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Hey all,

I've focused mostly on WH & DH to this point, with some Tau and Iron Warriors for deviant play, but lately I've been thinking of a Ravenguard force. I like the concept and the fluff (although I'm not sure I agree with the Codex traits chosen for them), but I'm not sure what a 'good' and 'balanced' force list is for them.

I'd like to use something like the following:

HQ Shryke (1) + Wing (5)
HQ Chaplain with Jumppack (1)

EL 3 squads of Assault Marines (6 to 8 each)

FA 1 squad of Assault Marines (6 to 8)
FA 2 squadrons of Speeders (1 anti-tank & 1 anti-personnel)

TR 4 squads of Scouts with 3 Sniper Rifles and 1 Missile Launcher each (Primary pinning to allow assualt marines to move up, and secondary use as anti-tank with the ML)

HV 1 or 2 squads of devastators with Missile Launcher
HV 1 Predator

I haven't run points, but I'm targetting 2000 to 2500 points. I know Shryke and Wing are expensive, and pinning isn't reliable. I'm also a little worried about anti-tank power.

Any thoughts or suggestions from the experienced SM generals?

Thanks!

Tanks and devastators are unwelcome in Raven Guard forces. If you want anti-tank power, give some assault squads melta-bombs. I suggest taking only 2 sqauds of scouts to allow for more assault marines or speeders.

By 'unwelcome' I assume you mean unfluffy?  Codex SM traits for the Ravenguard limit their choices and number of SOME tanks, but I believe the Devastators aren't restricted at all, and the Predator 0-1.

I'm not convinced on bringing only 1 tank, so it might be 2 or 3 squads of Devastators.

I was more looking for advice on if this list would be viable and if it could hold it's own against most other forces.  I'm not convinced the Scout squads relying on Sniper Rifles and Pinning to hold forces in place while the Assualt Marines jump forward will work.  I'd certainly give several of the squads melta bombs to assist with the anti-tank, but some Missile Launchers on the Scouts and Devastators would be another option, and I'm waffeling on which speeder configuration would best support this list.

Thanks again.

No devastators, no tanks. All you need are melta-bombs. Pinning is a joke, in the rare chance that it wouold work, the only armies with a low enough leadership would have too many units for it to be of any effect. If you wanted ant-tank, why would you take missile launchers? Las-cannons are much more suited for the job. If you took that list to a tournament, you would receive terrible scores for how a raven guard list should look, it reminds of the time I saw a mostly Khorne army with 2 or three Havoc squads for anti-tank instead of getting an anti-tank lord.

Why no Devastators or tanks?  Rules say they're okay.  Just from a fluffy composition perspective?

I'm not trying to be dense, but I'd appreciate some collaboration (hence asking for review and help).

I figured with 3 Sniper Rifles in each squad I'd have a marginal chance at pinning.  Is there any way to improve the odds of pinning?

I figured ML with frag would help against hordes, while krak could handle anything less than AV14.  Not great odds, but with 2 speeder squads I should have anti-tank options.

Why would the list get low scores for a Ravenguard composition?  Heavy on Assualt Marines, Heavy on Scout squads, Speeder support, and a very limited Heavy support presence.  Seems very Ravenguard to me.  Help me understand what it is I seem to be missing.  What does a competitve Ravenguard list look like from your perspective?

I'm relatively new and not competition savvy, but I am trying to learn.

Thanks.

How about this for an idea. For troops take 3-4, 6-man squads with lascannons and rhinos. For heavies take 1 predator annhilator with power of the machine spirit (PotMS).

Now use the lascannon troops to take down armor at range. Use the Rhino's as cover for your assault marines as they approach. If the jump packers move up without cover, a likely scenario, then they will be decimated. Have 3-4 rhino's with smoke and extra armor provide a mobile wall for your assault marines to jump up behind.

The one predator with PotMS in cover could draw several heavy weapon shots away from the rhino's on turn 1 or 2 for the advance to work.

HQ - Shrike and 5 wing

EL - 6 jumpies with power fist + furious charge
EL - 6 jumpies with power fist + furious charge
EL - 6 jumpies with power fist + furious charge

TR - 6 marines + lascannon + rhino, smoke, extra armor,
TR - 6 marines + lascannon + rhino, smoke, extra armor,
TR - 6 marines + lascannon + rhino, smoke, extra armor,
TR - 6 marines + lascannon + rhino, smoke, extra armor,

FA - 8 jumpies with power fist
FA - Tornado
FA - Tornado

HV - Predator, all lascannons, power of the machine spirit

What I like about this army is that in escalation you can deploy nothing on the table and respond to your opponent by coming on to the table where ever you want to provide the best shots/avenues of advance. Along those lines a HK missile on all the rhinos might be nice.

Well I just read the Raven Guard drawback, Flesh over Steel, and my idea won't work. Forget the whole thing. Sorry.

I'd go with 6 squads of assault marines, shrike's wing, a couple small squads of scouts, and then whatever you can get

Yeah, no transports for the troops without taking away from the FA slots. 

I was hoping to find a way to make solid Ravenguard list, but I'm finding it a big challenge to field a force that can hang with the more flexible universal lists.

I think I'll revise to something like this since I can't find a way to make the Pinning List actually work...

Shryke + Wing

4 squads of Assualt Marines

2 Squads of Speeders

4 Tac Squads

Then I'll review points and maybe add a Predator and Devastator squad(s) as points permit.  I know some folks find this approach unfluffy, but it's still within the boundaries of the rules.  :-)

I can see that I'm not able to deter you from your tanks and devastators, so i'll give some other advice. If you're taking Landspeeders, make them all with assault cannons and heavy bolters. Give your devastators lascannons. Horde armies are generally orks, tyranids, sometimes imperial guard, and a few others. While the mostly comprise of a lot of troops, they still have tanks/mega armor/monstrous creatures, krak missiles won't help against imp. guard tanks and 2+ armor saves.

Why speeders? Assault marines with flamers kill hordes of guys just fine plus assault. The only thing Raven guard needs is some long range antitank and AP2 firepower for killin stuff you don't want to assault til it's softened up (Tyrants, daemon princes, etc).

Meltabombs, a few las/plas squads, and craploads of jump pack marines.

If you can't fit vet sarges, 6 man JP marines with plasma pistols are not too shabby for the points (maybe meltabombs).

Speeders in addition to assault marines.

Hey Bat,

Please don't get me wrong, I do appreciate the fluff advice on the tanks and Devastators, but my local group is very 'power-heavy' if you know what I mean.  I'd try to field as close to the spirit of the Ravenguard as possible, but I'd like the option of adding a single tank of some form, or 1 or 2 Devastator squads if the mission called for it.  We normally build 2500 point armies and then field subsets of the master list in smaller campaign engagements.

I was originally trying to do Shryke & his wing, 2 speeder squads and 4 Assualt Marines, and a lot of scouts, but I'm not sure I'll get the right support mix with the scouts, and now I'm thinking of taking the Tactical squads, or a mix of 2 scouts and 2 tacs.  Most games I wouldn't field the tank or Devastators, but I'd like them there as options, unless I can find a way to be well rounded (ie - have some anti-horde, and some anti-tank).

I'll put together a 2500 pt list both ways and see what you and everyone else thinks.  I really like the Ravenguard fluff and concept, but I don't know them that well as a list.  Anyone have a good Shryke Ravenguard list?

Thanks again.