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		<title><![CDATA[Latest posts for the thread "Is whining about comp bad sportsmanship?"]]></title>
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				<title>Is whining about comp bad sportsmanship?</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ <p>If you're in a no comp tournament (as all the 07 <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(50);'>GW</span> <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(48);'>GTs</span> will be), should you have to put up with someone whining about cheese?</p>  <p>I'm of the opinion that whining about comp in a no comp tournament is inherently unsportsmanlike and deserving of a bad sports score, particularly if the person is using comp as an outlet for expressing what a sore loser they are. </p>  <p>Now normally my sports scoring is all or nothing. If you don't cheat and are polite, you get full points from me. If not, you get a zero and I tell you I gave you a zero (happened to do this at the last tournament I went to). </p>  <p>So should I be zeroing people that whine about my army during and after the game? (assuming it's a no comp tournament?) Should I bend on the all or nothing and just give them one tick from zero?</p>]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Tue, 12 Dec 2006 05:11:17]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ mauleed]]></author>
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				<title>RE: Is whining about comp bad sportsmanship?</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ In a no comp tourney, yes you should dock them, but zeroing them because they vocally say "man nice game but jeez that is kinda a cheesey list?" once would be a wee bit harsh.  If they persist with it, then by all means zero them.  It is poor sportsmanship to keep pushing the issue, because the match was already decided, and nothing can be done about it]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Tue, 12 Dec 2006 05:18:29]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ moosifer]]></author>
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				<title>RE: Is whining about comp bad sportsmanship?</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ Yes, in this circumstance, depending on the whine level.  If it was bad I'd definitely start knocking points. Having said that if he's whining about yourcheesy list he's probably already pushed into the sportsmanship negative player zone anyway. ]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Tue, 12 Dec 2006 05:50:36]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ Frazzled]]></author>
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				<title>RE: Is whining about comp bad sportsmanship?</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ I tend not to dogball anyone. It is rather annoying when someone whines about how your list is X and it should be Y to keep in line with their perception of fluff.  So yes whining about someones army is bad sports <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(72);'>IMO</span> however doing a stealth dogball is worse.  ]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Tue, 12 Dec 2006 05:56:11]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ Dice Monkey]]></author>
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				<title>RE: Is whining about comp bad sportsmanship?</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ Whining about anything = bad sportsmanship.<br><br>If you get your butt kicked you say good game and then its time for some inflection.  You dont berate the guy that just bested you because you were obviously not as perpared as him.]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Tue, 12 Dec 2006 06:01:02]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ the_trooper]]></author>
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				<title>RE: Is whining about comp bad sportsmanship?</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ I berate the_trooper because he has just primed zombies!!!<br><br>What ya gonna do about it!?!?!?]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Tue, 12 Dec 2006 06:03:16]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ moosifer]]></author>
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				<title>RE: Is whining about comp bad sportsmanship?</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ Like 5. Pffft.]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Tue, 12 Dec 2006 06:06:45]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ the_trooper]]></author>
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				<title>RE: Is whining about comp bad sportsmanship?</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ <blockquote class="uncited"><div>Posted By moosifer  on  12/12/2006 10:18 <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(682);'>AM</span><br />  In a no comp tourney, yes you should dock them, but zeroing them because they vocally say &quot;man nice game but jeez that is kinda a cheesey list?&quot; once would be a wee bit harsh.  If they persist with it, then by all means zero them.  It is poor sportsmanship to keep pushing the issue, because the match was already decided, and nothing can be done about it</div></blockquote>  I agree with this, no need to totally tank someone if they just give you their opinion.&nbsp;&nbsp; Sounds like you are just being vindictive.<br />  <br />  I'd probably tank you right back in sports if you totally zeroed me, however.<br />]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Tue, 12 Dec 2006 06:21:03]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ SunTzu]]></author>
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				<title>RE: Is whining about comp bad sportsmanship?</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ People whining about my army...Especially hypocritical whining about cheese definitely negatively impacts my enjoyment of the game.  I've made a vow that if I hear any whining about my army from now on, I'm going to tank the sports score.  Especially since, I'm sure people like that will tank comp and sports regardless.<br><br>And I feel confidant in doing this in comp tourneys also.]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Tue, 12 Dec 2006 06:35:27]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ skyth]]></author>
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				<title>RE: Is whining about comp bad sportsmanship?</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ There's whining, then there's commenting. Someone saying that your list is cheesy could be his way of saying that your list is optimized. I know a kid who says Lysander Wing is cheesy but what he means is optimized. What I'm basically saying is that make sure its whining and not just someone commenting that they got their ass handed to them. <br><br>Example:<br>"Dude, your army is cheese. I never realized <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(79);'>LatD</span> could do that." It all depends on the tone of that statement. He could be saying it with a smile while he mentally resolves to buy daemons or he could be saying with a sneer while he plans on slamming your sports score. I know that when I play we often find a "cheesy" list and alot of the enjoyment is coming up with a counter.]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Tue, 12 Dec 2006 07:05:48]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ Sgt_Scruffy]]></author>
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				<title>RE: Is whining about comp bad sportsmanship?</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ Ah so its like the difference between the "N" word ending with "a" or "er"?<br><br>I will say it in jest to a friend but in the world of <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(3);'>40k</span> its nothing short of an insult. <br><br>]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Tue, 12 Dec 2006 07:12:59]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ the_trooper]]></author>
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				<title>RE: Is whining about comp bad sportsmanship?</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ The assumption here is that he's complaining, not that he's making a friendly comment.]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Tue, 12 Dec 2006 07:15:11]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ mauleed]]></author>
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				<title>RE: Is whining about comp bad sportsmanship?</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ Mauleed if he was complaining, yes tank his ass.  Even if it were me, I would tank myself.<br><br>the_trooper:  Yea in <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(3);'>40k</span> we say nay-sayer not nay-saya]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Tue, 12 Dec 2006 07:27:05]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ moosifer]]></author>
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				<title>RE: Is whining about comp bad sportsmanship?</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ <p><i><b>Is whining about comp bad sportsmanship?</b></i></p>  <p>Yes</p>  <p><i><b>should you have to put up with someone whining about cheese?</b></i></p>  <p>No</p>  <p><i><b>...normally my sports scoring is...</b></i></p>  <p>Here lies the problem, everyone has a different algorithm, it's not objective.&nbsp; Whatever the criteria, the problem lies in the scoring system.&nbsp; Comp/Sportsmanship is inhernetly flawed, that's what a judge is for, to judge.&nbsp; There should not be an arbitrary factor in an award like overall. Eliminate it.&nbsp; A restructuring solves all of this.&nbsp; Predicated on a decent <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(36);'>FAQ</span>, a published scoring system, &nbsp;the elimination&nbsp;of comp, and judges who actually make consistent rulings; the awards should be:</p>  <p>Best General: Based on <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(140);'>VPs</span></p>  <p>Best Painted: Judges Choice</p>  <p>People's Choice: Popular vote</p>  <p>Possibly with places 1-3 for each.&nbsp; Best sportsman, a noble concept, but an utter failure,&nbsp;is completely&nbsp;meaningless because &quot;theme&quot; and &quot;niceness&quot;,&nbsp;are abstract concepts that defy metrics.</p>  <p>I suggest a tourney player in any kind of comp system make the devils deal:</p>  <p>Mark each other perfect comp and sportsman before the game flavors anything and get on with the tournament.</p>]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Tue, 12 Dec 2006 07:28:54]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ Augustus]]></author>
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				<title>RE: Is whining about comp bad sportsmanship?</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ my bad... should read the original post more closely.<br>]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Tue, 12 Dec 2006 07:29:45]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ Sgt_Scruffy]]></author>
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				<title>RE: Is whining about comp bad sportsmanship?</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ No!  I just got an award for being a nice guy at my last tournament.  Don't take that away from me!]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Tue, 12 Dec 2006 07:39:48]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ the_trooper]]></author>
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				<title>RE: Is whining about comp bad sportsmanship?</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ I thought you and the orks player were ready to exchange blows!!! So much for Mr Nice Guy]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Tue, 12 Dec 2006 07:48:44]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ moosifer]]></author>
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				<title>RE: Is whining about comp bad sportsmanship?</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ I'm usually pretty even-keeled as far as commenting on armies, but at the Chicago <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(48);'>GT</span> this year, I played against 3 mech eldar players, and against the first player, I was cool, (my balanced ultramarines got spanked), 2nd player I got spanked worse, and by the time I saw that my final opponent was another mech eldar player again loaded up with edge-hugging falcons and serpents, I almost cried (ok, not really).&nbsp; I'm sure I probably made a comment about how cheesy I thought mech eldar are, but I did let my opponents know why, and that it wasn't anything against them personally.<br />  <br />  I guess I'm just saying that in my opinion, some people may have reason to complain, and it may not be anything personal against you, just try to take it in context.]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Tue, 12 Dec 2006 07:55:06]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ SunTzu]]></author>
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				<title>RE: Is whining about comp bad sportsmanship?</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ So Mauleed, what are you exploiting in 07?]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Tue, 12 Dec 2006 07:55:13]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ Third_Age_of_Baggz]]></author>
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				<title>RE: Is whining about comp bad sportsmanship?</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ <blockquote class="uncited"><div>Posted By mauleed  on  12/12/2006 10:11 <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(682);'>AM</span><br />  <p>If you're in a no comp tournament (as all the 07 <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(50);'>GW</span> <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(48);'>GTs</span> will be), should you have to put up with someone whining about cheese?</p>  <p>I'm of the opinion that whining about comp in a no comp tournament is inherently unsportsmanlike and deserving of a bad sports score, particularly if the person is using comp as an outlet for expressing what a sore loser they are. </p>  <p>Now normally my sports scoring is all or nothing. If you don't cheat and are polite, you get full points from me. If not, you get a zero and I tell you I gave you a zero (happened to do this at the last tournament I went to). </p>  <p>So should I be zeroing people that whine about my army during and after the game? (assuming it's a no comp tournament?) Should I bend on the all or nothing and just give them one tick from zero?</p>  </div></blockquote>  <br />  All or nothing is fine I suppose. I really dont like to zero people unless they are complete ass in front of a judge.<br />  <br />  A little bit of moaning is somewhat fair, but crying about how &quot;your the cheesemeister, I heard of YOU&quot;, would make me mark a foo down to nothing.<br />  <br />  Its situational. I am forgiving and dont believe in zeroing out someone, but some people most definatly deserve it.]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Tue, 12 Dec 2006 08:08:23]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ Hellfury]]></author>
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				<title>RE: Is whining about comp bad sportsmanship?</title>
				<description><![CDATA[      If I know there is no comp in the tournament, I wouldnt not complain at all knowing that I will be going up against armies that can soundly beat my army with the right combination of units. Every army has an army that is just very cheesy or hard to beat playing against. Thats is how the system of balance works out in <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(3);'>40k</span>. <br><br>    Is there something called cheese? Perhaps but its all in the eye of the beholder. I do belive that there are armies that abuse the rules system and are to win at any cost. I also belive that there are armies that have the proverbial "easy" mode when you play them. But that is up to the choice of the player and in the end of it all its just a game but it is in human nature to complain and if most of us werent competitive, we wouldnt be playing in tournaments in the first place.   <br> <br><br>  In a tournament its usually about who you play and can be rock-paper-scissors.]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Tue, 12 Dec 2006 08:13:30]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ undeadmike]]></author>
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				<title>RE: Is whining about comp bad sportsmanship?</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ If the complaining lessened the fun of the game, then yes it's bad sportsmanship. I believe one of the criteria is something like &quot;all problems were settled amiably, this guy was a joy to play against&quot;. <br />  I've docked people for not meeting this, whether they were complainers or the one guy that didn't say a thing the whole game, that guy creeped me out.]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Tue, 12 Dec 2006 11:27:58]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ MadEdric]]></author>
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				<title>RE: Is whining about comp bad sportsmanship?</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ Zero them to set an example. I too believe I have been the target of excessive whining, and I don't believe adults should act like that! If the main rule is having fun, don't say things like "Oh man, you don't massacre me it'll be laughable, I mean you just passed 13 saves!" or "Yea, with a list like that I could probably win all my games too". Its insulting, they need to go home and rethink their attitude.  Besides if they really are just playing for fun and not to win, why do they complain when their non-competative list is bent over the table?]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Tue, 12 Dec 2006 13:32:57]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ Keldrin]]></author>
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				<title>RE: Is whining about comp bad sportsmanship?</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ Get a <i>I Didn't Write the Rules, Blame the Design Studio</i> t-shirt, or failing that, a thrust kick to your opponent's chest will make the crazy brave think twice.  <img src="/s/i/a/6d3c0a908a3861135dfaebde91c0ecf6.gif" border="0">  ]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Tue, 12 Dec 2006 14:06:13]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ Jester]]></author>
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				<title>RE: Is whining about comp bad sportsmanship?</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ <img src="http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e69/colorcrayons/white-t-shirt-lrg.jpg"  />]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Tue, 12 Dec 2006 14:19:00]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ Hellfury]]></author>
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				<title>RE: Is whining about comp bad sportsmanship?</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ Needs more Impact font.]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Tue, 12 Dec 2006 14:27:18]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ Jester]]></author>
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				<title>RE: Is whining about comp bad sportsmanship?</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ If truly complaining, yes. <br><br>If laughing about how he's getting his @$$ kicked during/after the game ("Wow! I have no way to deal with your 9 oblits! Pretty, though." "Drop Pods, eh? I guess I'm buying the next round.") then no. ]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Tue, 12 Dec 2006 15:48:54]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ syr8766]]></author>
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				<title>RE: Is whining about comp bad sportsmanship?</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ What the point complaining.  Competitions are there to be won.  If not there would be no prize or points scoring. If they get rid of points scoring and ranks then yes its a friendly game.  But with points being awareded for winning etc obviously people will come to win with lists that are designed to do just that.  <br><br>Its not cheesy its what tournies are about.  So suck it up and stop all the Whining.  If you dont like it dont play or do the same but just stop complaing about it.  This is where the hobby is headed.  the good ol days are behind us now  so get over it.<br><br><span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(442);'>ps</span> Not directed at anybody in paticular, just generally aT ALL YOU CRY BABIES.]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Tue, 12 Dec 2006 20:38:07]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ beef]]></author>
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				<title>RE: Is whining about comp bad sportsmanship?</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ Whining about the comp is bad sportsmanship in any tourney, comp or not.  Obviously, you won't get anywhere when you whine in a no-comp tourney so all you'll do is piss off your opponents.  In a comp tourney, you're supposed to whine BEFORE the event, not during.  During the event you put on a Miss America smile and hope your opponent knows that you care about world peace and ending world hunger.]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Tue, 12 Dec 2006 23:01:29]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ stonefox]]></author>
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				<title>RE: Is whining about comp bad sportsmanship?</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ <blockquote class="uncited"><div>Posted By MadEdric on 12/12/2006 4:27 <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(634);'>PM</span><br />  If the complaining lessened the fun of the game, then yes it's bad sportsmanship. I believe one of the criteria is something like &quot;all problems were settled amiably, this guy was a joy to play against&quot;. <br />  I've docked people for not meeting this, whether they were complainers or the one guy that didn't say a thing the whole game, that guy creeped me out.</div></blockquote>  <br />  I agree that would be boring. <br />]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Tue, 12 Dec 2006 23:10:10]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ Frazzled]]></author>
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				<title>RE: Is whining about comp bad sportsmanship?</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ I wanted to slap the Ork player because he was a whiney b$%#@ that is just a terrible person.  As a painter he is pretty darn good but as a person he just sucks.  Also, he loved playing against me since I got best sportsmanship  <img src="/s/i/a/6d3c0a908a3861135dfaebde91c0ecf6.gif" border="0"> .<br><br>In the last 3 tournaments I have been in, I have had no issue with anyone's comp.  Funny since they were at 3 different stores in 3 very different areas.  2 of the tournaments shared quite a few of the players.  If I think people will be toting things in that are a little on the cheesey side, I just pony up a more competetive list.  I would do it for a tournament anyway.  Some armies are just a little more obvious than others. Would I take my <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(79);'>LatD</span> to the <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(48);'>GTs</span>?  I don't know... maybe?  Maybe I would take more daemons and use the <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(15);'>BT</span> / <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(262);'>DP</span> combo in it.  Its a different game then.  I am up for the challenge and don't mind it if the consensus is to do the same.  <br><br>Knife to a gun fight as others before me said.  You bring a gun to a knife fight and I'll hit you with my truck!<br>]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Wed, 13 Dec 2006 00:58:32]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ the_trooper]]></author>
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				<title>RE: Is whining about comp bad sportsmanship?</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ <blockquote class="uncited"><div>Posted By jfrazell  on  12/13/2006 4:10 <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(682);'>AM</span><br />  <blockquote class="uncited"><div>Posted By MadEdric on 12/12/2006 4:27 <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(634);'>PM</span><br />  If the complaining lessened the fun of the game, then yes it's bad sportsmanship. I believe one of the criteria is something like &quot;all problems were settled amiably, this guy was a joy to play against&quot;. <br />  I've docked people for not meeting this, whether they were complainers or the one guy that didn't say a thing the whole game, that guy creeped me out.</div></blockquote>  <br />  I agree that would be boring. <br />  </div></blockquote>  <br />  More than boring. I usually chatter throughout a game and quit by turn 2 because all my jokes/comments were met with a dead stare. Guy made me feel like if I said anything more than &quot;this unit targets that unit&quot; I was in the wrong.]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Wed, 13 Dec 2006 05:59:01]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ MadEdric]]></author>
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				<title>RE: Is whining about comp bad sportsmanship?</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ ewww. You don't have to be  a chatterbox by the niceties of society do apply. If a game is enjoyable I usually find myself chattering away with them. ]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Wed, 13 Dec 2006 07:07:26]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ Frazzled]]></author>
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				<title>RE: Is whining about comp bad sportsmanship?</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ chatting is fine, its the fun part to play with somebody who is having a good time and generaly getting to know that person as long as thats not all they do and actually play.  <br><br>What is crap is if the person justs plays and says nothing, its kinda creepy cos you think this guy has no social skills.]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Wed, 13 Dec 2006 10:43:59]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ beef]]></author>
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				<title>RE: Is whining about comp bad sportsmanship?</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ <blockquote class="uncited"><div>Posted By Augustus on 12/12/2006 12:28 <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(634);'>PM</span><br />  <p><i><b></b></i></p>  <p>Here lies the problem, everyone has a different algorithm, it's not objective.&nbsp; Whatever the criteria, the problem lies in the scoring system.&nbsp; </p>  <p>Comp/Sportsmanship is inhernetly flawed, that's what a judge is for, to judge.&nbsp; There should not be an arbitrary factor in an award like overall. Eliminate it.&nbsp; A restructuring solves all of this.&nbsp; Predicated on a decent <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(36);'>FAQ</span>, a published scoring system, &nbsp;the elimination&nbsp;of comp, and judges who actually make consistent rulings; the awards should be:</p>  <p>Best sportsman, a noble concept, but an utter failure,&nbsp;is completely&nbsp;meaningless because &quot;theme&quot; and &quot;niceness&quot;,&nbsp;are abstract concepts that defy metrics.</p>  <br />  </div></blockquote>  <p>&nbsp;</p>  <p>Sportsmanship has its issues, but the overall assessment I get from everyone who attended <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(48);'>GTs</span> prior to it, is that there was a much higher percentage of out and out jerks in attendance.&nbsp; </p>  <p>The existence of Sports scoring, and in <b>particular</b> the fact that it figures into the Overall scoring, forces people to at least make an effort to be a nice guy.&nbsp; Most folks will anyway, but in any competitive arena, you need some mechanism to rein in the overcompetitive bell ends.</p>  <p>The fact that Sportsmanship scoring is subjective doesn't make it useless.&nbsp; At least some fraction of painting scoring is also subjective, but we're not tossing it out- common opinion holds that tournaments are better events if everyone is painted, and people make an effort.&nbsp; If the scoring requires painting if you want to do well, even the guys who don't give a toss for painting have an incentive to make an effort.</p>  <p>I've seen several different metrics for Sports scoring, and while the 1-5 scale is a long way from perfect, with good descriptions for each level it works decently.&nbsp; People who ignore it, or themselves ruin its validity by being bad sports themselves, are not a reasonable excuse for tossing the whole thing.&nbsp;&nbsp; Two wrongs don't make a right.</p>  <p>Anyway, it is possible to design a better system, too.&nbsp; I've come up with one and used it at two tournaments so far to generally good reviews.&nbsp; If we criticise <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(50);'>GW</span> for lazy game design, it's a bit hypocritical for us not to put a little effort into good tournament design if we're running events.</p>]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Wed, 13 Dec 2006 10:49:41]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ Mannahnin]]></author>
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				<title>RE: Is whining about comp bad sportsmanship?</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ Biggest problem I find with the sportsmanship score is how it can be abused. I know in some of the <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(48);'>GTs</span> I've been in game clubs had a system where they would dock players if they knew&nbsp; they had a chance to rival their top tier players. Instead of a fair score they'd give them 1-2 points less in both sportsmanship and comp. Anything to give their friends an edge.]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Wed, 13 Dec 2006 11:44:02]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ MadEdric]]></author>
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				<title>RE: Is whining about comp bad sportsmanship?</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ yes that does happen here in the <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(134);'>UK</span> with sportsmanships as all the guys just vote for there friends.]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Thu, 14 Dec 2006 03:56:01]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ beef]]></author>
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				<title>RE: Is whining about comp bad sportsmanship?</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ <blockquote class="uncited"><div>Posted By beef on 12/14/2006 8:56 <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(682);'>AM</span><br />  yes that does happen here in the <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(134);'>UK</span> with sportsmanships as all the guys just vote for there friends.</div></blockquote>  <br />  <br />  Then there is nothing so to speak wrong with the system, just the ethics and morals of your competitors]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Thu, 14 Dec 2006 04:41:55]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ moosifer]]></author>
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				<title>RE: Is whining about comp bad sportsmanship?</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ <blockquote class="uncited"><div>Posted By moosifer  on  12/14/2006 9:41 <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(682);'>AM</span><br />  <blockquote class="uncited"><div>Posted By beef on 12/14/2006 8:56 <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(682);'>AM</span><br />  yes that does happen here in the <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(134);'>UK</span> with sportsmanships as all the guys just vote for there friends.</div></blockquote>  <br />  <br />  Then there is nothing so to speak wrong with the system, just the ethics and morals of your competitors</div></blockquote>  <br />  When the system allows loopholes for unethical behavior, there is indeed something wrong with said system. There are many people caught up with winning that their usual morales go to the wayside when it comes to competition. <br />  There's nothing wrong with &quot;cheese&quot; as the rules allow for it. <br />  There is a problem with soft scores as many people will use it to punish or handicap others if they see a benefit in it. <br />]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Thu, 14 Dec 2006 08:23:43]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ MadEdric]]></author>
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				<title>RE: Is whining about comp bad sportsmanship?</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ Just have to Quote Crimson Devil on another topic he posted on,  I agree with him.<br><br>"in the <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(50);'>GW</span> universe winning is rude. The moral high ground goes to the loser and the winner should feel shame for the rest of his days.<br><br>Comp is garbage. The only way to resolve this is to have predetermined army lists for each army. No alterations. Play this army, then play this list. Everyone uses the same stuff. Only then will best general be determined. Of course people will still complain."<br><br>True and the worse is when they fain suprise at winning when you knew it was a forgone conclusion from turn 2.<br>]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Thu, 14 Dec 2006 10:28:20]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ beef]]></author>
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				<title>RE: Is whining about comp bad sportsmanship?</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ Read the next post by him beef, he was being sarcastic]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Thu, 14 Dec 2006 10:53:23]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ moosifer]]></author>
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				<title>RE: Is whining about comp bad sportsmanship?</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ duh I did I do get sarcasm, sometimes.  but he was still right.]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Thu, 14 Dec 2006 20:45:34]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ beef]]></author>
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				<title>RE: Is whining about comp bad sportsmanship?</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ That's crap.  Sorry Beef, but it's just a failure of intelligence and imagination.  <br><br>I came up with new comp and sports scoring systems, with help from a bunch of other gamers. I've put them into practice in two small tournaments so far, and they seem to work.<br><br>Just because you've never seen it succeed doesn't mean it CAN'T work if someone puts a little more thought and effort into it.]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Fri, 15 Dec 2006 03:22:43]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ Mannahnin]]></author>
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				<title>RE: Is whining about comp bad sportsmanship?</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ As long as your not tyranids its ok to tank. <br><br>Armored company must always tank.<br><br><br>Whining is the devils answer to gaming. i.e how can I make this <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(270);'>sh</span>!t and miserable.<br><br>On to the original question. If your at a no comp tourney and you whine about comp, then you must be given a zero. In fact I would make it a law.  ]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Fri, 15 Dec 2006 21:33:45]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ Shaman]]></author>
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