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Made in gb
Ridin' on a Snotling Pump Wagon






How do!

So here’s a super general purpose thread, where we can all moan incessantly about what used to be.

The only rule is no complaining, criticism or whining about Current Editions - or as is with 40K at the very minute, that transition period.

Oh no. I’m looking for ‘damned kids, get off my lawn” Toothless Old Timer whines. Let this serve as testament to what internet weirdos once adored and been shockingly robbed of. And yes, as you might’ve guessed, this is intended to be fairly tongue in cheek.

The opinions are factual, but hopefully dramatically overblown.

I’ll go fist!

1. Necromunda. Love it, love it, love it. It’s absolutely my jam and I want it on Toast of a morning. But….. WHERE ARE MY PIT SLAVES? It’s all fine and well delving into the depressing drudge of the average Underhiver, but what of those that some idiot welded a massive weapon to, treated incredibly poorly, then put on a Surprised Pikachu face when their staff/victims decided “nah, time you didn’t have a face”

Your turn!

   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran




Seattle, WA USA

Battletech was a great game before the Clan Invasion stuff completely wrecked the balance. We used to build lances by tonnage, but 200 tons of Clams grossly overshadowed 200 tons of Inner Sphere every day. Why would anyone not play Clans, now? Totally killed the game.

(Yes, I played Battletech back in the day and remember when TRO 3050 first came out...)
   
Made in us
Legendary Master of the Chapter





SoCal

Mandatory post: 5th edition ruined the Necrons, Tyranids, Grey Knights and others, lore-wise.

   
Made in gb
Ridin' on a Snotling Pump Wagon






I feel I should impose a rule that every post should start with “damn kids!” 🤣

   
Made in us
Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain






A Protoss colony world

Damn kids and your fancy-schmancy models. Back in my day, all we had to play with was rocks and sticks, and we actually had to use our imagination if we wanted to play a game. Now, you just let some big company tell you what your imagination is. Next thing you know, it'll be the government and their mind control telling you what to imagine. But I'll be safe with my rocks and my sticks when you're all just pawns of Big Brother.

My armies (re-counted and updated on 11/1/23, including modeled wargear options):
Dark Angels: ~15000 Astra Militarum: ~1200 | Adeptus Custodes: ~1900 | Imperial Knights: ~2000 | Sisters of Battle: ~3500 | Leagues of Votann: ~1200 | Tyranids: ~2600 | Stormcast Eternals: ~5000
Check out my P&M Blogs: ZergSmasher's P&M Blog | Imperial Knights blog | Board Games blog | Total models painted in 2023: 40 | Total models painted in 2024: 7 | Current main painting project: Dark Angels
 Mr_Rose wrote:
Who doesn’t love crazy mutant squawk-puppies? Eh? Nobody, that’s who.
 
   
Made in us
The Marine Standing Behind Marneus Calgar





Upstate, New York

 Valander wrote:
Battletech was a great game before the Clan Invasion stuff completely wrecked the balance. We used to build lances by tonnage, but 200 tons of Clams grossly overshadowed 200 tons of Inner Sphere every day. Why would anyone not play Clans, now? Totally killed the game.

(Yes, I played Battletech back in the day and remember when TRO 3050 first came out...)


Yup. When clans dropped we had to change how we balanced things. Split into two teams. Set the tonnage for the IS side. Then both teams would bid downward to see how many tons they would need to take it. Very on-brand for clan warfare. Push to far down and even with the tech edge, you’ve be outgunned. Let the other guy get it too high, he’ll wipe the floor with you.

There were a lot of games like that. Core rules were good. Maybe the first expansion or two. Then the power creep starting spinning out of control. Back in the day our two big wargames were Battletech and Car Wars. We had to draw a hard line with CW. A lot of stuff just got silly later on.

   
Made in au
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.

The 4th Edition 'Chaos' Codex remains the greatest Codex-based travesty to ever emanate from the 40k studio.

Industrial Insanity - My Terrain Blog
"GW really needs to understand 'Less is more' when it comes to AoS." - Wha-Mu-077

 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka




NE Ohio, USA

 Valander wrote:
Battletech was a great game before the Clan Invasion stuff completely wrecked the balance. We used to build lances by tonnage, but 200 tons of Clams grossly overshadowed 200 tons of Inner Sphere every day.
Why would anyone not play Clans, now?
Totally killed the game.


Why not play clans? Because we tried that, & like you, found it ruined the game we enjoyed.
So the answer is simple. We rarely play Clans. And when we do it's Clan on Clan.
   
Made in au
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.

 Valander wrote:
Why would anyone not play Clans, now?
BTech isn't a competitive game, and playing it as such is silly given the disparity in technology levels. As such, there are plenty of reasons to not use ClanTech in games.

 Valander wrote:
Totally killed the game.
Demonstrably false.

Industrial Insanity - My Terrain Blog
"GW really needs to understand 'Less is more' when it comes to AoS." - Wha-Mu-077

 
   
Made in gb
Fixture of Dakka







As someone who had to play against it at the time, the 3.5E 'Chaos' Codex remains the greatest Codex-based travesty to ever emanate from the 40k studio.

2021-4 Plog - Here we go again... - my fifth attempt at a Dakka PLOG

My Pile of Potential - updates ongoing...

Gamgee on Tau Players wrote:we all kill cats and sell our own families to the devil and eat live puppies.


 Kanluwen wrote:
This is, emphatically, why I will continue suggesting nuking Guard and starting over again. It's a legacy army that needs to be rebooted with a new focal point.

Confirmation of why no-one should listen to Kanluwen when it comes to the IG - he doesn't want the IG, he want's Kan's New Model Army...

tneva82 wrote:
You aren't even trying ty pretend for honest arqument. Open bad faith trolling.
- No reason to keep this here, unless people want to use it for something... 
   
Made in au
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.

Cute...

Industrial Insanity - My Terrain Blog
"GW really needs to understand 'Less is more' when it comes to AoS." - Wha-Mu-077

 
   
Made in gb
Pestilent Plague Marine with Blight Grenade





Grognard complaining, you say? I've finally found my home. Buckle up, lads:

#1: Retcons
Charax wrote:
people throw around the word "retcon" too freely these days when they actually mean "not mentioned within an arbitrary time period I choose to acknowledge as being valid".

Kids today and their not-knowing-what-words-mean. Just because something exists in a book written before you learned how to read and it hasn't yet been chewed up and regurgitated to you in the form of a 20 second Youtube Short against the background of some generic art and copyright-free music doesn't mean it was erased from existence. A retcon has to be retroactive - it needs to go "This is the way things are, they were never any other way". merely not talking about something for 20 years doesn't do that. and yes, Some stuff in 40k has legitimately been retconned, but it's far less common than you'd think.

#2 Loretubers
If you learned about 40k from youtube, you haven't learned 40k lore.

Sorry, but you haven't. you've learned some guy's interpretation of selective bits of 40k lore that is almost always mixed in with their headcanon and is never, ever sourced. I mean, lexicanum can be pretty bad with sources sometimes but at least it pretends, a youtuber will just say stuff and give no indication of where it's from so you can't verify it.

and yes, I know, #NotAllLoretubers, but a lot of them.

#3 40K
Anything above 2000 points should be a game of Epic, so should anything involving flyers and superheavies. 40k just breaks down at larger sizes. the importing of flyers and superheavies into 40k (and the general biggification of the game) has strained the mechanics to breaking point. 40k's a fun game, but it just doesn't handle some things well. Nothing wrong with some things being in another game system that does it better. Sorry Knights players, the models are really cool though.

#4 The Squats should have saved Baal
This one isn't really a gripe, just some alt history. Imagine if the force that descended on Baal to liberate them from the Tyranids wasn't the Indomitus crusade, but was the Squats:
- The narrative symmetry alone: the Imperium failed to come to their aid to defend the Homeworlds from the Tyranids, but the Squats come screaming out of the great rift to save one of the Imperium's homeworlds from the Tyranids, because although they bear a grudge, showing mankind how it's done
- You can keep the Votann update, so now you have a bunch of pissed-off stunties with Dark Age tech who have spent the last century or more developing anti-tyranid weapons and defences, coming to kick Leviathan's teeth in
- Guilliman and the Indomitus crusade doing it is just boring, sorry.

#5 Newcromunda
I'm with Doc on this one, they need Pit Slaves back. And Spyrers (and while you're at it you can actually retcon that "Tau tech ended up in spyrer suits across the other side of the galaxy" nonsense. Actually, take out the Patriarchs and Matriarchs too, dumb idea, ugly models). Ratskins could use a revamp too if you can avoid making them "native american stereotypes but with rats"


Those clouds ain't gonna yell at themselves

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Charax absolutely nailed it.
 
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran




Seattle, WA USA

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
 Valander wrote:
Why would anyone not play Clans, now?
BTech isn't a competitive game, and playing it as such is silly given the disparity in technology levels. As such, there are plenty of reasons to not use ClanTech in games.

 Valander wrote:
Totally killed the game.
Demonstrably false.
Did you miss the point of this thread?
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





 Valander wrote:
Battletech was a great game before the Clan Invasion stuff completely wrecked the balance. We used to build lances by tonnage, but 200 tons of Clams grossly overshadowed 200 tons of Inner Sphere every day. Why would anyone not play Clans, now? Totally killed the game.

(Yes, I played Battletech back in the day and remember when TRO 3050 first came out...)


I'll go you one better. I started playing when it was BattleDroids, and then Lucasfilm got cranky about it...

Gods yes, I'm right there with you.

All these kids with their double heat sinks not learning how to manage their heat...

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2023/05/14 16:11:52


CHAOS! PANIC! DISORDER!
My job here is done. 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





West Michigan, deep in Whitebread, USA

I miss all the GW Specialist games.

They were all awesome. Some were better than others, but they were all such labors of love and imagination.

Who ever would have expected Gorkamorka to be a thing??! And the expansion, Digganob? Mutant descendants of the original human explorers who crashed along with the Space Hulk? Necron-worshipping humans who also idolize the Orks? Communist Grots? *Chef's Kiss*.

And who doesn;t miss how Mordheim and Necromunda basically set the standard for sci-fi and fantasy skirmish systems. Every time a new skirmish game comes out, I swear that the first thing people tend to ask about is "How's the campaign system? Does it have any Mordheim-style skill and injury tables? Can one of my guys who goes out of action in a game end up losing D6 fingers??"

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2023/05/14 20:55:51




"By this point I'm convinced 100% that every single race in the 40k universe have somehow tapped into the ork ability to just have their tech work because they think it should."  
   
Made in us
Grisly Ghost Ark Driver






You damn kids don't know how good you have it these days, what with professionally produced miniatures in metal, plastic, and resin! In all sorts of genres! Historical, Sci-fi, Fantasy, Weird War II, zombie apocalypse, ad infinitium! Spoiled rotten you all are! Back in MY day, we had to CAST our own minis! From LEAD! And you know? We were HAPPY with what we got!

Tongue in cheek, yes, but I'm not kidding. I really did have to cast my own. And the molds I linked to are superior to mine as they are three cavity molds with a command element. Mine was a single line infantryman, and I had to cast two hundred of them one by one in a batch of three. Any more than that and you'll destroy the mold. The vulcanized rubber is heat-resistant, but not heat proof. Yet you get better results if the mold is warm, so it is a balancing act.
https://shop.princeaugust.ie/battle-of-waterloo-wargaming-moulds/?page=4

 Vulcan wrote:
I'll go you one better. I started playing when it was BattleDroids, and then Lucasfilm got cranky about it...

Gods yes, I'm right there with you.

All these kids with their double heat sinks not learning how to manage their heat...
Same here! And even with our single heat sinks, we were HAPPY with what we had!

Now get off my damn lawn!

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2023/05/14 21:02:26


Kings of War: Abyssal Dwarves, Dwarves, Elves, Undead, Northern Alliance [WiP], Nightstalkers [WiP]
Dropzone Commander: PHR
Kill Team: Deathwatch AdMech Necron

 
   
Made in us
Ancient Venerable Dreadnought




San Jose, CA

 Vulcan wrote:
.

All these kids with their double heat sinks not learning how to manage their heat...


That's deep...


Punk kids not getting off my lawn!

I miss the various insanity mechanics in RT. Being able to screech with my Squat bike/trikes and the pure loveliness of the vortex grenade that persists and screws both intended target and thrower.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Everything's just too expensive. I built entire armies for less than $1 per plastic figure. Want a Rhino? $20, same as in town.

Now you need a line of credit to buy this junk. I was at the hobby store the other day and they were asking a week's wages in the 1990s for some oversized Mecha ripoff (some sort of cross of a Battlemech and a French pre-dreadnought).

Great for the big spenders, but if I want Titans, I'll play Space Marine or maybe Epic.

Besides, what is it actually going to do? Either it's a watertower with guns or it goes full Godzilla on the map.

In my day, we didn't have such nonsense. Oh sure, there were those Armorcast things, but you had to ask permission to use them and no one took them seriously.

These kids are spoiled, spoiled, I tell ya, and don't know what a dollar is really worth. Trust-funders with servants painting their figures!

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2023/05/14 23:18:04


Want a better way to do fantasy/historical miniatures battles?  Try Conqueror: Fields of Victory.

Do you like Star Wars but find the prequels and sequels disappointing?  Man of Destiny is the book series for you.

My 2nd edition Warhammer 40k resource page. Check out my other stuff at https://www.ahlloyd.com 
   
Made in us
The Marine Standing Behind Marneus Calgar





Upstate, New York

I know this is the wrong thread for sensible thoughts, but the pricing is not as bad as we think. Don’t get me wrong, it’s up over inflation, but I know I personally have my wallet stuck in 1990. Box of minis? Hardcover book? Should be $20, or thereabouts. Punch that number into the inflato-tron and it comes out to $46.42.

And production quality is way up.

   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





 Nevelon wrote:
I know this is the wrong thread for sensible thoughts, but the pricing is not as bad as we think. Don’t get me wrong, it’s up over inflation, but I know I personally have my wallet stuck in 1990. Box of minis? Hardcover book? Should be $20, or thereabouts. Punch that number into the inflato-tron and it comes out to $46.42.

And production quality is way up.


Oh really? Do the tanks have working running gear yet? I mean, they didn't back then, but they also didn't have a hole in the bottom.

Look, you Little Lord Fauntleroys with your fancy mansions can celebrate the fact that each and every one of your mass-army figures now has the ability to strike a unique disco pose, but I'm on a budget, and I'm just fine with having my line infantry use a standard pose.

You know, like every other miniatures game in history.

It's all well and good to break out Grey Poupon for the Easter ham, but during the week, it's the yellow stuff for the working man.

But I guess for you dot-com millionaires, who have internet things and flat screens and stuff, that's not a worry!

I'm trying to keep my Geo Metro in spare parts, you guys are all "but the quality!"

You keep the quality and give me back my rotary dial phone, which was free with the line AND IT WORKED.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2023/05/14 23:55:22


Want a better way to do fantasy/historical miniatures battles?  Try Conqueror: Fields of Victory.

Do you like Star Wars but find the prequels and sequels disappointing?  Man of Destiny is the book series for you.

My 2nd edition Warhammer 40k resource page. Check out my other stuff at https://www.ahlloyd.com 
   
Made in us
[DCM]
Dankhold Troggoth






Shadeglass Maze

This is an amazing idea for a thread

My contribution would be the complaint others had about MY forces back in 3rd edition. An entire army (except scouts iirc?) that runs forward when it fails its morale checks, instead of running backwards? Who thought this was a good idea!!?

It was amazingly fun being the one on the other side of the table, though
   
Made in de
Regular Dakkanaut





Damn kids and their goldfish attention span these days. Back in the day we waited years - sometimes more than a decade - for a new codex or armybook, and we still survived!

Also: kida these days do not appreciate how good they have it with this newfangled interwebs (or whatever it is called). Back in the days all we had was word of mouth and a few magazines. You knew a new model or game was coming out when it was already in store, or advertised in the latest White Dwarf. And "the meta" was whatever the coolest dude at the store was playing at the time.

   
Made in gb
Ridin' on a Snotling Pump Wagon






Damn kids. Wouldn’t know a good Battle Report if it was painted neon, standing in front of them, banging pots and pans together and shrieking in an attempt to stop those lazy Squirrels hibernating during the winter.

MS Paint field overviews! Cleverly restaged pivotal moments with proper photography. Jervis being hopeless at the games he designed. Adrian Wood being really good. Andy Chambers and his mutton chops, looking like a pound shop Lemmy. But the write up actually being informative.

Also, being able to blast the turret off an enemy tank, and the hilarity when it inevitably landed on something else valuable. Sometimes it was your own stuff getting squished, sometimes it was the enemy having salt rubbed into the wound. Elf’n’Safety improved somewhat after 2nd Ed, and it’s not been as much fun since

   
Made in au
[MOD]
Making Stuff






Under the couch

Darn kids don't know what it was like back when the Land Raider was the most impressive model in the game, shown regularly in the rulebooks and White Dwarf... and you couldn't even buy one, due to some numpty supposedly breaking the mould...

 
   
Made in ch
The Dread Evil Lord Varlak





 H.B.M.C. wrote:
The 4th Edition 'Chaos' Codex remains the greatest Codex-based travesty to ever emanate from the 40k studio.



One can not describe the Pain induced whenever one looks at that codex and it's fancy traitor guard artwork and contrasts that witht he fact that you COULDN'T FIELD CULTISTS ANYMORE.

And a whole lot of other nonsensical changes which have turned CSM into the most codex compliant of codex compliant there was at that time.

______________

For a more recent exemple though.

Standardised everything and clearly dictated rules by content of kit. Especially HQ.. looking at you GSC (or more recent CSM dropping ever more of their armory off)

Back in me day, we used to buy 3 biker squads and 2 nob squads and made our own darn biker waaghboss and his cronies. And the game was better off that way.
And the sadest bit, we nowadays got 3d printers and instead of embracing that GW decided and with gw the community that kitbashes and conversions are the spawn of evil and or modelling for advantage.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2023/05/15 09:06:07


https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page
A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.
GW:"Space marines got too many options to balance, therefore we decided to legends HH units."
Players: "why?!? Now we finally got decent plastic kits and you cut them?"
Chaos marines players: "Since when are Daemonengines 30k models and why do i have NO droppods now?"
GW" MONEY.... erm i meant TOO MANY OPTIONS (to resell your army to you again by disalowing former units)! Do you want specific tyranid fighiting Primaris? Even a new sabotage lieutnant!"
Chaos players: Guess i stop playing or go to HH.  
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




Damned kids and how they insist a game can't have page after page of flow charts and lookup tables just to move a model

hell I've had people call star fleet battles complicated for feths sake

if you can't win a rules argument by killing your opponent with a rulebook its not a game worth playing

and don't get me started on how kids today don't know the true meaning of "dreadsock"
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





leopard wrote:
Damned kids and how they insist a game can't have page after page of flow charts and lookup tables just to move a model

hell I've had people call star fleet battles complicated for feths sake

if you can't win a rules argument by killing your opponent with a rulebook its not a game worth playing

and don't get me started on how kids today don't know the true meaning of "dreadsock"


Yeah, people whinging about having to carry a rule book and a codex or two have no idea how good they have it.

With Star Fleet Battles, your rule book was also your chair. Just bring in that storage tub and have a seat, good to go.

Mind you I never actually played a game with it (too much discussion about the rules), but the point of gaming is to talk and hang out, not move toys back and forth.

These young pups think that gaming is about gaming. Spoiled fools.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2023/05/15 11:10:18


Want a better way to do fantasy/historical miniatures battles?  Try Conqueror: Fields of Victory.

Do you like Star Wars but find the prequels and sequels disappointing?  Man of Destiny is the book series for you.

My 2nd edition Warhammer 40k resource page. Check out my other stuff at https://www.ahlloyd.com 
   
Made in us
[DCM]
Dankhold Troggoth






Shadeglass Maze

Oh man, I totally forgot about how many rulebooks you had to lug around . Who didn't have a small forest's worth of useless paper after playing several years, too?

Still, it was awesome
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




Commissar von Toussaint wrote:
leopard wrote:
Damned kids and how they insist a game can't have page after page of flow charts and lookup tables just to move a model

hell I've had people call star fleet battles complicated for feths sake

if you can't win a rules argument by killing your opponent with a rulebook its not a game worth playing

and don't get me started on how kids today don't know the true meaning of "dreadsock"


Yeah, people whinging about having to carry a rule book and a codex or two have no idea how good they have it.

With Star Fleet Battles, your rule book was also your chair. Just bring in that storage tub and have a seat, good to go.

Mind you I never actually played a game with it (too much discussion about the rules), but the point of gaming is to talk and hang out, not move toys back and forth.

These young pups think that gaming is about gaming. Spoiled fools.


Totally, with a proper game you can own the dozens of books required for years before you even realise its actually a game, and for any real game the 'pre-game discussion' phase can last years, I mean some of the best games technically written from the 1970's are still in the early playtest phase

if the completed game doesn't take up an entire all and require specialised contractors to move it its obviously been streamlined far too much to cope with the ADHD generation and their reduced attention spans, I mean they can't even keep focus for a year or two however will they manage the multi year real time experience of a proper game

and thats before you get into how they think a D1000 table is scary, ha! thats just to tell you which other book to look in to find the actual tables you will need to simply work out the modifiers required
   
Made in us
Battlefield Tourist




MN (Currently in WY)

Back in my day, if you wanted a QRS you made it your gorm-darn self! You didn't wait and expect the publisher to do it for you!

Plus, you did it on a typewriter or word processor, made copies of it at the library for a nickel, and then begged them to laminate it for you for pick-up a few days later.

Support Blood and Spectacles Publishing:
https://www.patreon.com/Bloodandspectaclespublishing 
   
 
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