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Ok its not exactly the new Edition but its new to me.  I am a long time wargamer but have been out of it for a couple of years (got married and life just got in the way).  I have recently got back into 40k and have played a couple of games.  I dont have the hang of this new edition.  I dont want to sound conceated but I won about 90% of my games in pervious editions (since Rouge Trader) but have only tied two games and lost 6 with this edition.

I play marines (0-2-4) and Guard (0-0-2) and am getting discouraged.  I would really appreciate some advise.  I purchased a new marine army (very mixed with a bit of everything except Land Speeders).  I have tried using my old tactics and have gotten raped.  Of my 8 games 5 have been against Chaos (I'm getting really sick of them) and one against Eldar, both my ties have been against other Marines.  I helped run a Rouge Trader a couple of weeks ago and saw of 20 players 4 having Bugs, 6 having Chaos.  What's up?

I really need your help guys and girls.  Any and all advise will be appreciated.  The one thing I wont do is buy a new army.  I just simply cant afford it.  I can create just about any army list possible with Marines and Guard (like I said I have been in the hobby for along time) but I just dont like non imperials.  I have owned and played every army that has ever come out (including Squats and even a small Slann army).

Everyone has a different style of playing, and different armies work for them. Personally, I use a shooting-heavy Marine army, with a few close-combat elements. My record is fairly good with that style, but it isn't for everyone, I know.

What style of play do you prefer? What traits do you like for a SM list?

Short range firepower backed up by a few longer ranged anti tank units and a few assult units usually does well. More guys that can move and shoot with bolters will never go wrong.

what armies are out there for you to play against.

Post your usual lists for critique. Help us help you.

No need to get discouraged. Rules transitions in this game are tough. I started in early (still out of the main 3rd ed book) dark eldar. Dark eldar not being an amazingly forgiving list (though arguably the most powerful in the game), I lost my first 8 games, most of them horribly. After that, they became the darklance cabal of the beard and wone 90% of their games before I sold them.

I've been through a few rules transitions too. When I started with my templars, they used Codex: Space Marines. Then they used Codex: Armegeddon + Codex Space Marines. That became Armeggeddon + the new marine codex. Now, we have our own codex. After college (3rd ed with new assault rules), I kept up with the books and codexes but didn't play regularly until a few months ago. I'm finally getting a handle on 4th ed, but it took a couple of weeks.

The Second ed, when I assume you stopped, and third ed transition was huge. When I was starting out, I played a lot of people with second ed armies. They tended to ignore transports, which were apparently deathraps in the old rules. They spent WAY too many points on characters and elites. The elites often died unter plasma/starrcannon fire. The charcters were often unescored by friendly infantry, leading to a few hilarious (for me) instances of lascannon/krak missile/hidden power fist insta-kill.

Things I fear about vanilla marines-
Rhinos-Awsome (not quite the 18inch charge range cart o' doom al la 3rd ed) However, they are still quite useful.
- get your plasma gunners and bolter marines (two per squad and possibly a combi plasma weapon!!!) into rapid fire range.
-infantry fighting vehicle, open the hatch with plasma gunners, meltas, and flamethrowers raining death on the enemy. -enemy infantry cannot get within one inch of an enemy in the movement phase; can we say annoying?
-size three and block line of site, shielding your marines from dark reapers, starcannons, and direct fire pie plates.

Donkey (assault) cannons-Inconsistant but devestating

Librarian-There's no psychic phase anymore, but this guy both shuts down the opponent's psychers and comes with a force weapon.

Vet Sergents-If you are playing a plasmagun based marine force, Vets with Power fists can be indespensable. If you don't have them, assault armies of all stripes, bugs, demon bomb, cult marines, space wolves, and templars will assault you. If you have 3 attacks with an str 8 hidden powerfist, you can beat his reduced squads (remember they just got hosed with your plasma guns). If not your plasma squads will get one round of good shoot before they get bogged down or destroyed in assault, neither scenario is good. If you field heavy weapons in your marine squads then these guys can be a waste of points, more marines will work better for you!

Lets get tanked! I would like to try a force with 3 predators and every other squad in a rhino or rasorback. The object here is to overwhelm the opponents anti tank units. I haven't seen it played since 3rd ed. However, it worked then and I don't see why it would fail now.

No tanks! You field 50 marine troopers. (Only 750 pts!!!) Even pie plates will have a hard time whittling you down, assuming the tanks survive the assault cannon land speeders. Bug and guard horde armies will drop like flies to your boltguns (16 gaunts or guardmen at turn at 24 inches). Sure, those elite khorn berserkers and their bloodletters might kill 25 of them. However, you have more scoring units than your opponent. You win based on mission objectives.

Opponents-
Chaos-Chaos might be the most powerful all around army under the current rules. They can do just about anything.
-Chaos assault-The biggest mistake I see people playing balanced marine armies make against chaos assault forces is shooting with their shooty units and moving their assault forces forward to engage the enemy at close range asap (players do the same thing to my templars). When people do this, their specialist assault units (or often unit) get assaulted by many times their number of enemy assault troops. It's better to keep them hanging around your line until you get to charge them into an enemy close combat unit which has reached your lines.
-Chaos shoot-If you are playing Iron Warriors you have just lost. These guys are tough. All I can think of is try to engage them in middrange fire fights, especially if they are hiding a basilisk and defiler behind terrain. Often you can get within the 36 in min indirect fire range of these vehicles and their usefullness drops off, the opponent has a choice between exposing front armor 12 or not shooting.
-Chaos infiltrate-Deploy to maximize your LOS so as to restrict their infiltration options. Chances are they will have you surrounded. So pick one flank and throw everything you have at it. The foot sloggers on the other side of the board will struggle to reach you while you overwhelm your opponents flank with superior numbers and firepower.

Eldar-Eldar hate land speeders with assault cannons. They make mincemeat out of starcannon eldar players min sized squads. They are as mobile as anything your opponent has. The forgotten heavy bolter wrecks his light infantry. Both weapons turn Vipers into terrain. Against eldar I like to have a "critical mass" of marines, at least 30, to absorb the wounds caused by ap 2 weaponry. Watch out for falcons, these guys got a big boost from the new tank rules, having 3 multi shot weapons.

Other marines-figure out what your strength is relative to their army. Do you have superior long range firepower? Do you have more close range firepower? Are you better in assault? If you answered yes to one of these questions, then everything you do (deployment through turn 6) should be aimed at maximzing your advantages. If that means exposing your lascannon dev squad to get your command squad into close combat, do it. If that means sacrificing your assault marines to get an extra turn of rapid fire goodness, do it.

Acually ninjajuicer I played alot of 3rd edition. I cut my teeth on Rogue Trader and 2nd Edition but got most of my play time on 3rd. I was out of the game for just shy of eighteen months, but kept up with the rulebook and codexes. A couple months ago I started playing regularly again (but that got interupted by a new job, work every weekend).

My old army list was VERY heavy firepower based. The last GT I went to was 6 tact squads (plasma/lascannon), a dread, predator annhilator, dev squad (4 missile launchers), and an assault Command Squad and and extra commander.

I dont like taking vet sgts with power fists, and turn my squads into power fist devlivery systems. However I am comming to that conclusion that it might be necessary.

As far as what I play against... chaos. At the store I played at there are 14 regular players. 13 have chaos armies. 1 eldar. A few have second armies (a mix of marines and eldar) and a couple have more (1 guard player, 1 necron, and a really annoying kid with bugs, like him but he has the attention span of a fruit fly). Like I said Im getting really sick of fighting chaos.

Ok sorry about the delay, just moved and they couldnt hook up internet right away.

I have for my marines, The Vanguard, successor chapter of the Blood Angles (but use the regular Marine rules):

4 Commanders:
1 Terminator Armor, Thunder Hammer, and Storm Shield
1 Power Armor, Thunder Hammer, Combat Shield, Bolt Pistol, Jump Pack
1 Power Armor, Power Fist, Bolt Pistol
1 Power Armor, Bolt Pistol, CCW

3 Librarians
1 has Combat Shield, Bolt Pistol
2 have Pistols (holstered)

3 Chaplains
1 Terminator Armor, Storm Bolter
2 Power Fists

Command Squad (8)
Champion, Apothicary, 2 flamers, can have a vet sgt with power fist

2 Dreadnoughts (modular weapons)
1 Techmarine (with servo harness)
4 servitors (3 close, 1 multimelta)
2 Terminator Squads (8 each) Each squad has 2 assault cannons
2 extra terms with cyclones
1 extra vet sgt with lightning claws

6 Tact Squads (8 each)
4 squads have plasma guns
2 squads have melta guns
2 extra marines with melta guns
10 extra Vet Sgts
6 with power weapons, 2 power fists, 2 combi weapons
4 Scout Squads (8 each)
2 squads have missile launchers and bolters
1 squad with missile launcher and sniper rifles
1 squad with ccws and vet sgt with power fist
6 Razorbacks/Rhinos (can be either) all with heavy bolters
2 Rhinos

2 Assault Squads (8 each)
2 flamers per squad, each squad can have a vet sgt with power fist

2 Devastator squads (8 each)
LARGE mix of heavy weapons
6 lascannons, 6 missile launchers, 4 heavy bolters, 4 plasma cannons, 2 multi meltas
3 Predator Annhilators
1 Land Raider
2 Cyclone Missile Launcher systems (which can be put on any of the Razorbacks or rhinos)

For Traits I was going with:
Cleanse and Purify
No Mercy, No Respite
Drawback: Eye to Eye

Ok, suggestions?