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So I recently decided a chaos knight would be a great addition to my CSM army, but I know the rules for allies have changed a lot since they were introduced, are they still viable as allies? and if they are what single knight would be the better choice to add (I have a very melee heavey army)

They cost 3 CP to brig. That is the biggest problem.

Bringing 3 of the smaller knights seem to be the way to go.

 Niiai wrote:
They cost 3 CP to brig. That is the biggest problem.

Bringing 3 of the smaller knights seem to be the way to go.

yeah, the CP cost is pretty steep.

as far as mechanics, you can have one unit (either 1 big knight or 1 squadron of war dogs of a single type) and make it a dreadblade, then it becomes <agent of chaos> and as such doesn't turn off faction/subfaction bonuses


I find two of the war dogs to be the best option, stalkers with chaintalons and ranged of choice, give one a favor of the gods (undivided - warp-borne stalker) for forward deployment similar to how nurglings work.

it's also worth noting that an <agent of chaos> knight doesn't count against you for daemonic pact, so it's possible to do some very silly lists with CSM as the primary, a dreadblade unit, and 25% of the list as daemons. fluxmaster, horrors, exalted flamer and 6x flamers get you almost to your pact cap in a 2k, do with that information what you will

If you play disciples of belakor you dont pay 3CP for a chaos knight, because its from the same faction, when you play nephilim GT. You dont have to include any daemons, except belakor, but your CSM cant have any marks of chaos, and belakor must be your warlord.

 thepowerfulwill wrote:
So I recently decided a chaos knight would be a great addition to my CSM army, but I know the rules for allies have changed a lot since they were introduced, are they still viable as allies? and if they are what single knight would be the better choice to add (I have a very melee heavey army)

Melee heavy army could benefit from 3 shooty brigands with the worthy offerings fell bond. +1 to hit against MC, vehicles and characters and great for taking/keeping objectives in the back field.

 p5freak wrote:
If you play disciples of belakor you dont pay 3CP for a chaos knight, because its from the same faction, when you play nephilim GT. You dont have to include any daemons, except belakor, but your CSM cant have any marks of chaos, and belakor must be your warlord.

you also lose any legion specific traits, warlord traits, relics and stratagems. also no daemon engines.

don't get me wrong the AoR is fun to run sometimes, but it does have significant limitations that can be far worse than losing 3 cp

honestly I've had more success with that AoR by using it to run majority daemons and then shoring up the weaknesses daemons have (lack of cheap troops) with CSM cultists/traitor guard

 p5freak wrote:
If you play disciples of belakor you dont pay 3CP for a chaos knight, because its from the same faction, when you play nephilim GT. You dont have to include any daemons, except belakor, but your CSM cant have any marks of chaos, and belakor must be your warlord.

Not sure this is true. I have come across 3 TO's in the UK who have said this is not the way it works. Can you clarify why it works? I have been told that the Chaos Knights only share the faction keyword for the superfaction <CHOAS> which doesn't get around shared faction bonus keywords. If you mark a Chaos knight with a favor the codex does not give the knight the faction keyword only the keyword for triggering CK specific stratagems.

The list of benefits for the AoR says:
All units in your army (excluding UNALIGNED and BUILDING units) gain the DISCIPLES OF BE’LAKOR Faction keyword.

The Knight is a unit, it is in your army, so it gets the Faction keyword.

Belakor is your warlord, he is a unit, he is in your army, so he also gets the Faction keyword.

 nurgle86 wrote:

 p5freak wrote:
If you play disciples of belakor you dont pay 3CP for a chaos knight, because its from the same faction, when you play nephilim GT. You dont have to include any daemons, except belakor, but your CSM cant have any marks of chaos, and belakor must be your warlord.

Not sure this is true. I have come across 3 TO's in the UK who have said this is not the way it works. Can you clarify why it works? I have been told that the Chaos Knights only share the faction keyword for the superfaction <CHOAS> which doesn't get around shared faction bonus keywords. If you mark a Chaos knight with a favor the codex does not give the knight the faction keyword only the keyword for triggering CK specific stratagems.

its a very specific benefit line in the AoR.

you get to include a single house korvax unit in your army without breaking factions.

Best choice is probably shooty wardogs if you are already heavy on melee, and the worst choices are probably either the Desecrator (don't think you can take the relic gun it needs to be good while allied) or the Tyrant for being just too expensive.

If you want the knight to take centre stage though, a thermal cannon/missile launcher/claw Despoiler with both worthy offerings and the Slaanesh favour subjucator machine spirit might be fun. Hits high value targets on 2+, can advance and shoot, and if it kills a worthy target it unlocks the tasty advance and charge favoured trait early.

 nurgle86 wrote:

 p5freak wrote:
If you play disciples of belakor you dont pay 3CP for a chaos knight, because its from the same faction, when you play nephilim GT. You dont have to include any daemons, except belakor, but your CSM cant have any marks of chaos, and belakor must be your warlord.

Not sure this is true. I have come across 3 TO's in the UK who have said this is not the way it works. Can you clarify why it works? I have been told that the Chaos Knights only share the faction keyword for the superfaction <CHOAS> which doesn't get around shared faction bonus keywords. If you mark a Chaos knight with a favor the codex does not give the knight the faction keyword only the keyword for triggering CK specific stratagems.

It is very true. Sad that TOs have no clue.

BENEFITS
All units in your army (excluding UNALIGNED and BUILDING units) gain the DISCIPLES OF BE’LAKOR Faction keyword.

Your army can include up to one Super-heavy Auxiliary Detachment that contains one CHAOS KNIGHTS HOUSE KORVAX unit. That unit gains the AGENT OF CHAOS keyword. This Detachment still gains all the Detachment abilities available to HOUSE KORVAX units as listed in Codex: Chaos Knights, even though Super-heavy Auxiliary Detachments do not normally gain any Detachment abilities.

 Insularum wrote:
Best choice is probably shooty wardogs if you are already heavy on melee, and the worst choices are probably either the Desecrator (don't think you can take the relic gun it needs to be good while allied) or the Tyrant for being just too expensive.

If you want the knight to take centre stage though, a thermal cannon/missile launcher/claw Despoiler with both worthy offerings and the Slaanesh favour subjucator machine spirit might be fun. Hits high value targets on 2+, can advance and shoot, and if it kills a worthy target it unlocks the tasty advance and charge favoured trait early.

I do run slaanesh.. Could be fun. might just get a aboninant and magnetize it for flexibility.

The Abominant doesn’t have options.
It’s fixed loadout.

Unless the plan is to be able to switch between an Abominant and something else like a Desecrator, no idea if that is possible though.

I've been running triple Vextrix executioners with my daemons list which includes Abaddon and Belakor. I lose most faction rules and secondaries, but the sheer power of having that much long range firepower supporting a daemons list, whose traditional weakness is lack of ranged threats, more than makes up for it.

EightFoldPath wrote:
Unless the plan is to be able to switch between an Abominant and something else like a Desecrator, no idea if that is possible though.

I was disappointed to see that you either build a model with a tail or not. Beyond that? magnetize the arms and you're good to go.
but yeah, the Abominant box allows all the options for either an Abominant or a Desecrator - It has the Laser Destructor, a Power Fist and a Chainsword in addition to the options for the Abominant. If you want the other options, you need to get a warden kit. if you want to double up on the guns, you are going to need two.