http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/93.page JForum - http://www.jforum.net MSU incorrectly but the best I've done yet is a draw points wise.. otherwise I've lost every single game I've played so far. and losing by combat res has been the breaking point for my army.

so is anyone willing to contribute some throughts or suggestions? I'd take anything from army list suggestions that would make my army a little more "noob" friendly to MSU tactics links, etc.

Thanks in advance!

NaZ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/209756/267049.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/209756/267049.page GMT
CHARACTERS.
Tyrant with tenderiser- no brainer- best item available to hime. Other itemd for flavor- usually the 5+ ward save. This guy lives in the maneater unit (their stubborn and his high ld, take the best)

3 butchers. Yes 3. One goes in each iron gut unit. Start upping toughness and stubborning units over causing panic or the st 2 hits no armour save (may want to if against brets). Give one a bangstick- essental item to add to shooting ability (essentially a magic missile). Butchers can fight but they are pretty average heroes.

CORE
3 uits of 3 iron guts- these guys cause the wounds and as the hiding places for your butchers should be getting first dibs at the magics 'upgradings')

3 units of 3 bulls. NO UPGRADES AS THEY ARE A WASTE OF POINTS. Keep them cheap, you will not care if they run away, but if you redirect to give your ironguts a flank charge or they get one off, brilliant. In deployment alternate them with ironguts and never be afraid to flee with them if they will set up a charge beneficial to you...

Scouting gnoblars- take 8, expect to do no wounds. They are there to scout and marchblock/ capture quadrant.

2 units of 20 gnoblars. Deployed in your quadrants (anywhere, but the favorite options are in the back corners or following the main line, just don't be in the way of the bulls when fleeing or you will panic). Why are they staying in your side/doing nothing.
A: The cost 40 points and either capture a 100pt quadrant or deny a quadrant to your opponent.
B: they are amonst the most pathetic troops in the game and your opponent will often kill enough of them to break your bulls. DO NOT SEND THEM TO COMBAT!!! (Fanatic releasers is about the only exception)
Line them out 2 long on table edge so if a flyer does go at them you stand and shoot with 20.

SPECIAL:
Leadbelcers.
2 units of 2. Just enough firepower to weaken flankers so they can't beat you. You are now essentially ogre bulls. Feel free to flee if need to set up a charge for another unit. Almost invariably on flank.

RARE:
3-4 Maneaters with brace of pistols. Tyrant lives here. AWESOME unit. Brace of handguns is great in combat and allows you more shooting- and a hell of alot of it (on the move with st4 aromur piercing weapons!)

Rhinoxen rider- this guy is brutal- I have run 2 from combat but never, ever managed to kill one. With butcher spells stubborn and increased toughness and a banner + warbanner this guy is for the points about the best thing in warhammer.

NOTE: The above army should be competative in any tourney- Low cost magic items on butchers are great i.e. bangstick and sword of might (+1 strength). Dispel scroll and sword of battle (+1 attack), Dispel scroll and biting blade (-1 armour save). Hellheart is gold against magic heavy armies: SAD, High elves, SMP lizzies, VCs in friendly games. I'd always have 2 dispel scrolls in every game I play and I alway use them.

Remember with MSU. You units are cheap (except the tyrant and maneaters). Never be afraid to run with any unit if it will set up a charge for you that will hammer the enemy. But think ahead and don't flee through your own units- panic is a nightmare for ogres. Avoid it if at all possible.

Hope this helps

]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/209756/267105.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/209756/267105.page GMT CR. Remember a 5 model wide unit of 20mm infantry will be faced off against all 3 iron guts and the bull as you should alwys try to maximise models.

I would take the bellowers in ALL units where available- allow +1 to rally and let you win drawn combats.

Standards only in iron guts units. Cuts down the number of standards your enemy can capture if you do lose. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/209756/267106.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/209756/267106.page GMT I'acctually leaning towards the OK now as they will be real quick to paint up. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/209756/267108.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/209756/267108.page GMT
much of what you said I already apply to large games. 3 butchers is mandatory at 2000 pts so is a tyrant with tenderiser.

I'll try the maneaters.. I have the models but they seem hella expensive points wise. also you don't use yetis?? odd choice but whatever.

I know fully MSU is much stronger.. but I'm struggling in using it effectively. probably because I need more games of fantasy under my belt.

I'm considering running 1 block of like 7 ironguts with the tyrant as the anvil with the magic warbanner. US of 24 plus 2 combat res from the banner. so I should be reliably able to generate combat res of 6-8 from that. (more if the tyrant overkills) then come in from the flanks with the smaller units of ironguts and bulls.

going out to get some fantasy today so I'll see how that goes

NaZ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/209756/267137.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/209756/267137.page GMT
Yhetees are not a favored option on the turney scene- consistently the top armies do not have them.
However in saying that I'd love to give them a try- a unit of 3 to plug a hole in the line caused by terrain.

Can you post an army list and we'll pick through it for you- trimming the fat.

]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/209756/267255.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/209756/267255.page GMT
interesting opinion on the yetis. someone gave me 3 blisters so I'm putting them together but if standard ironguts are better than so be it. having magic wpns though might be good against the now more popular etherials thanks to the VC mess.

NaZ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/209756/267322.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/209756/267322.page GMT