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Made in mk
Spawn of Chaos




Warhammer 40K Universe

Never in my entire life have I've seen a BA fall to Chaos. I've even searched through the internet if there is a Chapter or a number of Blood Angels that fell to Chaos, especially Khorne but to no avail. The only thing that I come across is that they're "incorruptible" because of the Red Thirst and Black Rage. Also because there's pure favoritism and bias from the writers towards BA and Sanguinius and this is how majority of the fans perceive them. The only Blood Angel that ever fell to Chaos was Meros only to save Sanguinius (talk about Sanguinius trying to take every offer from the Chaos Gods). Meros died and his body was possessed by a daemon of Khorne known as the Red Angel.

Except for that I don't know anything. There's also a misconception that the SoB are "incorruptible", while the only ones who are incorruptible are the Custodians, SoS and Grey Knights.

   
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10k years of warfare post-Heresy and not a single Blood Angel falling to Chaos isn't likely. GW just doesn't highlight every single time something like that happens, choosing to focus on entire Companies or Chapters falling rather than squads or individuals.
   
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Spawn of Chaos




Warhammer 40K Universe

 Gert wrote:
10k years of warfare post-Heresy and not a single Blood Angel falling to Chaos isn't likely. GW just doesn't highlight every single time something like that happens, choosing to focus on entire Companies or Chapters falling rather than squads or individuals.

More like they don't want to from my perspective (be whatever it is, individual, squad, chapter or company). The most traitors that came out post-heresy are descendants from Guilliman. IDK about the other Primarchs descendants falling to Chaos. But the excuse for the BA is that they're too loyal and cannot fall to Chaos, is absolute nonsense.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2023/04/13 18:42:37


 
   
Made in gb
Ridin' on a Snotling Pump Wagon






Careful on the profiling there.

Most 2nd and subsequent Foundings seem to come from Ultramarines Geneseed. So of course, they’d make up the highest percentage of any tempted by Chaos.

What you want to look at it whether or not such turncoats are a disproportionate percentage.

Example. Let’s say, and this is numbers out my bum, 65% of all Astartes are from Ultramarine Geneseed Stock originally.

Now, if 50% of all Chaos Converts come from those Chapters, it’s still the highest single percentage - but would still be a disproportionately lower instance of such corruption.

Always look to the proportionate. Therein lies the fuller picture.

You’d then need to consider where is each Chapter Operating. It’s entirely feasible, given the size of The Imperium, some Chapters have never directly fought Chaos forces beyond the odd uprising. Some may have, due to their Chapter Planet’s location, solely have waged war on Orks. Without direct, let alone sustained contact with Chaos, any of those turning coat would be a significantly greater concern than a Chapter known to focus its efforts against Chaos Forces, especially those plunging into the Eye of Terror regularly, where such corruption is, ultimately, to be expected.

   
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Tacoma, WA, USA

I think it has less todo with Blood Angels being incorruptible and more to do with them falling to the Black Rage first. How does one fall to Chaos when visions of your Primarchs death interpose themselves over your reality, turning you into a rage machine that kills everything you can get your hands on?

You've fallen my friend, just not to Chaos.
   
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Gargantuan Gargant






I'm pretty sure in Angron's new Red Angel novel there's a traitor Blood Angel that wants to become a World Eater in the story.
   
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Pestilent Plague Marine with Blight Grenade





There was a former Blood Angel who had joined the World Eaters featured in the novel Kharn: The Red Path. As to the Black Rage, yes, they may start seeing Horus everywhere, but because of that, they lose all sense of rationality. I can easily see a Death Company Marine in the grips of the Rage being duped into murdering their own comrades by a Chaos follower, then have their mind twisted to where the idea of avenging Sanguinius' death at the hands of Horus becomes moot and is gradually replaced with just a general bloodlust to kill anyone, with Horus being just a meaningless concept that goes through their head. The Blood Angels would not accept such nihilistic destruction, but a group like the World Eaters or Crimson Slaughter would. An undercover Alpha Legionnaire I think could pull this off. Also, I can see a Blood Angel or a member one of their successor chapters becoming tired of trying to keep their thirst and rage in check and just going the easy path of giving into their hunger. I think that the Flesh Eaters are pretty much this and have almost been excommunicated several times, while a Flesh Tearer could be at risk of this as well.
   
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I might be the only one who remembers the Rafen trilogy, but Arkio?

The thing about 40k is that no one person can grasp the fullness of it.

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 RaptorusRex wrote:
I might be the only one who remembers the Rafen trilogy, but Arkio?


I forgot about Rafen. It was both funny and sad seeing only Rafen and Mephisto being the only sane individuals in the entire chapter.
   
Made in fi
Buttons Should Be Brass, Not Gold!






I too was thinking that if you'd want to corrupt a Son Of Sanguinius, you'd start with the Fallen, or at least with someone on the brink of falling..

But I dont pay attention to ofc lore so YMMV
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





Don't the Blood Drinkers use a trick they learned from a daemon to stave off the Black Rage? That's pretty corrupt even if they're still loyalists.


ATTENTION
. Psychic tests are unfluffy. Your longing for AV is understandable but misguided. Your chapter doesn't need a separate codex. Doctrines should go away. Being a "troop" means nothing. This has been a cranky service announcement. You may now resume your regularly scheduled arguing.
 
   
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Bloodquest had Chaos Blood Angels.
   
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 ArcaneHorror wrote:
 RaptorusRex wrote:
I might be the only one who remembers the Rafen trilogy, but Arkio?


I forgot about Rafen. It was both funny and sad seeing only Rafen and Mephisto being the only sane individuals in the entire chapter.


There's a reason those books are out of the few BL publications to be soft non-canon.

The thing about 40k is that no one person can grasp the fullness of it.

My 95th Praetorian Rifles.

SW Successors

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Made in gb
Preparing the Invasion of Terra






Since when? The Blood Angels civil war isn't openly talked about for good reason but it still happened. It was a contributing factor to Dante calling a conclave of the 9th Legion Successors to ask for geneseed and initiates to rebuild the Chapter.
   
Made in mk
Spawn of Chaos




Warhammer 40K Universe

 alextroy wrote:
I think it has less todo with Blood Angels being incorruptible and more to do with them falling to the Black Rage first. How does one fall to Chaos when visions of your Primarchs death interpose themselves over your reality, turning you into a rage machine that kills everything you can get your hands on?

You've fallen my friend, just not to Chaos.

And that's the biggest reason to fall to Khorne. The Black Rage and the Red Thirst is enough for the BA to fall to Khorne, it's because how the lore is written, they don't. They're absolute mindless killing machines more powerful than the WE (which they always were). Khorne has always favored the BA and Sanguinius and not Angron and the WE.
 ArcaneHorror wrote:
There was a former Blood Angel who had joined the World Eaters featured in the novel Kharn: The Red Path. As to the Black Rage, yes, they may start seeing Horus everywhere, but because of that, they lose all sense of rationality. I can easily see a Death Company Marine in the grips of the Rage being duped into murdering their own comrades by a Chaos follower, then have their mind twisted to where the idea of avenging Sanguinius' death at the hands of Horus becomes moot and is gradually replaced with just a general bloodlust to kill anyone, with Horus being just a meaningless concept that goes through their head. The Blood Angels would not accept such nihilistic destruction, but a group like the World Eaters or Crimson Slaughter would. An undercover Alpha Legionnaire I think could pull this off. Also, I can see a Blood Angel or a member one of their successor chapters becoming tired of trying to keep their thirst and rage in check and just going the easy path of giving into their hunger. I think that the Flesh Eaters are pretty much this and have almost been excommunicated several times, while a Flesh Tearer could be at risk of this as well.

I'm curious as to who this BA is.

This is where the bias comes from my perspective, the WE had both traitors and loyal marines during the HH with the Butchers Nails while the BA who have the Red Thirst and Black Rage (which I assume is worse than the Nails and always has been) never surrendered to Khorne.
   
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There actually was a fallen Blood Angel in a short story featuring Kharn, it was called Chosen of Khorne I think. He was dragged around by a Chaos warlord in chais and only released in time of battle upon his enemies.
   
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Warhammer 40K Universe

 tauist wrote:
I too was thinking that if you'd want to corrupt a Son Of Sanguinius, you'd start with the Fallen, or at least with someone on the brink of falling..

But I dont pay attention to ofc lore so YMMV

But they don't, that's the whole thing, which is clear favoritism from the authors, at first I was like "what could it be". There are many examples not just the BA, where the loyalists legions and Primarchs, many of who such as Dorn, are "too loyal" and thus cannot fall to Chaos, which contradicts canon, as the only ones who are incorruptible are the Emperor, Custodians, SoS and Grey Knights.

Many BA and Sanguinius apologists argue that they're incorruptible and perfect because of X reasons while they keep forgetting that Sanguinius was open to any offer of the Chaos Gods just so he can "cure" his sons weakness. We have a similar situation with the TS and Magnus where Magnus did everything to "save" his sons but ultimately dooming himself and them in the process. Obviously Sanguinius didn't fall because of him being established as a loyalist, serving a purpose in the story, but if he wasn't, the same tragedy would've befallen him and his sons.
   
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 F.E.A.R. wrote:
And that's the biggest reason to fall to Khorne. The Black Rage and the Red Thirst is enough for the BA to fall to Khorne, it's because how the lore is written, they don't. They're absolute mindless killing machines more powerful than the WE (which they always were). Khorne has always favored the BA and Sanguinius and not Angron and the WE.

That's just not true. Khorne had Angron and the World Eaters pegged before they even turned Traitor whereas it was Erebus and Kyriss who sought to turn the Blood Angels to the service of Chaos. Sanguinius and the 9th falling to the Ruinous Powers would be a boon to whichever God gained their fealty but it wasn't a case of Khorne calling dibs as it did with the World Eaters and Angron.
Horus wanted Sanguinius dead firstly because Horus believed he would never succumb and secondly, of all the Primarchs, only Sanguinius could be a true rival to his position as Warmaster and then Emperor. Likewise, Ka'Bandha is the Bane of Angels because he seeks to destroy them, not turn them to Khorne.
The Angels aren't any stronger or more deadly than the World Eaters when both are in the thrall of their given madness either.

I'm curious as to who this BA is.

This is where the bias comes from my perspective, the WE had both traitors and loyal marines during the HH with the Butchers Nails while the BA who have the Red Thirst and Black Rage (which I assume is worse than the Nails and always has been) never surrendered to Khorne.

You assume a lot. The Red Thirst was controllable and it rarely surfaced during the Crusade era, as Sanguinius had taught the Legion how to master it by embracing wisdom and art, which is where the Blood Angels get their reputation for beauty from. The Thirst could also be sated in simple ways such as the mixing of blood with wine. It's always there but far more controllable.

The Nails on the other hand have no off switch. They bite and grind at all times when implanted in a host and it takes the utmost will of an Astartes to maintain control in a combat situation. Even outside of combat the nails constantly feed the aggression centres of the brain, urging the host to strike out at the nearest individual and tear them apart.
The reason there were Loyalist World Eaters is the same reason there were other Loyalist-Traitors as well as Traitor-Loyalists, personal choice. Many within the Traitor Legions were true to the Emperor and did not succumb to the corruption spread by the Warrior Lodges or simply didn't care to fight for their fathers and Horus. With the Loyalists, it is much the same where some chose to follow Horus as they hated their Primarch, thought the Emperor had abandoned them, or simply saw Horus as a stronger master than the one they currently served.
   
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As others have kind of already mentioned, there's also the hat-on-a-hat factor.

If you want to tell a story about Blood Angels falling to blood lust, involving Khorne is kind of redundant and arguably less interesting/satisfying that the tragic notes you get with the black rage. If you want to tell a story about a marine falling to Khorne, having him already full of red thirst/black rage related blood lust removes a lot of the will he won't he element and kind of comes across as the marine falling to chaos just because instead of giving him his own unique story or path to damnation.

So maybe it's just hard to mix the black rage and Khorne corruption in a way that's actually interesting/satisfying?

There's also maybe an anti-synergy there. Where if you start getting those early Khorne impulses to be extra aggro, it tends to just make you go full black rage before you can be "properly" corrupted. And then you're being shipped off to die in your next fight, so not much of a villain arc to be seen.


ATTENTION
. Psychic tests are unfluffy. Your longing for AV is understandable but misguided. Your chapter doesn't need a separate codex. Doctrines should go away. Being a "troop" means nothing. This has been a cranky service announcement. You may now resume your regularly scheduled arguing.
 
   
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Northumberland

Yeah I agree with Wyldhunt, I would say it's more a narrative thing. The Khorne mad crazy angel isn't terribly interesting when you have the steady succumb to the black rage. You get much better stories from Successor chapters who are Imperial but have particularly gruesome ways of dealing with the thirst. Are they truly your allies? Do they really differ from Chaos etc etc

A Blood Angel falling to Slaanesh would be a bit too underwired nightdresses and opera glasses vampire. A Nurgle Blood Angel that doesn't compute, a fat bloke necking blood out an IV drip bag?

Maybe a Tzeentch Angel? That's probably the best option but blood red and azure blue? I think not.

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 Olthannon wrote:
Maybe a Tzeentch Angel? That's probably the best option but blood red and azure blue? I think not.

A certain other legion also changed their colors from red to blue to match their new master... Blue blood has its own meaning to it, too. I could see a fun story there.
   
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Contagious Dreadnought of Nurgle





 Olthannon wrote:
Yeah I agree with Wyldhunt, I would say it's more a narrative thing. The Khorne mad crazy angel isn't terribly interesting when you have the steady succumb to the black rage. You get much better stories from Successor chapters who are Imperial but have particularly gruesome ways of dealing with the thirst. Are they truly your allies? Do they really differ from Chaos etc etc

A Blood Angel falling to Slaanesh would be a bit too underwired nightdresses and opera glasses vampire. A Nurgle Blood Angel that doesn't compute, a fat bloke necking blood out an IV drip bag?

Maybe a Tzeentch Angel? That's probably the best option but blood red and azure blue? I think not.


With Nurgle you could easily spin the agony of the eternal strife to NOT fall to the black rage. You could argue that the red thirst is a genetic desease of the Blood Angels.
Nurgle isn't just about fat blokes, though from GWs miniatures it's hard to tell admittedly .
   
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UK

Pretty sure a number of Lamenters turned traitor with the whole Badab kerfuffle.

 
   
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Knights of blood are regarded as renegade SMs and they are BA successors, so they should count.

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Rule of thumb: No one is incorruptible.

   
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I can understand why Sons of Sanguinius wont fall to ruinous powers because of the "is it compelling storytelling?" angle, but that only applies to BL books. In my personal headcanon, BL lore is trash and I make the rules. There are no absolutes.
   
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 tauist wrote:
I can understand why Sons of Sanguinius wont fall to ruinous powers because of the "is it compelling storytelling?" angle, but that only applies to BL books. In my personal headcanon, BL lore is trash and I make the rules. There are no absolutes.

This is a strange take, considering all of the instances of Chaos Blood Angels which have been mentioned from Black Library publications in this thread...

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2023/04/16 15:58:40


 
   
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Morally-Flexible Malleus Hearing Whispers




I'm sure this has already been noted, but the Knights of Blood would be heretical demons by any one outside of the Blood Angels, they essentially gave over their humanity to base canibalism and murder, so they are in effect Chaos Marines in everything but warp taint. They have cast off the dictates of their emperor for sating their lust for blood. They're cultists essentially.

I mean, the Black rage is essentially the same as Falling to Chaos. It's why most BA view the members of the Death Company as apostates and disgusting.
   
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The Knights did split in two, with some staying Loyal and others falling to Khorne with both claiming the name.
   
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Thank you Gert, I was unaware they had outright claimed allegience to a Chaos god. Does that invalidate my point though? Because they weren't "corrupted", they made a willing choice?

Anyway, Aren't GK the ones who are literally incorruptable?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2023/04/17 11:15:10


 
   
 
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