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I've been running this list ofr a while now and I've been thinking about making a substituion.  Feed back would be appreciated

HQ
SHP- x2 lightning claws, jump pack, narthlecium, frags
or
Codier Librarian, familiar, bp, frags + misc

ELITE
DC (0+) in rhino

TROOPS
10 TAC squad. flamer, Vet Sgt. plasma pistol, power weapon.  Rhino- ea, smoke,
10 TAC squad. melta, Vet Sgt. thunder hammer.  Rhino- ea, smoke, searchlight, dozer blade
5 TAC squad laz cannon. Razorback- twin lazcannon, ea
5 TAC squad missile launcher. Razorback- twin lazcannon, ea
10 SCOUT squad, bolters, 6 sniper rifles, missile launcher
10 BA SCOUT squad bp, ccw.  Vet Sgt. power fist

FAST ATTACK
2 Toranado land speeders
10 ASSAULT squad x2 flamers. Vet Sgt Power Fist
--------------------------------------------------

I'm thinking of removing the first TAC squad and putting in either:
7 assault terminators or 6 terminators w/x2 assault cannons
In either case I'll give my BA scouts a teleport homer for forward deployment.  It will also involve minor tweeks in the rest of the list to drop the points down to 1850.

Have folks had good experiences with this?  Any thoughts?

Hello and thank you!

Nobody has to lead the DC.  SHP or Chappys CAN but noone HAS to.  I get more outta my SHP when I get the Assaulters and the Scouts in on the charge than I do sticking a Chaplin in a unit that's already fearless. For me, the DC are a throw away unit- a diversion.  Everyone under the sun hates them, so they shoot the crap outta them.  That's what they're there for.  Currently they jet forward and draw fire away from the rest of the units. Perfect.

I'm not putting naked vets out there just to score a free DC fist.  That's a cheezy move and you get dinged for it (rightfully so).  Considering how much RTTs I do, this is an issue.

The sniper scouts have killed a C'Tan and taken down more bugs than I can count.  Yes they fall foward every so often, but them's the breaks. Power fists/power weapons that are spread out through the entire army are far more useful than one unit having several.  You can face any danger on any flank that way.

Dozer blades allow you get to close to the enemy via the shortist route, and that's often through forests.  Too many times I've tried that only to roll my fateful 1.

I do agree about the razorbacks, I'll see what I can work there. I've also been toying with the idea of a 2nd Assaulter squad; perhapse an alternate list. I also agree that this would make a solid regular marine list.

What I'm most conserned with is the question of dropping out the TAC squad in favor to the terminators and the affect it would have on the army as a whole. Assault or shooty?  Have folks seen terminators to look better on paper than they've faired on the battle field?

Razorbacks are worthless in a BA army. Why pay for the over inflated price? I'd use those points to get a Tornado speeder. Better guns and more mobile. The DC chaplain by far is the best by for the BA. Anyone that tells you otherwise hasn't run the math. Already your opponent is playing with a points handicap to your favor, adding this guy makes the DC more efficient and you can control where they go. For me, I don't think this list is a strong as it could be. Capt K

Why the 2 x10 man tac squads, lower the number, be sure to have vets = more dc.... Vets in scout minmax squads is where it's at, not snipers.... Agreed Razorbacks don't perform to justify the point cost. But hey, remember isn't there a new BA codex comming out, you may want to waitfor that and any new rules that ushers in, may make you want to take more jank.

10 man squads are king at holding table quarters. Min/max squads take 3 kills to become worthless for taking objectives.  Not to mention it's terribly easy for you to start handing out points to your opponents when they get wiped out.  Expecially when 1 or so falls to the DC. 

You pay a 15pt penalty for taking a razorback.  That's one of the drawbacks of the list.  However it's an excellent use of support choise in your troops category.  Any assault needs some long ranged support to soften up it's targets. I find great use with them, but I've been playing this list for nearly 10 years, so I've got a good feeling on what they can/can not do.

Moopy,

You might consider a 6 man termie squad with 2 assault cannons and give the sarge lightning claws.  You can keep your core list of librarian, DC, termies as above, 4 tac squads as is, assault squad as is, 2 tornados for 1775 points.  Sprinkle in scouts to taste.

THANK YOU! Yea, if I got the termy route then I'll drop the sniper scouts even though they were fun to paint. Thanks!

Moopy,

I would be interested in seeing your alternate 2 assault squad list.  I usually use a demi company as my basic list and then build off of that, 3 tac (2 as yours and 1 vanilla with ML and plasma rifle all in rhinos), 1 assault as yours and 1 6 man dev with 4 ML in a razorback with twin linked lascannons

Recently I have been toying with

Codicer, bp, jump pack, familiar

DC with rhino

6 termies, lighting claw sarge, 2 assault cannons

10 Tac vet sarge, bp, pw, flamer, heavy bolter, rhino, smoke

10 Tac vet sarge, bp, power fist, heavy bolter, melta gun, rhino, smoke

10 Assault squad, vet sarge, bp, powerfist, flamer x2

3 Bike squad, vet sarge, teleport homer, melta gun, attack bike / meltagun - I like to zip the bike forward in the first turn behind cover and then bring the termis down on it

Tornado

This comes in at 1500 on the button.  Not sure what to do to expand to 1850.  I enjoy it due to the variety.

I really liked your original list.  I think the razorback with twin lascannon is a great base unit for BA.  I usually go with the devs with 4ML in it but I think I like your idea of using 2 tac squads.  You mitigate the black rage that way.  Your scouts really give you some flexibility too.  I think I will have to try out the Moopy BA.

Thank you! We BA move quite a bit... and sometimes not by choice. People have often poo-pooed the razoback because AR 11 doesn't look good on paper. The trick to fielding them is cutting down the lanes of responce fire that shoots back. Usually I try and pair them off against single targets an have them on the flanks so they can either criss cross the cener or keep a rapid vehicle from rolling up on my side. Smaller tactical squads are perfect for fire support and since there's not a concentration of heavy weapons in each unit, I don't feel bad if they get shot up or fall forward as there are mulitple units that do the same thing. Lots of troops = more for the death company (my average size is 3-6).

Rhinos are excellent shields for advancing troops. Several of them side by side = solid wall of defense made even better by smoke. 12" move also makes perfect cover for your advancing (expensive) assaulters. DC always gets the free rhino to add to my rhino wall. It's FREE after all, so that fits perfectly in my tactics.

The SHP works nicely in higher point battles as you can bring lots of bodies to the charge. That re-roll ability gets really powerful at that point. Not to mention the Narthalectum keeps my expensive Assaulters alive. 2 saves in the game and it's more than paid for it's self.

Lastly I chose 2 tornados in the same unit as it gives me a better chance to achieve fire supperiority with rending wounds. Send me a pm and we'll talk further.

Deathcompany not lead must move towards the nearest enemy unit..... Fast skimmers will have them running in the wrong direction for a few turns, after which the unit is useless as it is too far away.

Worst case for the BA player there is that his free unit of DC just tied up the fast skimmers for 2-3 turns. 

Moopy's list is a "higher" form of BA list and is quite a bit more deadly than the "load up the DC" typical lists you see out there.  BA are not Khorne Bezerkers and once you stop playing the list that way, you find out that they are alot more powerful.  You can win alot of games using the mad rush to hth method against inexperienced opponents but once you step up to the higher levels of RTT and GT's you find out your one trick pony has been figured out by most of the players there. It sounds like Moopy plays in alot of  those venues.

As to loading up the DC, I often wonder why people go to such great lengths to put vet sarges in a DC company when a chaplain or SHP with powerfist and powerweapon accomplishes the same thing. 

As a long time BA player coming back to the game, I'm glad I found this list. Reading through some of the posts it sounds like BA still get all the "special" things from their codex (overcharged engines, the + to str and I for free on the charge, etc)...am I reading this correctly?

They do, yes.

Ironwarrior,

the point of giving them power weapons simply makes them more killy. The more power weapons the better, and against high saving units they become invaluable. They're nice because they get initiative and strength 5 with 4 attacks each on a charge. I go to great lengths for this, because you can kill a whole swathe of enemies who would regularly get to attack back. You save your DC while decimating them.

Vet sarge DC with Power weapons get an average of 1.6 kills against marines on a charge and .75 every other round. With 3 DC you can usually get all engaged in the first round of combat without taking any losses.

Also i think you should take a chaplain. They re-roll to hits on charges, which will help since to-hits is where most DC fail and lose attacks. With a chaplain, a single vet sarge with a pw will kill about 2 marines on a charge. DC vets will cost 30 points, so they automattically make up their points on the charge.

Give DC jump packs so they can advance farther and you cant lose any from putting them in a rhino (10 max that way, or 9 with a chaplain). They're now selling seperate bags of 10 jump packs for $15( )!!1

Hello, and thank you all for replying!

@vsurma: Yes, that can happen, but it's yet to happen to me. If you can't shoot down a skimmer in short order then there's larger problems than just your DC moving poorly. Honestly, I use my DC as a spook unit. Everyone hates them and will go to great lengths to destroy them. I'm fine with that as it allows my forces to move up unmolested; my other units the real punch of my armies. Not to mention if my enemy kills off a relatively small unit of DC, then he/she gets a bragging right and even if they lose the game, they're still happy. That's a good place to be in when playing tourneys.

@Lormax23: Yep, BA still get many of their bonuses, but you'll find they're not the same. We pay 15pts for our supercharged engines on all rhino chasis. However, now you roll 2d6 to see if thy immobilize and on snake eyes they explode! Also, the rules for dismounting has changed, so BA can no longer zip forward, dump out, and *donkey*ault all in the same turn. We've moved from a rapid *donkey*ault force to a rapid short ranged fire fight force with CC benefits.

@Jum P Axe: I can't argue that a DC with a power blade is very nice. But again, too much in ANY unit upgrades subtracted from the army, dilutes the ability the benfits of items given, as it subtracts from the army as a whole. I want a blade (or more likely a fist) in as many units as I can, give ALL units an anti-armor ability.

The chaplin is very nice for that re-roll. However the chaplin got that ability from the SHP. Better yet SHP gives it to ALL units within 6" who charge EVERY turn. That's why I take the SHP over the chaplin as I get my *donkey*aulters and other units a huge title wave of hits, not just one unit. When you work multiple *donkey*aults over a couple turns, the ability is invaluable. Also, It's easy to bog a Chaplin down so he can't go anywhere.  If a SHP gets bogged down and you add another unit to get him out, that new unit gets the charge bonus.  Lastly, he's cheaper

I still like the free rhino for my rhino wall tactic which works so very well. I have a very hard time turning down a free wall.

I admitedly use (many would say under utilize) the DC differently than most. They are a powerful unit and I can't deny that. However, I've chosen to use mine as a feint rather than a fist.