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In the '90s and '00s, there was a relatively small number of books in which background was included, and it was often thin gruel in the later Codices. It was possible to know pretty much everything about the 40k background – and we could endlessly speculate on (then-unanswerable) little nuggets like the 'quiescent perils of the C'tan, lying beyond the Gates of Varl'.

Since the '10s and '20s, we've seen a boom in Black Library publishing, and the studio has put out lots of new lore in lots of separate books. I imagine there are a few people still keeping up with it, but reading through a lot of the topics here, I'm struck by the number of newer story beats or plot devices that I'm completely unaware of. Thought I'd start a 'catch-all' topic for you to talk about the thing that most interests you, to share the fun.

For example, in passing I've seen the existence of something called the Alpha Primus – apparently an attempt to make a new Primarch – and that the Tyranids have created a planet..!

To kick off, I thought the Kill Team: Into the Dark rulebook was full of lovely new snippets hinting at various perhaps-upcoming factions – and also went a long way to introducing some much-needed new mysteries, like the existence of the 'S'koran'igsthi' species.

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I don't know from which book it was, but in one of the Heresy novels there's mention of several 'Priest gangs' that still worship the remnants of old religions and have vicious gangfights aboard a space station above Terra. Not much more about them is being said, but i found that couple of throwaway lines strangely compelling.
   
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I liked The Purge fighting the Death Guard on Vigilus pretty funny. The Purge wants to serve Nurgle by killing every lifeform, The Death Guard wants to serve Nurgle by spreading deseases (so by spreading life in the form of Viruses etc.). A little Life of Brian moment there
   
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I liked that the fall of the Scythes of the Emperor got some expansion in The Great Work. Their close relationship with the people of their world becoming a key factor in their almost total destruction was really good.
   
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Not a nugget, but the new Votann lore.

It’s a solid addition to the game, and slotted in really nicely. And it genuinely feels like it’s always been part of the background.

I would compare it to the intro of Tau and Dark Eldar, but I think to do that would be unfair. Tau and Dark Eldar can’t help being released at a time where GW put codex background on the back burner.

   
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One that has me curious is from the first Arks of Omen book; one of the Arks is boarded by Blood Angel's but all they find is butchered CSM and stuff that 'looks like withered plant matter'. It is very specific about calling out the plant matter and even mentions it again later in the book.

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 NinthMusketeer wrote:
One that has me curious is from the first Arks of Omen book; one of the Arks is boarded by Blood Angel's but all they find is butchered CSM and stuff that 'looks like withered plant matter'. It is very specific about calling out the plant matter and even mentions it again later in the book.

Withered "plant" matter? Like, maybe, fungus?
   
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 NinthMusketeer wrote:
One that has me curious is from the first Arks of Omen book; one of the Arks is boarded by Blood Angel's but all they find is butchered CSM and stuff that 'looks like withered plant matter'. It is very specific about calling out the plant matter and even mentions it again later in the book.


You know, not at all saying that this is a hint towards any future faction, but a new xenos race that is plant-based would be a very interesting way to go and would definitely have quite a lot of leeway and space to expand. I suppose they can take inspiration/ideas from the Sylvaneth as well.
   
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 Gadzilla666 wrote:
 NinthMusketeer wrote:
One that has me curious is from the first Arks of Omen book; one of the Arks is boarded by Blood Angel's but all they find is butchered CSM and stuff that 'looks like withered plant matter'. It is very specific about calling out the plant matter and even mentions it again later in the book.

Withered "plant" matter? Like, maybe, fungus?


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Plant people, plant people.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2023/01/16 08:31:44


   
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Gungus confirmed.
   
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 Gadzilla666 wrote:
 NinthMusketeer wrote:
One that has me curious is from the first Arks of Omen book; one of the Arks is boarded by Blood Angel's but all they find is butchered CSM and stuff that 'looks like withered plant matter'. It is very specific about calling out the plant matter and even mentions it again later in the book.

Withered "plant" matter? Like, maybe, fungus?


It could be almost anything, they find a lot of other gak too, victims of bolter fire, 'sulphurous residue' and people that look like they'd been 'hewed by a great blade'.

Have a screenshot from Valrak:



Note that it says specifically that the stuff is 'biomechanical infestation' that 'looks like plant matter' - that hardly seems eldar-y to me, more like Tyranids or even some Dark Mechanicus stuff.
   
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Great idea for a thread, will be watching with interest! And warrior fungus - wow. What art is that from can I ask MDG?

I will be honest I had switched off following the Primaris background updates, won't go on about it here but think that was more to do with selling the new mini lines and then some lore written to justify it, rather than visa-versa. Yes, yes I know the game has always been like that, but there are moments when it feels more cack-handed and forced than others.

This does mean though that I've switched off and missed other bits which perhaps aren't a crude mallet falling upon existing fluff; the new Voltann background for starters, which I think is great and manages to achieve the balance of tying together the archived background and fits in neatly with modern 40k. You could say perhaps it is filling a void that should not have existed, and is the way with Dwarves, it rights a wrong!

Anyway, definitely interested to read other comments here.

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Tsagualsa wrote:
 Gadzilla666 wrote:
 NinthMusketeer wrote:
One that has me curious is from the first Arks of Omen book; one of the Arks is boarded by Blood Angel's but all they find is butchered CSM and stuff that 'looks like withered plant matter'. It is very specific about calling out the plant matter and even mentions it again later in the book.

Withered "plant" matter? Like, maybe, fungus?


It could be almost anything, they find a lot of other gak too, victims of bolter fire, 'sulphurous residue' and people that look like they'd been 'hewed by a great blade'.

Have a screenshot from Valrak:



Note that it says specifically that the stuff is 'biomechanical infestation' that 'looks like plant matter' - that hardly seems eldar-y to me, more like Tyranids or even some Dark Mechanicus stuff.


Biomechanical and that strikes me as Vashtorr’s doing.

The rest? Legion of the Damned, who are currently not covered.

   
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 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Tsagualsa wrote:
 Gadzilla666 wrote:
 NinthMusketeer wrote:
One that has me curious is from the first Arks of Omen book; one of the Arks is boarded by Blood Angel's but all they find is butchered CSM and stuff that 'looks like withered plant matter'. It is very specific about calling out the plant matter and even mentions it again later in the book.

Withered "plant" matter? Like, maybe, fungus?


It could be almost anything, they find a lot of other gak too, victims of bolter fire, 'sulphurous residue' and people that look like they'd been 'hewed by a great blade'.

Have a screenshot from Valrak:



Note that it says specifically that the stuff is 'biomechanical infestation' that 'looks like plant matter' - that hardly seems eldar-y to me, more like Tyranids or even some Dark Mechanicus stuff.


Biomechanical and that strikes me as Vashtorr’s doing.

The rest? Legion of the Damned, who are currently not covered.


Vashtorr is imho the likeliest explanation, as at that point in the story he hasn't really done anything other than doing his deals with Abaddon, and the imperial forces at large are not aware of him - it's a case of the reader knowing much more than the characters right now.

And i agree that the sulphur residue, no bodies of the attacking force and defenders being felled by bolters are the telltale sign of LotD involvement, they'll probably do their Deus Ex Machina routine further on in the story. Maybe they'll have a role in awakening the Lion, who knows.
   
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It is clearly evidence of the Gungus army and nothing anyone says will convince me otherwise. Praise be the Gungus.
   
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Tsagualsa wrote:
Maybe they'll have a role in awakening the Lion, who knows.


I'm not TOO surprised the Lion is waking up, but I was surprised Angron is next up for the Chaos Primarchs. I think they mentioned Angron once, and Lorgar a few times, making it sound like Lorgar was next.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2023/01/16 14:27:00


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Breton wrote:
Tsagualsa wrote:
Maybe they'll have a role in awakening the Lion, who knows.


I'm not TOO surprised the Lion is waking up, but I was surprised Angron is next up for the Chaos Primarchs. I think they mentioned Angron once, and Lorgar a few times, making it sound like Lorgar was next.


The 4 god-aligned Primarchs and their various cult forces being first was always pretty likely, it just makes sense economically a they have a substantial fanbase and a considerable fluff presence. Everything after that is much less clear, but Lorgar has been, until recently, famous for being the demon Primarch with the least interest in the material plane.
   
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I'm not sure the biomechanics and the plant matter are same-source.

I'm also not sure we're looking at Legion Of The Damned. We've got Bolter Rounds and "some great blade". That could be Jagati and his White Tiger Dao, it could be the Russ and either Mjalnar or Helwinter. It's probably not Corax with a lightning claw. It's probably not Lion with the Wolf Blade. The Lion with the Lion sword is even more unlikely. I wouldn't be too surprised to find out it was Angron either.

For a twist, it could have even been Abaddon the Despoiler with Drach'nyen and the plant life was some sort of magic mushroom attack that subverted the chaos inhabitants until Abaddon was forced to end the threat.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Tsagualsa wrote:
but Lorgar has been, until recently, famous for being the demon Primarch with the least interest in the material plane.


And most famous with a case of hate for the only currently available Loyalist Primarch. Though that also feeds into making him less likely, I get the impression they're deliberately working to cross up the traditional rivalries. I'm not sure the Lion even has one anymore with Kurze's death. Well, aside from Guilliman and Russ.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2023/01/16 14:51:45


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I wish they would leave the loyalist Primarchs back in 30k-era. It harms the 'failure of everything' narrative to have these heroes back and kicking arse within the 40k universe.

Having the Traitor Primarchs I think is fine, as it shows what depths they have fallen to. Of those glory days, only the evil and twisted remain, and the heroes of the Imperium are no match for them.

Having said this, I fully expect a Mcfarlane toy-sized emperor miniature to be released within the next few years.

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 Pacific wrote:
I wish they would leave the loyalist Primarchs back in 30k-era. It harms the 'failure of everything' narrative to have these heroes back and kicking arse within the 40k universe.

Having the Traitor Primarchs I think is fine, as it shows what depths they have fallen to. Of those glory days, only the evil and twisted remain, and the heroes of the Imperium are no match for them.

Having said this, I fully expect a Mcfarlane toy-sized emperor miniature to be released within the next few years.


If they bring back one, they have to bring back both. It irritates me enough from a believability standpoint that there's 2 Traitor Primarchs with Legions, and only 1 Loyalist with a Chapter. That's unsustainable, especially with a giant wall down the middle of the Imperium. And I'm not sure I agree with the "harms the failure of everything" - The despair Guilliman has at the dystopian state of the current Imperium just enhances it. He's practically narrating it.

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 Pacific wrote:
I wish they would leave the loyalist Primarchs back in 30k-era. It harms the 'failure of everything' narrative to have these heroes back and kicking arse within the 40k universe.

Having the Traitor Primarchs I think is fine, as it shows what depths they have fallen to. Of those glory days, only the evil and twisted remain, and the heroes of the Imperium are no match for them.

Having said this, I fully expect a Mcfarlane toy-sized emperor miniature to be released within the next few years.


I disagree. The return of Guilliman brought a glimmer of hope. Yet it’s clear despite his presence and many, many victories, defeat has only been postponed, not avoided. Adding The Lion and/or any of the others still doesn’t stop the slow decline, because The Imperium is just too messed up and stuck in its ways.

Caution has turned into inaction. Careful preparation has become ritual. Recognition of complexity has become superstition.

Guilliman and his Brothers can of course see past that. But, their mighty hands are tied by the sheer ennui that has afflicted The Imperium since the Purging.

To me the greatest irony is that it was Guilliman’s Own Reforms (Chapters, separation of fleet and army and so on) which are now the mightiest shackle in those bindings, at a time when a single commander leading a New Crusade, with recruitment and provision solely at said commander’s discretion is kind of exactly what The Imperium needs right now.

Whilst not exactly a Win Button, and definitely far harder than it’s about to sound? If Guilliman had the option to simply lead the new Primaris Marines in a single fleet, driven straight at Abaddon’s Black heart, and on to ever decreasing warbands? Perhaps The Imperium could’ve been saved. A truly shattering blow at what passes for Central Command of Chaos Forces. The mastermind removed entirely from the board, his vassals now left to their own discretion, infighting and bickering. Bottleneck those Chaos forces in Imperium Nihilus whilst he assembled a greater than even Legion Strength force, then pushing on into it.

   
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That's beautifully written, but I don't agree with any of it I'm afraid mate.

Primarchs coming back from the dead is the exact antithesis of what the 40k universe was (I use past tense purposefully) about. There is no place for heroes, because the very greatest of them died ten thousand years ago as part of the Great Betrayal. That was mankind's chance at a future of hope and peace, but we blew it. Now all we are left with is a slow, ten-thousand year slide into oblivion. And that's what makes the Imperium still fighting so poignant; the men and women fighting now against the gathering horrors a poor reflection (both themselves and their equipment) of those who came before them, but still they fight. They are going to lose; like that cover of the original Rogue Trader rulebook, every marine in that piece of artwork is about to die. But still they fight, and there is a power in that.

This is the 40k Universe I grew up with. It's not the 40k Universe as it exists now, where those elements of satire and illustration of futility seem to have been gradually pushed to one side, until now you have to dig to find it (or, as I did until recently, allow those previous illustrations to colour how you see the current universe). But Super Marines (actual improvements on what the Emperor, that god-like being, had created?) that are immune to Chaos? The Primarchs of old coming back via a plot device? Nah. I'm not going to say it has changed for the worse, because that's deeply subjective and there is every chance someone reading this will disagree with my sentiments, enjoy the sights of marines stood in victory with pennants fluttering. But, I think it's a fair statement to say that the overall atmosphere and imagery surrounding the fantasy universe has changed, or perhaps evolved would be a better term.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2023/01/16 17:32:48


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 Pacific wrote:
Great idea for a thread, will be watching with interest! And warrior fungus - wow. What art is that from can I ask MDG?


It's part of the xenos section of the 9th ed rulebook and drawn by Lewis Jones.

Here's the full pic.
Spoiler:

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2023/01/16 17:44:49



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I’m always put in mind of a short story (as in WD filler, if memory serves) where an Imperial Guard battle line is about to be overrun by a Tyranid invasion.

They’re just about holding, but things are looking grim as for every wave thrown back, another is already approaching.

Their CO points to streaks in the sky, explaining that’s more of those things being deposited planetside, and they’re coming for them. There’s no longer the option of retreat, only the chance to sell their lives as dearly as possible and make every single Xenos pay for every inch taken.

The Guardsmen redouble their efforts, fighting like heroes.

Except….the streaks were Drop Pods, carrying a company of Astartes, who upon arrival more than turn the tide. The Guard survive, and when questioned why he lied? The CO explains that by removing hope of survival, he ensured the line held, because men with nothing left to lose will sell their lives dearly.

Guilliman’s return brings worse than actual hope. It brings false hope. That this one Hero Of Antiquity, who did all these wonderful things, somehow makes a blind bit of difference to the wider picture.

Yet for every planet he and his ride to the rescue of, how many are sending Astropathic pleas into the void, certain that if only Guilliman comes they’ll be saved? He can’t be everywhere at once. Nor can his crusade fleets. Yet some of those worlds will survive their trials. And I’m certain resentment that no golden hero on fiery wings arrived will grow.

   
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 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Guilliman’s return brings worse than actual hope. It brings false hope.

It is still better than no hope. With the mentioned story, this is like the CO admitting that the Astartes are coming to save them when the streaks are tectonic torpedoes. A white lie that makes the guardsmen die with a 'yay' rather than a 'fugg', but one can argue that it is actually a nice thing to do.

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 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
 Pacific wrote:
I wish they would leave the loyalist Primarchs back in 30k-era. It harms the 'failure of everything' narrative to have these heroes back and kicking arse within the 40k universe.

Having the Traitor Primarchs I think is fine, as it shows what depths they have fallen to. Of those glory days, only the evil and twisted remain, and the heroes of the Imperium are no match for them.

Having said this, I fully expect a Mcfarlane toy-sized emperor miniature to be released within the next few years.


I disagree. The return of Guilliman brought a glimmer of hope.
Hope to the Guardsman standing on the wall, or the serf living on some backwater maybe, but not to Guilliman himself. Even if he wins, he still loses as he looks at the Ecclesiarchy.

Yet it’s clear despite his presence and many, many victories, defeat has only been postponed, not avoided. Adding The Lion and/or any of the others still doesn’t stop the slow decline, because The Imperium is just too messed up and stuck in its ways.

Caution has turned into inaction. Careful preparation has become ritual. Recognition of complexity has become superstition.

Guilliman and his Brothers can of course see past that. But, their mighty hands are tied by the sheer ennui that has afflicted The Imperium since the Purging.
That's kind of my point. That's how he's narrating the despair.

To me the greatest irony is that it was Guilliman’s Own Reforms (Chapters, separation of fleet and army and so on) which are now the mightiest shackle in those bindings, at a time when a single commander leading a New Crusade, with recruitment and provision solely at said commander’s discretion is kind of exactly what The Imperium needs right now.

Whilst not exactly a Win Button, and definitely far harder than it’s about to sound? If Guilliman had the option to simply lead the new Primaris Marines in a single fleet, driven straight at Abaddon’s Black heart, and on to ever decreasing warbands? Perhaps The Imperium could’ve been saved. A truly shattering blow at what passes for Central Command of Chaos Forces. The mastermind removed entirely from the board, his vassals now left to their own discretion, infighting and bickering. Bottleneck those Chaos forces in Imperium Nihilus whilst he assembled a greater than even Legion Strength force, then pushing on into it.

Its not Abaddon. Its Magnus and Morty. Soon to be Angron. He's been lucky the plot armor hasn't allowed for two coordinating and teaming up. He can't be in two places at once, and he can't take on both of them at once. Even if/when the Imperium gets the Lion back, the Ruinous powers will get Angron. And they'll have to deal with Robute and Lion not getting along at all. Remember the last time those two talked, it was pretty much Robute kicking the Lion off of Ultramar because they already tried to share power and could only agree on one thing: Who should be in charge? Not You. They had Sanguinius to take charge and mediate. Now if they have a third Loyalist Primarch ready to come out - and I think they should then they've got a triumvirate again, with a tie-breaker vote. Vulkan or Khan would be the mediator if they showed up - and Vulkan is even fairly similar to Sanguinius. If Russ shows up- which is more likely economically then it's going to be hysterical as the mediator revolves between the three. Russ and Lion may dislike each other even more than Robute and Lion, making Guilliman the mediator. Until he's too cautious and the two impetuous ones overrule him. To bring this around full circle, the Lion's return could actually make things worse until we get a third, but even then they won't have the juice to really reform things - especially not while their three brothers are knocking on the gate. Leaving the status quo dystopian and dysfunctional reality for all.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2023/01/16 20:23:31


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I'm with you Pacific, Loyalist Primarchs returning doesnt fit the decent into degradation and ignorance which made the setting so cool.

However, I'm not here just to complain. But also to highlight how cool it is getting some update and resolution on the Octarius War.

The clash of all consuming Tyranids and the war loving Orks had always caught my attention and we got two books about it!
I thought it would always get ignored being a Xenos war, but the writers managed to insert the Imperium in there to create a reason to write about it XD

Although of course the wrong side won, probably a dodgy ref as usual :p

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2023/01/16 22:59:41


 
   
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*shrug* I felt that the doom-and-gloom was overplayed. Yes it was there, but in many works it felt like that theme was smothering other themes of similar import. I feel that tearing the galaxy in half, literally, outweighs the return of one or even several loyalist primarchs. I think Abbadon's competence really shows in his politics of being able to balance countless parties of super-powered psychopaths and literal gods both with and against each other.

And I think that the appeal of grimdark as a fictional setting is lessened the more dystopian the real world gets.

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There’s also the “if only the heroes of old would return, all would be well” only half happening.

Guilliman returned. And…nothing really changed. He didn’t prevent the Fall of Cadia, the opening of the rift, nor managed to finally slay Abaddon.

At absolute best, all he’s managed is to provide something close to a Fighting Chance.

   
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All the heroes could return and it would still be saturday cartoon stand off. GW can't let setting change so they keep it in status quo. "I'll get you next time!" level stories.

Players wanted to turn setting to advancing story line so GW gave them appearance of it while using saturday cartoon style to maintain status quo as needed.

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