range is just so massive. Especially with all the named characters from assorted chapters. And can pull from the new 30k range. There are a lot of models that could use a new plastic version, but the codex is also a bloated mess. It’s impossible to guess how long it would take to update everything that could use it. The whole army and how it’s structured and ruled needs a good hard look. and by rules people, not the guys laying out the sprues.

How long is a piece of string?

I did a thread recently trying to do a count of how many kits were released in 9th Ed, as it’s been a busy edition.

Whilst incomplete, as we didn’t and still don’t have full info (AM now known, but World Eaters unclear), it was enough where every army could get an even 6 kits released.

Now, not all of those need 6 kits (Chaos and Imperial Knights in particular, Custards too I feel), but it does give us some idea of just how much GW can pump out.

What we need here is a complete listing of all non-plastic kits (for me those are top priority, other opinions available), and some kind of consensus on How Old Is Too Old for existing plastic.

That latter bit is going to be contentious, simply because, for example, a lot of Dark Eldar stuff is now 12 years old, but absolutely holds up against even the most recent releases. In short, just because a kit is old, doesn’t mean it’s naff.

 Sim-Life wrote:

Karol wrote:
Considering space marines, the flagship product of GW, has not yet been updated to primaris after 2 edition, in some crucial slots like HQs etc Then the speculation about the entire model line becomes impossible. The game is probably die sooner then GW updates it all. Marines will maybe be full primaris ready for 11th ed.

I'm convinced Space Marine sales started to lull because GW were going absolutely full tilt into updating the range to the point where even hardcore Space Marine fans were getting sick of them and that's the only reason they've not had a release in a while. Chances are the only reason we've seen a gap for other stuff is because GW eased off due to dropping sales. They probably have a bunch of Marine resculpts ready to go for the next codex update.

This edition has been heavily focused on getting a lot of the older core / troop models refreshed across many different factions. Not only that, but this has often been done in conjunction with new Combat Patrol boxes as it's easier for GW to get players buying into an extra faction if they have modern kits.

We've seen:
Necron troops (plus the monolith and others)
Two new Ork troop kits
Eldar guardians & rangers
Chaos cultists, following on from marines in 2019
Two flavours of guardsmen
Black templars
Berserkers

This is why I think Tyranids will be getting their range overhaul in 10th, to clear out all the 2001-2004 troop models.

Voss wrote:

-Chaos VUS - 1996, the vehicle upgrade sprue from 2nd edition is still being printed today on rhinos, land raiders, predators, and vindicators

Truthfully, I'd be happy if they just swapped all this (for both chaos and imperial) over to the HH kits and called it a day. They could do an new chaos upgrade sprue or whatever. So many more weapon options and choices, and so much better than primaris floating-brick-tanks.

Agreed, but the Chaos upgrade sprue isn't a "whatever", as gw seems to have a "no spikes, no Chaos" policy for plastic vehicles. See: the Kratos, and old plastic Contemptor. If it doesn't come with spikes and skulls, Chaos doesn't get it.

I do think that there's hope for the new plastic Contemptor and Leviathan, as those do come with optional "Traitor bits".

The Chaos vehicle upgrades sprues are from 3rd edition (the one with the havoc launcher etc. coming with the 3.5 codex in 2001, long after 2nd ed.), not 2nd ed. I have no idea why this lie keeps getting trotted out.

drbored wrote:

-Chaos VUS - 1996, the vehicle upgrade sprue from 2nd edition is still being printed today on rhinos, land raiders, predators, and vindicators

The first Chaos Upgrade Sprue(with the two slabs and the fences) is actually from 3rd Ed, not 2nd ed. The version with the pilots is from ~a year after the modern Rhino was released.

You actually had to sculpt and convert Chaos vehicles in 2nd ed. Or use the Epicast Chaos vehicles.

Regarding Chaos Bikers:
They're literally the only thing that didn't get released out of the Big Leak a few years back. Maybe they'll come out as part of the World Eaters? Maybe they'll be part of a 2 faction battlebox?

 Grimtuff wrote:
The Chaos vehicle upgrades sprues are from 3rd edition (the one with the havoc launcher etc. coming with the 3.5 codex in 2001, long after 2nd ed.), not 2nd ed. I have no idea why this lie keeps getting trotted out.

I think I’m dimly recalling a predecessor kit/sprue?

 Kanluwen wrote:
Regarding Chaos Bikers:
They're literally the only thing that didn't get released out of the Big Leak a few years back. Maybe they'll come out as part of the World Eaters? Maybe they'll be part of a 2 faction battlebox?

If the World Eaters points leak is anywhere near accurate - and I really hope it isn't - I wouldn't get your hope up for a new Chaos Biker kit alongside it.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

 Grimtuff wrote:
The Chaos vehicle upgrades sprues are from 3rd edition (the one with the havoc launcher etc. coming with the 3.5 codex in 2001, long after 2nd ed.), not 2nd ed. I have no idea why this lie keeps getting trotted out.

I think I’m dimly recalling a predecessor kit/sprue?

If you're thinking of this one, it first appears in the 2000 annual. So 3rd edition. Both of the sprues being referenced (this is the other one, it even says 2002 on it, thus making it 3rd ed as well) are from 3rd edition, not 2nd edition.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
What we need here is a complete listing of all non-plastic kits (for me those are top priority, other opinions available), and some kind of consensus on How Old Is Too Old for existing plastic.

I'm not touching the "old plastic", but here's what I can see listed as resin or metal in current live listings on GW.com.



...when did the Deamon Prince of Nurgle vanish?

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
How long is a piece of string?

I did a thread recently trying to do a count of how many kits were released in 9th Ed, as it’s been a busy edition.

Whilst incomplete, as we didn’t and still don’t have full info (AM now known, but World Eaters unclear), it was enough where every army could get an even 6 kits released.

Now, not all of those need 6 kits (Chaos and Imperial Knights in particular, Custards too I feel), but it does give us some idea of just how much GW can pump out.

What we need here is a complete listing of all non-plastic kits (for me those are top priority, other opinions available), and some kind of consensus on How Old Is Too Old for existing plastic.

That latter bit is going to be contentious, simply because, for example, a lot of Dark Eldar stuff is now 12 years old, but absolutely holds up against even the most recent releases. In short, just because a kit is old, doesn’t mean it’s naff.

IMO, the Dark Eldar plastic is when they started creating what we see now as 'modern' plastic kits. Classic troop and weapon options, but highly detailed and stands the test of time far better than some of the stuff that came just before it in 4th edition. What Drukhari have is, in my opinion, the bare minimum of what ought to be done to get older kits up to snuff.

That said, there were plastic kits that came out after Drukhari that have already been updated, such as the Chaos Cultists that were released in 6th ed, and now updated here in 9th. But, that's what happens when you don't give something a proper box for several editions.

As for 'could GW update all these?' absolutely. We could see all of them updated in a single edition. A sizeable update for Tyranids, another, smaller wave for Chaos and Eldar each, and a decent Drukhari update just to get some of that finecast out of there and we'd be 90% of the way there.

Where it gets tricky is redoing characters. Now that the cat is out of the bag on killing off Yarrick and Trazyn stealing away Creed, there's precedent for GW to take characters out of the setting and not update those models. We could see it happen to a lot of the characters that Dysartes listed out.

I also agree with Overread - my interpretation was that GW wanted to use finecast as a stop-gap to get metal out of their production range, and then to update those things over time into plastic. Heck, iirc, they wanted finecast to be gone by 2020. Now, obviously that hasn't happened, and here we are going on 3 years later and there's still finecast in the range, despite rotations, updates, and other things. Is it a priority? No, I don't think so. As was said, GW's priority is most certainly in creating NEW kits than refreshing old kits. They know full well that there are two situations where they make the most money:
1. The release of something new
2. The two weeks between preorder and release of a product

Everything after that is secondary in terms of profits.

 Sim-Life wrote:


I'm convinced Space Marine sales started to lull because GW were going absolutely full tilt into updating the range to the point where even hardcore Space Marine fans were getting sick of them and that's the only reason they've not had a release in a while. Chances are the only reason we've seen a gap for other stuff is because GW eased off due to dropping sales. They probably have a bunch of Marine resculpts ready to go for the next codex update.

Marine players had to learn real fast that their "updated" models were rather bad. Not many people are going to be buying gravis cpts, bunkers or overcosted versions of units they already have, which often are better. What marine players would have been more willing to buy be stuff like jump pack or bike mounted characters, a primaris version of venguard marines. A primaris predator which is just as good as the regular one or a worse version of a rhino, which as a model is an open topped skimmer, but in the rules it is not. Not very enticing to buy.

And some stuff was just unlucky, because of the delays. Gravis intercessors may have sold much better, if they came out sooner. Because by the time they were out, the only people buying them were those that really wanted the models.

What GW needs to do is outlaw the use of old models if they have newer current ones, that are more than 10% different in scale... The old 3E Stormtroopers seem quite a bit more compact and shorter than the Scions and Kasrkin, and thus are easier to hide behind terrain... I just had a game where an opponent was able to hide virtually his entire Tempestus force behind a series of short walls that the top half of the heads of regular Tempestus Scions would stick over...

Going by the spam across multiple threads, GW's scale creep is a real issue for you.

Maybe seek therapy?

 Slayer6 wrote:
What GW needs to do is outlaw the use of old models if they have newer current ones, that are more than 10% different in scale... The old 3E Stormtroopers seem quite a bit more compact and shorter than the Scions and Kasrkin, and thus are easier to hide behind terrain... I just had a game where an opponent was able to hide virtually his entire Tempestus force behind a series of short walls that the top half of the heads of regular Tempestus Scions would stick over...

Hmm. That idea sounds like a sure fire way to lose them customers....

As for your game? You sound like a salty scrub grasping at straws.

 Slayer6 wrote:
What GW needs to do is outlaw the use of old models if they have newer current ones, that are more than 10% different in scale... The old 3E Stormtroopers seem quite a bit more compact and shorter than the Scions and Kasrkin, and thus are easier to hide behind terrain... I just had a game where an opponent was able to hide virtually his entire Tempestus force behind a series of short walls that the top half of the heads of regular Tempestus Scions would stick over...

Uh sure agreed. As long as you personally pay replacement models for every gamer who needs to replace the models

Slayer6 wrote:What GW needs to do is outlaw the use of old models if they have newer current ones, that are more than 10% different in scale... The old 3E Stormtroopers seem quite a bit more compact and shorter than the Scions and Kasrkin, and thus are easier to hide behind terrain... I just had a game where an opponent was able to hide virtually his entire Tempestus force behind a series of short walls that the top half of the heads of regular Tempestus Scions would stick over...

Ya I'm going to have to call bull on that one...