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damage for low S weapons on monsters and vehicles tends to be referred to as chip damage, but how much damage do such weapons need to do to exceed 'chip' status?

Do people think of "chip damage" as having a clean cut-off? It's a fuzzy term for me, and one that varies a bit based on context.

When I'm talking about killing a rhino, a krak missile does "real damage" at Dd6. When I'm talking about an imperial knight, I think of that same Dd6 as "chip damage."

When the damage dealt in one go becomes impactful.

To use the rhino above example of a rhino, a knight, and a krak missile: a single krak missle into a single rhino is likely to do a significant percentage of its overall wounds, and will probably bracket it, in one go. Thereby presenting itself as a significant threat to the rhino. Where as a krak missle into a knight isn’t going to shave off a large percentage of its overall sounds, and is incapable of bracketing the knight on its own. So while it may hurt the knight it doesn’t have a single large impact on its performance or remaining durability, and it will take multiple of them chipping away to have a noticeable effect.

Simply chipping the paint, if you will.

 morganfreeman wrote:
When the damage dealt in one go becomes impactful.

To use the rhino above example of a rhino, a knight, and a krak missile: a single krak missle into a single rhino is likely to do a significant percentage of its overall wounds, and will probably bracket it, in one go. Thereby presenting itself as a significant threat to the rhino. Where as a krak missle into a knight isn’t going to shave off a large percentage of its overall sounds, and is incapable of bracketing the knight on its own. So while it may hurt the knight it doesn’t have a single large impact on its performance or remaining durability, and it will take multiple of them chipping away to have a noticeable effect.

Simply chipping the paint, if you will.

At a 2/6 chance, a single krak missle will probably NOT bracket an undamaged Rhino.

You're also disregarding the existence of Armigar class Knights for some reason. (Maybe no one plays them in your area?) With 12 wounds they can go from undamaged to bracketed 1/6 times.

And any roll you'd consider signifiant vs a rhino? Will be signifiant to the Armigar as well.

 morganfreeman wrote:
When the damage dealt in one go becomes impactful.

To use the rhino above example of a rhino, a knight, and a krak missile: a single krak missle into a single rhino is likely to do a significant percentage of its overall wounds, and will probably bracket it, in one go. Thereby presenting itself as a significant threat to the rhino. Where as a krak missle into a knight isn’t going to shave off a large percentage of its overall sounds, and is incapable of bracketing the knight on its own. So while it may hurt the knight it doesn’t have a single large impact on its performance or remaining durability, and it will take multiple of them chipping away to have a noticeable effect.

Simply chipping the paint, if you will.

define impactful. a lasgun doing 1 damage can be impactful if it's removing a LoW's last wound, or if that wound brackets the vehicle.
on the big knight, few individual guns have the capability of bracketing the knight in one go.
baneblade battle cannon for example. no one would call that chip damage, but it's not going to bracket a knight or another baneblade on its own.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
i was thinking about this, because last night i managed to take 3 wounds off of a knight princeps(?) one of the big boys, with lasguns(not using born soldiers either.)

johnpjones1775 wrote:
damage for low S weapons on monsters and vehicles tends to be referred to as chip damage, but how much damage do such weapons need to do to exceed 'chip' status?

I am not sure that it matters, but to me "chip" damage is fairly low-probability damage 1 or damage 2 shots. So if you need a 5 or a 6 to wound, don't have -2 AP or better and are doing 1 or 2 damage then its "chip" damage. So a squad of Bolt Rifles are hoping to inflict "chip" damage on an enemy vehicle or monster, but a squad of Hellblasters are not doing chip damage even if they are individually damage 1 or 2 (or more depending). You expect the squad of Hellblasters to do "real" damage to a big target. But that's just my thoughts.

Is there context for your query? Some other debate or tactics question?

ps - Just saw your last post. Yes, I would consider those 3 wounds that the Lasguns inflicted as "chip" damage

 Wyldhunt wrote:
Do people think of "chip damage" as having a clean cut-off? It's a fuzzy term for me, and one that varies a bit based on context.

When I'm talking about killing a rhino, a krak missile does "real damage" at Dd6. When I'm talking about an imperial knight, I think of that same Dd6 as "chip damage."

there's multiple classes of knight, so you need to be a lot more specific, since the warglaives/armigers only have about 12 wounds. 4-6 damage is undeniably significant then.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

TangoTwoBravo wrote:

johnpjones1775 wrote:
damage for low S weapons on monsters and vehicles tends to be referred to as chip damage, but how much damage do such weapons need to do to exceed 'chip' status?

I am not sure that it matters, but to me "chip" damage is fairly low-probability damage 1 or damage 2 shots. So if you need a 5 or a 6 to wound, don't have -2 AP or better and are doing 1 or 2 damage then its "chip" damage. So a squad of Bolt Rifles are hoping to inflict "chip" damage on an enemy vehicle or monster, but a squad of Hellblasters are not doing chip damage even if they are individually damage 1 or 2 (or more depending). You expect the squad of Hellblasters to do "real" damage to a big target. But that's just my thoughts.

Is there context for your query? Some other debate or tactics question?

ps - Just saw your last post. Yes, I would consider those 3 wounds that the Lasguns inflicted as "chip" damage

how about if every squad managed 3 damage? i had 5 squads that would be 15 wounds of 'chip' damage

“Chip” damage is stuff where you generally expect it to do nothing, but might get lucky.

Statistically, you might do a wound or two, but it’s fishing for 6s type of stuff.

Now our fickle little 6-sided friends have a mind of their own, and random numbers being what they are come in streaks sometimes. And we chuck a lot of dice so can expect to see oddities.

Blowing 3 wounds off a knight with flashlights is really lucky, but still chip damage.

 Nevelon wrote:
“Chip” damage is stuff where you generally expect it to do nothing, but might get lucky.

Statistically, you might do a wound or two, but it’s fishing for 6s type of stuff.

Now our fickle little 6-sided friends have a mind of their own, and random numbers being what they are come in streaks sometimes. And we chuck a lot of dice so can expect to see oddities.

Blowing 3 wounds off a knight with flashlights is really lucky, but still chip damage.

maybe it was just a lucky game, but i was scoring about 2 damage per turn off of las/autoguns and hotshot lasguns/pistols

2 failed saves
6 wounds
36 hits
72 shots on average, at BS4+.

With Born Soldiers, it’s 27 shots on average.

Also, chip damage is subjective-it’s not a hard and fast definition.

ccs wrote:
You're also disregarding the existence of Armigar class Knights for some reason. (Maybe no one plays them in your area?) With 12 wounds they can go from undamaged to bracketed 1/6 times.

johnpjones1775 wrote:there's multiple classes of knight, so you need to be a lot more specific, since the warglaives/armigers only have about 12 wounds. 4-6 damage is undeniably significant then.

...Is this like, a new pet peeve among knight players or something? Respectfully, I think it's pretty clear from context that I was comparing a relatively humble vehicle (a rhino) to something with significantly more wounds (the knight). You both seem to have understood that morganfreeman and I weren't talking about armigers, so we seem to have communicated the type of unit we were referring to effectively. Not trying to sour the thread or anything, but what is the purpose the quoted portions of your responses other than to go, "Um akshoowally, armigers are technically knights too."

 Wyldhunt wrote:

ccs wrote:
You're also disregarding the existence of Armigar class Knights for some reason. (Maybe no one plays them in your area?) With 12 wounds they can go from undamaged to bracketed 1/6 times.

johnpjones1775 wrote:there's multiple classes of knight, so you need to be a lot more specific, since the warglaives/armigers only have about 12 wounds. 4-6 damage is undeniably significant then.

...Is this like, a new pet peeve among knight players or something? Respectfully, I think it's pretty clear from context that I was comparing a relatively humble vehicle (a rhino) to something with significantly more wounds (the knight). You both seem to have understood that morganfreeman and I weren't talking about armigers, so we seem to have communicated the type of unit we were referring to effectively. Not trying to sour the thread or anything, but what is the purpose the quoted portions of your responses other than to go, "Um akshoowally, armigers are technically knights too."

Stop being sloppy in what your describing & you won't get called out for your misrepresentations.

Oh, and I'm not a Knight player.

Did anyone find it legitimately confusing as to what Wyldhunt was referring to?

I knew he meant a Questoris chassis or bigger.
You all seem to have known that.

I don't consider chip damage to have a cut off.
It's less about the threshold and more about the weapon profile.
So for example I would classify a kasrkin bomb as chip damage. Chip damage is, individually, low damage of 1-2d per failed save. But in high quantity much harder to mitigate with strats, (and for d1 it is also immune to damage reduction abilities). Mortal wounds also fall into this category for me.

Vs spike damage which is better profile lower volume typically and potential for near one shot status.

So while the spike damage is flashy and potentially more devastating, depending on the chassis the chip damage may often be the higher threat. Flamers, kasrkin, dire avengers, glad reapers, machine gun cs commander and so on.

Anyway that's my take. I find classifying weapons makes it easier to build lists and quickly categorize opposing units by threat priority.

Chip damage, I would generally expect to not impact the opponent's unit's capabilities for the next turn, but shave off a few wounds / models (depending on what we're talking about), so it might be slightly easier to kill/cripple when I commit to doing so hopefully next turn.

Non-chip damage, I am genuinely trying to remove an opponent's resource, ideally by killing the model/unit or at least crippling it to be no longer a factor in the game (though that might go sideways).

I like the rhino / knight example - it seemed clear enough - especially once I worked out we weren't talking about a model dropping to the floor....