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Made in us
Dakka Veteran





I'm still thoroughly confused by 10th.

Are legends models going to get a rules update or is this the final nail in the coffin for like half of my orks?

"Iz got a plan. We line up. Yell Waaagh, den krump them in the face. Den when we're done, we might yell Waagh one more time." Warboss Gutstompa 
   
Made in au
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.

They said they'd get updated.

Now we have to wonder what they'll forget to update, like Chaos Lords with Jump Packs.

Industrial Insanity - My Terrain Blog
"GW really needs to understand 'Less is more' when it comes to AoS." - Wha-Mu-077

 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka




NE Ohio, USA

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
They said they'd get updated.

Now we have to wonder what they'll forget to update, like Chaos Lords with Jump Packs.


Why don't you use an example that was actually forgotten - like the Las/plas Razorback?
   
Made in au
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.

ccs wrote:
Why don't you use an example that was actually forgotten - like the Las/plas Razorback?
Because I wasn't using an example of something they have forgotten, only what I expect them to forget.

Industrial Insanity - My Terrain Blog
"GW really needs to understand 'Less is more' when it comes to AoS." - Wha-Mu-077

 
   
Made in us
Resolute Ultramarine Honor Guard





I'm curious if we'll see old versions of (relatively) newly replaced characters (First born Calgar/Azrael/etc) if they'll be legitimately forgotten or if they'll be "overlooked" after there was an uproar when they were skipped.

My WHFB armies were Bretonians and Tomb Kings. 
   
Made in in
[MOD]
Otiose in a Niche






Hyderabad, India

Didn't they say Legends were a one off not to be updated?

When did they say Legends would carry through to 10th?

Is there hope still for my IG vets? And all my command squads? And my Storm Trooper/Scions?

 
   
Made in de
Servoarm Flailing Magos




Germany

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
Didn't they say Legends were a one off not to be updated?

When did they say Legends would carry through to 10th?

Is there hope still for my IG vets? And all my command squads? And my Storm Trooper/Scions?


Their social media person was asked this on twitter, and said that Legends and Imperial Armour would get updated for 10th 'soon' after the release.
   
Made in gb
Ridin' on a Snotling Pump Wagon






On Legends in general?

How many kits would it take to bring them all back into the game proper via each forthcoming Codex?

   
Made in us
Resolute Ultramarine Honor Guard





 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
On Legends in general?

How many kits would it take to bring them all back into the game proper via each forthcoming Codex?


Depends one what you mean proper. Many of the legends are characters that need(ed) to be converted.

My WHFB armies were Bretonians and Tomb Kings. 
   
Made in gb
Ridin' on a Snotling Pump Wagon






For characters, either as individual models, or a multi-option sprue, akin to the old Space Marine Captain.

Not going anywhere with it, just interested what the minimum and maximum would be to bring existing Legends back to full role.

   
Made in de
Servoarm Flailing Magos




Germany

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
For characters, either as individual models, or a multi-option sprue, akin to the old Space Marine Captain.

Not going anywhere with it, just interested what the minimum and maximum would be to bring existing Legends back to full role.


Theoretically, you could cram all the e.g. Imperial Guard legacy characters on a sprue and do a 'Legends of the Imperium' box or whatever... that would save on SKUs a lot. Not gonna happen, but it would be no particular technical challenge.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2023/05/11 11:43:48


 
   
Made in us
The Marine Standing Behind Marneus Calgar





Upstate, New York

Also a little fuzzy with the range rotation thing they are doing. Are minis actually OOP, or just resting?

   
Made in de
Servoarm Flailing Magos




Germany

 Nevelon wrote:
Also a little fuzzy with the range rotation thing they are doing. Are minis actually OOP, or just resting?


They said the range rotation stuff would eventually return, but also said nothing specific as to when, in what form etc. - make of that what you will.
   
Made in us
The Marine Standing Behind Marneus Calgar





Upstate, New York

Tsagualsa wrote:
 Nevelon wrote:
Also a little fuzzy with the range rotation thing they are doing. Are minis actually OOP, or just resting?


They said the range rotation stuff would eventually return, but also said nothing specific as to when, in what form etc. - make of that what you will.


My personal take is that it’s toast, and not coming back. But contains core stuff they don’t want to remove from the main rules and move to legends. We might get lucky and get a MTO, but don’t hold your breath. More likely to have a new plastic sculpt made and eventually released.

Basically OOP, but given full rules support, so not legends.

But when asked the question of “how many kits to get everything in print” do we count them?

   
Made in gb
Ridin' on a Snotling Pump Wagon






That’s a fair question.

If stuff is being rotated, I wonder if perhaps we’ll see that stuff get updated kits as their Codexes roll out.

Certainly we can point to 9th Ed being notable for the sheer amount of new kits being churned out - and for at least three Xenos armies getting significant numbers of updated/new kits.

   
Made in us
Resolute Ultramarine Honor Guard





 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
For characters, either as individual models, or a multi-option sprue, akin to the old Space Marine Captain.

Not going anywhere with it, just interested what the minimum and maximum would be to bring existing Legends back to full role.


That isn't the XYZ model though. IIRC Legends was based on the No Model No Rules thing. They didn't want 3rd parties to make models for their characters, so if they didn't make a specific model for the thing, it went to Legends. Even if they make a generic character kit with upgrade sprues and so on that isn't the model for Captain XYZ.

My WHFB armies were Bretonians and Tomb Kings. 
   
Made in us
Confessor Of Sins





Tacoma, WA, USA

Well, let's just look at Space Marines for an example:

Upgrade Kits (3)
Rhino Primaris (upgrade kit)
Land Raider Excelsior (upgrade kit)
Dreadnaught/Venerable Dreadnaught weapons (upgrade kit)

New or rereleased Kits (7)
Imperial Space Marine
Chaplin on Bike (not to be confused with the new Primaris Chaplin on Bike)
Techmarine on Bike (must include Conversion Beamer)
Librarian in Terminator Armor (new kit to add Storm Shield option)
Librarian on Bike
Honour Guard
Terminus Ultra

Command Squad on Bike (1 Kit)
Apothecary on Bike
Company Ancient on Bike
Company Champion on Bike
Company Veterans on Bike

Old Versions of Characters (6 Models)
Marneus Calgar in Artificer Armor
Marneus Calgar in Terminator Armor
Chief Librarian Tigurius (non-Primaris)
Kayvaan Shrike (non-Primaris)
Kor’sarro Khan (non-Primaris)
Kor’sarro Khan on Moondrakkan

So that is 19 Kits, mostly non-Primaris models, to remove just Space Marines (not including the special chapters) out of Legends. I'm not holding my breathe here.
   
Made in pl
Longtime Dakkanaut





 Nevelon wrote:
Tsagualsa wrote:
 Nevelon wrote:
Also a little fuzzy with the range rotation thing they are doing. Are minis actually OOP, or just resting?

They said the range rotation stuff would eventually return, but also said nothing specific as to when, in what form etc. - make of that what you will.

My personal take is that it’s toast, and not coming back. But contains core stuff they don’t want to remove from the main rules and move to legends.

Saying it a day before the SM range did, in fact, came back, aged really well
   
Made in us
The Marine Standing Behind Marneus Calgar





Upstate, New York

 Irbis wrote:
 Nevelon wrote:
Tsagualsa wrote:
 Nevelon wrote:
Also a little fuzzy with the range rotation thing they are doing. Are minis actually OOP, or just resting?

They said the range rotation stuff would eventually return, but also said nothing specific as to when, in what form etc. - make of that what you will.

My personal take is that it’s toast, and not coming back. But contains core stuff they don’t want to remove from the main rules and move to legends.

Saying it a day before the SM range did, in fact, came back, aged really well


Yup. I was wrong. Proof that cynicism is not always the best policy.

Especially surprised to see some non-named characters.

   
Made in us
Enigmatic Chaos Sorcerer




The dark hollows of Kentucky

 Nevelon wrote:
 Irbis wrote:
 Nevelon wrote:
Tsagualsa wrote:
 Nevelon wrote:
Also a little fuzzy with the range rotation thing they are doing. Are minis actually OOP, or just resting?

They said the range rotation stuff would eventually return, but also said nothing specific as to when, in what form etc. - make of that what you will.

My personal take is that it’s toast, and not coming back. But contains core stuff they don’t want to remove from the main rules and move to legends.

Saying it a day before the SM range did, in fact, came back, aged really well


Yup. I was wrong. Proof that cynicism is not always the best policy.

Especially surprised to see some non-named characters.

Your wrong on the highlighted sentence as well. The Chaos Lord with Jump Pack model was "rotated out", but the rules for both giving a Chaos Lord a jump pack, and arming them with paired lightning claws (which is what the model is armed with), were moved to Legends. Expect no consistency from gw.
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka




NE Ohio, USA

 Gadzilla666 wrote:
 Nevelon wrote:
 Irbis wrote:
 Nevelon wrote:
Tsagualsa wrote:
 Nevelon wrote:
Also a little fuzzy with the range rotation thing they are doing. Are minis actually OOP, or just resting?

They said the range rotation stuff would eventually return, but also said nothing specific as to when, in what form etc. - make of that what you will.

My personal take is that it’s toast, and not coming back. But contains core stuff they don’t want to remove from the main rules and move to legends.

Saying it a day before the SM range did, in fact, came back, aged really well


Yup. I was wrong. Proof that cynicism is not always the best policy.

Especially surprised to see some non-named characters.

Your wrong on the highlighted sentence as well. The Chaos Lord with Jump Pack model was "rotated out", but the rules for both giving a Chaos Lord a jump pack, and arming them with paired lightning claws (which is what the model is armed with), were moved to Legends. Expect no consistency from gw.


?? That seems very consistent. Remove model from sale & from the codex and then retire it to Legends.
   
Made in us
Confessor Of Sins





Tacoma, WA, USA

Was the Chaos Lord with Jump Pack rotated out or just removed from the range? I don't recall.
   
Made in ch
The Dread Evil Lord Varlak





 alextroy wrote:
Was the Chaos Lord with Jump Pack rotated out or just removed from the range? I don't recall.


I believe the model was rotated, the equipment legended. Hence why Gad commented about consistency /Chaosistency

Because if the model came back (and it had twin lightning-claws) as rotated status implies, why legend jumppacks and lighning claws for the lord.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2023/05/16 08:39:15


https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page
A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.
GW:"Space marines got too many options to balance, therefore we decided to legends HH units."
Players: "why?!? Now we finally got decent plastic kits and you cut them?"
Chaos marines players: "Since when are Daemonengines 30k models and why do i have NO droppods now?"
GW" MONEY.... erm i meant TOO MANY OPTIONS (to resell your army to you again by disalowing former units)! Do you want specific tyranid fighiting Primaris? Even a new sabotage lieutnant!"
Chaos players: Guess i stop playing or go to HH.  
   
Made in us
Deathwing Terminator with Assault Cannon






https://www.warhammer-community.com/2023/06/01/legions-and-legends-warhammer-the-horus-heresy-models-in-games-of-warhammer-40000/

Legends is getting expanded with a whole bunch of the various Horus Heresy units.
   
Made in ch
The Dread Evil Lord Varlak





 Asmodai wrote:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2023/06/01/legions-and-legends-warhammer-the-horus-heresy-models-in-games-of-warhammer-40000/

Legends is getting expanded with a whole bunch of the various Horus Heresy units.


Not just HH. Mostly also some of the decent looking daemonengines. Like decimators.

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page
A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.
GW:"Space marines got too many options to balance, therefore we decided to legends HH units."
Players: "why?!? Now we finally got decent plastic kits and you cut them?"
Chaos marines players: "Since when are Daemonengines 30k models and why do i have NO droppods now?"
GW" MONEY.... erm i meant TOO MANY OPTIONS (to resell your army to you again by disalowing former units)! Do you want specific tyranid fighiting Primaris? Even a new sabotage lieutnant!"
Chaos players: Guess i stop playing or go to HH.  
   
Made in fi
Buttons Should Be Brass, Not Gold!






Not seeing tarantulas on that list, I hope they will be included? That's the only big one missing for me. Very happy to see that Dreadclaw, Kharybdis Assault Claw and Deathstorm Drop Pods are still a go

Their decision to keep legends stuff supported but out from tourney play sounds most agreeable to me

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2023/06/01 12:54:11


 
   
Made in ch
The Dread Evil Lord Varlak





 tauist wrote:
Not seeing tarantulas on that list, I hope they will be included? That's the only big one missing for me. Very happy to see that Dreadclaw, Kharybdis Assault Claw and Deathstorm Drop Pods are still a go

Their decision to keep legends stuff supported but out from tourney play sounds most agreeable to me



That entirely depends upon your community and if comp matched play is standard or not.

Legends of the Horus Heresy units:
(for use in matched and narrative play, but not competitive events)

Leviathan, Contemptor, and Deredeo Dreadnoughts
Kratos, Sicaran, Spartan, Cerberus, and Typhon Tanks
Certain variants of the Land Raider, the Vindicator, and the Whirlwind
Xiphon Interceptors, Fire Raptors, Storm Eagles, and Storm Birds
Legion Support Weapons
Fellblades, Falcions, Mastodons
Javelins, Dreadnoughts and Deathstorm Drop Pods
Secutarii Hoplites and Peltasts, and Terrax-pattern Termites
Decimators, Greater Blight Drones, Blood Slaughterers, Greater Brass Scorpions, Kytan Ravagers, the Kharybdis Assault Claw, and the Dreadclaw Drop Pod

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page
A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.
GW:"Space marines got too many options to balance, therefore we decided to legends HH units."
Players: "why?!? Now we finally got decent plastic kits and you cut them?"
Chaos marines players: "Since when are Daemonengines 30k models and why do i have NO droppods now?"
GW" MONEY.... erm i meant TOO MANY OPTIONS (to resell your army to you again by disalowing former units)! Do you want specific tyranid fighiting Primaris? Even a new sabotage lieutnant!"
Chaos players: Guess i stop playing or go to HH.  
   
Made in au
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.

Yeah, screw Chaos. We are just an NPC race after all.

Makes way more sense for our Daemon Engines to be present during the Horus Heresy anyway...

... wait...

Industrial Insanity - My Terrain Blog
"GW really needs to understand 'Less is more' when it comes to AoS." - Wha-Mu-077

 
   
Made in ch
The Dread Evil Lord Varlak





 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Yeah, screw Chaos. We are just an NPC race after all.

Makes way more sense for our Daemon Engines to be present during the Horus Heresy anyway...

... wait...


From another thread, after digging out IA 13.

Could be worse, could have 40k Units supposedly be counted torwards 30k.. f.e. the Decimator which has on it's introduction paragraph written M 35.
Or the Greater brass scorpions: "First encountered during the later black crusades."
Or the Greater Blight drone which has been first encountered at the late stages of the siege of Vraks. M41...
Or the blood slaughterer which is tied to the legend of the killing star ...

But he. Those are clearly darkmech creations. That said there may be a prototype Brass scorpion around in HH because one of the Dark mech heads is supposedly the creator of it. but still

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2023/06/01 14:42:37


https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page
A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.
GW:"Space marines got too many options to balance, therefore we decided to legends HH units."
Players: "why?!? Now we finally got decent plastic kits and you cut them?"
Chaos marines players: "Since when are Daemonengines 30k models and why do i have NO droppods now?"
GW" MONEY.... erm i meant TOO MANY OPTIONS (to resell your army to you again by disalowing former units)! Do you want specific tyranid fighiting Primaris? Even a new sabotage lieutnant!"
Chaos players: Guess i stop playing or go to HH.  
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka




NE Ohio, USA

Eventually you'll all learn to embrace non-tourney play....
   
 
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