<![CDATA[Latest posts for the thread "First shot at a WHFB list from a 40k player. Lizardmen"]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/93.page JForum - http://www.jforum.net First shot at a WHFB list from a 40k player. Lizardmen
Ancient Scar-Leader Kroq-Gar

Core:

2x Units Saurus Heavy Cav -eight in each, musician might split it to 3 units of 5

3x Jungle swarm bases

Special:

2x Units Saurus Warriors, 16 in each. Standards and champs.

Rare:

1x Steggadon

]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/208186/249868.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/208186/249868.page GMT Re:First shot at a WHFB list from a 40k player. Lizardmen Ancient Scar-Leader Kroq-Gar

as good as he is, taking an oldblood with carnisaur would be better. there are alot of options you can take with this. rank and file killer, character nuker, etc. overall the oldblood beats out kroq gar IMO.

Core:

2x Units Saurus Heavy Cav -eight in each, musician might split it to 3 units of 5

these will be moved to special, not a problem. i run 2 units, but not till i hit the 4000 point mark. take one to start, make it a 6 wide unit with full command and the banner of huanchi. this way you can get a really nice charge. the trick is to not charge in the charges phae, but to rush up 18 then blow off the banner in the magic phase, getting that charge is sweet. saurus riders are really great on the charge. 11 str 5 attacks is preyy awesome.

3x Jungle swarm bases

garbage. the new crumble rule makes swarms even wrse then useless, use these as paperweights or throw them at someone you dont like.

Special:

2x Units Saurus Warriors, 16 in each. Standards and champs.

bump up to 20 with full commands. you want a 5 wide frontage to get the rank bonuses. take the HW and shield option always. use sacred spawning in higher poinsts, usually tepok to get extra dispel dice if your running an assault bsed HQ. fat frogs can take the magic phase on his own mostly. if you dont run the slann, you need some scared spawning support from the units who can take them.

Rare:

1x Steggadon

great to run with the carni lord. the low ld. is an issue for the stegie though. yeah he is stubbron, but still its ld5 on 3 dice, not to great. i would recommend salamanders at start as your first rare choice. 3 sallies and crew run you alot less then the steggie, and will do alot ore dmamage if used right. dont forget that sallies cause fear, and arn't horrible in CC. when the choice comes to shoot or charge, shooting is sually the option, but dont forget that they arny bad in cc as well.

i hope i helped you in some way. welcome to lizardmen, it was my first army when i started playing WHFB, and now im nearing 6000 points of the buggers. here is a list i made on the spot, basing it on what you have and what i suggested:

2000 point lizardmen

Oldblood on carnosaur W/ SS Itzl, SS Old Ones SS Sotek, Light armor, Scimitar of sun Replescent, Enhcnated shiled, glyph necklace.

this is your basic oldblood on a carnosaur. note that he will have 8 strenght 5 attacks on the charge, that does not include the dino. this si a rank and file killer, but wont do to shabby against anything else as well. if your playing heavy armor or something, i would take the blessed blade of tzunki for the str 6 "powerweapon" instead, switching out his ward save or something. notice i took sacred spawning of sotek, this is for the extra attack on the charge, mark of the old ones gives your re-rolls, save those for your armor and ward saves. your armor is solid, and you have a 5+ ward, dont forget your re-rolls!

Saurus Scar Vet W/ SS quetzl SS sotek, great weapon, light armor, shield, Talisman of protection and Jaguar charm

this is a textbook JSOD ( jaguar saurus of doom) sotek gives him the extra attack, questzl a lil more armor. jaguar charm is a lixzardmen staple, give the character a movment of 9. use this guy in conjuction with your saurus cav and or carno lord for combined charged. if you manage a flank chare with this bugger and a front charge with either of the other 2 fast units, the combat is almost guaranteed t go in your favor. remember, this guy roams alone, being he is US 1 (unit strength) units firing at him take an additional -1 to hit him, helps a lil. he also has a 6+ wardsave, just in case.

Skink Priest W/ Dispel Scroll x2

scroll caddy. with little magic defense, you need this guy around, keep him HIDDEN, use the scrolls to stop only the most destructive spells.

20 saurus warriors, HW and shield, SS of tepok
20 saurus warriors, HW and shield
13 skinks, pipes, scout
13 skinks, pipes, scout

this is your core section. the saurus blocks are solid, one has the SS of tepok to add a dispel dice to your pool, giving you 4 total, which isnt great, but its something.

the skinks are there to harass flanks, weak armor and such. dont be afraid to sacrifice them for a big hit from your lords if you can, alos make sure you use them to bait and switch, skinks are great for fleeing and catching chargers half way, leaving enemies open for charges from your characters and possibly the saurus blocks.

5 saurus cav, full command, Huanchi's blessed totem

hammer unit. i usually run korxigors in my special slots at low points, but if you wan tthese, they arnt to shabby. use the totem like i sad above, you should have no problem getting a charge off. be careful who you cahrge into, you dont have alot of static CD (combat resolution) so you just cant go into a 20 block of clanrats with some support. the trick is to get that combined charge with either the lord or the JSOD. this unit can handle a smaller unit alone, a weaked one, or something like that, but not a fully blocked 20 squad of stuff, especially if its packing a full commnd.

3 salamanders and crew

ah, my babies. i do love me some salamanders. these guys make the game for me alot. they can move and shoot, but not MARCH and shoot, so even though the range of 15 is short, its actually 21 inches of death. possibly 30 str 3 shots can come out of this unit, destroying ranked units, ticking off everything else. even though its str 3, it does make saves at -1 for some reason. great against almost anything out there i think. these are ou best rare choice by a long shot.

ENJOY!]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/208186/249882.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/208186/249882.page GMT First shot at a WHFB list from a 40k player. Lizardmen
As for money restrictions for the army there really aren't any, I am just about done with a year overseas so a few hundred isn't going to kill me, it is just a present to myself.

Thanks again]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/208186/250106.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/208186/250106.page GMT First shot at a WHFB list from a 40k player. Lizardmen
also, if you toss the carno lord at the giant, the giant will prolly bite it as well, between the lord and the crni. giants should not be an issue, on top of the fact that you seem to be playing against an ogre kingdoms giant, which isnt stubborn, so breaking it in combat is all the easier.

the crumble rule for swarms works like this. you have 3 swarm bases that charge something, you swing away and kill 2 models, they return and do 2 wounds. say they have a standard, and 3 ranks. they beat you by 4 in CR, your swarms take ANOTHER 4 wounds, no saves, this is the crumble rule. it makes swarms pretty worthless.

you have plenty of fast moving stuff already, between the JSOD, lord and cavalry, you should hve some decent maneuverability around the board.

if money isnt an issue, pick up 3 salies AND a steggy, try each out in a few games and see what you like. since this is a 2k list you can run a unit of each, just drop something else to fit the steggy in. like i sad though, your gonna want to keep the steggy near your general for that better leadership, else you risk your dino turning tail if he gets broken in combat.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/208186/250138.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/208186/250138.page GMT First shot at a WHFB list from a 40k player. Lizardmen
@Fear: If you don't mind painting alot, try getting a bunch of skinks. That's the thing I've been hearing since I first mentioned I wanted to play lizardmen: "Skinks, skinks, skinks, skinks, skinks, JSOD, Skinks, Skinks, etc..."]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/208186/250143.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/208186/250143.page GMT First shot at a WHFB list from a 40k player. Lizardmen
I have been playing Lizardmen since they came out, so welcome to the party!

I agree with taking smaller units of cav - they really are expensive.

A single jungle swarm base and 10 skinks cost the same, so I would probably take single swarm and 2 units of 10 skinks. That single swarm can be useful for tying up flanking units, teleporting skaven wizards and what not. Swarms are worthless against large blocks of infantry, as said before, but may have their uses against other targets.

And Dave has it right, vs. a giant, it's skinks all the way. Ogres same story. Anything that is high toughness and low save will fall to enough skinks.

You may want to consider a small unit (3) of kroxigar. They are the same price as 5 saurus cav, but have 9 wounds instead of 5 and are s7. They are slower, yes, but s7 can be really handy vs. chariots, war altars, etc, as a single hit will auto-destroy them. Also, they are aquatic, so you can really use terrain to your advantage with them. Also, you can take 2 wounds with your krox unit and still strike back with full attacks.



Just my 2 cents. Glad to see another lizard player.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/208186/250154.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/208186/250154.page GMT Re:First shot at a WHFB list from a 40k player. Lizardmen
I think what you've suggested offers a more flexible list which I am highly considering. It is a tough call between the steggy though. I guess I will have to play it out and see what works best. I am still worried about my friends dwarfs and their 2 cannon 2 bolt thrower with thunderers they seem to pick apart most anything but the sallys offer a counter punch to the lead belchers I had to deal with before. I think I will have to play it out a few times before I get a feel for what works better. Thanks again.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/208186/250160.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/208186/250160.page GMT Re:First shot at a WHFB list from a 40k player. Lizardmen
It usually pays to have some magic defense in any list (such as 1 level 1 wizard with 2 dispel scrolls aka scroll caddie), altough if you play vs dwarves the first few games you won't notice the need as stunties are the only army with zero offensive magic.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/208186/250304.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/208186/250304.page GMT First shot at a WHFB list from a 40k player. Lizardmen http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/208186/250481.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/208186/250481.page GMT First shot at a WHFB list from a 40k player. Lizardmen
fearengineer wrote:I assume that I will have to play a few times to get a feel for the army's strengths and weaknesses. I played my guard at least 4-5 times on my own before I started winning against my friends orks. Point being that I am sure I will be tweaking out a list for a good long while up to 3000 points or so is where I plan on stopping with it. So by that point I should have at least one of each type of unit to mix around and play with. Although I have thought about a 3k list already but I might reshape it and try the slann thing at higher points.


Firstly, 2000-2250 is the optimum size for good games (and tournament games too in general), so for starters you can try to build the army to that level. You can use 1000 and 1500 as a stepping stone, but the game gets indeed a bit more exciting when lord-level characters come around. The 3000 is a bit clunky but certainly fun if both players won't cheese out as this is painfully possible in larger games of FB due to missing the force-organization chart. You shouldn't build your initial list in 3k-level games in mind, though, as I said earlier 2k-level is all good. I'll give you a few examples what you can get for a good army selection:

1000:
Saurus Hero on foot (give him jaguar charm & stuff, decent charcater who certainly stays useable upwards to 3k)
Skink priest
2-3 Units of skinks (I like to keep these min.sized in all the games as they are throwaway-units)
10-20 Saurus warriors (to make at least 1 medium sized unit)
4 Kroxigor
5-6 Saurus Cav (Altough you probably won't have points for both in 1k, they'll often make appearances in pairs in larger lists)

In 1500 add:
Another Saurus Hero character (making bsb or regular hero on cold one is good, altough another plain foot character isn't bad either). It's good to notice that the hero models can be used as oldblood instead of scar-vet when/if the point size gets bigger.
Skink priest no 2
1 More Skink unit (4 units of 10 skinks starts to be the maximum you want to field in many cases, altough you could squeeze one or two more in when playing 3k)
Another Set of 10-20 Saurus Warriors
3 Terradons
3 Salamanders

In 2k add:
Slann
3rd and maybe 4rd caurus character (A good selection would be 2 on foot, 2 on cold one, one of which is the battle standard bearer).
Carnosaur dude
4 More Krox (units of 4 work best)
5-8 Chameleon Skinks
3 more Terradons
5-10 more cav (altough you usually see only 1 used with the huanchi banner even in a bit larger games)
Stegadon
3 more Salamanders

Towards 3k add:
10-20 More Saurus warriors, perhaps some temple guard
Maybe another steggy
With the options from earlier levels you can easily reach 3k, especially if you put loads of points to Slann (who can cost 600+ points on his own).






]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/208186/250506.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/208186/250506.page GMT First shot at a WHFB list from a 40k player. Lizardmen BSB), 4 skink units (2 scouting), 2 units of 4 krox, 2 units of 2 salamanders, and 2 skink priests.

at 2000pts you could easily just drop the sallies, or one of them and some of the saurus warriors (i'd recommend 6 off of each unit)

oh and saurus blocks should be made in blocks of 6 by how ever many ranks you've want (ex, 24, 18, 12), since the ranks are 5 now]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/208186/250594.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/208186/250594.page GMT First shot at a WHFB list from a 40k player. Lizardmen
Bastirous666 wrote:

oh and saurus blocks should be made in blocks of 6 by how ever many ranks you've want (ex, 24, 18, 12), since the ranks are 5 now


Because the ranks are by 5, you're fielding them by 6? I'm not saying you're wrong about your choice, but you have to admit that's a weird way of reasoning.

Also @ Chaos: only 4x10 skinks? You mean there's no reason for me to have 30 skinks w blowpipes, 20 w jav and 32 with shortbow? :(
And here I was thinking about buying me at least one other box to get to at least 5000 points.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/208186/250848.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/208186/250848.page GMT First shot at a WHFB list from a 40k player. Lizardmen
oh and skinks can't take short bows, and the javelins aren't nearly as good anymore. the blowpipes put javelins to shame any day]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/208186/250879.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/208186/250879.page GMT First shot at a WHFB list from a 40k player. Lizardmen
Vidar wrote:
Bastirous666 wrote:

oh and saurus blocks should be made in blocks of 6 by how ever many ranks you've want (ex, 24, 18, 12), since the ranks are 5 now


Because the ranks are by 5, you're fielding them by 6? I'm not saying you're wrong about your choice, but you have to admit that's a weird way of reasoning.

Also @ Chaos: only 4x10 skinks? You mean there's no reason for me to have 30 skinks w blowpipes, 20 w jav and 32 with shortbow? :(
And here I was thinking about buying me at least one other box to get to at least 5000 points.


As it was said, skinks can't have shortbows anymore. In any case 50 skinks is enough for anything apart from some silly southlands list, so having 30 /w blowpipes and 20 /w javelins & shields is pretty good selection. Regarding the saurus, they are a bit on the expensive side, so you'll rarely have points to spend just getting extra wounds to keep rank bonuses longer. I'll personally like just units of 15-20 but I haven't run multiple saurus units for a long time (usually just 1 as a bodyguard to slann/as an anvil).]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/208186/251028.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/208186/251028.page GMT First shot at a WHFB list from a 40k player. Lizardmen Guess they'll make a decent proxy in not-official tournaments where I decide to go crazy with skinks.

You think Sauri are really TOO expensive? Again, really should stop buying those then, since I have 20 4th edition HW+Shield, 29 new HW+shield and 24 new Spear+Shield. I really should start collecting all the rest, I guess.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/208186/251035.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/208186/251035.page GMT Re:First shot at a WHFB list from a 40k player. Lizardmen
3X10 skinks with blowpipes.

....and more if you have points for it.

Skinks are one of the best units in the game, period. When I see a lizardman army without skinks, I immediately assume 'oh, I can play this game on autopilot'. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/208186/251065.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/208186/251065.page GMT First shot at a WHFB list from a 40k player. Lizardmen http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/208186/251084.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/208186/251084.page GMT First shot at a WHFB list from a 40k player. Lizardmen
Vidar wrote:I never see Chameleon skinks though. Yet the only comments were on swarms. So how come chameleons are neither discussed as viable choices but neither as not decent?


The chameleons aren't crap, but because of various reasons they are often omitted. See the following ->

Pros: super-scout might come handy now and then, better bs than normal skinks altough with poison this isn't as good as it looks initially. Extra difficult to shoot with normal weapons.
Cons: Expensive (especially when you notice that they are pretty much normal skinks), take special slot, same thing can (almost) be accomplished with normal scouting skinks.

If you check the latter, you'll see why chameleons are often left to the shelf.
]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/208186/251134.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/208186/251134.page GMT First shot at a WHFB list from a 40k player. Lizardmen
for lizardmen at 2000-2250, there should be 4 units of 10 skinks (1 or 2 scouting) and two sizable saurus blocks. then you just fill in the rest with characters, kroxigors, teradons, stegadons, and salamanders.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/208186/251212.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/208186/251212.page GMT First shot at a WHFB list from a 40k player. Lizardmen http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/208186/251213.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/208186/251213.page GMT Re:First shot at a WHFB list from a 40k player. Lizardmen
Vidar wrote:

...were there units in Lustria normal lizardmenlists could use?


i don't quite understand your question. please explain more what you mean?]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/208186/251216.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/208186/251216.page GMT Re:First shot at a WHFB list from a 40k player. Lizardmen
CS (cameleon Skinks) can set up behind the enemy even if there is no terrain to do it with and march block in any game where the enemy doesn't have skirmishers to turn around and get them. Scouts can not do this.

CS can set up outside of terrain. Scouts can not do this.

CS can be inside 12". An opponent that goofs can have skinks within 2" of him on turn zero. Scout can not do this.

]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/208186/251221.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/208186/251221.page GMT Re:First shot at a WHFB list from a 40k player. Lizardmen
Bastirous666 wrote:
Vidar wrote:

...were there units in Lustria normal lizardmenlists could use?


i don't quite understand your question. please explain more what you mean?


I've been told there are extra unit options in the book Lustria. Something like an "Ancient machine of the Gods" and others. Yet again nobody talks about those. That makes me wonder if there actually are such unit options OR if they're a complete different list (like the Southland list). ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/208186/251228.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/208186/251228.page GMT First shot at a WHFB list from a 40k player. Lizardmen Is there somewhere a rule that skink priests may take other lores than the lore of heaven according to the spawning they took? ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/208186/251233.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/208186/251233.page GMT First shot at a WHFB list from a 40k player. Lizardmen
anyway as far as i know there is nothing that says a skink priest can use any other lores of magic especialy since they can't take any of the sacred spawnings, but if there is somethin g somewhere that says that then you should let me know, because i'd love to have a lot more shooting magic in my list.

you may want to look at the red host list from the lustria campaign because the skinks there get to be taken in bloack with mark of sotek etc. so that might say something about that if it does exist]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/208186/251235.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/208186/251235.page GMT First shot at a WHFB list from a 40k player. Lizardmen
Vidar wrote:And now I'm asking stupid questions about things I've heard:
Is there somewhere a rule that skink priests may take other lores than the lore of heaven according to the spawning they took?


There was a WD article, but it's generally not available for tournament games.

http://us.games-workshop.com/games/warhammer/lizardmen/gaming/sacredhosts/default.htm

]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/208186/251244.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/208186/251244.page GMT First shot at a WHFB list from a 40k player. Lizardmen http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/208186/251246.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/208186/251246.page GMT Re:First shot at a WHFB list from a 40k player. Lizardmen ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/208186/251257.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/208186/251257.page GMT First shot at a WHFB list from a 40k player. Lizardmen
I guess to simplify my question, what I am asking is how can I maintain the speed I was working with before and improve it.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/208186/251265.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/208186/251265.page GMT Re:First shot at a WHFB list from a 40k player. Lizardmen
my list would look something like this


Lords and Heroes
-scar vet: 154pts
blessed spawning of sotek and itzl, venom of the firefly frog, shield, light armor, and cold one

-scar vet: 158pts
battle standard, blessed spawning of quetzl, aura of quetzl, light armor

-skink priest: 135pts
lvl 2, diadem of power

-skink priest: 150pts
dispel scroll x 2

Core
-10 skink skirmishers: 70pts
scouts

-10 skink skirmishers: 70pts
scouts

-10 skink skirmishers: 60pts

-10 skink skirmishers: 60pts

-23 Saurus Warriors: 306pts
hand weapon, shield, full command

Special
-6 Saurus Cav: 240pts
musician, standard bearer

-5 saurus cav: 205pts
musician, standard bearer

-3 terradons: 195pts

-3 terradons: 195pts]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/208186/251285.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/208186/251285.page GMT