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Made in fr
Regular Dakkanaut




20/04/2023

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2023/04/20/safe-terrain-is-now-simple-terrain-in-the-new-edition-of-warhammer-40000/



Safe Terrain Is Now Simple Terrain in the New Edition of Warhammer 40,000
  • Having the Benefit of Cover will not improve saves of a 3+ or better against weapons with an Armour Penetration characteristic of 0. This means a unit will never have its save improved to 2+ by terrain. Cover is not cumulative.

  • Terrains is now divided into 6 categories : craters, barricades, debris, hills, woods, or ruins.

  • Craters : wholly on top. INFANTRY only

  • Barricades : charges must end within 2" of a enemy unit behind a barricade
    In the Fight phase, attacks can be made trough barricades if units are within 2" of each others
    Cover bonus : INFANTRY only

  • Debris : need to be wholly within. No unit category restriction.

  • Hills, which includes buildings that units can stand on. Model must be not fully visible to every attacker model. No unit category restriction.

  • Woods : need to be wholly within. Model must be not fully visible to every attacker model. Aircraft an Towering models ignore Woods' cover. No unit category restriction for the benefit of Cover.

  • Ruins : need to be wholly within. Model must be not fully visible to every attacker model. Gives +1AP-ranged when standing above 6" of another model. No unit category restriction for the benefit of cover




  • Past Previews :
    Spoiler:


    19/04/2023

    https://www.warhammer-community.com/2023/04/19/transports-are-the-fast-and-flexible-way-to-travel-the-new-edition-in-style/

    Transports Are the Fast and Flexible Way To Travel the New Edition in Style

  • any embarked unit is free to hop out once a transport has moved – provided the vehicle didn’t Advance or Fall Back. They can also shoot, but can’t make a charge, unless they disembark before the vehicle moves

  • open-topped replaced with Firing Deck X : choose one weapon each from a given number of embarked models and the transport will count as if it’s equipped with them for their own shooting attacks.

  • Previously, embarked troops couldn’t benefit from buffs, but now because the transport itself is making the attack, their weapons gain any boosts the vehicle does

  • Rapid Deployment Rule : Some vehicles, however, circumvent the rules entirely with special abilities, such as fast movers like the Impulsor and the Astra Militarum Taurox who can disembark troops even after advancing.

  • The Land Raider reclaims its Assault Ramp – meaning passengers can declare a charge on the same turn they disembark.

  • Minus a couple of exceptions, Space Marine transports no longer care whether a Primaris unit is riding in the back or not. The Rhino, Razorback, and Impulsor are still specialised for certain squad types, and many larger models like Terminators and Gravis-armoured Space Marines still have their own restrictions.

  • Mobile Command Vehicle Rule : Astra Militarum officers can issue orders during the Command Phase from inside a Vehicle

  • Fire Support: re-roll wound for a Unit that disembarked from a Transport this turn






  • 18/04/2023

    https://www.warhammer-community.com/2023/04/18/the-new-edition-of-warhammer-40000-makes-all-the-phases-count/

    The New Edition of Warhammer 40,000 Makes All the Phases Count

  • The Psychic phase and the Morale Phase are now no more

  • psychic powers are used throughout the other phases

  • Smite is used in the the Shooting phase

  • Morale gets sorted in your Command Phase, when you take Battle-shock tests for any units that have taken enough losses.

  • Roll a 2D6 for every unit that’s Below Half-strength – that means they’re a squad with less than half of their starting models, or a single model with less than half of their starting Wounds. You’ll need to roll above your new Leadership characteristic – if you fail, that unit suffers some nasty penalties until your next turn:

  • -OC falls to 0
    -Stratagems cannot be used on that unit
    -if it Falls Back, it must take a test-roll for every model in the unit




    16/04/23

    https://www.warhammer-community.com/2023/04/14/weapons-rules-are-fun-and-flexible-in-the-new-warhammer-40000/


    Weapons Rules Are Fun and Flexible in the New Warhammer 40,000

  • old weapons classifications become weapon abilities

  • A bolt rifle has both the Assault and Heavy abilities

  • auto and stalker bolt rifles, which are now streamlined into the same weapon profile

  • Weapons that shredded through armour on lucky rolls can now share the Devastating Wounds ability instead. This allows them to dish out mortal wounds on a Critical Wound – that’s an unmodified Wound roll of 6
  • .
  • Almost all weapons have had their core statistics changed to help pull their weight in this new, more durable edition – especially those designed to tackle vehicles

  • most guns have not increased in strength, and have often lost a pip of AP

  • the age of “plasma kills everything” is over

  • The melta rifle, for example, gains a bump in Strength and the Melta rule to boost its Damage at short range

  • the Hammerhead’s infamous railgun soars to Strength 20

  • The shuriken cannon picks up Sustained Hits which adds the listed number of extra hits when a Critical Hit is scored – that’s an unmodified Hit roll of 6

  • Twin-linked is back and confers a re-roll to wound






  • 13/04/2023

    https://www.warhammer-community.com/2023/04/13/vehicles-are-even-tougher-in-the-new-edition-of-warhammer-40000/

    Vehicles Are Even Tougher in the New Edition of Warhammer 40,000

    armoured vehicles have been struggling to keep up with the relentless firepower the average Warhammer 40,000 army can throw around. So one major focus in the new edition has been to make those units that should feel tough more meaningfully durable. And that mentality starts with the tanks.

    Almost every vehicle has received a bump in Toughness

    Vehicles are significantly less vulnerable to most infantry-portable weapons, even meltagun blasts.
    the majority of vehicles (and monsters) are beefier than before.

  • Rhino : T7 > T9

  • Repulsor T8> T12

  • Gladiator T8 > T10

  • Storm Speeder T6 > T9


  • Some abilities have been made CORE :

  • Deadly Demise dictates how many mortal wounds are suffered by nearby units when a vehicle explodes

  • Firing Deck how many embarked units can shoot from inside a transport

  • most Vehicles have an OC (Objective Control) of more than 1, meaning that ramming a depleted enemy infantry squad to muscle them off an objective, is an entirely legitimate tactic!


  • Degrading vehicles profiles
    A lot of vehicles used to suffer from characteristics that degraded as they took damage.
  • Most of those now simply suffer a penalty to their hit rolls when reduced to one-third of their starting wounds – leaving big vehicles and monsters in the fight to the last.

  • And many vehicles don’t degrade at all






  • 11/04/2023

    https://www.warhammer-community.com/2023/04/11/leaders-now-join-squads-to-personally-deliver-powerful-boons-in-the-new-warhammer-40000/


    Leaders Now Join Squads To Personally Deliver Powerful Boons in the New Warhammer 40,000

    Leaders
  • Aura bonuses that they used to impart on all nearby troops are gone – in almost all cases the potential to stack them up made balancing the game tricky.

  • your heroes now join a single squad and act as one cohesive unit.

  • the Leader ability unlocks the ability to join a squad

  • This is done before deployment, at the same time as transports are allocated and units are placed in Reserve – the Leader becomes a permanent member of that unit for the whole battle.

  • Each Leader has a short selection of units that they can join, all of them listed on their datasheet

  • Most of the time, only one Leader can join each unit – but as you can see, the Lieutenant is an exception, and can join the same squad as a superior Captain. Plenty of factions have similar low-ranked support Leaders, from Biophagus surgeons to Warlock battle-psykers.

  • The old Look Out, Sir! rule has also been devolved into this new system. Your Leader is kept safe by their Bodyguards, and can usually* be targeted only when everyone else in the squad has breathed their last.


  • Lone Operatives
  • Independent characters may have the Lone Operative ability, which means that they can’t be targeted by ranged attacks unless the attacker is within 12″.

  • Some characters only gain the Lone Operative ability when taking shelter near an appropriate unit




  • 07/04/2023

    https://www.warhammer-community.com/2023/04/07/faction-rules-are-leaner-and-cleaner-in-the-new-edition-of-warhammer-40000/

    Faction Rules Are Leaner and Cleaner in the New Edition of Warhammer 40,000
  • Detachment rules determine how your specific army performs, providing special rules and unique traits, as well as unique Stratagems and Enhancements.

  • Detachments represent a common fighting style for a particular faction

  • more will emerge as new Codexes arrive and armies expand.

  • every Detachment must fit onto a single double-page spread

  • every faction gets an army ability regardless of which Detachment you’re using

  • no Detachment will contain more than six Stratagems

  • -a robust universal menu of 12 Core Stratagems

  • Enhancements replace the old Relics and Warlord Traits, offering a unified list of unique upgrades for each Detachment

  • there are no Core Enhancements – each one is tied to a specific Detachment for a specific faction, tailored to your roster and abilities

  • commanders enhance the unit they’re leading





  • 03/04/2023

    https://www.warhammer-community.com/2023/04/03/warhammer-40000-the-anatomy-of-a-new-datasheet/

    Warhammer 40,000 – The Anatomy of a New Datasheet

    What is OC?

    Objective Control – or OC – is a measure of how well a unit can secure critical locations. each model has an OC characteristic, and to determine who controls an objective, you simply count up the total OC of all models within range. This small but impactful change breathes new life into basic troopstaking and holding ground is a newfound specialty and a clear key to victory.

    Warriors that were previously categorised as Troops will generally have a higher OC than elite units – whose job is not to hold ground, but to strike and move on. Vehicles and Monsters also earn a more substantial OC, so Knights and the like can muscle smaller units off objectives.

    How does Leadership work?

    Leadership is much more impactful in the new edition. Your units’ morale is now gauged with a Battle-shock test. Many factors can force a unit to test for Battle-shock, including being below Half-strength during the Command Phase. Fail and they struggle to capture objectives, use Stratagems, or Fall Back from combat.

    You’ll also notice that Leadership now counts upwards. Our Intercessor has LD 6+ – which is equivalent to his old value of 8.

    What’s happened to WS, BS, S, and A?

    Offensive characteristics are still very much in the game – but they now live on weapon profiles, to help keep datasheets clear and easy to read.

    Weapon profiles explained

    Everything you need to take a shot or a swing at your enemies is now contained in an individual weapon profile – everything from Attacks to Weapon Skill to Damage is all in one place. This means that weapons like power fists, which used to need text to explain that they made things harder to hit, now have their own hit roll statistic.

    Moreover, weapon profiles are tied to individual units – so a chainsword in the hands of a Space Marine is deadlier and easier to hit with than one held by a snivelling cultist.

    The fundamental interactions haven’t changed – equal Strength and Toughness still means you wound on a roll of 4+, and so forth. It’s just that all of a weapon’s quirks are contained in its Core Abilities.

    Many different effects are covered by Core Abilities, from classic weapon types like Assault and Rapid Fire to auto-hits from flame weapons.


    30/03/2023

    https://www.warhammer-community.com/2023/03/30/how-army-building-works-in-the-new-edition-of-warhammer-40000/

    How Army Building Works in the New Edition of Warhammer 40,000
    Troops are no longer a tax you must pay to unlock the units you actually want to take

    Battle Size

    There are now three main army sizes: Incursion (1,000 points), Strike Force (2,000 points), and Onslaught (3,000 points). 500-point games are still perfectly possible, of course, but the Warhammer 40,000 Core Rules are optimised for slightly larger forces than that.

    Power Levels are a thing of the past
    – points are now the order of the day.

    Select Detachment Rules

    Instead of choosing a subfaction or constructing your own, you now choose a single set of Detachment rules for your whole army. These include special abilities, Enhancements, Stratagems, and unit restrictions.

    For instance, you might be playing as the Gladius Task Force of the Adeptus Astartes. Your faction gives you the Oath of Moment army rule (more on this next week!) while your Detachment gives you access to six unique Stratagems – on top of the core group in the main rules – as well as four exclusive Enhancements for your Space Marine characters. It also bags you the Combat Doctrines ability, which allows you to pick from three powerful doctrines during your Command phase.

    If you chose to fight with a different Detachment, you’d replace the Strategems, Enhancements and Combat Doctrines with those of the new Detachment.

    Detachment choice will very rarely be tied to an army colour scheme. So while Ultramarines might be the theoretical and practical masters of the Gladius Task Force, other Chapters can use it too – and the same will be true of many other detachments as they are added into the game. This also means that you can try multiple Detachments with a single army. You are not going to be locked into a single Detachment just because you painted your army blue, or red, or yellow.

    This is an incredibly flexible system that will allow for many weird and wonderful armies in future codexes…

    Pick units

    Using the Faction keyword you picked earlier, you now select the units you want to include in your army, with the following stipulations:

    - You must include at least one CHARACTER
    - You can only include one of each named EPIC HERO
    - You can only include up to three units of each datasheet
    - However, you can include up to six units of each datasheet with the BATTLELINE or DEDICATED TRANSPORT keywords
    - Each CHARACTER can only have one Enhancement, you can’t include more than three Enhancements in total, and these must all be different

    And that’s it!

    Select Warlord

    You now choose one CHARACTER as your leader. They gain the WARLORD keyword, and you’re ready to select your missions.

    Now, no Detachment will ever need more than a couple of pages to cover all its unique rules and restrictions, meaning there will never again be any need to waste time flicking through codex pages to find the right rule.


    27/03/2023

    https://www.warhammer-community.com/2023/03/27/what-does-simplified-not-simple-mean-for-the-new-edition-of-warhammer-40000/


    What Does ‘Simplified Not Simple’ Mean for the New Edition of Warhammer 40,000?
    - Focus on datasheets
    - Simplify the experience
    - Less decisions before the games; few big choices
    - Psychic phase gone, psykers still have their powers on their datasheets
    - Cut down on the downtime
    - Stratagems will be either reactive, or "Cinematic"
    - In 9th the combination of rules, traits, relics, stratagems would boost units beyond what you could expect
    - Combat Patrols will have their own ecosystem, they will be accessible, and games done in an hour


    24/03/2023

    https://www.warhammer-community.com/2023/03/24/10th-edition-warhammer-40000-your-questions-answered/

    10th Edition Warhammer 40,000 – Your Questions Answered!
    Is this a totally new edition?
    the 10th edition of Warhammer 40,000 is a complete revision

    Will it be quicker and easier to play?

    We’ve listened to your feedback and have taken on board all the suggestions we’ve received since the launch of 9th edition. One thing that repeatedly came up was the number of different books you currently need to reference while playing. Thankfully, the days of flicking through multiple books to find the one rule you need are now over! Datasheet Cards for your faction now contain all the information you need to play the game at your fingertips.

    All the rules for your army are now contained exclusively on a single double-page spread, there are also far fewer Stratagems, relics, and special rules to keep track of.
    Universal special rules are back in the game – It doesn’t matter if you’re making a Dimensional Translocation or preparing Death From Below, it’s all a Deep Strike now!

    Core Stratagems are also much more reactive in the new edition. This means there’s less waiting around during your opponent’s turn and plenty more opportunities to attack and defend, even while your opponent is making their moves.

    How easy is it to get into the game?

    we’re introducing the Combat Patrol format. You and your friends can each grab any one Combat Patrol box, download a set of rules that balances your chosen force against any other Combat Patrol box, and you’ll have enough to play a quick, satisfying game against each other straight away.
    It’s a game mode designed to allow new players to get started right with any faction in the game, or for experienced players who want to try a new force without feeling they have to get a huge army.
    We’ll have a lot more on this new way to play in coming articles, including a deeper explanation of how balance is achieved among such disparate forces.

    Are Universal Special Rules returning?

    The short answer is yes! Ultimately the Warhammer Design Studio decided that having the same special rule under a dozen or more separate faction names had become a bit of a barrier to the smooth running of the game – not least because many players simply referred to them by a single name anyway, such as Deep Strike and Feel No Pain.

    Do Vehicle and Monster profiles still degrade as they take damage?

    More or less, though the mechanic has been streamlined. Instead of three separate profiles, there’s a single line on each unit card that still acts like this and explains any penalties incurred when a certain Wounds threshold is reached. More on this soon.

    What is the OC stat?

    OC stands for Objective Control, and it’s a measure of how good a unit is at holding a contested objective. The confusing days of Objective Secured are gone



    This message was edited 38 times. Last update was at 2023/04/22 09:15:07


     
       
    Made in gb
    Regular Dakkanaut






    Siegfriedfr wrote:
    ...most importantly how long it will last before old habits set back in.


    Until the Space Marine codex is released. So about a month.
       
    Made in gb
    Killer Klaivex




    The dark behind the eyes.

    While I will happily celebrate the death knell of Stratagems, I'm unclear as to why fewer relics is being made out to be a positive thing.

    Given how much wargear has been stripped out, relics are one of the few avenues of customisation available to many characters. Why would I want that reduced even more?

     blood reaper wrote:
    I will respect human rights and trans people but I will never under any circumstances use the phrase 'folks' or 'ya'll'. I would rather be killed by firing squad.



     the_scotsman wrote:
    Yeah, when i read the small novel that is the Death Guard unit options and think about resolving the attacks from a melee-oriented min size death guard squad, the thing that springs to mind is "Accessible!"

     Argive wrote:
    GW seems to have a crystal ball and just pulls hairbrained ideas out of their backside for the most part.


     Andilus Greatsword wrote:

    "Prepare to open fire at that towering Wraithknight!"
    "ARE YOU DAFT MAN!?! YOU MIGHT HIT THE MEN WHO COME UP TO ITS ANKLES!!!"


    Akiasura wrote:
    I hate to sound like a serial killer, but I'll be reaching for my friend occam's razor yet again.


     insaniak wrote:

    You're not. If you're worried about your opponent using 'fake' rules, you're having fun the wrong way. This hobby isn't about rules. It's about buying Citadel miniatures.

    Please report to your nearest GW store for attitude readjustment. Take your wallet.
     
       
    Made in gb
    Longtime Dakkanaut





    So far I am cautiously optimistic with what has been revealed of 10th Ed, but it’s still very early. I’m looking forward to learning more.

    Not sure about the proposed Combat Patrol system though. It’ll be interesting how they plan to balance the various boxes. The necron box has a flyer, and the current GSC box doesn’t really have anything to deal with that for example.
       
    Made in ca
    Longtime Dakkanaut





    I really like the fact that I will get to try the new game without spending a penny. Obviously, it won't be the full experience, but it's enough to get a feel for it.

    I like that Crusade continues to exist, though I have concerns.
       
    Made in us
    Ultramarine Chaplain with Hate to Spare






    Adopting a "wait and see" attitude. Will not commit to purchasing anything, and won't change my current painting priorities.

    And They Shall Not Fit Through Doors!!!

    Tyranid Army Progress -- With Classic Warriors!:
    https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/743240.page#9671598 
       
    Made in fr
    Regular Dakkanaut




     vipoid wrote:
    While I will happily celebrate the death knell of Stratagems, I'm unclear as to why fewer relics is being made out to be a positive thing.

    Given how much wargear has been stripped out, relics are one of the few avenues of customisation available to many characters. Why would I want that reduced even more?


    It's part of the bloat that has been plagging the game since Psychic Awakening.

    There comes a breaking point where too many options turn the game into pure math-hammer. 3 relics in index , expanded in codex, would be alright from my pow.
       
    Made in us
    Humming Great Unclean One of Nurgle





    In My Lab

    Given what I've heard, I'm glad my new force of Tau isn't spamming multiple of the same unit.

    Given what I've heard, I'm dreading what it's gonna do to my Nurgle Daemons, since there's so few units available.

    Clocks for the clockmaker! Cogs for the cog throne! 
       
    Made in us
    Confessor Of Sins





    Tacoma, WA, USA

    Siegfriedfr wrote:
    Altho they basically answered all my gripes about 9th, probably trough that huge poll they made 1-2 years ago, i can't shake the feeling that they will still need to sell new rules somehow, but i don't yet see what the "new" business model will be, and most importantly how long it will last before old habits set back in.
    We can only hope the new business models is more model-centric than codex-centric. If unit rules are free, they don't need to spend lots of time printing new codexes to provide rules for new models.

    Also, if the one-in-one-out rule paradigm holds, I expect they will try to sell us books full of optional army builds rather than new layers of rules. Think less 9th Edition Codex and more Regiments of Renown. Codex World Eaters, while a 9th Edition Codex, could be a glimpse of the future. It has a World Eaters army and a Disciples of the Red Angel army that do not share Legion Trait, Stratagems, or Relics. One has Warlord Traits while the other has Daemonic Infusions.
       
    Made in de
    Servoarm Flailing Magos




    Germany

     alextroy wrote:
    Siegfriedfr wrote:
    Altho they basically answered all my gripes about 9th, probably trough that huge poll they made 1-2 years ago, i can't shake the feeling that they will still need to sell new rules somehow, but i don't yet see what the "new" business model will be, and most importantly how long it will last before old habits set back in.
    We can only hope the new business models is more model-centric than codex-centric. If unit rules are free, they don't need to spend lots of time printing new codexes to provide rules for new models.

    Also, if the one-in-one-out rule paradigm holds, I expect they will try to sell us books full of optional army builds rather than new layers of rules. Think less 9th Edition Codex and more Regiments of Renown. Codex World Eaters, while a 9th Edition Codex, could be a glimpse of the future. It has a World Eaters army and a Disciples of the Red Angel army that do not share Legion Trait, Stratagems, or Relics. One has Warlord Traits while the other has Daemonic Infusions.


    Perhaps that 'First Founding' art book they did some time ago is a glimpse of things to come - background and art books independent of the codex, and more, but slimmer codexes like the World Eaters book. That could also be a way how they roll out more updates per army without having huge stretches of 'dead time' where all the other factions get new stuff and you are Dark Eldar
       
    Made in us
    Drop Trooper with Demo Charge




    USA

     alextroy wrote:
    Siegfriedfr wrote:
    Altho they basically answered all my gripes about 9th, probably trough that huge poll they made 1-2 years ago, i can't shake the feeling that they will still need to sell new rules somehow, but i don't yet see what the "new" business model will be, and most importantly how long it will last before old habits set back in.
    We can only hope the new business models is more model-centric than codex-centric. If unit rules are free, they don't need to spend lots of time printing new codexes to provide rules for new models.

    Also, if the one-in-one-out rule paradigm holds, I expect they will try to sell us books full of optional army builds rather than new layers of rules. Think less 9th Edition Codex and more Regiments of Renown. Codex World Eaters, while a 9th Edition Codex, could be a glimpse of the future. It has a World Eaters army and a Disciples of the Red Angel army that do not share Legion Trait, Stratagems, or Relics. One has Warlord Traits while the other has Daemonic Infusions.

    I'm glad I'm not the only one seeing the writing on the wall. They slipped during the Adepticon announcement... "All the rules will be on one page so all the rules to play Ultramarines will be on a single sheet, to play your first company you'll-" and then he got cut off by the over excited Brit.
    They're just going to make a million different ways to play the same factions. It's formations all over again.
       
    Made in de
    Servoarm Flailing Magos




    Germany

    Uptonius wrote:
     alextroy wrote:
    Siegfriedfr wrote:
    Altho they basically answered all my gripes about 9th, probably trough that huge poll they made 1-2 years ago, i can't shake the feeling that they will still need to sell new rules somehow, but i don't yet see what the "new" business model will be, and most importantly how long it will last before old habits set back in.
    We can only hope the new business models is more model-centric than codex-centric. If unit rules are free, they don't need to spend lots of time printing new codexes to provide rules for new models.

    Also, if the one-in-one-out rule paradigm holds, I expect they will try to sell us books full of optional army builds rather than new layers of rules. Think less 9th Edition Codex and more Regiments of Renown. Codex World Eaters, while a 9th Edition Codex, could be a glimpse of the future. It has a World Eaters army and a Disciples of the Red Angel army that do not share Legion Trait, Stratagems, or Relics. One has Warlord Traits while the other has Daemonic Infusions.

    I'm glad I'm not the only one seeing the writing on the wall. They slipped during the Adepticon announcement... "All the rules will be on one page so all the rules to play Ultramarines will be on a single sheet, to play your first company you'll-" and then he got cut off by the over excited Brit.
    They're just going to make a million different ways to play the same factions. It's formations all over again.


    It will probably end up working like AoS with scrolls, alliances, regiments of renown and whatever else they're having, it seems to be tolerable enough. Proof of the pudding will be in the tournament scene anyway, if they -again- screw it up and have clearly superior 'formations' or whatever with degenerate bonuses the tournament cracks will soon enough find out.
       
    Made in pl
    Wicked Warp Spider





    What I’m the most interested in, is whether the Combat Patrol mode will be adapted or rejected by the community as an additional/alternate tournament format or pick-up „default”. For long I have been an advocate for such fixed lists approach to competition as it can completely level the field, measure the actual gaming skill AND can easily be fine tuned in finite number of events to achieve a proper level of balance. But since it completely removes list building I expect quite fierce opposition from some, if not most competitive players.

    This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2023/03/26 19:44:10


     
       
    Made in it
    Growlin' Guntrukk Driver with Killacannon





    Italy

    Siegfriedfr wrote:
     vipoid wrote:
    While I will happily celebrate the death knell of Stratagems, I'm unclear as to why fewer relics is being made out to be a positive thing.

    Given how much wargear has been stripped out, relics are one of the few avenues of customisation available to many characters. Why would I want that reduced even more?


    It's part of the bloat that has been plagging the game since Psychic Awakening.

    There comes a breaking point where too many options turn the game into pure math-hammer. 3 relics in index , expanded in codex, would be alright from my pow.


    Yeah I was hoping the 3 Relics would be an index thing and there would be more in the codex. Not only is it more fun to build your own HQ with relics as Vipoid mentions, but also there's a lot of fluff built into some of those relics over the years that I'd be disappointed if they went away.
       
    Made in fr
    Regular Dakkanaut




    nou wrote:
    What I’m the most interested in, is whether the Combat Patrol mode will be adapted or rejected by the community as an additional/alternate tournament format or pick-up „default”. For long I have been an advocate for such fixed lists approach to competition as it can completely level the field, measure the actual gaming skill AND can easily be fine tuned in finite number of events to achieve a proper level of balance. But since it completely removes list building I expect quite fierce opposition from some, if not most competitive players.


    The WAAC crowd obsessed with math-hammer and buying FOTM minis to shine in tournaments will definitely despise Combat Patrols, who will probably end up as a store-friendly/beer-and-pretzels level of play. Which is good !

    This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2023/03/26 21:31:25


     
       
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    Siegfriedfr wrote:
    nou wrote:
    What I’m the most interested in, is whether the Combat Patrol mode will be adapted or rejected by the community as an additional/alternate tournament format or pick-up „default”. For long I have been an advocate for such fixed lists approach to competition as it can completely level the field, measure the actual gaming skill AND can easily be fine tuned in finite number of events to achieve a proper level of balance. But since it completely removes list building I expect quite fierce opposition from some, if not most competitive players.


    The WAAC crowd obsessed with math-hammer and buying FOMO minis to shine in tournaments will definitely despise Combat Patrols, who will probably end up as a store-friendly/beer-and-pretzels level of play. Which is good !


    Looking at how index era 8th caused a large influx of new players, who didn't know a thing about all things lost from 3rd-7th world, then there is a chance, that 10th will cause the same wave of fresh blood. Many of those players will start in C.P. mode. If C.P. will be properly balanced, then I don't see how you can then convince them, that "git gud" attitude of seal clubbers is a "proper way to play". So perhaps not right out of the gate, but I see a possibility, that those new players, nurtured in a ballanced environment of C.P. will refuse to take a beating after beating from netlisters and enforce a change by simply not participating in the old, toxic habits of the community. We'll see.

    Additionally, the only thing GW has to do to keep C.P. fresh is what they already do anyway - keep rotating C.P. boxes. There is a huge potential to fix a lot of issues with 40K in this. You can then introduce higher point level boxes/fixed lists for those in the rut of "40k is only proper at 2k pts" and voila, you have a trully balanced, properly competitive 40k format and everything else gets moved to narrative/open mode. GW wins as it is them who control supply and demand, so can precisely set production quotas and cut costs. Competitive players because they finally get balance (though I fear many won't like what it really means) and narrative/casual/beer&pretzels players, because they finally get their distinctly separate playground.
       
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     JNAProductions wrote:
    Given what I've heard, I'm glad my new force of Tau isn't spamming multiple of the same unit.

    Given what I've heard, I'm dreading what it's gonna do to my Nurgle Daemons, since there's so few units available.


    Apart from battleline becoming max 6 not that it changes. No 4 beast of nurgle before either. 3 in 10th, 3 in 9th

    2024 painted/bought: 109/109 
       
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    Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.

     vipoid wrote:
    While I will happily celebrate the death knell of Stratagems, I'm unclear as to why fewer relics is being made out to be a positive thing.

    Given how much wargear has been stripped out, relics are one of the few avenues of customisation available to many characters. Why would I want that reduced even more?
    Because GW makes their changes by swings of a giant pendulum and paradigm shifts. In 8th it was "bespoke bespoke bespoke!". For 10th it's "everything on one page". So we get to suffer having reduced relics on top of virtually no options. And you think what's about to happen to Relics is bad? Imagine what's about to happen to Chaos Legions, Craftworlds, Orky Klanz and everything else that isn't a Loyalist Space Marine.

    Fun™!

     alextroy wrote:
    If unit rules are free...
    Rules are not going to be free. The Indices will be free, because they're invalidating every Codex in the game and want to garner some good will rather than make everyone buy 4 different Index books all over again. But make no mistake, once those are done and dusted, so is the free ride. Codices will begin to appear as normal, hardback and expensive as ever.

    I'd even bet that the "free rules" will be incomplete, missing vital things like army construction rules, scenarios and even terrain rules. So, sure, you can technically play the game with the free rules, but if you want all the rules, better get that wallet out!


    This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2023/03/26 21:55:23


    Industrial Insanity - My Terrain Blog
    "GW really needs to understand 'Less is more' when it comes to AoS." - Wha-Mu-077

     
       
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    Tacoma, WA, USA

    I don't think they will be missing army construction rules
    Army selection is equally straightforward: pick a faction, a warlord, and the units you like (just no more than three of any one type*), and stay within your points limit. That’s it!

    You no longer have to fit your army into a force organisation chart, or compromise on the army you really want. It’s a simple and liberating system, and opens the door to all kinds of fun, thematic or unusual armies.

    These big changes to rules and armies mean that the current range of codexes are being retired. The rules in them don’t work with the new edition, but remember that the rules for all your units will be available free online at launch.
    Note the * is that Battleline units will be up to 6 rather than 3 of one type.
       
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    Regular Dakkanaut






     alextroy wrote:
    If unit rules are free, they don't need to spend lots of time printing new codexes to provide rules for new models.

    If you want a 40k game with actually free rules rather than the bait-and-switch GW will give everyone *yet again*, may I suggest OPR?
       
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    Tampa, FL

    nou wrote:
    Siegfriedfr wrote:
    nou wrote:
    What I’m the most interested in, is whether the Combat Patrol mode will be adapted or rejected by the community as an additional/alternate tournament format or pick-up „default”. For long I have been an advocate for such fixed lists approach to competition as it can completely level the field, measure the actual gaming skill AND can easily be fine tuned in finite number of events to achieve a proper level of balance. But since it completely removes list building I expect quite fierce opposition from some, if not most competitive players.


    The WAAC crowd obsessed with math-hammer and buying FOMO minis to shine in tournaments will definitely despise Combat Patrols, who will probably end up as a store-friendly/beer-and-pretzels level of play. Which is good !


    Looking at how index era 8th caused a large influx of new players, who didn't know a thing about all things lost from 3rd-7th world, then there is a chance, that 10th will cause the same wave of fresh blood. Many of those players will start in C.P. mode. If C.P. will be properly balanced, then I don't see how you can then convince them, that "git gud" attitude of seal clubbers is a "proper way to play". So perhaps not right out of the gate, but I see a possibility, that those new players, nurtured in a ballanced environment of C.P. will refuse to take a beating after beating from netlisters and enforce a change by simply not participating in the old, toxic habits of the community. We'll see.

    Additionally, the only thing GW has to do to keep C.P. fresh is what they already do anyway - keep rotating C.P. boxes. There is a huge potential to fix a lot of issues with 40K in this. You can then introduce higher point level boxes/fixed lists for those in the rut of "40k is only proper at 2k pts" and voila, you have a trully balanced, properly competitive 40k format and everything else gets moved to narrative/open mode. GW wins as it is them who control supply and demand, so can precisely set production quotas and cut costs. Competitive players because they finally get balance (though I fear many won't like what it really means) and narrative/casual/beer&pretzels players, because they finally get their distinctly separate playground.
    The irony here is combat patrol would actually be balanced because everything is set in stone and identical. Which just goes to prove that the cries of balance are really BS Because what they really want is to come up with the killer combo.

    Honestly I'm not overly thrilled with the combat Patrol idea not because it doesn't sound cool but because in my opinion it should be a better way to play 500 point games not use exactly this box.

    - Wayne
    Formerly WayneTheGame 
       
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    Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.

    Everything identical? That doesn't sound fun at all...

    Industrial Insanity - My Terrain Blog
    "GW really needs to understand 'Less is more' when it comes to AoS." - Wha-Mu-077

     
       
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    Tampa, FL

     H.B.M.C. wrote:
    Everything identical? That doesn't sound fun at all...
    but it sounds balanced, and the real test then becomes how good a general you are, not how good your list building "skill" is...

    Or was that a chess reference?

    This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2023/03/26 23:25:50


    - Wayne
    Formerly WayneTheGame 
       
    Made in us
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    Wayniac wrote:
     H.B.M.C. wrote:
    Everything identical? That doesn't sound fun at all...
    but it sounds balanced, and the real rest then becomes how good a general you are, not how good your list building "skill" is...
    Sounds terrible. Building lists is incredibly engaging.

    And They Shall Not Fit Through Doors!!!

    Tyranid Army Progress -- With Classic Warriors!:
    https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/743240.page#9671598 
       
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    My two cents,

    I love everything that they have been talking about with 10th so far. I am happy that it looks like they are keeping the core 9th mechanics (which I think have been the best yet as to core mechanics) with the only changes the physic phase (little worried at a TS player, but could be implemented well) and the moral phase, which was the worst of the 9th mechanics. I really like the idea of one page army rules, but if you want to play a sub-faction you pick up a different one page of army rules without having to remember what applies to what. I hope the codexes are really an opportunity to flush out sub-factions/formations with their own army rules. I am a little worried about how open army building will be, as whenever they loosen that up it seems to cause an issue. I suspect the competitive play rules will probably tighten that up, as they did in 9th.

    What I hope to see in 10th specifically that has not really been covered:

    Some way of preventing multiple stacking of buffs on a single unit. Something like call all buffs from no matter where (strats, prayers, powers etc.) "Blessings" and units can't be subject to more than one at a time. The stacking of buffs was, to me, the main thing that really hurt 9th edition.

    Like I said above, many different "army rules" for different formations/sub-factions.

    More reactive abilities like that one they previewed for Termagants.

    Everything they have been talking about implemented well.....duh lol.

    What I hope not to see in 10th edition

    Codex wide rules that affect each "army rules" in a codex (i.e. doctrines, wanton, fate dice etc.). This goes with the to many buffs stacking problem. I think a huge error was when they added all the codex rules to the detachment abilities so units were subject to codex rules, detachment rules, buffs from characters, stratagems and so on. It was to much, and I hope they keep it paired down to one (maybe with minor sub parts) "army rule" per sub-faction/formation that changes depending on the sub-faction/formation that a player uses with no over arching Codex wide buff that applies to all "army rules" in a codex, except maybe like small purchasable upgrades like marks of chaos, chapter master, exarch powers or other faction abilities that are akin to those.

    Any mechanic that does "X to hit automatically wounds" army wide. As a person who extensively used Hail of Doom, and have been on the other side of it against Guard and Votann, this is the absolute worst mechanic they ever applied army wide. It is ok when limited to like one character with a relic, or maybe one unit that is pointed to reflect the ability, but army wide this was the WORST rule. I hope it never comes back.

    Faction specific secondaries (if secondaries remain a thing in competitive play). Again one of the major problems with ninth had to do with faction secondaries for some factions being to easy and some to hard. Everyone should just pick from the same set. Also no more abhor the witch. That is just free points against TS and GK.

    Physic powers reduced down to mostly mediocre shooting attacks outside of a couple that are absolutely must take good. This is what happened in 3-5th when most powers were just worse shooting attacks, and the only ones that were worth a damn were always takes, like lash, doom, guide. I hope things like doom and guide are still there, but hopefully other powers will be usable and the shooting attacks will actually be worth taking.

    Different rules and stats for what are the same unit across different codex (i.e. Land raiders being T9 in CSM but not TS etc.) It is really easy to fix that with digital data sheets (crap, I could fix that now with my PDF editor in like an hour).

    Hopefully 10th will be as fun as I had playing 9th, and be even better.




       
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    The dark hollows of Kentucky

    *looks at 10th edition article*

    Yeeeehhhh .......you guys have fun with this. Personally, I'm so glad that I switched to HH.
       
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    Wicked Warp Spider





    H.B.M.C. wrote:Everything identical? That doesn't sound fun at all...


    Insectum7 wrote:
    Wayniac wrote:
     H.B.M.C. wrote:
    Everything identical? That doesn't sound fun at all...
    but it sounds balanced, and the real rest then becomes how good a general you are, not how good your list building "skill" is...
    Sounds terrible. Building lists is incredibly engaging.


    Oh, but you will still very much be able to play freeform 40K. GW went all in and removed virtually all restrictions from listbuilding - this is now as close as possible to the dreaded 7th ed unbound as rule of three allows. Remember how everybody ridiculed unbound as devoid of any understanding of game design and balance? It is the only way of list building now and anyone is free to turn his min-max game to 11 or build the niche army he always dreamt of. But in doing so he now will have to accept, that freedom comes at a cost of being vastly less balanced than fixed lists format.

    So if C.P. ever grows mainstream, everybody will have to show their true colours. That is IMO the greatest reveal about 10th to date - taking the skeleton of fake strive for balance out of the closet and puting it on display.
       
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    In My Lab

    You do realize that people can have multiple desires, right?

    I want 40k to be balanced.
    I also want 40k to have customization, and lots of it.

    I understand that these are, if not mutually exclusive, still hard to get together. But that doesn’t invalidate desires.

    Clocks for the clockmaker! Cogs for the cog throne! 
       
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     Gadzilla666 wrote:
    *looks at 10th edition article*

    Yeeeehhhh .......you guys have fun with this. Personally, I'm so glad that I switched to HH.


    This post right here is perhaps one of the greatest examples of marine privilege in 40k...

    This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2023/03/27 00:26:03


       
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    Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.

    Combat Patrol is a "method of play" dreamt up by a marketing department who realised the "Open Play" was terribly flimsy concept, but without a third play method "Two Ways to Play" just sounds anemic.

    It's especially telling as it requires virtually no new product outlay than they already have, as they already produce Combat Patrols*. Hell, I'd put money on the notion that the brief was "Must only use existing boxed army SKUs" and that it specifically had to require no further accessories.

    I get that GW wants to lower the barrier to entry, but this whole notion of a "balanced" game that just comes in a single box is marketing hogwash. Even putting aside my rampant levels of cynicism, I just astonished that there are people here falling for it.

    *The only 'new' product would come from replacing existing Combat Patrols, such as the Tyranid one once the new Gaunts hit.

     Hellebore wrote:
    marine privilege
    That's not a thing. Don't try to make that a thing.


    This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2023/03/27 00:29:18


    Industrial Insanity - My Terrain Blog
    "GW really needs to understand 'Less is more' when it comes to AoS." - Wha-Mu-077

     
       
     
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