Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Do you like relics that just add a couple of extra stats to a weapon or give you access to a generic but powerful ability (such as teleportation)? Do you think Relics are stupid and should be removed? Do you think Chapter Tactics, Combat Doctrines and Super Doctrines are making the game much more enjoyable for you? I would like to see Relics become more than weapons with an extra +1 to S, AP and/or D and I would like the game to be easier to play by removing bloat. I suggest removing all Chapter Tactics, Combat Doctrines and Super Doctrines from the game and reworking relics to something like what I will list below. The format has not been cleaned up because I am writing these down elsewhere and this is just an alpha version of the concept so bolding and italicising would be a waste of my time, if you find reference to sub-factions or other mistakes please let me know. Sub-faction relics have been removed to give more options, sub-faction identity should be established by unique characters and Stratagems in my opinion. Design goals are:
*Each relic should be worth 20-30 points.
*Each relic should help give the faction identity.
*Each relic should feel unique within the faction.
*Each faction should have 8+ Relics.

Adepta Sororitas

Adeptus Mechanicus

Drukhari

Necrons

Chaos Space Marines

Thousand Sons

Bloat is turning into a cliche now.

Opposing Faction specifics (i.e. Hatred:Orks) or your CHAOS or PSYKER stuff has traditionally been bad.

Breton wrote:
Bloat is turning into a cliche now.

Opposing Faction specifics (i.e. Hatred:Orks) or your CHAOS or PSYKER stuff has traditionally been bad.

What do you mean? Do you think hating on bloat turning into a cliche?

Do you think the Adepta Sororitas are worth less than 20 pts on average? The old Astra Militarum anti-Chaos Stratagem was really strong from what I remember. I don't think it's a balance problem because the relics do something against Necrons (even if it's not worth 20 pts on its own) and at the end of the day at most we're talking about 3 Relics not providing full value or providing maybe slightly more than full value. I think if all of the relics didn't have something for anti-Chaos you might end up picking one that didn't have it and avoid the thematic choice that is meant to highlight the Adepta Sororitas role as the henchies for the Ordo Hereticus (which also have the Chaos/Psyker hate. I am planning on doing the same for Grey Knights and Deathwatch. I also considered doing the same for the relics of other factions, like an anti-SW relic for TS but I am not sure how it should work and for Thousand Sons I focussed on the cults theme.

I'd love to get some more detailed feedback from you, have I covered one of your factions yet? I was planning on doing Daemons next but if you'd be willing to check the rules out I write for one of your factions I will change my workflow.

I've been for genericizing a lot of Marine relics for the differing Chapters to share. As well, I'm of the belief that "your dude" should be able to get to thr same level of power as a named Character.

For that, I propose that Characters should get access to the Special Issue wargear as a "free" upgrade, and other relics afterwards would cost a CP/points.

Why do all the CSM relics suck?

Edit: Nevermind, a lot of these are... Really meh. Not just the CSM ones.

There's some interesting things (T10 if you didn't move is cool, for instance) but a lot of it is bland.

 JNAProductions wrote:
Why do all the CSM relics suck?

Edit: Nevermind, a lot of these are... Really meh. Not just the CSM ones.

There's some interesting things (T10 if you didn't move is cool, for instance) but a lot of it is bland.

Thank you for the reality check, I hope you'll check out the thread in a couple of weeks again when I get the time to increase the power level of the relics and hopefully make them more fun.

 vict0988 wrote:
Do you like relics that just add a couple of extra stats to a weapon or give you access to a generic but powerful ability (such as teleportation)?

I like the latter but usually not the former. I'm a fan of options that change how armies/units play but am less fond of relics that are just extra killy versions of other wargear.

Do you think Relics are stupid and should be removed?

Ish. The idea of wargear that is rare enough you only have limited access to it is fine. However, I feel like it would be better to charge points for them rather than trying to make all relics equally valuable. Trying to make them equally valuable kind of limits your design space by forcing you to make all relics X amount of useful. (Or alternatively just results in some relics being straight up better than others.) I could see introducing a system where relics cost points and you're only allowed to take X number of wargear marked with the "relic" tag in a given army.

Do you think Chapter Tactics, Combat Doctrines and Super Doctrines are making the game much more enjoyable for you? I would like to see Relics become more than weapons with an extra +1 to S, AP and/or D and I would like the game to be easier to play by removing bloat. I suggest removing all Chapter Tactics, Combat Doctrines and Super Doctrines from the game and reworking relics to something like what I will list below.

Another partial agreement from me. Not a fan of relics that are just extra killy, and I agree that having so many layers of buffs makes the game feel a bit bloated. That said, I do see value in giving an army some kind of mechanic based on its lore/play style . My approach would probably be to scrap chapter tactics, doctrines, and super doctrines and instead let players pick from a list of optional mechanics for their army. With the goal being to have such mechancis emphasize making the army play differently rather than just making it more powerful. Basically, replace all the bonuses that give your army a raw power boost with fluffy mechanics that take up about as much space as a doctrine equivalent and encourage you to pilot your army in a different way.

For the specific relics, I'll focus on the Drukhari ones as I feel more qualified to speak to those than the others.

Drukhari[spoiler]
PARASITE’S KISS

Model equipped with a splinter pistol only. Change the AP characteristic of the bearer's splinter pistol to -2 and it's Damage characteristic to 2. Once per turn when the bearer destroys an enemy model it regains 1 wound lost earlier in the battle.

Fluffy, but not super useful. Drukhari HQs are (unfortunately) pretty much all beatsticks right now. They ride in a boat until the turn they charge something, at which point they're either exposed enough to die on the following turn or safe enough to charge the next thing. So for the healing aspect of this pistol to be useful, something would have to hurt them but not kill them (somewhat unlikely but not unheard of), and then they'd have to kill an enemy model on the following drukhari turn (as you have it now, the to-wound roll is a coin flip, so less than 50% chance of that happening), and then the next time a unit hurts them, it has to do some damage but not enough to kill the character (again). And if your goal is to charge 20-30 points for this, it means you're planning to charge more than the cost of a blast pistol.

SOULHELM

Each time the bearer would lose a wound as the result of a mortal wound, roll one D6; on a 5+ that wound is not lost. If a PSYKER controlled by your opponent suffers Perils of the Warp add 3 to rolls for the bearer to ignore mortal wounds in your opponent's Psychic phase until the end of the game.

This one suffers from being passive and situational in multiple ways. It's a defensive effect that only protects one unit in your army. It only protects those units from mortal wounds. It only does a particularly good job of protecting that unit from mortal wounds if your opponent suffers Perils', which you have no control over. That's a lot of hoops to jump through to get any benefit out of a piece of wargear. If I have to choose between spending 20 points on this thing vs buying more wargear for my sybarites or vehicles, I'm going with the cheaper, less situational options.

I feel like the concept of an anti-psyker helmet is done better and more fluffily by the current official Helm of Spite. (The wearer can deny a power once per psychic phase and causes perils when he succeeds.) It's something you get to actively use (I've "sniped" out enemy psykers by waiting for the wounded one to cast a power), it feels like something that would exist in anti-psyker Commorragh, and adding the sting of Perils on top of shutting down a psychic power feels very much in the spirit of the faction.

THE ANIMUS VITAE

Once per game in the Shooting phase the bearer can use The Animus Vitae to deal D3 mortal wounds to the closest visible enemy unit within 6" of the bearer (D3+3 mortal wounds if the unit contains 11+ models). Friendly DRUKHARI units gain the following ability until the end of the turn when the The Animus Vitae is used: ‘Eager to Flay: This unit is eligible to declare a charge in a turn in which it Advanced.’

This one feels awkward to use and also highlights how wonky the faction gets when it loses access to the Power From Pain rules. The entire drukhari army is fast enough to reliably be in melee on turn 2 if they really want to be. The main use of advance + charge in the current rules is for long-bomb charges against vulnerable targets with things like reaver jetbikes. But it seems weird that your high-speed motorcycles can only make those high-speed charges if the succubus happens to be throwing a little grenade thingy at an enemy that she probably could have charged without the advance + charge bonus. And like, those jetbikes probably aren't even charging the same thing you threw the animus vitae at; they're probably going after something further in the back or to the sides to disrupt my opponent's shooting.

So it's reasonably useful, but the fluff feels wrong. And also draws attention to how weird it feels for reavers to not have baked-in advance+charge.

THE HELM OF SPITE

Each time an attack is made that targets the bearer, subtract 1 from that attacks hit roll. Inflict 1 mortal wound on the attacking unit when a unit makes an unmodified hit roll of 1 against the bearer with a Melee attack.

This is fluffy. Very Suit of HIdden Knives. I like it for the same reason I like the Cursed Blade cult's "deal mortla wounds on an invul save of 6." rule. But that said, I'd rather have that Cursed Blade rule army-wide than this rule on a single character. Consider clarifying that the mortal wound is dealt after the unit finishes resolving its attacks. Otherwise, your enemy units will have to slow roll their attacks . Also, it seems like a weird choice to make the Helm of Spite *not* be a psychic defense option and then to create a brand new helmet that *is* a psychic defense option?

THE NIGHTMARE DOLL

HAEMONCULUS model only. The bearer gains a 4+ invulnerable save when an enemy unit within 6" fails a Morale test.

Tying a rule to a failed Morale test is fluffy, though I'm not sure it's fluffier than having the doll horribly mutilated as it takes damage for you as reflected in official versions of the rule. This is another one that I'd never take because it's too passive and too specific. You have close and personal with the enemy (so close that you're probably charging them thus giving them a chance to hurt you), and then you have to avoid killing a nearby enemy unit, but you also have to hurt it enough for it to fail a morale test (assuming they don't use one of a million rules to auto-pass that test), and then your reward for all that is a 4+ invuln on a kind of squishy character you've already probably subjected to melee.

THE TRIPTYCH WHIP

SUCCUBUS model equipped with an agoniser only. The bearer's agoniser gains Poisoned Weapon (2+). Each time the bearer makes a consolidation move after destroying at least one model in that phase, it can move an additional 3", and it does not have to finish this move closer to the closest enemy model.

Kind of a weird one. This all sounds perfectly useful, but it seems like you've replaced one damage buff (the extra attacks) with another (the poison 2+), and then tossed two (?) other succubus upgrade options into the mix for good measure. And I'm not sure what you're trying to represent here. How is a whip making the succubus move faster and also potentially letting her move away from the enemy? Is it like a Spider Man web-slinging maneuver?

WRIT OF THE LIVING MUSE

When the bearer destroys an enemy unit the bearer gains the following ability: ‘Writ of the Living Muse (Aura): Friendly DRUKHARI units within 6" of the bearer automatically pass Morale tests. Friendly DRUKHARI models within 6" of the bearer that have characteristics that can change as they suffers damage, are considered to have double the number of wounds remaining for the purposes of determining what those characteristics are.’

I think I like the *spirit* of this one, but I'm not sure about the execution. Gaining a buff aura that kicks in after you've had the bearer kill something is neat and feels appropriate for the faction. (See: soul traps, how the Animus Vitae used to work, Pain Tokens, etc.). However, drukhari don't normally have to worry all that much about morale tests. They're generally run as an MSU army, so you're usually looking at a casualty penalty of -4 or less during Morale tests. Sometimes you see huge warrior blobs deepstriking in for the lulz, but that's somewhat uncommon. I guess this could be useful if you have an archon palling around with a big squad of incubi, but that feels rather specific.

Maybe it's more useful for covens or cults who tend to have their infantry spend more time outside of their boats. But then it feels weird as the Writ' is traditionally a Kabal relic.

SOUL-SEEKER

Model equipped with a splinter pistol only. Each time you select a target for the bearer's splinter pistol, you can ignore the Look Out, Sir rule. After deployment, but before the first battle round begins, choose a unit in your opponent’s army. Change the Damage characteristic of the bearer's splinter pistol to 6 against the chosen unit. When the chosen unit is destroy you gain 1CP.

Don't hate it, but don't like it as much as the official version from the previous codex. There, it ignored both LoSir and Line of Sight and had moderately good range, AP, and Damage. It was one of the only ways to build a shooty HQ option, and it was great for hunting out the odd support character or unit's hiding on objectives behind walls. So it was a nerve-wracking weapon that could change up how your second archon played and was useful throughout the game; not just until you took out one priority target.

Having an "Eff that guy specifically," pistol seems pretty appropriate for the faction too though. Then again, a splinter pistol with no other buffs to its AP, Range, or to-wound rolls is going to have a hard time landing a good hit on something like a marine captain. And blast pistols exist. So something like a blast pistol probably does this thing's just roughly as well while being much more flexible.

THE PHIAL BOUQUET

Each time the bearer piles in choose an option from the Combat Drugs table, the bearer gains that ability until the end of the game. This effect can be one that the bearer is already affected by and is cumulative. If you choose Adrenalight and the bearer made a charge move or performed a Heroic Intervention this turn the additional attack will apply immediately.

Seems slightly book-keepy. I don't hate it, but I'd rather see it work like the 3rd edition combat drug dispensers: Pick between 0 and 6 drugs from the combat drug table. Benefit from all the selected drugs until the end of the turn. At the end of the turn, roll a d6 for each drug you're benefitting from. Lose a Wound for each duplicate result. So you can turn yourself into the perfect melee monster for the job, but you can overdose if you tempt fate. To me, that's fluffier, and it involves less bookkeeping.

THE BLOOD GLAIVE

Model equipped with an archite glaive only. At the end of the Fight phase, if the bearer destroyed an enemy model this phase, it can fight again.

This one is probably fine. Fits the high-energy feel of the faction. Obviously it could be a pain if succubae ever find themselves lethal enough to be a problem, but this seems like it could work.

THE FLENSING BLADE

Model equipped with Haemonculus tools only. Increase the Damage characteristic of the bearer's Haemonculus tools to 3. Increase the bearer's Toughness by 1 each time the bearer destroys a Character unit.

Suffers from being too situational. Haemonculi are the least killy of the HQ options. The extra AP helps with that, but you still have to kill one or more enemy characters and then be exposed to further incoming attacks (with semi-specific strength values) to benefit from this. And you still probably won't be as durable as Drazhar or even a Succubus (given that removing PFP and coven obsessions lowers the haemonculus's defense a bit.)

SPIRIT-STING

Haemonculus with stinger pistol only. Change the Type of the bearer's stinger pistol to Pistol 3. When a unit is hit by the bearer's stinger pistol its worst fears manifest. Subtract 1 from the Leadership characteristic of models in that unit, and subtract 1 from Combat Attrition tests made for that unit until the end of the turn.

I think I like this one. Combos well with other morale-targeting effects. Doesn't seem too scary on its own. It does feel like a half-step backwards if you're getting rid of Leadership debuff aura coven obsession.

Overall, I like what I think you're going for, but I don't think I'd take most of these. Your stated goals are:

*Each relic should be worth 20-30 points.
*Each relic should help give the faction identity.
*Each relic should feel unique within the faction.

When I think of all the whacky drukhari wargear we've lost over the years (or had converted into strategems) that gave the faction identity and avoided being just another special sword, I think of:

* Soul traps and Kruellagh's wrist stingers; things that let us power up as we killed things in melee.
* The aforementioned drug dispensers.
* The old webway portal generator that you basically spent an action to deploy, and then your units could arrive from reserves through it.
* The clone field!
* The mind phase gauntlet; it wasn't actually a *good* choice, but being able to take an enemy with bad Ld out of the fight was interesting.
* The 3rd edition Crucible of Malediction where you basically Raiders of the Lost Ark'd one enemy psyker after another until the ghosts ran out of steam.

 vict0988 wrote:

Breton wrote:
Bloat is turning into a cliche now.

Opposing Faction specifics (i.e. Hatred:Orks) or your CHAOS or PSYKER stuff has traditionally been bad.

What do you mean? Do you think hating on bloat turning into a cliche?

Yeah, when bloat is codeword for Marines.

Do you think the Adepta Sororitas are worth less than 20 pts on average? The old Astra Militarum anti-Chaos Stratagem was really strong from what I remember.

No, as I said I think "toys" that don't work for/against every faction have traditionally been bad. Hatred and the Fallen for example. Most of the time other armies have to take The Fallen just in case they run into a Dark Angels player, while the Dark Angels player has to hope the Tau player wants to buy an otherwise useless and nonsensical squad of Space Marines. The better solution would be something closer to the DA Player buys Cypher and the Fallen Squad from the store, and lets the opponent control them in exchange for some boost to their own army.

I don't think it's a balance problem because the relics do something against Necrons (even if it's not worth 20 pts on its own) and at the end of the day at most we're talking about 3 Relics not providing full value or providing maybe slightly more than full value. I think if all of the relics didn't have something for anti-Chaos you might end up picking one that didn't have it and avoid the thematic choice that is meant to highlight the Adepta Sororitas role as the henchies for the Ordo Hereticus (which also have the Chaos/Psyker hate. I am planning on doing the same for Grey Knights and Deathwatch. I also considered doing the same for the relics of other factions, like an anti-SW relic for TS but I am not sure how it should work and for Thousand Sons I focussed on the cults theme.

That's another reason I'd avoid the Historic Rivalry specific thing. It feels like they're mixing it up. UM are historic "rivals" with Word Bearers, and less so with World Eaters. So far they've faced Death Guard and KSons. Now that we do expect the World Eaters - the UM Secondary Rival, we're also expecting the return of the Lion - who is likely going to be pitted against Angron. I believe any/most of the historic rivalry type toys/shenanigans should be Stratagem based. "During the Deployment Phase, you can spend 1CP to give all Crimson Fists in your army - on the board or not - Hatred Effects (i.e. This, That, And The Next Thing) against Orks for the duration of the game" or whatever it costs for however long it lasts these flavor rules that are not universally useful should be cheap and should be bilateral (i.e. Orks Armies can spend 1CP to get "Good, Good Krumpin" with the same or equivalent to represent Orks figuring out they're facing Crimson Fists who have traditionally given them a good fight which is often what they want most). I'd probably make that one Strat with two activations that lives in the Crimson Fist supplement. And I'd probably make one-two of those for each supplement. UM-Wordbearers, UM-Nids, Iyanden-Nids, Cadians-Chaos. and so on.

I'd love to get some more detailed feedback from you, have I covered one of your factions yet? I was planning on doing Daemons next but if you'd be willing to check the rules out I write for one of your factions I will change my workflow.

I've got UM, DA, and I'm working on Nids and Aeldari.

 vict0988 wrote:
Do you like relics that just add a couple of extra stats to a weapon or give you access to a generic but powerful ability (such as teleportation)? Do you think Relics are stupid and should be removed? Do you think Chapter Tactics, Combat Doctrines and Super Doctrines are making the game much more enjoyable for you? I would like to see Relics become more than weapons with an extra +1 to S, AP and/or D and I would like the game to be easier to play by removing bloat. I suggest removing all Chapter Tactics, Combat Doctrines and Super Doctrines from the game and reworking relics to something like what I will list below. The format has not been cleaned up because I am writing these down elsewhere and this is just an alpha version of the concept so bolding and italicising would be a waste of my time, if you find reference to sub-factions or other mistakes please let me know. Sub-faction relics have been removed to give more options, sub-faction identity should be established by unique characters and Stratagems in my opinion. Design goals are:
*Each relic should be worth 20-30 points.
*Each relic should help give the faction identity.
*Each relic should feel unique within the faction.
*Each faction should have 8+ Relics.

Thousand Sons
Dysmanifestation is #22 in the Discipline of Vengeance. Astral Blast is #12 in the Discipline of Change. Warp Reality is #32 in the Discipline of Change.

Malediction: Warp Reality has a warp charge value of 6. If manifested, select one enemy unit within 18" of this PSYKER. Until the start of your next Psychic phase, subtract 1 from that unit’s Leadership and Attacks characteristics.

The bearer suffers perils of the warp on any roll of a double when attempting to manifest a Wrath of Magnus Umm...why?

Each time a Psychic test is taken for the bearer's Wrath of Magnus psychic power that contains any double, the bearer suffers Perils of the Warp.

EXALTED MUTATION

If the bearer has destroyed an enemy unit the bearer does not suffer any mortal wounds from Perils of the Warp. Increase the bearer's Toughness and Attacks characteristics by 1. The bearer knows the Swelled by the Warp psychic power.

Swelled by the Warp

Blessing: Swelled by the Warp has a warp charge value of 6. Wrath of Magnus. If manifested, select one friendly THOUSAND SONS model within 12" of this PSYKER and up to one friendly THOUSAND SONS SPAWN unit within 12" of this PSYKER. Until the start of your next Psychic phase, add 2 to the Strength characteristic of that unit and/or model. Rather pointless in most circumstances since it only affects 1 model and I'm more likely to Perils.

EGLEIGHEN’S ORRERY

If the bearer has destroyed an enemy unit the bearer does not suffer any mortal wounds from Perils of the Warp. At the start of deployment choose a Stratagem and reveal it to your opponent. Gain 1CP the first time your opponent uses the Stratagem. The bearer knows the Divine the Future psychic power.

Blessing: Divine the Future has a warp charge value of 9. Wrath of Magnus. Do not make a Psychic test the next time this PSYKER attempts to cast a psychic power: that Psychic test is passed at the minimum required warp charge value.This is ok, but a bit unnecessary.

THE PRISM OF ECHOES

If the bearer has destroyed an enemy unit the bearer does not suffer any mortal wounds from Perils of the Warp. The bearer has the Echo ability and knows the Time Flux psychic power. ‘Echo: The first time the bearer is destroyed, keep it to one side; at the end of the current phase roll a D6, set the bearer back up again on a 4+, as close as possible to its previous position and more than 1" away from any enemy models, with 1 wound remaining.’

Time Flux

Blessing: Time Flux has a warp charge value of 5. Wrath of Magnus. If manifested roll 1D6, select one friendly THOUSAND SONS INFANTRY unit within 6" of this PSYKER. You can return one destroyed model from that unit with a Wounds characteristic below the result of your D6 roll to the battlefield with all of its wounds remaining, placing it in unit coherency. I don't get why this is better than Temporal Manipulation or Time Flux.

HELM OF THE DAEMON’S EYE

If the bearer has destroyed an enemy unit the bearer does not suffer any mortal wounds from Perils of the Warp. The bearer gains the Grand Schemes ability and knows the Seeded Strategy psychic power. ‘Grand Schemes: Once per turn when a psychic power is successfully manifested by a friendly unit within 6" you can use this ability, if you do: Add 6" to the range of that psychic power’s effects (if that psychic power specifies multiple ranges, e.g. Astral Blast, add 6" to the first range specified in that psychic power).’ Does what Cabal Points do but with the added excitement of more Perils! Hard pass.

Seeded Strategy

Blessing: Seeded Strategy has a warp charge value of 5. Wrath of Magnus. If manifested, select one friendly THOUSAND SONS unit within 6" of this PSYKER. Until the end of the turn, that unit gains the Objective Secured ability. If it already has the Objective Secured ability, each model in that unit counts as two models for the purposes of determining who controls objective markers.

CORUSCATOR

If the bearer has destroyed an enemy unit the bearer does not suffer any mortal wounds from Perils of the Warp. Model equipped with an inferno bolt pistol only. Each time the bearer manifests a psychic power inflict 1 mortal wound on the nearest visible enemy unit within 12". The bearer knows the Coruscating Flames psychic power.

Coruscating Flames

Blessing: Coruscating Flames has a warp charge value of 5. Wrath of Magnus. If manifested, select this PSYKER and up to one friendly ARCANA ASTARTES unit you within 12" of this PSYKER. Until the end of the turn, add 1 to the Strength characteristic of all warpflamers, warpflame pistols and heavy warpflamers models in those units are equipped with. Does what Pyric Flux already does but with more Perils.

INCALADION’S PARADOXES

If the bearer has destroyed an enemy unit the bearer does not suffer any mortal wounds from Perils of the Warp. The bearer gains the Dialetheism ability and knows the Empyric Trespass psychic power. ‘Dialetheism: When the PSYKER manifests a psychic power you may ignore the closest visible enemy unit for the purpose of determining which unit is the closest visible enemy unit.’

Empyric Trespass

Malediction: Empyric Trespass has a warp charge value of 6. Wrath of Magnus. If manifested, the closest enemy unit within 24" of and visible to the PSYKER is selected. Until the start of your next Psychic phase, each time a friendly <THOUSAND SONS> unit within 6" of this PSYKER makes an attack that targets that enemy unit, you can re-roll the wound roll.

CAPRICIOUS CREST

If the bearer has destroyed an enemy unit the bearer does not suffer any mortal wounds from Perils of the Warp. Once per turn after taking a psychic test for a PSYKER within 6" of the bearer add 1 to the result. The bearer knows the Warp Reality psychic power.

Ephemeral Existence

Blessing: Ephemeral Existence has a warp charge of 6. Wrath of Magnus. If manifested, select one friendly THOUSAND SONS unit, that unit gains the FLY keyword until the end of the turn. After that unit has fought this turn it can make a move (and Advance) as if it were your Movement phase. If there are any enemy units within 1" it can Fall Back instead.

PERFIDIOUS TOME

If the bearer has destroyed an enemy unit the bearer does not suffer any mortal wounds from Perils of the Warp. The bearer has the Sorcerous Facade ability and knows the Glamour of Tzeentch psychic power. ‘Sorcerous Facade: At the start of the first battle round, before the first turn begins, select 1 THOUSAND SONS unit from your army. Remove that unit and this WARLORD from the battlefield then set them up again following the normal deployment rules for the mission being played.’

Glamour of Tzeentch

Blessing: Glamour of Tzeentch has a warp charge value of 6. Wrath of Magnus. If manifested, select one friendly THOUSAND SONS unit within 18" of this PSYKER. Until the start of your next Psychic phase, each time an attack is made against that unit, subtract 1 from that attack’s hit roll.

SEER’S BANE

If the bearer has destroyed an enemy unit the bearer does not suffer any mortal wounds from Perils of the Warp. Each time an attack is made against the bearer, the hit roll, wound roll and damage roll cannot be re-rolled. The bearer knows the Attempted Possession psychic power.

Attempted Possession

Malediction: Attempted Possession has a warp charge value of 5. Wrath of Magnus. If manifested, select one enemy unit within 18" of this PSYKER:

That unit suffers 1 mortal wound. Until the start of your next Psychic phase, each time a Psychic test is taken for that unit, subtract 2 from that Psychic test and if the result of the test is 2 or less the PSYKER suffers Perils of the Warp.

I gave up reading the rest, I don't get what your reasoning is here. I wouldn't take any of these for free, let alone pay 20-30pts for them. They're overall boring, don't have any real use that isn't already covered, and you also have a 1/6 chance of auto-perils because "oh it's their identity".

Alright. You say your design goal is to make Relics worth 20-30 points. That seems like a bad goal-a 20 point upgrade is something like a MultiMelta. That's potent... But it's not interesting.

I think a better design goal should be to have a smaller number of relics (eight or more per faction is a lot of room for bloat and/or boredom) but make them much more impactful. Auras or unit-wide targeted buffs are a good place to start.
Egleighen's Orrery, from the current TSon's Dex, is a good example of a potent, impactful, and interesting relic.

For CSM, maybe try something like...

Edit: Also, I apologize for my first post. It wasn't constructive, and I should've at least offered some advice or something. Not just toss out an insult.

 vict0988 wrote:

Breton wrote:
Bloat is turning into a cliche now.

Opposing Faction specifics (i.e. Hatred:Orks) or your CHAOS or PSYKER stuff has traditionally been bad.

What do you mean? Do you think hating on bloat turning into a cliche?

Do you think the Adepta Sororitas are worth less than 20 pts on average? The old Astra Militarum anti-Chaos Stratagem was really strong from what I remember. I don't think it's a balance problem because the relics do something against Necrons (even if it's not worth 20 pts on its own) and at the end of the day at most we're talking about 3 Relics not providing full value or providing maybe slightly more than full value. I think if all of the relics didn't have something for anti-Chaos you might end up picking one that didn't have it and avoid the thematic choice that is meant to highlight the Adepta Sororitas role as the henchies for the Ordo Hereticus (which also have the Chaos/Psyker hate. I am planning on doing the same for Grey Knights and Deathwatch. I also considered doing the same for the relics of other factions, like an anti-SW relic for TS but I am not sure how it should work and for Thousand Sons I focussed on the cults theme.

I'd love to get some more detailed feedback from you, have I covered one of your factions yet? I was planning on doing Daemons next but if you'd be willing to check the rules out I write for one of your factions I will change my workflow.

One issue with anti-X rules are that they are pretty much impossible to balance unless you only take those when facing that faction.

So unless your rule ideas have way to add relics AFTER you know your opponent you can't make item that's worth the cost when not facing that faction and when facing that faction.

Stratagems it can be done because you don't have to spend CP for it. As long as it's not "X except X+1 when facing chaos"(assuming CP cost doesn't change then).

Having an extra option still increase the faction's power against the preferred enemy. Like the Astra Militarum Stratagem Vengeance for Cadia did because using Vengeance for Cadia was more CP efficient than using another CP re-roll and you could use both a CP re-roll and Vengeance for Cadia in the same phase. I don't think 3 Adepta Sororitas Relics being better against Chaos is going to break the balance, although it would make the match-up easier.

 vict0988 wrote:
Having an extra option still increase the faction's power against the preferred enemy. Like the Astra Militarum Stratagem Vengeance for Cadia did because using Vengeance for Cadia was more CP efficient than using another CP re-roll and you could use both a CP re-roll and Vengeance for Cadia in the same phase. I don't think 3 Adepta Sororitas Relics being better against Chaos is going to break the balance, although it would make the match-up easier.

In theory, anti-faction-x rules are bad because (assuming the army you're playing is balanced against faction-x), the possible outcomes are:
1. You don't take the relic, you don't play against faction X:The relic didn't matter.
2. You take the relic, you don't play against faction x: You've wasted points or CP or relic slots to take a relic that doesn't do anything or doesn't do as much as it should.
3. You take the relic, you play against faction x: Either the relic is so powerful that it adds some imbalance to your otherwise balanced game, or the relic isn't that powerful and could be changed to work against all factions to avoid scenario 2.
4. You don't take the relic, you play against faction x: The relic didn't matter.

That said, it looks like your sororitas relics can all be triggered off of the PSYKER keyword as well as CHAOS. So that does mitigate the risk of encountering scenario 2 somewhat. Scenario 3 is still a concern though.

Taking a look at the sororitas relics...

BLADE OF SAINT ELLYNOR
Model equipped with a blessed blade only. Each time the bearer fails a saving throw add 1 to the Damage characteristic of the bearer's blessed blade until the end of the game. Add 1 to the bearer's Strength characteristic for each enemy CHAOS or PSYKER unit within 3" of the bearer.

To clarify, is the Strength boost something you check/calculate each time Strength comes up (so whenever the user fights basically), or is it a permanent bonus that kicks in when you fail a save? The latter could get silly fast. I think I like the generic (not-anti-chaos/psyker) rules for this. I guess you could have a hospitaler follow your canoness around and end up with a silly-high Damage stat, but that's so gimmicky and so dependent on constantly getting your canoness hurt that it's probably fine. I don't normally like raw offense boost relics, but having to get injured to pull it off makes it interesting and seems fluffy.

BLESSINGS OF SEBASTIAN THOR

Each time the bearer makes a melee attack against a CHAOS or PSYKER unit an unmodified hit roll of 6 inflicts an additional hit. Each time the bearer fails a saving throw add 1 to the bearer's Charge rolls to a maximum of 12 until the end of the battle.

The generic part of this is interesting, though probably not useful. If your character is taking damage, they're probably either about to die or already close enough to the enemy to not need a charge boost. The anti-chaos part of the relic falls into my lethality boost pet peeve and feels kind of bland.

BOOK OF SAINT LUCIUS

When the bearer fails a saving throw the bearer gains Objective Secured until the end of the battle round. Add 3" to the range of the bearer’s aura abilities (to a maximum of 12") if your opponent's army includes any CHAOS or PSYKER units.

Making things last until the end of the battle round can be slightly wonky. Scoring may happen at the start of a battle round or during your command phase; in which case, the obsec could turn off right before it had a chance to be useful. Tying the range boost to chaos/psykers feels arbitrary. Half this relic's usefulness may or may not be active in a given PUG based on what your opponent is fielding that day.

BRAZIER OF ETERNAL FLAME

Model with a brazier of holy fire only. Once per game when the bearer fails a saving throw made against a melee attack made by a CHAOS or PSYKER unit the bearer inflicts 3 mortal wounds on the attacking unit. The bearer has the following ability: ‘Eternal Flame (Aura): Each time a friendly ADEPTA SORORITAS unit within 6" of the bearer would lose a wound as a result of a mortal wound, roll one D6: on a 5+, that wound is not lost.’

Extra FNP aura? Pretty useful. But again, a pretty major part of this relic's value is matchup dependent. Also, needing to be in melee for the anti-chaos/psyker part to kick in means that this becomes more niche because librarians, farseers, etc. aren't necessarily going to be trying to get into melee.

CHAPLET OF SACRIFICE

When the bearer fails a saving throw the enemy unit that made the attack becomes castigated. Until the end of the battle, each time an ADEPTA SORORITAS model makes an attack against that enemy unit, add 1 to that attack’s wound roll even if the bearer is removed from the battlefield. When the bearer is destroyed, do not remove that model from play. At the end of the phase, it can either shoot as if it were your Shooting phase, or fight as if it were the Fight phase. After resolving the destroyed model’s attacks, it is then removed.

This one is neat, but I wonder if it's potentially a bit much? It's possible that it will take several units to gun down the bearer. Having an army-wide +1 to wound against a significant portion of the enemy army for the rest of the game seems like it *might* be a bit much. Also, maybe a bit much to track. Maybe have the castigation only last until the start of the bearer's command phase or only castigate the unit that most recently hurt the character?

IRON SURPLICE OF SAINT ISTAELA

ADEPTA SORORITAS model only. Each time an attack is made against the bearer, an unmodified wound roll of 1-3 for that attack fails, irrespective of any abilities that the weapon or the model making the attack may have. Each time a friendly ADEPTA SORORITAS unit within 6" of the bearer fails a saving throw the bearer regains 1 wound lost earlier in the battle.

The healing part is neat. Personally not a fan of "stuff fails on a 1-x" rule because it's weird that something capable of nerfing a marine's attack doesn't also nerf a guardsman's. But this is probably fine.

LITANIES OF FAITH

The bearer has the following ability: ‘Litanies of Faith (Aura): Enemy units within 6" of the bearer count as having the CHAOS keyword. While a friendly ADEPTA SORORITAS unit is within 6" of the bearer, the invulnerable save models in that unit receive from the Shield of Faith ability against attacks made by CHAOS or PSYKER models is improved by 1 (to a maximum of 4+).’

The keyword thing still feels weird here. Also, obviously this makes all the other relics potentially way more useful/reliable. (Which in turn means it's harder to price them.) It also feels weird that you're more durable against the AP-2 guns shooting you at point blank range than the same kind of gun shooting you from farther away.

MANTLE OF OPHELIA

Once per battle when the bearer fails a saving throw made against an attack made by a CHAOS or PSYKER unit change the Damage characteristic of that attack to 0. Add 2 to the bearer's Wounds characteristic.

Seems like a sidegrade from the current version. Seems fine.

REDEMPTION

ADEPTA SORORITAS model equipped with a plasma pistol only. Each time the bearer fails a saving throw the bearer can shoot its plasma pistol as if it were your Shooting phase. The bearer has the following ability: ‘Redemption (Aura): Enemy CHAOS or PSYKER units within 6" of the bearer may not roll invulnerable saving throws.’

The retallitory plasma pistol attacks are neat. Not a fan of rules that completely negate invuln saves. Especially given that the entire chaos daemons faction is dependent on their invulns. (Or are those considered invulns these days?)

SIMULACRUM SANCTORUM

IMAGIFIER model only. When the bearer fails a saving throw the bearer can replace one ability listed under the Litany of Deeds ability it has with one ability it does not have from the Litany of Deeds ability. At the start of the battle, before the first turn begins, you must select two tales for the bearer to recount instead of just one if your opponent's list contains any CHAOS or PSYKER units. You cannot select a tale that another model from your army is already recounting unless all three tales are being recounted by models from your army.

This is either one cute relic or one cute relic with a pretty powerful second relic on top of it depending on what your opponent is fielding.

THE ECCLESIARCH’S FURY

Model equipped with a chainsword only. Each time a friendly ADEPTA SORORITAS unit within 6" of the bearer fails a saving throw the bearer can make one additional attack with the bearer's chainsword the next time the bearer fights. Add 1 to wound rolls for attacks made with the bearer's chainsword against CHAOS and PSYKER units.

I like the generic rule here. Flavorful. Potentially changes up how you'd use a priest. The anti-chaos/psyker half falls into the generic "make a more killy version of an existing weapons" territory.

THE SIGIL ECCLESIASTICUS

PRIEST model only. When the bearer fails a saving throw the bearer automatically intones War Hymn. The bearer has the following ability: ‘The Sigil Ecclesiastus (Aura): Friendly IMPERIUM units within 6" of the bearer add 3" to their Advance rolls if your opponent controls any CHAOS or PSYKER units.’

Hmm. Isn't one of the hymns basically a smite? So if your priest gets boltered to death, he can potentially get off a few smites in response?

WRATH OF THE EMPEROR

ADEPTA SORORITAS model equipped with a bolt pistol only. Add 1 to the Strength and Damage characteristics of the bearer's bolt pistol against CHAOS and PSYKER units. The bearer has the following ability: ‘Wrath of the Emperor (Aura): Friendly ADEPTA SORORITAS units within 6" can inflict a single hit with a bolt weapon they are equipped with each time the unit fails a saving throw. These hits must target a unit that the unit could target with a ranged attack using that weapon in the Shooting phase, meaning weapons other than Pistol weapons cannot be used in melee and a unit in melee would not be able to fire its Pistol weapons at a target the unit is not in melee with or a unit that is out of range.’

I feel like that's too much out-of-sequence shooting. If I have 5 units with bolt weapons within 6" of the bearer, I don't want to have to stop and roll 5 units' attacks each time something shoots at the bearer. Also, do I have to roll the to-hit roll, or is it 1 automatic hit with a bolt weapon? And is it intentional that this could let my immolator land hits with its heavy bolter?

The +1 S and D vs chaos/psykers falls into the bland "kill more" category.

Overall, there are some fun ideas in there, and I like the martyr-flavored rules. But it's impossible to put a cost on these things because they either do 1 thing or 2 things depending on your opponent's list. And how much of each relic's power is tied up in a generic effect or an anti-chaos effect varies from relic to relic. Is Redemption *only* a handful of out of sequence plasma attacks, or is it also an always on Null Zone?

 Wyldhunt wrote:


In theory, anti-faction-x rules are bad because (assuming the army you're playing is balanced against faction-x), the possible outcomes are:
1. You don't take the relic, you don't play against faction X:The relic didn't matter.
2. You take the relic, you don't play against faction x: You've wasted points or CP or relic slots to take a relic that doesn't do anything or doesn't do as much as it should.
3. You take the relic, you play against faction x: Either the relic is so powerful that it adds some imbalance to your otherwise balanced game, or the relic isn't that powerful and could be changed to work against all factions to avoid scenario 2.
4. You don't take the relic, you play against faction x: The relic didn't matter.

I'm starting to really groove to the solution I just fell backwards into. Make those Preferred-Opposition a Deployment Strat.

If you play DA against Chaos, you can spend 1CP for This Benefit. If Chaos wishes to they can spend 1CP for this other benefit. (in the DA book, or potentially the Big Book of Battle Brothers and Animosity)

If you play Chaos Space Marines against Imperium you can spend 1CP for something else, while the Imperium can spend 1CP for yet another benefit. (In the Chaos Book)

I even like making it The Big Book of Battle Brothers and Animosity. At that point you can do UM vs Nids, UM vs DG, UM vs Word Bearers, DA with Wolves, and DA against Wolves, Nids vs Iyanden, Crimson Fists vs Orks. Angron vs Tranquilizers.

 Wyldhunt wrote:
In theory, anti-faction-x rules are bad because (assuming the army you're playing is balanced against faction-x), the possible outcomes are:
1. You don't take the relic, you don't play against faction X:The relic didn't matter.
2. You take the relic, you don't play against faction x: You've wasted points or CP or relic slots to take a relic that doesn't do anything or doesn't do as much as it should.
3. You take the relic, you play against faction x: Either the relic is so powerful that it adds some imbalance to your otherwise balanced game, or the relic isn't that powerful and could be changed to work against all factions to avoid scenario 2.
4. You don't take the relic, you play against faction x: The relic didn't matter.

I didn't mean for there to be options that without the anti-CHAOS/PSYKER aspect for Adepta Sororitas. I want to force thematic rules down players' throats instead of people taking the generic teleportation relic for every faction because "hey, that's a fun and powerful rule GW gave me for some reason".

My thought is that you could apply the same logic to lascannons vs boltguns. Anti-tank weapons are bad because either you don't bring anti-tank, you don't play against tanks so you're wasting points on anti-tank, you play against tanks and the anti-tank weapons let you easily win the game or the anti-tank weapon is so overcosted that you'd have been better off taking all boltguns. Why not just have lascannons fire 10 S4 AP- D1 shots?

Because you're trying to tell something thematic with the rules of the game. Writing in cursive that lascannons are the Imperium's main anti-tank weapon doesn't mean anything in the game if it just fires a lot of boltgun shots. It needs to be better against vehicles and worse against infantry for its points relative to those points spent on more boltguns.

Daemons don't currently have invulnerable saves, but I'd give them back their invulnerable saves so it's a valid point to me.

I think instead of doing a big book of battle brothers and animosity you'd be better off printing a few unique missions for each army collection book alongside the fluff of the faction to represent iconic kinds of battles the faction engages in, print the datasheets in an index and the relics and stuff in the Munitorum Field Manual.

I think saying that SoB are anti CHAOS/PSYKER is an important statement to make and I don't think it'd be so OP as to be unfun to play against the current ones or that SoB would be horribly out of debt against other factions just because they're missing half a 15 points worth of relic. The litanies of faith are there in case you want to go all in on them and that does make the other two relics better, but litanies of faith by itself should be missing a bit of oomph so the intention is that it all roughly balances out. You'd still need to get in range with the litanies of faith to get the anti-CHAOS bonuses of the other relics against an Imperium or Xenos unit.

Here's how shooting at an Immolater within 6" of the bearer of Wrath of the Emperor would go. You make 3 lascannon hits, 2 wounds, 2 unfailed saves, the Immolater and no other units gets to inflict a single hit with its heavy bolter, roll to wound, roll save, roll damage for the first lascannon, inflict another hit with the heavy bolter, roll damage for the second lascannon. Making it apply to non-vehicle units will be added for the list of things I need to change as well as seeing if I can clarify its effect.

 vict0988 wrote:

I didn't mean for there to be options that without the anti-CHAOS/PSYKER aspect for Adepta Sororitas. I want to force thematic rules down players' throats instead of people taking the generic teleportation relic for every faction because "hey, that's a fun and powerful rule GW gave me for some reason".

I assume you didn't mean to tell Sisters players they should refuse to play Tau, Black Templars, Most Orks, or a host of other armies, but you did. These rules should come into play, but in a such a way that it doesn't cost you anything when they don't apply. CP/Strats appears to be the mechanism for that, not Relics or Chapter Tactics etc.

My thought is that you could apply the same logic to lascannons vs boltguns. Anti-tank weapons are bad because either you don't bring anti-tank, you don't play against tanks so you're wasting points on anti-tank, you play against tanks and the anti-tank weapons let you easily win the game or the anti-tank weapon is so overcosted that you'd have been better off taking all boltguns. Why not just have lascannons fire 10 S4 AP- D1 shots?

Because you're trying to tell something thematic with the rules of the game. Writing in cursive that lascannons are the Imperium's main anti-tank weapon doesn't mean anything in the game if it just fires a lot of boltgun shots. It needs to be better against vehicles and worse against infantry for its points relative to those points spent on more boltguns.

I think the solution is rooted in an adaptation of their AIRCRAFT rules philosophy. Two Systems that coexist but rarely interact. Either a Size/Difficulty Stat, or two stat bands, or both. Lascannons get a big -tohit vs Man Sized, vs normal BS skill for Medium Tanks and up. Lascannos get S18 D15, Knights, Land Raiders and such are T 20 W140 or some such.. So while a Lascannon could vaporize a Chapter Master, it can barely hit the broadside of a barn, making hitting the Captain rather difficult. On the flip side, a Heavy Bolter has to work to miss the big walking Tank Titan, but D2 is just telling you to pack a lunch cause all you did was scratch the paint. They're already sort of doing this with two profile choices for the one weapon Burst Fire vs Solid Shell etc. But they need to really lean into it to differentiate between a Terminator, and a Warlord Titan.

Daemons don't currently have invulnerable saves, but I'd give them back their invulnerable saves so it's a valid point to me.

I think instead of doing a big book of battle brothers and animosity you'd be better off printing a few unique missions for each army collection book alongside the fluff of the faction to represent iconic kinds of battles the faction engages in, print the datasheets in an index and the relics and stuff in the Munitorum Field Manual.

Well you're still trying to do it as relics, and everybody keeps telling you a locked in faction specific choice across multiple random all comers battles is bad. Tailoring your list when you know they're playing TKSons loaded with Chaos and Psykers is bad.

I think saying that SoB are anti CHAOS/PSYKER is an important statement to make and I don't think it'd be so OP as to be unfun to play against the current ones or that SoB would be horribly out of debt against other factions just because they're missing half a 15 points worth of relic. The litanies of faith are there in case you want to go all in on them and that does make the other two relics better, but litanies of faith by itself should be missing a bit of oomph so the intention is that it all roughly balances out. You'd still need to get in range with the litanies of faith to get the anti-CHAOS bonuses of the other relics against an Imperium or Xenos unit.

Here's how shooting at an Immolater within 6" of the bearer of Wrath of the Emperor would go. You make 3 lascannon hits, 2 wounds, 2 unfailed saves, the Immolater and no other units gets to inflict a single hit with its heavy bolter, roll to wound, roll save, roll damage for the first lascannon, inflict another hit with the heavy bolter, roll damage for the second lascannon. Making it apply to non-vehicle units will be added for the list of things I need to change as well as seeing if I can clarify its effect.

 vict0988 wrote:

 Wyldhunt wrote:
In theory, anti-faction-x rules are bad because (assuming the army you're playing is balanced against faction-x), the possible outcomes are:
1. You don't take the relic, you don't play against faction X:The relic didn't matter.
2. You take the relic, you don't play against faction x: You've wasted points or CP or relic slots to take a relic that doesn't do anything or doesn't do as much as it should.
3. You take the relic, you play against faction x: Either the relic is so powerful that it adds some imbalance to your otherwise balanced game, or the relic isn't that powerful and could be changed to work against all factions to avoid scenario 2.
4. You don't take the relic, you play against faction x: The relic didn't matter.

I didn't mean for there to be options that without the anti-CHAOS/PSYKER aspect for Adepta Sororitas. I want to force thematic rules down players' throats instead of people taking the generic teleportation relic for every faction because "hey, that's a fun and powerful rule GW gave me for some reason".

I'm all for fluffy rules. But do note that that the teleportation relics are fun and "powerful" (read: useful) and generally change up how an army plays.

My thought is that you could apply the same logic to lascannons vs boltguns. Anti-tank weapons are bad because either you don't bring anti-tank, you don't play against tanks so you're wasting points on anti-tank, you play against tanks and the anti-tank weapons let you easily win the game or the anti-tank weapon is so overcosted that you'd have been better off taking all boltguns. Why not just have lascannons fire 10 S4 AP- D1 shots?
...
I think saying that SoB are anti CHAOS/PSYKER is an important statement to make and I don't think it'd be so OP as to be unfun to play against the current ones or that SoB would be horribly out of debt against other factions just because they're missing half a 15 points worth of relic. The litanies of faith are there in case you want to go all in on them and that does make the other two relics better, but litanies of faith by itself should be missing a bit of oomph so the intention is that it all roughly balances out. You'd still need to get in range with the litanies of faith to get the anti-CHAOS bonuses of the other relics against an Imperium or Xenos unit.

Those are fair points. Balance is a matter of getting armies "close enough" to have a good game, after all, not a matter of making them 100% equally powerful down to the last point. However, I still think it's worth pointing out that knowing you basically wasted points still tends not to feel good.

Remember in 7th (6th?) edition when flyers were being brought into "normal" 40k and GW introduced the option to pay point sfor flakk missiles on your missile launchers/ Buying flakk didn't feel good. You either didn't face flyers and didn't use it, faced flyers and regretted not taking it, or faced flyers and kind of resented the necessity of spending x points to deal with the annoying flyer rules. Nowadays, flakk is a stratagem, and it probably works out better that way. You don't have to commit to investing in it pre-game; you just have the option to use it in games where you know it will be useful. A lot of your anti-faction rules seem like they might be better received as stratagems or some other optional mechanic that you don't have to gamble on being able to use pregame.

You could also lean into giving sisters options that are good against psykers/chaos without tying their rules to those keywords. For instance, giving them something to reduce invuln saves works well against daemons and many psykers, but it also helps against anything else in the game with an invuln save. Giving them rules to help against mortal wounds helps against smites, but it also helps against railguns, etc.

I think instead of doing a big book of battle brothers and animosity you'd be better off printing a few unique missions for each army collection book alongside the fluff of the faction to represent iconic kinds of battles the faction engages in, print the datasheets in an index and the relics and stuff in the Munitorum Field Manual.

Sounds cool.

Here's how shooting at an Immolater within 6" of the bearer of Wrath of the Emperor would go. You make 3 lascannon hits, 2 wounds, 2 unfailed saves, the Immolater and no other units gets to inflict a single hit with its heavy bolter, roll to wound, roll save, roll damage for the first lascannon, inflict another hit with the heavy bolter, roll damage for the second lascannon. Making it apply to non-vehicle units will be added for the list of things I need to change as well as seeing if I can clarify its effect.

That still sounds a little wonky to me. ;S

I added 1 to the number of mortal wounds inflicted by Ghorisvex's Teeth, that puts its math ahead of a thunder hammer against most targets.

I reduced the casting values of all Relic powers of the Thousand Sons to make up for the added chance of suffering damage. Thousand Sons identity is meddling with powers that are beyond mortals and eventually mastering them.

My intention is to remove Thousand Sons Relics, WL traits, Cults of the Legion, Legion Command, Cabbalistic Rituals and rearrange the psychic powers as outlined in the OP at the start of the Thousand Sons section or possibly replace Thousand Sons disciplines entirely. The official Eigleghen's Orrery is bad because it is conveying no fluff, Relics don't need to change the way you play because I'd make self-mix Stratagems do that role. The only reason I don't want to cut Relics like I want to cut Combat Doctrines is because I think it's a neat way to add flavour without each faction needing a 2-page rule like Cabbalistic Rituals.

I improved the AP and D characteristics of Parasite's Kiss and changed the wording to highlight the effect working for the bearer's other weapons.

I made the Soulhelm FNP work against all damage. The reason the Soulhelm is the anti-Psyker relic is because it has the souls of Farseers in it and I think that's a fun bit of irony. I think the problem with the official Helm of Spite is that it doesn't feel Spiteful or Sadistic and doesn't show the Drukhari getting more powerful when their enemies suffer.

I doubled the amount of mortal wounds inflicted by The Helm of Spite. The name fits the theme in my opinion, the bearer inflicts pain out of spite because the enemies dared try to harm the bearer.

I added a bonus Aura to The Nightmare Doll. The idea behind the invulnerable save activating when a nearby enemy runs away is that the fleeing enemy somehow gets trapped inside the doll and used to absorb some of the attacks the bearer suffers.

I changed the aura name of Writ of the Living Muse to highlight the theatrical nature of reading out Vect's words after destroying an enemy.

With the Triptych Whip and with the relics in general I am going for representing a feeling and theme more than a "it'd make sense if this thing happened when you use this weapon". Because for a lot of more powerful weapons it might make perfectly good sense for it to just do more damage, but that is super boring. I don't see how a Webway Portal Generator has anything to do with representing the theme that Drukhari are going for.

I limited Wrath of the Emperor to INFANTRY. If the bearer of Saint Ellynor has failed 3 saves and is within 3" of 2 Chaos units the weapon would get +3D +2S. I changed the Brazier to give the Aura against armies with a CHAOS or PSYKER unit and to always have the MW ability.

I added an anti PSYKER/CHAOS aspect to Chaplet of Sacrifice and Iron Surplice of Saint Istaela

I don't think the Necron Relics are actually boring. I think they seem impactful enough to be fun and I think the twist of needing to be programmed to work on a turn will be fun when your opponent plays around your predicted turn and then it turns out you had a different turn or when your opponent tries to go for a play and hopes and winces in anticipation thinking you have your big turn coming up but you saved it for a later turn. Even if Ghorisvex's Teeth is terrible, I'd still argue it is more fun to have a Chaos Lord on a mission to destroy an enemy unit to avoid getting eaten by his own chainsword as opposed to just adding a bucket of stats to him because "we gotta fill the Relic quota".