Latest posts for the thread "DA Characters and Drop Pods"

DA Characters and Drop Pods

yakface — GMT

Unless I'm missing something in the DA codex (and I easily could be) I don't see any specific rule allowing ICs to join units and arrive with them via Drop Pod. Since DA characters aren't actually attached to their Command Squads, this isn't even an option for them.

Now, the online GW rulebook FAQ allows characters coming in from reserve who arrive on the same turn as a unit to come onto the table embarked on the vehicle. However, this doesn't help Drop Pods since nothing gives the character the ability to start in Reserve in the first place.

This is why, by the RAW, Emperor's Champions in a BT army haven't been able to arrive via Drop Pod.

Now that DA characters (and presumably BA characters too) are all now suffering this same fate, if you were a tournament organizer how would you rule on this issue?

Would you rule by the RAW and not allow the Emperor's Champion, BA & DA characters to arrive via Drop Pod (i.e. they have to be deployed normally)?

Would you make an exception just for DAs and BAs and leave the poor Emperor's Champion out in the cold?

Or would you just make a blanket ruling allowing ICs in all Space Marine armies to join any unit in a Drop Pod before the game (assuming there is space), allow a single Reserve roll for them all, and allow them all to then arrive via Drop Pod?

(BTW, keep in mind that Jervis ruled in his unofficial DA FAQ the latter: that DA characters could join a unit in a Drop Pod and then one reserve roll is made for them all).

What say you?

RE: DA Characters and Drop Pods

Ozymandias — GMT

If I were running the event, I would go by what Jervis said and apply that to all SM armies. There we do know the "intent" rather than just assuming it.

And I don't think you are missing anything. There is a rule specifically allowing IC's in terminator armor to join Termi squads, but nothing about other IC's. The only thing mentioned is that Terminator armor counts as 2 models for Drop Pods. Since the only way to get a terminator into a Drop Pod is with an IC the intent seems to be to allow them to join.

Ozymandias, King of Kings

RE: DA Characters and Drop Pods

Lordhat — GMT

Just for the sake of fairness and fluff I would make the blanket ruling, but not only for SM's, but any I.C. in a similar situation. It just seems right that a model with the ability to join any unit during a game (and therefor use it's transports) should be able to start that way as well. This is especially true in light of the escalation rules where it's most advantageous to have your entire army start the game either in reserve or on the board.

RE: DA Characters and Drop Pods

Beast — GMT

Posted By yakface on 06/19/2007 4:26 PM

Or would you just make a blanket ruling allowing ICs in all Space Marine armies to join any unit in a Drop Pod before the game (assuming there is space), allow a single Reserve roll for them all, and allow them all to then arrive via Drop Pod?

(BTW, keep in mind that Jervis ruled in his unofficial DA FAQ the latter: that DA characters could join a unit in a Drop Pod and then one reserve roll is made for them all).

What say you?

What you said... Any other ruling is a bit asinine IMHO.

RE: DA Characters and Drop Pods

Reecius — GMT

IIRC, doesn't the most recent FAQ state that you work out which unit characters will start the game attached to? I dont have the FAQ here but i seem to recall a passage that says you can choose to have IC's join units before the game starts and can enter with them in their transport.

Is my memory being faulty on that?

RE: DA Characters and Drop Pods

DaIronGob — GMT

You have the majority of it correct however it says that you have to roll for the IC separately and can then add the IC to any unit that is deploying one that turn.

The contradiction here is that there would be no rule allowing the IC on it's own to be kept in reserve for a drop pod assault in the first place... since IC's can't use the DP on their own they would have no reason to be held in reserve unless the mission uses that rule...

...which would mean that if the mission also uses the reserves rule you should be able to keep the IC in reserve and if a DP becomes available the same turn as the IC, you would then be able to put the IC in the DP as long as there is room.

RE: DA Characters and Drop Pods

Reecius — GMT

Ah, ok. That is pretty lame.

I would say on principle that yes, a SM character would remember to get in the stupid drop pod before they get ready for battle instead of strolling on to the battle field by himself.

But as far as rules go, i can see the predicament. I guess it would just come down to a house rule. and to answer Yak's question, i would have to vote yes, they could join the unit before hand and come in with one reserve roll. Anything else just doesnt not make much sense and only detracts from the game.

RE: DA Characters and Drop Pods

DaIronGob — GMT

I agree. IMO allowing the IC to start the game inside another unit would then allow the IC to use th transport option the unit has purchased, as long as there is room. If it is a drop pod then the IC rides along in the drop pod much the same is if they selected a Rhino or Landraider.

Since it's the transport that is doing to dropping this would not contradict the rule where IC's cannot use the special rules applied to a unit (like infiltrating) unless the IC has that rule as well. Forgive my horrid paraphrasing of that, I don't not have the BBoR with me at work, but I pray that you all understand my meaning.

RE: DA Characters and Drop Pods

Reecius — GMT

Ah but wait, what if i put an IC with a jump pack attached to a tac squad in a drop pod, dropped them in, next turn detached the IC and let him run rampant through a gunline? that is pretty insane.

RE: DA Characters and Drop Pods

Reecius — GMT

For that matter, with the same logic, why couldnt you attach an IC with a jump pack to a Termie squad, deepstrike them together and do the same thing?

I have to be wrong in that. Does anyone know of a rule that prohibits those types of action?

RE: DA Characters and Drop Pods

DaIronGob — GMT

That a trick question?

What I mean is the part about the Jump Pack in a transport... for some reason, that doesn't seem legal. Maybe it's an old feeling from 3rd.

But I don't see why you wouldn't be able to do the latter... since both the Terms and the IC are able to 'deepstrike'. Seems fine.

RE: DA Characters and Drop Pods

Reecius — GMT

Nope, i may just be really dumb and not remembering a very obvious rule prohibiting that from happening.

Is there a rule disallowing an IC with a jump pack getting into a Pod?

RE: DA Characters and Drop Pods

DaIronGob — GMT

That's what I was thinking myself... but some reason I seem to be spacing it out but I believe there is a rule preventing any model with a Jump Pack getting into a transport.

But I see nothing that would prevent a Jump Pack IC 'deepstriking' in with a unit of Terminators. There is nothing preventing this even though one is teleporting on the field and the other is coming in from a T-Hawk... *mode* of 'deepstriking' is not factored in. The fact that both the IC and the Terms CAN Deepstrike (and both make their reserve roll on the same turn) is the only requirement.

RE: DA Characters and Drop Pods

Reecius — GMT

Even aside from the propsed situation of attaching a character to a sqaud, could you put a IC with a jump pack plus his command squad into a drop pod? that would give the squad a lot more reach to engage enemy units on the charge, plus perform multiple charges.

My friend runs an infiltrating command squad with a chappy with a jump pack to get an extra few inches of reach and set up a first turn charge.

The unit infiltrates 12" away from an enemy unit, they move forward 6", the chappy jumps 2" beyond the furthest model, plus has an extra 1" for his base, then charges 6" giving you about a 15" range, easily enough to engage an enemy unit and get a first turn charge. It doesnt always work if you are in difficult terrain, and often the chappy clears his kill zone leaving him out in the open, but against high Ld enemies not likely to run away, it gets them locked into combat right away.

You could use an IC in a pod with a jump pack to do the same thing and give you more reach out of the pod, or detach him and let him run rampant.

I cant think of a rule off hand that prohibits a model with a jump pack getting in a pod. I could be totally wrong though.

RE: DA Characters and Drop Pods

Ozymandias — GMT

I don't have the rules in front of me, but I think the Jump Pack item disallows use of transports. Otherwise, you could do the same thing with a Rhino.

Ozymandias, King of Kings

RE: DA Characters and Drop Pods

Reecius — GMT

yeah, i cant think of a reason why a Jump pack IC couldn't attach to a termie unit and deepstrike with it, unless there is a rule that i cant remember. If a character can opt to join a unit before the game starts and there is no restriction on types of units joining each other (such as no power armor characters joining termie squads, which i dont think there is) and they both have the deep strike special rule then i dont see why they can't both enter together.

You probably wouldnt make any friends if you did this though.

But you may be right about the no JP's in transports rule. I dont have my book here so i could be totally wrong on that one.

RE: DA Characters and Drop Pods

Reecius — GMT

I don't have the rules in front of me, but I think the Jump Pack item disallows use of transports. Otherwise, you could do the same thing with a Rhino.

yeah, the more i think about it, the more i think that is the case.

People would have done that long ago if that was the case.

RE: DA Characters and Drop Pods

DaIronGob — GMT

See the problem with what your friend is doing is the rule that states a unit moves as fast as it's slowest member.

Therefore the Chappy, regardless of Jump Pack would only be able to move up to 6" not 6" +2" to remain in coherency.

Plus the whole "he has an extra 1" for his base" would implicate that your friend is measuring the movement distance from the front of the base at the start of the move and then ending with the rear of the base touching the 6" mark.... which is a big no no.

RE: DA Characters and Drop Pods

Reecius — GMT

states a unit moves as fast as it's slowest member.

Ill have to look that up. I did not know that, but it makes sense. and the unit was the epitomey of bending the rules as it stood.

Also, the extra inch comes from measuring the 2" squad coherency distance from the front of the furthest squad member's base to the back of the chappies base, the chappy actually only moves 9" from fron to front of his base, within the 12" the jump pack allows.

RE: DA Characters and Drop Pods

Slyde — GMT

yep, in that situation the chappy cant use his jump pack unless every man of the command squad is killed off.

RE: DA Characters and Drop Pods

yakface — GMT

Page 62 of the rulebook specifies that only infantry may embark on a transport unless the transport's rules specify otherwise.

Models with Jump Packs are Jump Infantry and therefore are not allowed to embark on vehicles.

RE: DA Characters and Drop Pods

DaIronGob — GMT

Thanks Yak, I knew it was there, just didn't have it readily available.

RE: DA Characters and Drop Pods

Reecius — GMT

well that settles that. It was a pretty beardy idea anyway, probably better that it can't be done.

Yak, what do you think about an IC with a jump pack joining a termie squad, is that permissable?

RE: DA Characters and Drop Pods

yakface — GMT

Posted By Reecius on 06/20/2007 12:52 PM

Yak, what do you think about an IC with a jump pack joining a termie squad, is that permissable?

I don't see why not.

But back to the original premise, it seems that most people agree that if they were running a tournament they'd allow characters to attach to units arriving via drop pod ahead of time.

But if you do so, isn't it unfair to other characters in other races (or even non-drop pod space marine armies)? Would you also make a blanket ruling that any character can join any unit before the game and have them all make a single reserve roll together? Or would you allow this ability to be reserved only for Drop Pod units?

Cause we're talking about a serious change in the reserve rules here.

RE: DA Characters and Drop Pods

Reecius — GMT

I would have to vote yes, it would have to be a blanket rule for all races, otherwise it is an unfair ruling for other armies.

RE: DA Characters and Drop Pods

kadun — GMT

What about this situation. As Imperial Guard I take the Drop Troops doctrine. I also take a Witch Hunter Cannoness with Jump Pack as an allied HQ. Could I attach the Cannoness to an Imperial Guard Infantry Squad before the game and elect to have the unit Deep Strike with the Drop Troops doctrine?

RE: DA Characters and Drop Pods

Reecius — GMT

Since both units can deepstrike and you buy into JJ's interpretation of the rules, then i would say yes.

If an IC with a jump pack comes in with termies then do they all benefit from T.Hommers?

That gets pretty strange.

A chappy with L.Claws deepstriking with termies can be devastating to shooty units. and after deepstriking can reach all over an enemies deployment zone, plus cant be shot thanks to being in a unit.

Although you can already do the same thing right now with an assault squad so its not all that strange, its just being able to attach the character to the unit that makes it so powerful as he cant be targeted when he deepstrikes with his squad, then he can sperate.

RE: DA Characters and Drop Pods

coredump — GMT

I would have to vote yes, it would have to be a blanket rule for all races, otherwise it is an unfair ruling for other armies.

But even then, some armies would not benefit from this change; and some would barely benefit. What if we made a 'fair' ruling that rending worked on a 5 or 6; it would apply to all armies equally.....

RE: DA Characters and Drop Pods

PapaNurgle — GMT

Yak,

If I were running a tournament and this came up before hand, I would make the following rule addition:

Any independent character may be attached to any squad with a transport, as long as there is room within the transport, and the two choices make a single roll for reserve. This must be stated in the army list and may not be changed between games.

With escalation, if you go mechanized anything, you could end up with a lone character (farseer on foot, SM character, etc.) facing 1500 points of the opponent. Especially with the new list lay out, this goes a long way to adding flexibility to lists.

So yes, I would have it apply to BTs, SMs, and everything else.

RE: DA Characters and Drop Pods

Ozymandias — GMT

I agree w/ PapaNurgle. Plus its silly to think that a IC is going to "miss the bus" and walk on in a mech army.

Ozymandias, King of Kings

RE: DA Characters and Drop Pods

coredump — GMT

True, but are you changing game/rule balance for fluff reasons?

By allowing this, you are making some armies more powerful, and not others

RE: DA Characters and Drop Pods

blood angel — GMT

Posted By yakface on 06/20/2007 12:10 PM

Page 62 of the rulebook specifies that only infantry may embark on a transport unless the transport's rules specify otherwise.

Models with Jump Packs are Jump Infantry and therefore are not allowed to embark on vehicles.

What about Dante who in the new 'official' BA codex has two unit types. He is both Jump Infantry and Infantry. Crazy, huh?

RE: DA Characters and Drop Pods

yakface — GMT

I think that's a typo since they list 'unit type' in two different places.

Maybe they'll correct it when the PDF hits the net at the end of August.

RE: DA Characters and Drop Pods

blood angel — GMT

It's clearly a typo but I don't want to digress about how crappy the codex is.

But RAW would state that he can be stuck in a drop pod and also be deployed on the board in escalation.

And if you're logic about sticking ICs with squads before the game starts could Karrandras infiltrate a unit of Harlequins or guardian storm squad with an Autarch or Eldrad in it?

Btw, i agree with being able to associate ICs with squads before the game starts. Its a very logical way of doing it.

RE: DA Characters and Drop Pods

Beast — GMT

Posted By Reecius on 06/20/2007 9:45 AM

My friend runs an infiltrating command squad with a chappy with a jump pack to get an extra few inches of reach and set up a first turn charge.

The unit infiltrates 12" away from an enemy unit, they move forward 6", the chappy jumps 2" beyond the furthest model, plus has an extra 1" for his base, then charges 6" giving you about a 15" range, easily enough to engage an enemy unit and get a first turn charge. It doesnt always work if you are in difficult terrain, and often the chappy clears his kill zone leaving him out in the open, but against high Ld enemies not likely to run away, it gets them locked into combat right away.

You could use an IC in a pod with a jump pack to do the same thing and give you more reach out of the pod, or detach him and let him run rampant.

I cant think of a rule off hand that prohibits a model with a jump pack getting in a pod. I could be totally wrong though.

p. 15 of BBB- "All models in a unit move at the speed of the slowest model."

p.62 BBB- "Only infantry may embark in transports unless the transporting vehicle's rules specify otherwise."

edited: sorry, I was a little too eager to throw my $.02 in before I read the rest of the posts...

Reecius- your friend who runs that Cmd Sqd w/ jumppack guy isn't playing by RAW (and some would say he is cheating). Surprised people haven't called him on it if he does that regularly. But, for the rest, I see that my quotes are now redundant as they have been covered already...

RE: DA Characters and Drop Pods

Reecius — GMT

Yup, and i feel stupid for bringing it up like it was a great idea! Oh well, thanks for clarifying, and next time he uses it, ill let him know that it is not kosher. it always seemed abusive anyway.

Only infantry may embark in transports unless the transporting vehicle's rules specify otherwise

And that was sheer speculation on my part about the possibility of an IC getting in a pod with JP. I should know better than to run off on a wild tangent without checking the book to see if it is even allowed within the rules.

However, on that point, i see nothing prohibiting an IC capable of deepstriking from joining a unit before the game starts (under this house rule) and deepstriking together as a unit. The only real benefit to that though is protecting the IC from being shot the turn he drops in.

And if you're logic about sticking ICs with squads before the game starts could Karrandras infiltrate a unit of Harlequins or guardian storm squad with an Autarch or Eldrad in it?

That is a pretty different situation. We were talking about placing units in reserve together. That is altogther different from starting units together on the board, although you can deploy an IC as starting the game attached to a squad. However, IIRC, the BGB states that infiltration is lost if all members of a unit do not posses the baility. Unless Karandras' rules tates that any unit he joins gains infiltrate (and i dont htink it does), then it doesnt hold water.

RE: DA Characters and Drop Pods

DaIronGob — GMT

And if you're logic about sticking ICs with squads before the game starts could Karrandras infiltrate a unit of Harlequins or guardian storm squad with an Autarch or Eldrad in it?

Basically what Reecius said. All models would need to have the same special rule you are using for the particular movement mode/ deployment method for this to work.

Taking your example you'd need to have Infiltrate on every IC and for the Unit for it to work.

Take CSM (I know their rules better than the Eldar at the moment.)

A Chaos Lord has Infiltrate.
The LT also has Infiltrate.
A unit of CSM has Infilitrate.

The Lord and LT may both join the CSM unit and Infiltrate as long as the mission allows it.

But I don't think I've answered the question posed by Yak...

But if you do so, isn't it unfair to other characters in other races (or even non-drop pod space marine armies)? Would you also make a blanket ruling that any character can join any unit before the game and have them all make a single reserve roll together? Or would you allow this ability to be reserved only for Drop Pod units?

Yes I would allow the placement of an IC into a unit per the IC rules, even if in reserves, and allow for ONE roll to be used for the entire combination.

To me (uh oh, DIG is about to say the word logic..), logically, before a battle a leader would choose where to be and what unit to be with! Every WH40K Novel I've read has supported this logic being transferred into the 40k Universe... so yes logically (uh oh he said it again, and he's speaking of himself in the third person) I would choose to allow it for any army.

RE: DA Characters and Drop Pods

coredump — GMT

But again... and I have posed this question 3 times now... rules are only partially on fluff, but need balance.

If you allow this 'advantage' to armies that often use IC's and transports, you are providing an advantage to certain armies, and not others. Thus upsetting the 'balance'.

RE: DA Characters and Drop Pods

DaIronGob — GMT

Which is why Yak asked if one would allow this to be used as a blankey rule for every army.

It's a opinion based question. If you are not for it then your answer would be a resounding "no".

I feel that this would best be applied to every army out there, not just the Space marines and their brethren.

RE: DA Characters and Drop Pods

Phoenix — GMT

Keep it fair guys. This is all fine and dandy to say you space marine character can get into the transport with his troops but what about other armies? Can a dark eldar lord join a squad of warriors on their raider? Can a farseer join a squad of banshees in their waveserpent, or dragons in a falcon? If you are going to break the rules as they are for marines, you'll have to do it for everyone to keep it fair.

RE: DA Characters and Drop Pods

Lordhat — GMT

Phoenix, You should read the entire thread. Nobody's saying that we should only let SM's do this.

RE: DA Characters and Drop Pods

coredump — GMT

I am sorry, I didn't make my point clear.

I am assuming it would be a rule for all armies, not just drop pod, and not just SM.

But my point is, for some armies this ruling means "YAHOO!", for some armies it means "Cool...", for some armies it means "eh..so what"
So even though it is 'applied' to all armies, it only makes *some* armies better.

For example, lets say that SM army was playing a Nid army, and this ruling was going to be used. It would (greatly?) help the SM player, but not help the Nid player at all; eventhough it is applied 'fairly' to both armies.

As I mentioned earlier, it is like expanding Rending to work on a 5 and a 6. Sure it applies to all armies, but that same Nid player is a whole lot happier than the SM player

Just because a rule is applied to all armies, doesn't make it a 'fair' ruling. Now, I am not sure how many armies would benefit a lot, how many a little, and how many almost none... but I think it is an issue to address.

Some rules decisions are made for game balance reasons; when you change those rules it effects the game balance; even if the change 'makes sense' according to fluff.

RE: DA Characters and Drop Pods

yakface — GMT

Coredump:

I definitely agree that some armies benefit from this change more than others.

I am curious, what would you do if you were running a tournament that was using Escalation and had to make a ruling?

1) Would you say that all ICs (without attached retinues) can't use Drop Pods at all unless they are somehow in reserve and show up at the same time as a drop pod? This leaves DA and BA ICs out in the cold of having no way to show up in a Drop Pod (not to mention the Emperor's Champion in BT armies).

2) Would you say that BA and DA characters only can attach to units before the game only in order to use Drop Pods? This then leaves BTs as the only marine chapter unable to completely arrive via drop pod (because the EC can't take a retinue).

3) Would you allow all marine ICs without retinues to attach to units before the game only in order to use Drop Pods? This obviously allows regular marine armies to do without Command Squads in order to allow their ICs to land via Drop Pod.

4) Would you allow all ICs in all armies to start attached to units in reserve?

I don't think there is necessarily an easy answer (they all have pros and cons). I'm just curious as to what someone with a dissenting opinion would choose to do and why.

RE: DA Characters and Drop Pods

Janthkin — GMT

1) Would you say that all ICs (without attached retinues) can't use Drop Pods at all unless they are somehow in reserve and show up at the same time as a drop pod? This leaves DA and BA ICs out in the cold of having no way to show up in a Drop Pod (not to mention the Emperor's Champion in BT armies).

This one gets my vote. Kinda sucks for DA/BA players, but most armies have some rule that's unfortunate for them. For tournaments, I dislike changing rules, in the absence of a contradiction.

RE: DA Characters and Drop Pods

DaIronGob — GMT

But my point is, for some armies this ruling means "YAHOO!", for some armies it means "Cool...", for some armies it means "eh..so what"
So even though it is 'applied' to all armies, it only makes *some* armies better.

I don't see how the 'effects' of this to one army vs another are relevant. There are plenty of blanket rules that make some armies better than others. Not every army have access to "melta" weapons, skimmers, transports etc.

Granted the situation arose from SM Drop Pod armies but that's where the decision would need to be made. In an effort of fairness you grant this decision to all armies and then so be it. I don't see how it would need to make all armies "better" in order for it to be "fair".

No one is trying to make the SM 'better', they are trying to come up with a decision on how to handle a particular situation. Big difference.

RE: DA Characters and Drop Pods

Janthkin — GMT

Because we're talking about modifying the rules, in order to grant a couple armies the ability to do something that, by RAW, they cannot do. The question was whether, as a tournament judege, the rules should be amended.

Most armies have differences, yes. But those are designer-introduced differences. Like them or not, it's the ruleset we've chosen to play by. But most of the time, when going to a tournament, you won't come up against a legitimized house rule that gives one or two armies an extra advantage, not included in the basic rules.

No one is trying to make the SM 'better', they are trying to come up with a decision on how to handle a particular situation. Big difference.

On the contrary: the proposed "handling" of this situation does indeed make things "better" for DA & BA players, by effectively writing in a rule for their benefit.

RE: DA Characters and Drop Pods

yakface — GMT

But at the same time, by sticking with the RAW in this case we're effectively saying that only vanilla marine chapters (and Space Wolves) have the ability to bring a fully drop pod borne force, something that is pretty clearly not correct by the designer's intent (I think a vast majority of players would agree with that statement).

That's why I kind of lean towards allowing BA & DAs (and the Emperor's Champion in BT armies) to join dro pod units before the game but only those armies and only in the case of drop pods.

While it is a little inconsistent the ruling affects the fewest number of armies as possible but still allows DAs & BAs (and Templars) to field full Drop Pod armies if they want (something I think most players would agree should be allowed).

The stance I'm thinking of is less of a tournament judge springing this ruling on players but more of a tournament organizer making a ruling before the tournie that makes the most people happy about playing in the tournament.

RE: DA Characters and Drop Pods

DaIronGob — GMT

On the contrary: the proposed "handling" of this situation does indeed make things "better" for DA & BA players, by effectively writing in a rule for their benefit

Look out side the box. It's not improving more than fixing. Is bringing those particular armies up to speed with the other books. If that means to one that they're now better then I guess so be it. But realize that others are going to see it as the effected armies are "catching up".

And again as Yak and I have pointed out several times this is an opinion as to how we would handle it if we were organizing a tournament BEFORE the situation arises in said tourney. We are by no means saying that this is RAW. Yak is a smart guy and has been able to take ideas such as my idea for a Dakkadakka style FAQ (Yak FAQ) and this is one of those situations that I believe would benefit from a revision. Not to give the Dark Angels or Blood Angels MORE of a benefit but to at least FIX an obvious problem.

RE: DA Characters and Drop Pods

coredump — GMT

I have been thinking about this. And what it comes down to is... I don't know.

I know *how* I would decide, but I really don't have enough familiarity with enough races/codices to be able to judge how much of a difference this will make. Or how much of a difference *not* doing it will make.

I know that it will make the BA DA armies stronger, and I know it will have absolutely no effect on the Tyranid army. But that doesn't necessarily mean it should not be used.

I brought up my 'objection' not because I felt the ruling (any of them) were not correct; just that people seemed to feel that if they make the ruling available to all armies, then it was a fair decision.

Yak, you last post is the kind of logic I would want to use to make the decision. Letting some armies be playable, without making other armies be overpowered. I just don't know enough to tell if what you suggest accomplishes that.

RE: DA Characters and Drop Pods

Ozymandias — GMT

I'm gonna agree w/ Yak's ruling on this one. It makes sense, I don't think it is that overpowering as SM's can do it already and it looks like an oversight to me on the part of the design team to not allow it for DA/BA/Emp. Champ.

Off topic: Yak, if you are ever up to SLO to visit Matt Reid, let me know, I'd love to get a game in.

Ozymandias, King of Kings

RE: DA Characters and Drop Pods

DaIronGob — GMT

I just don't know enough to tell if what you suggest accomplishes that

Maybe we could find someone from the boards that may be able to test it out? Anyone know of anyone running a tourney in the next month or so?

RE: DA Characters and Drop Pods

Janthkin — GMT

Et tu, Yakface? Yup, we're saying that. And it's something that BA/DA players would be aware of, and have to plan for accordingly. Just because it's a) inconvenient and/or b) inconsistent with other dexes, doesn't mean we arbitrarily change it. I'm pretty sure GW didn't mean for Ogryn to be utterly worthless, but I'm not asking for "Immune to Instant Death", even though it was handed out to special characters in the new dexes like candy. Nor do I beg for a SoB statline for my stormtroopers, who deserve it.

We have the RAW. The RAW provides that, for whatever reason, these armies aren't given quite the same options as normal SM armies. It may well be an oversight, in which case GW can exercise their "newly announced" FAQ policy to fix it.