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Hey guys, Jason Holliday here, The Necro Guy and organizer of the Necronomicon in Orlando. I will of course post more on our event at a later date, but I wanted to comment on the whole loaded dice discussions going on and what has supposedly happened at the necro.

I spoke to the person who played against the player who is accused of having loaded dice. He told me of everything suring the game and how he felt. I took this complaint very seriously and wanted to know who, what, when, where. He told me who and the like. I then hunted down a club member of the accused and asked him his opinion. That club member has been to the necor before, has been to countless GT's and is a very well respected player in the Warhammer Fantasy Community, as well as becoming a friend of mine over the years. His opinion was that he did not use loaded dice, explained to me how he always wins at local pickup games and is just that good. Has very good luck and is just a really good player, great general, and has enormously great luck across the board. I then found the accused and talked to him, looked him in the eye and ask him if he cheated, he did not pause, he did not look away and he looked me square in the eye and said he did not. We talked about it for a few minutes and then he wanted me to check his dice, as well I did too. I did check his dice, all of them in his dice bag, rolled them countless times, picked them up, examined, etc. I DID NOT find any loaded dice in his bag whatsoever. I said thank you for being so kind and I went on my way.

Having said all of that, my conclusion is this. I do not belive he had loaded dice. I believe he had good rolls, some nice luck, and played very well. It does happen people. How many times have you played in events and felt unstopable, that your dice were so hot they could catch fire.

Now, on the flip side, IF this person was using loaded dice, or cheating in any way the person playing him should have come up to the front and gotten one of the organizers to come over immediately, check the dice and go from there. By not doing this, and only doing after the event was comletely over, it really makes it hard to honestly verify if the dice were in fact loaded or not.

We run an excellent tourney, one of the best around, and anyone will tell you that. We strive to make it the best, we want to put on the best event we can, one that WE would want to go to, not just some rinky dink "terd-a-ment" put on with sheets and cardboard. The gamers in our area, menaing locals, are also very well respected players. We have some of the best out there in Orlando, and the gaming can get very intense sometimes because the competition is so high.

We had a great time at the tourney and I would like to thank all the players did as well. IF anything like this ever happens again I would PLEAD with people to please come up immediately and let us know so we can handle it then and handle it right.

Thanks to all the guys who came, both sides, it was extremely fun and we can't wait to do it again next year!!!!

 

Jason - www.thenecro.com

 

I've never been to a gaming tournament, but I've been to enough tournaments, races, meets and other organized competitions in other interests of mine. Situations like this are ALWAYS tough to deal with, regardless of the outcome. Unless things are approached immediately, you will always have people who doubt the ruling that was made, and you can't do that unless it's brought to your attention right away. Otherwise it's impossible to fully prove innocence and guilt, and some folks will hold their opinions no matter what you say or do. I wasn't there, I have no facts, and I am not going to make ANY opinion regarding the actual event.

But, perhaps as a future suggestion to help avoid even the hint of this problem, have you considered supplying dice to the players and not allowing them to use their own? Not only will it prevent loaded dice, it will also hopefully prevent innnocent players being accused of using loaded dice. If you buy in bulk, for about a two bucks per player you can give everybody coming in the door 20 fresh dice that have never been used and they can take home to keep. Yes, you would have to pass the expense on to the players, but if it's only $2 more AND they get to keep something extra for that money, I don't think they would mind.  And in the numbers you are buying at, you may be able to get them cheaper than that as well.

Or, as a similar idea, you can have a bucket of dice at each table that is shared between the players. This way both of them are using the SAME dice, and any 'good' or 'bad' dice will affect both players equally.

-Hans

Jason, this is Ed Maule. You met me at the Colonial.

Up until this, I've heard nothing but fantastic things about the Necro, so I'm sure it's a great event.

But I'm still left scratching my head as to how several of your locals all see fit to either outright accuse Pete of cheating, or insinuate that while they have no proof, they strongly suspect he did.

If it was one person, I'd just dismiss it as a local kook, but at least 3 Orlando locals have publicly slander Pete without a single iota of proof. I find that highly disturbing. I know that it's a bit far reaching for me to say that this sort of unsportsmanlike behavior is the "Orlando way", and of course I know that's not true, but every region is known for it's style of play.

And right now, sadly, Orlando 40k is going to be known for sore losers who make wild claims about loaded dice.

Perhaps you guys should talk to the people that made the ridiculous claims and explain to them why it's a bad idea, because still they obviously don't get it, and continue to say they have suspicions of cheating.

@Hans - Downside of that is that people will be insulted by the insinuation that they're cheaters, and that negative vibe will drive people away. And it won't really stop the real cheaters, in the end.

The end result is that, if they REALLY want to, people will find ways to cheat; the flipside is, poor losers will always make allegations of cheating. I know THAT part from experience. All the rest of us can do is play the best, cleanest game we can, and shake our heads at the sad people who have to validate themselves by cheating at a game.

That's just the thing though, in every other competitive event I've ever been in there has been some type of equalizing factor to prevent cheating, and it's a normal and accepted thing. Take any type of racing, you have tech inspections. R/C has hand-out motors. Paintball has roster verification, chronographing, tech inspections and required paint. Las Vegas does regular changes of dice and cards. Most sports have drug testing.

Most of those things will only catch casual cheaters, but it does do a lot to reinforce for the fair people that the organizers are trying to prevent it. People who play clean will take it in stride, since they are the ones benefitting from these efforts and it is done FOR them. It also removes folks from making excuses and false accusations. Just as long as nobody is being singled out, and everybody is treated equally, it really won't bother many people at all.

I'm not saying it is necessary at this point, but if it becomes a stigma of some type then my idea can help to cure that to an extent. But in all honesty, I think that by next year most people will have forgotten this whole thing totally other than the very few people that were actually involved. And I think that given how far things had progressed in the event before the organizers became involved, that they handled it about as well as could have been done.

-Hans

Posted by mauleed: Up until this, I've heard nothing but fantastic things about the Necro, so I'm sure it's a great event.

It is indeed a great event.

Posted by mauleed: But I'm still left scratching my head as to how several of your locals all see fit to either outright accuse Pete of cheating, or insinuate that while they have no proof, they strongly suspect he did.

Re-read the posts again. It isn't exactly a huge leap of logic and you were not there either. I also like how everyone still dances around the other issues raised and clings to this one.

 

Posted by mauleed: If it was one person, I'd just dismiss it as a local kook, but at least 3 Orlando locals have publicly slander Pete without a single iota of proof. I find that highly disturbing. I know that it's a bit far reaching for me to say that this sort of unsportsmanlike behavior is the "Orlando way", and of course I know that's not true, but every region is known for it's style of play.

Again, it is silly to label a region that way. I'll now label all of New York as liars for some of the things that Pete posted on the forum. Also, since you know that is not true why do you continue to post like a jackass?

Posted by mauleed: And right now, sadly, Orlando 40k is going to be known for sore losers who make wild claims about loaded dice.

Only through people like you would that be known. I am certainly not a sore loser and anyone who knows me will tell you this. I am competitive like anyone else but that is the extent of it. Again, address the lie Peter posted for a change.

Posted by mauleed: Perhaps you guys should talk to the people that made the ridiculous claims and explain to them why it's a bad idea, because still they obviously don't get it, and continue to say they have suspicions of cheating.

A suspiscion is certainly not ridiculous. Past history of people cheating against me have proved that it is indeed possible. The fact that I WAS NOT the only player to think that something might be up tells me something as well. The fact that he LIED on these forums which can be proven and no one is jumping on is one that you avoid. Keep beating the dead horse mauleed....or ride a new one.

 

Lazarus.

Lazarus:

Mauleed's last post was not directly aimed at you. You need to learn to have a discussion without directly insulting people. Mauleed has a tendency to do that, but he has already been warned on this particular issue and has so far been respectful.

Jabs such as:

"Also, since you know that is not true why do you continue to post like a jackass?"

and:

"Keep beating the dead horse mauleed....or ride a new one."


Are completely uneeded to make your point and only help to inflame the situation. This thread is being now being locked. The other one will also be locked soon if you people don't start behaving like adults.