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Poll
Which faction focus was the weakest in your opinion
Space marines
Tyranids
Chaos space marines
Necrons
Guard
Chaos demons
Adeptus Sororitas
Votann
World eaters
Adeptus mechanicus
Eldar
Death guard
Imperial knights
Tau
Chaos knights
Adeptus custodes
Orks
Thousand sons
Grey knights
Dark eldar
Inquisiton/imperial agents
Genestealer cults
Dark angels
Blood angels
Space Wolves
Black templars
Titans?

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Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




Someone asked for the Weekest faction poll in the other thread so here you go. Which faction focus do you think is the weakest and why.
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut





Death Guard were not inspiring. Mostly due to them having mechanics we're already used to and not seeing anything dynamic.
   
Made in us
Terrifying Doombull




Uninspiring is not the same as weakest, however. The toughness decrease bubble might require a specific tactics, but isn't necessarily weak.

Sticky and gross objectives definitely isn't impressive, but I'd say that's true of about half the detachment abilities.

It'd be easier to say weakest or strongest faction trait, because at least we know all those. As a whole, we don't even have basic units for a lot of factions.

Efficiency is the highest virtue. 
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran




Ya I think most uninspiring would be more accurate. DG I thought was pretty lame but its not worthless. Drukhari I hated but they could end up being very potent depending on how it all shakes out. Still wouldn't make me very happy about it.
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




Ya death guard look weakest to me. But we will know soon enough.
   
Made in au
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.

Chaos in general. DG got a pretty gakky set of rules, and the defining factor of Chaos Marines now is that they kill themselves if they pray too hard.

What a joke.

Industrial Insanity - My Terrain Blog
"GW really needs to understand 'Less is more' when it comes to AoS." - Wha-Mu-077

 
   
Made in gb
Killer Klaivex




The dark behind the eyes.

I'll nominate DE as having the weakest Detachment ability.

 blood reaper wrote:
I will respect human rights and trans people but I will never under any circumstances use the phrase 'folks' or 'ya'll'. I would rather be killed by firing squad.



 the_scotsman wrote:
Yeah, when i read the small novel that is the Death Guard unit options and think about resolving the attacks from a melee-oriented min size death guard squad, the thing that springs to mind is "Accessible!"

 Argive wrote:
GW seems to have a crystal ball and just pulls hairbrained ideas out of their backside for the most part.


 Andilus Greatsword wrote:

"Prepare to open fire at that towering Wraithknight!"
"ARE YOU DAFT MAN!?! YOU MIGHT HIT THE MEN WHO COME UP TO ITS ANKLES!!!"


Akiasura wrote:
I hate to sound like a serial killer, but I'll be reaching for my friend occam's razor yet again.


 insaniak wrote:

You're not. If you're worried about your opponent using 'fake' rules, you're having fun the wrong way. This hobby isn't about rules. It's about buying Citadel miniatures.

Please report to your nearest GW store for attitude readjustment. Take your wallet.
 
   
Made in pl
Regular Dakkanaut






People who voted Death Guard clearly did not read Necron's army focus lol.
Necron would kill for skill to decrease enemy T outisde of engagement range.This gives so much possibilities, in shooting and combat. whiners...
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





 vipoid wrote:
I'll nominate DE as having the weakest Detachment ability.

I know you're not a fan of it, but I feel like the detachment ability is fine for people who want to use all three HQs in the first place. It's just annoying in the short-term because it kind of compels dark eldar players to build their armies a certain way or be at a disadvantage.


ATTENTION
. Psychic tests are unfluffy. Your longing for AV is understandable but misguided. Your chapter doesn't need a separate codex. Doctrines should go away. Being a "troop" means nothing. This has been a cranky service announcement. You may now resume your regularly scheduled arguing.
 
   
Made in us
Humming Great Unclean One of Nurgle





In My Lab

 Xyxel wrote:
People who voted Death Guard clearly did not read Necron's army focus lol.
Necron would kill for skill to decrease enemy T outisde of engagement range.This gives so much possibilities, in shooting and combat. whiners...
What possibilities?

It’s either +1 to your wound roll or does nothing.
That’s potentially pretty potent… but not exactly game-breaking or even game-changing

Clocks for the clockmaker! Cogs for the cog throne! 
   
Made in us
Terrifying Doombull




 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Chaos in general. DG got a pretty gakky set of rules, and the defining factor of Chaos Marines now is that they kill themselves if they pray too hard.

What a joke.


Chaos marines in general, perhaps. (Though WE's faction yahtzee is more annoying than weak, and TS faction is pretty good. Hate the detachment though. Other units need to absolute spam psychic attacks for that to be worthwhile).

But while not necessarily the strongest, Chaos Knights and Chaos Daemons got some really nice and thematic sets of rules. Knight's faction and detachment abilities even synergize rather than working against each other!

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2023/05/31 23:38:24


Efficiency is the highest virtue. 
   
Made in gb
Crazed Spirit of the Defiler




Ironically Necrons would have the same anti-synergy with -1T as Death Guard with all their Gauss being LETHAL HITS.

Death Guard have the "hidden" issue that their units will be priced similarly to Thousand Sons, Grey Knights, World Eaters and Space Marines whether they are as good as them or not.

Plague Marines, Rubric Marines and Grey Knight Strike Squads spent most of the edition all costing 21 or 22 points each.

Blightlord Terminators, Scarab Occult Terminators and Grey Knight Terminators spent most of the edition all costing 40 or 42 points each.

A DG Predator, a TS Predator and an Iron Hands Predator have all been the exact same points the whole edition (changing the same amount at the same time) despite being wildly different in actual strength.

Necrons aren't evil/smelly versions of X so don't have the constraint of being priced the same as X.

To be fair, while I would 100% take Command Protocols over Spread the Sickness, I would say Nurgle's Gift versus Reanimation Protocols is at least debatable.
   
Made in us
Terrifying Doombull




Spread the sickness is honestly weird. There are corner cases for the contagion range, but sticky objectives is a trait that some battleline troops just have. They aren't sacrificing a detachment trait to it.

And if you're completely abandoning an objective it usually means the enemy can't take it, so you still get to score, or you've accepted that you can't hold it and want to keep your forces intact (for whatever that maneuver is worth in 40k). If you're actively fighting over it, whoever has the most OC is what matters, not stickyness.

Efficiency is the highest virtue. 
   
Made in au
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.

Voss wrote:
Chaos marines in general, perhaps.
Sorry, yes, you're right. I meant CSMs.

I wasn't even factoring in Daemons or Chaos Knights.

Although I want to change my vote to Imperial Agents now.

What the fething feth were they thinking with that Generic Inquisitor???

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2023/05/31 23:53:02


Industrial Insanity - My Terrain Blog
"GW really needs to understand 'Less is more' when it comes to AoS." - Wha-Mu-077

 
   
Made in au
Battlewagon Driver with Charged Engine





I'm going to say Genestealer cults myself. The respawning units is nice and all, but it has a solid chance of just, doing nothing if you roll average or the opponent moves on those tokens.
   
Made in ca
Longtime Dakkanaut





By virtue of not being a faction, Agents are the weakest faction.

No enhancements or strats, no detachment rule and an army rule that is entirely "How to use the models in a game without it it actually being an army."
   
Made in au
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.

PenitentJake wrote:
By virtue of not being a faction, Agents are the weakest faction.

No enhancements or strats, no detachment rule and an army rule that is entirely "How to use the models in a game without it it actually being an army."
That's what we get for not just having no studio champion, but a studio that is actively against playable Inquisitorial armies as a concept.

Hooray for Inquisitors being generic with generic weaponry.




This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2023/06/01 02:31:16


Industrial Insanity - My Terrain Blog
"GW really needs to understand 'Less is more' when it comes to AoS." - Wha-Mu-077

 
   
Made in us
Loyal Necron Lychguard





 Xyxel wrote:
People who voted Death Guard clearly did not read Necron's army focus lol.
Necron would kill for skill to decrease enemy T outisde of engagement range.This gives so much possibilities, in shooting and combat. whiners...

How good command protocols is kinda depends on if the BS nerf is across the board or just warriors. If destroyers are hitting on a 2+ all the time then that's probably pretty good.

Of course Reanimation Protocols is banking pretty hard on the "reduced lethality" being a real thing, which I'm still pretty skeptical of.
   
Made in pl
Fixture of Dakka




DG or SoB. SoB , from what was shown, seem to be the type of army knights were in early 9th ed. no idea how they suppose to function under the given core rule set. DG are just a feels bad army, and worse it is not for the opponent, but for the DG player.

If you have to kill, then kill in the best manner. If you slaughter, then slaughter in the best manner. Let one of you sharpen his knife so his animal feels no pain. 
   
Made in au
Calm Celestian




Karol wrote:
DG or SoB. SoB , from what was shown, seem to be the type of army knights were in early 9th ed. no idea how they suppose to function under the given core rule set. DG are just a feels bad army, and worse it is not for the opponent, but for the DG player.
SoB are fine. Probably underwelming, but perfectly functional.

   
Made in pl
Fixture of Dakka




In a world where the Toughness of tanks breaks 10, having your anti tank in the form of 6-12-24" str 8 weapon is not fine. At least in my opinion.

If you have to kill, then kill in the best manner. If you slaughter, then slaughter in the best manner. Let one of you sharpen his knife so his animal feels no pain. 
   
Made in au
Calm Celestian




Karol wrote:
In a world where the Toughness of tanks breaks 10, having your anti tank in the form of 6-12-24" str 8 weapon is not fine. At least in my opinion.
We'll see what Sisters' MMs are like at launch. The could well be better.

There have been other editions of bad melta that Sisters have survived. And we have more AT options now.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2023/06/01 05:08:18


   
Made in au
Battlewagon Driver with Charged Engine





Karol wrote:
In a world where the Toughness of tanks breaks 10, having your anti tank in the form of 6-12-24" str 8 weapon is not fine. At least in my opinion.


Well that's a bit of a universal thing isn't it? It just depends if some of the other weapons in any given faction go up.
   
Made in it
Longtime Dakkanaut





Sisters have no anti tank issues.
They have a T9-11 issue, which is different.

They will make a mess of light vehicles and will a bad matchup for heavy vehilces (T12-14).

They really don't like medium vehicles.
   
Made in gb
Killer Klaivex




The dark behind the eyes.

 Wyldhunt wrote:
 vipoid wrote:
I'll nominate DE as having the weakest Detachment ability.

I know you're not a fan of it, but I feel like the detachment ability is fine for people who want to use all three HQs in the first place. It's just annoying in the short-term because it kind of compels dark eldar players to build their armies a certain way or be at a disadvantage.


Even if you want to field all 3 HQs, it's still an astonishingly bad ability.

You get 3 extra Pain Tokens and then that's it. That's your entire detachment bonus for the game.


Compare that with, say, Eldar, who get a reroll to hit and a reroll to wound for every unit in their army for the entire game. And they don't even need to take one of each HQ to get it.

 blood reaper wrote:
I will respect human rights and trans people but I will never under any circumstances use the phrase 'folks' or 'ya'll'. I would rather be killed by firing squad.



 the_scotsman wrote:
Yeah, when i read the small novel that is the Death Guard unit options and think about resolving the attacks from a melee-oriented min size death guard squad, the thing that springs to mind is "Accessible!"

 Argive wrote:
GW seems to have a crystal ball and just pulls hairbrained ideas out of their backside for the most part.


 Andilus Greatsword wrote:

"Prepare to open fire at that towering Wraithknight!"
"ARE YOU DAFT MAN!?! YOU MIGHT HIT THE MEN WHO COME UP TO ITS ANKLES!!!"


Akiasura wrote:
I hate to sound like a serial killer, but I'll be reaching for my friend occam's razor yet again.


 insaniak wrote:

You're not. If you're worried about your opponent using 'fake' rules, you're having fun the wrong way. This hobby isn't about rules. It's about buying Citadel miniatures.

Please report to your nearest GW store for attitude readjustment. Take your wallet.
 
   
Made in us
Terrifying Doombull




cody.d. wrote:
Karol wrote:
In a world where the Toughness of tanks breaks 10, having your anti tank in the form of 6-12-24" str 8 weapon is not fine. At least in my opinion.


Well that's a bit of a universal thing isn't it? It just depends if some of the other weapons in any given faction go up.


It isn't universal. What it comes down to is that some armies have a full range, others don't. And this severely impacts weapon options and platforms.

And it isn't just space marines (before anyone jumps in), craftworlds, chaos marines, guard all have dedicated platforms for a variety of weapon types. Orks... sometimes do (we'll have to see, but some of the buggies and mech guns might become more important. But I can remember editions where they were locked at a soft cap of S8 + shokk attack guns and warboss/dread powerclaws, and that was functionally it for AT). Votann and Tau seem functional enough in terms of weapon variety (though could be better). Knights can certainly bring some big AT weapons, but pure knights have other problems.

Most of the rest have to struggle and scramble for 'enough' heavy weapons. I'm sure someone can pick out exceptions, but in general, there is a set of armies that have a real struggle for all-comers lists, let alone skew.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2023/06/01 13:07:10


Efficiency is the highest virtue. 
   
Made in us
Enigmatic Chaos Sorcerer




The dark hollows of Kentucky

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Voss wrote:
Chaos marines in general, perhaps.
Sorry, yes, you're right. I meant CSMs.

I wasn't even factoring in Daemons or Chaos Knights.

Although I want to change my vote to Imperial Agents now.

What the fething feth were they thinking with that Generic Inquisitor???


And as an added bonus? Say "Buh bye" to a considerable portion (and best looking, IMHO) of the available daemon engines, and all of our drop pods.
   
Made in ca
Deadshot Weapon Moderati




The Tyranid army rules just make up for the weaknesses they have. It's a bad deal.
   
Made in it
Longtime Dakkanaut





Nomeny wrote:
The Tyranid army rules just make up for the weaknesses they have. It's a bad deal.


That's a weird way to say "Gives even the worst model in the army, the best Ld value in the game".
   
Made in pl
Fixture of Dakka




cody.d. 810118 11541329 wrote:

Well that's a bit of a universal thing isn't it? It just depends if some of the other weapons in any given faction go up.


That is not universal. If I know that lets say eldar have multiple different anti tank units, and various way to deal with tanks, and some were even shown, then even if fire dragons end up on the extrem spectrum of bad it won't matter. For a sister army melta being non efficient is a really bad situation, because it is not like they can just replace it with something else. It is like my dudes melee and stormbolters. If storm bolters are bad, then my dudes practicaly stop having shoting.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Spoletta 810118 11541331 wrote:Sisters have no anti tank issues.
They have a T9-11 issue, which is different.

They will make a mess of light vehicles and will a bad matchup for heavy vehilces (T12-14).

They really don't like medium vehicles.


So they will be okey, as long as they only play vs DE using mass venoms? And who knows maybe DE will be a top meta army, and if true, it won't be bad for SoBs. To me a situation where an entire faction is okey, as long as the opponent doesn't take the good stuff, is not a "being okey" situation.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2023/06/01 20:33:29


If you have to kill, then kill in the best manner. If you slaughter, then slaughter in the best manner. Let one of you sharpen his knife so his animal feels no pain. 
   
 
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