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Made in us
Been Around the Block





United Kingdom

So with the arks of Omens Battle Brother/Allied Detachment weirdness, and how you can add an extra patrol of Tempestus (MT) to an Astra Militarum (AM) detachment, which in turn can be made up of MT units, as at no point does it stop you from being an "Astra Militarum Detachment"
Giving you access to 15 troop slot's worth of Scion's
you can guess where this is going

n.b. the exact wording from the codex:
"If every unit in an Astra Militarum Detachment has the Militarum Tempestus, Officio Prefectus and/or Militarum Auxillia keywords, Tempestus Scions units in that detachment have the Troops Battlefield Role, instead of Elites"

Bonus rule, Castellans can have Ogryn Bodyguards. (no other attache, just the bodyguard)
That in turn gives the castellan the Militarum Auxillia keyword, so he can join in the fun as part of the AoO detachment (cant fit in the patrol though, as that is limited to Militarum Tempestus keyword). You can also select regimental doctrines for him to have, as he is the only one using it. So the re-roll 1's to hit aura is here to stay for the wombo combo

The list:-
AoO Detachment:-

Castellan, Bolt Pistol, Power sword
Ogryn Bodyguard, Brute Shield, Ripper gun, Bullgryn Plate

Tempestus Command Squad, (Warlord)
Null Rod, WT:- Drill Commander
Ogryn Bodyguard, Brute Shield, Ripper gun, Bullgryn Plate
Medic
Regimental Banner Relic:- Finial of Nemrodesh
Master Vox
Hot-shot volley

Tempestus Command Squad,
Null Rod,Commanders Armoury Relic:-Laurels of Command, Officer Cadre WT:- Precision Targeting
Ogryn Bodyguard, Brute Shield, Ripper gun, Bullgryn Plate
Medic
Regimental Banner
Master Vox
Hot-shot volley

11x Scion squads with the following:
Plasma Pistol + Power Sword Sergeant
Vox
2 Hot shot volley
2 plasma
4 regular scions

One squad of 5 scions
Plasma Pistol + Power Sword Sergeant
Vox
1 Hot shot volley
1 plasma
1 regular scion

Patrol Detachment:-
Tempestus Command Squad,
Null Rod,Commanders Armoury Relic:-Refractor Field Generator, Officer Cadre WT:- Uncompromising Prosecution
Ogryn Bodyguard, Brute Shield, Ripper gun, Bullgryn Plate
Medic
Regimental Banner
Master Vox
Hot-shot volley

Three squads of 5 scions
Plasma Pistol + Power Sword Sergeant
Vox
1 Hot shot volley
1 plasma
1 regular scion

1995

so in total, 145 scion bodies. 4 Ogryn Bodyguards 1 castellan.
4 small squads if you need to deepstrike for Retrieve Battlefield Data or leave on a backfield objective out of line of sight
5 pts leftover for a random power fist or Ogryn Slabshield if you think they are better than brute shields, and potential to recover points from the bullgryn plate again for preference.
Or just remove Ogryn's from the commands squads if you think their survivability without them is high enough.
yay power swords everywhere!

All the CP used to get the Tempestus goodies.
The "bull banner" from finial, plus warlord traits plus refractor field generator giving out nice 6" bubble of buffs to a big scions blob.
Laurels of command to issue either Take Cover, or Remain Vigilant that one time you really need it in your opponents turn

Okay you are missing any real decent melee punch, there's a lot of toughness 3 units, and a lot of strength 3 shooting, but at least with take aim orders everywhere, things are hitting on 2's (re-rolling 1's near castellan, and re-rolling 1's to wound near flags) and at AP-3 (Max range Rapid fire and Ignore modifiers if near Warlord command squad, ignoring cover if near 2nd command squad, AP-4 if at 1/2 range if near 3rd Command squad)

And with ogryn bodyguards and medic's your command squads are sticking around

There could also be some fine tuning with the Voxcasters, as they are nerfed into only having hot-shot laspistol's now, so for the squads you will always have bubble wrapping the command squads (and so always within 6" for orders/inflexible command) it might be worth dropping the vox in favour of another hot-shot lasgun.

   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut






You can't put a castellen in a Scion detachment even with a bodyguard. The bodyguard has the keyword not the unit.
   
Made in us
Been Around the Block





United Kingdom

It looks to be open to the following interpretation currently

as written in the codex:-
"any bodyguard models on your army roster must be added to friendly infantry officer units"

So i read that, as the officer and bodyguard become one unit, while the models have different keywords. the unit is made up of a mix of keywords.
much like say Grimaldus and his servitors, or deathwatch kill team or Dark Apostle and his disciples.

And as the wording for including it in the detachment is:- "If every unit..." and not "if every model"

I do believe it works.
If you have any faq answers or balance notes where a similar situation is explained differently. do let me know.

   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut






By that reckoning I could put a full command squad in there, attach a bodyguard and do the same thing.

The codex states that the bodyguard gains the keyword, it doesn't say that this keyword is given to the unit or that the unit as a whole is treated as having the keyword. The examples you gave are already full units, nothing is attached to them and thus they all share the keyword. This is not the same as attaching something.
   
Made in us
Been Around the Block





United Kingdom

Why yes, you could put an ogryn in a cadian or platoon command squad and add them in that way. i dont know what benefit they bring you would want, but i would say its feasible.

As for "the codex states that the bodyguard gains the keyword" what are you referring too? the ogryn bodyguard doesnt gain any keywords as far as i can see. They just have a set of keywords that includes

"Imperium, Astra militarum, Infantry, Militarum Auxilla, Abhuman, Bodyguard"

They havent gained anything. Please quote and reference page number so i can see what you refer too.

And the bodyguard is not being "attached" you are "adding it to the unit"

Attaching and Adding are different things.
Much like how a Model and a Unit is a different thing.

as for them already being "full units" yeah a Deathwatch kill team is not a full unit, you add in marines in different armour variants, and that unit gains the relevant keyword. they dont start out with the biker keywords if they dont have biker mounted marines. You add them in. And guess what, a mixed squad gains access to different strategems and abilities thanks to those added keywords. So there is precedent for units to add models with different keywords, and for the unit to benefit from it.


   
Made in gb
Fresh-Faced New User




I have a feeling the answer is no but I haven't got my hands on a codex yet to check, but can Ursula take an Ogryn body guard?

+1 strength takes hot shots, volleys and plasma over important break points for wounding marines and T8 models which would add alot to this army.
   
Made in gb
Rookie Pilot





sorry no body guard for Ursula. "bodyguard models on your army roster must be added to friendly infantry officer units (excluding named characters)"

4th company 3000pts
3rd Navy drop Command 3000pts air cavalry
117th tank company 5500pts
2000pts 
   
Made in gb
Fresh-Faced New User




Ah cheers for the heads up, that's a shame but atheist its still possible to work round with a separate detachment.
   
Made in fr
Perfect Shot Ultramarine Predator Pilot




 LynxSarnage wrote:
The codex states that the bodyguard gains the keyword, it doesn't say that this keyword is given to the unit or that the unit as a whole is treated as having the keyword.


It doesn't need to say so in the codex. The core rules already state that a unit has all of the keywords that its individual models have.

Some units can include models that have different keywords. While a unit has models with different keywords, it is considered to have all the keywords of all of its models, and so is affected by any rule that applies to units with any of those keywords.

A command squad with an attached bodyguard ogryn is a MILITARUM AUXILIA unit because at least one model in that unit has the keyword. Call it abusing RAW instead of RAI if you like but RAW it is legal.
   
 
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