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		<title><![CDATA[Latest posts for the thread "1850 Space Marines, Tournament list"]]></title>
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				<title>1850 Space Marines, Tournament list</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ Please guys, I really need help here...I went up against Nidzilla with it, and barelly lost with it.  I killed 4/6 monsterous creatures before they slaughtered me.<br /> <br /> Here is what I'm thinking about running with:<br /> Positive:<br /> Heed the Wisdom of the Ancients<br /> Scions of Mars<br /> <br /> Negative:<br /> Eye to Eye<br /> <br /> <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(56);'>HQ</span>: Epistolary (9#, 555 Pts)<br />    1 Epistolary @ 555 Pts<br />       Force Weapon; Plasma Pistol (x1); Psychic Hood; Command Squad; Veil of Time<br />       1 Adamantine Mantle @ [35] Pts<br />       1 Psychic Hood @ [0] Pts<br />       4 Command Squad @ [380] Pts<br />          Bolter (x2); Meltagun (x2); Drop Pod; Terminator Honors<br />          1 Drop Pod @ [30] Pts<br />             Storm Bolter; Inertial Guidance System<br />          1 Apothecary @ [80] Pts<br />             Bolt Pistol (x1); Thunder Hammer (x1); Terminator Honors<br />             1 Narthecium @ [0] Pts<br />             1 Reductor @ [0] Pts<br />          1 Company Standard Bearer @ [80] Pts<br />             Bolt Pistol (x1); Thunder Hammer (x1); Terminator Honors<br />             1 Company Banner @ [0] Pts<br />          1 Sergeant @ [70] Pts<br />             Storm Shield (x1); Thunder Hammer (x1); Terminator Honors<br /> <br /> Elite: Venerable Dreadnought (1#, 133 Pts)<br />    1 Venerable Dreadnought @ 133 Pts<br />       Dreadnought <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(20);'>CCW</span>; Storm Bolter; Assault Cannon; Venerable; Extra Armor; Smoke Launchers<br /> <br /> Elite: Venerable Dreadnought (1#, 133 Pts)<br />    1 Venerable Dreadnought @ 133 Pts<br />       Dreadnought <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(20);'>CCW</span>; Storm Bolter; Assault Cannon; Venerable; Extra Armor; Smoke Launchers<br /> <br /> Troops: Tactical Squad (6#, 115 Pts)<br />    5 Tactical Squad @ 115 Pts<br />       Bolter (x3); Plasmagun (x1); Lascannon (x1)<br />       1 Sergeant @ [15] Pts<br />          Bolter<br /> <br /> Troops: Tactical Squad (6#, 115 Pts)<br />    5 Tactical Squad @ 115 Pts<br />       Bolter (x3); Plasmagun (x1); Lascannon (x1)<br />       1 Sergeant @ [15] Pts<br />          Bolter<br /> <br /> Troops: Tactical Squad (5#, 95 Pts)<br />    4 Tactical Squad @ 95 Pts<br />       Bolter (x3); Plasma Cannon (x1)<br />       1 Sergeant @ [15] Pts<br />          Bolter<br /> <br /> Troops: Tactical Squad (5#, 95 Pts)<br />    4 Tactical Squad @ 95 Pts<br />       Bolter (x3); Plasma Cannon (x1)<br />       1 Sergeant @ [15] Pts<br />          Bolter<br /> <br /> Heavy Support: Devastator Squad (5#, 145 Pts)<br />    4 Devastator Squad @ 145 Pts<br />       Heavy Bolter (x2); Missile Launcher (x2)<br />       1 Sergeant @ [15] Pts<br />          Bolter<br /> <br /> Fast Attack: Land Speeder Squadron (3#, 235 Pts)<br />    3 Land Speeder Squadron @ 235 Pts<br />       Heavy Bolter (x2); Multi-Melta (x1); Assault Cannon (x2); Heavy Flamer (x1)<br /> <br /> Heavy Support: Predator Annihilator (1#, 139 Pts)<br />    1 Predator Annihilator @ 139 Pts<br />       Twin Linked Lascannon; Heavy Bolter (x2); Extra Armor; Searchlight; Smoke Launchers<br /> <br /> Heavy Support: Whirlwind (1#, 90 Pts)<br />    1 Whirlwind @ 90 Pts<br />       Vengenance Missiles; Whirlwind Multiple Missile Launcher; Extra Armor<br /> <br /> Total Roster Cost: 1850<br /> ]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Mon, 31 Mar 2008 05:20:42]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ Sekai]]></author>
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				<title>1850 Space Marines, Tournament list</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ you've got a really wierd mix of vehicles, with many different roles. i'd try to get either all whirlwinds, all lad speeders or all preds, not a few of each. then you have almost no assault troops, and the ones you have are drop poding. you should try and mount everything in a pod or nothing at all.]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Mon, 31 Mar 2008 06:27:30]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ Bastirous666]]></author>
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				<title>1850 Space Marines, Tournament list</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ I'm curious as to why you took the traits you did. Aside from the two venerable dreadnoughts you are not utilizing any of the other benefits.<br /> <br /> As was said above you have alot of diversity in your choice of vehicles and weapons within squads, which can be a good thing.  However, I have found that anything but tactical squads works best when focused on one task.  My suggestion: take 4 of the same type of weapon in the devastator squad and focus it on one task.  Similarly, keep your vehicles and vehicle squads focused on either infantry or armor hunting.<br /> <br /> You also have an extremely expensive command squad.  Generally it's better to keep those simple since they are just marines and thus have the same vulnerabilities.  I'd reccomend dropping the banner and limiting yourself to just one thunder hammer.<br /> <br /> The last thing is more of a personal issue but I dislike the 5 man marine and devastator squad, especially devastators with 4 heavy weapons.  The issue is that the squads cannot sustain many casualties and continue to be effective or even score.  I realize the idea is to get your opponent to target multiple small squads, but my experience has been that this just doesn't work.  All it does is let your small squads get trashed.  Then again, I always put a heavy and special weapon in my tactical squads because I like them to be flexible.]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Mon, 31 Mar 2008 10:43:32]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ Dakkaladd]]></author>
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				<title>1850 Space Marines, Tournament list</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(56);'>HQ</span>: Techmarine Commander (1#, 150 Pts)<br />    1 Techmarine Commander @ 150 Pts<br />       Techmarine Commander; Power Weapon (x1); Bolter; Servo-Harness<br />       1 Artificer Armor @ [20] Pts<br />       1 Auspex @ [0] Pts<br />       1 Servo-Harness @ [35] Pts<br />       1 Signum @ [0] Pts<br />       1 Terminator Honors @ [15] Pts<br /> <br /> <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(56);'>HQ</span>: Techmarine Commander (1#, 150 Pts)<br />    1 Techmarine Commander @ 150 Pts<br />       Techmarine Commander; Power Weapon (x1); Bolter; Servo-Harness<br />       1 Artificer Armor @ [20] Pts<br />       1 Auspex @ [0] Pts<br />       1 Servo-Harness @ [35] Pts<br />       1 Signum @ [0] Pts<br />       1 Terminator Honors @ [15] Pts<br /> <br /> Elite: Venerable Dreadnought (1#, 140 Pts)<br />    1 Venerable Dreadnought @ 140 Pts<br />       Dreadnought <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(20);'>CCW</span>; Storm Bolter; Assault Cannon; Tank Hunters; Venerable; Extra Armor<br /> <br /> Elite: Venerable Dreadnought (1#, 140 Pts)<br />    1 Venerable Dreadnought @ 140 Pts<br />       Dreadnought <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(20);'>CCW</span>; Storm Bolter; Assault Cannon; Tank Hunters; Venerable; Extra Armor<br /> <br /> Troops: Tactical Squad (9#, 195 Pts)<br />    7 Tactical Squad @ 195 Pts<br />       Bolter (x5); Meltagun (x1); Heavy Bolter (x1); Drop Pod<br />       1 Drop Pod @ [30] Pts<br />          Storm Bolter; Inertial Guidance System<br />       1 Sergeant @ [45] Pts<br />          Bolt Pistol (x1); Power Fist (x1); Terminator Honors<br /> <br /> Troops: Tactical Squad (6#, 115 Pts)<br />    5 Tactical Squad @ 115 Pts<br />       Bolter (x3); Plasmagun (x1); Lascannon (x1)<br />       1 Sergeant @ [15] Pts<br />          Bolter<br /> <br /> Troops: Tactical Squad (6#, 115 Pts)<br />    5 Tactical Squad @ 115 Pts<br />       Bolter (x3); Plasmagun (x1); Lascannon (x1)<br />       1 Sergeant @ [15] Pts<br />          Bolter<br /> <br /> Troops: Tactical Squad (7#, 125 Pts)<br />    6 Tactical Squad @ 125 Pts<br />       Bolter (x5); Plasma Cannon (x1)<br />       1 Sergeant @ [15] Pts<br />          Bolter<br /> <br /> Troops: Tactical Squad (7#, 125 Pts)<br />    6 Tactical Squad @ 125 Pts<br />       Bolter (x5); Plasma Cannon (x1)<br />       1 Sergeant @ [15] Pts<br />          Bolter<br /> <br /> Heavy Support: Devastator Squad (6#, 230 Pts)<br />    4 Devastator Squad @ 230 Pts<br />       Heavy Bolter (x4)<br />       1 Sergeant @ [15] Pts<br />          Bolter<br />       1 Razorback @ [95] Pts<br />          Twin Linked Lascannon; Extra Armor<br /> <br /> Fast Attack: Land Speeder Squadron (3#, 235 Pts)<br />    3 Land Speeder Squadron @ 235 Pts<br />       Heavy Bolter (x2); Multi-Melta (x1); Assault Cannon (x2); Heavy Flamer (x1)<br /> <br /> Heavy Support: Predator Annihilator (1#, 130 Pts)<br />    1 Predator Annihilator @ 130 Pts<br />       Twin Linked Lascannon; Heavy Bolter (x2)<br /> <br /> <br /> How about this for a list then, taking in the advice of the posters above.]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Mon, 31 Mar 2008 16:01:33]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ Sekai]]></author>
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				<title>1850 Space Marines, Tournament list</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ alright now i have to say this looks better, but the techmarine commanders don't work well. on paper they look great, but in truth they don't do enough to buy their points back. go with a chaplain of librarian, or both as they will end up costing less than your techmarines.<br /> <br /> where are the techmarines going anyway? they shold be in squads or with servitor retinues, but you have neither. a good thing would be to take a libby in a squad in a drop pod with fear of the darkness. that way you can drop in and scare a bunch of his army away making your gun line have fire taken off of them for a turn maybe more.]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Mon, 31 Mar 2008 16:51:34]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ Bastirous666]]></author>
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				<title>1850 Space Marines, Tournament list</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ If you barely lost with your original list thiers an old Dakka saying "play better next time".  If I made any changes I would get rid of the pricey command squads and put in another lib and more las/<span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(166);'>plas</span> squads.  I would also give both libs J-packs to counter charge into <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(93);'>MC</span>'s and fury o ancients to snipe acrossed as many bugs as possible for wounds/armor saves.  I would stick with libs also because although they need a 6 to wound a <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(93);'>MC</span> if they do its a psych test and thier goes a <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(93);'>MC</span> in one pop.  <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(17);'>BTW</span> you do break your Land speeders up into 1 per unit for target priority tests right.]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Mon, 31 Mar 2008 17:05:55]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ Lemartes]]></author>
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				<title>1850 Space Marines, Tournament list</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ I still dislike the small squads but the list is much more focused. As has been said, one techmarine is probably enough for an <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(56);'>HQ</span>, that way you can run him alone or in the devastators for the reroll.  If you take two I'd also reccomend a servitor retinue either to back up the predator or kitted out for shooting.]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Mon, 31 Mar 2008 18:02:19]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ Dakkaladd]]></author>
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				<title>1850 Space Marines, Tournament list</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ You should think of taking big big <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(167);'>tac</span> squads with las/<span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(166);'>plas</span> and then knock out his <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(93);'>MC</span>'s, continue on to hand his 'stealers their own buttocks with the <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(51);'>HB</span>'s.  Also, fact of life, Dreds get murdered by anything with <span class="glossaryitem" onmouseover='gp(482);'>AT</span> weapons.  Take pred Annihalators.  They cost just about the same +/- 10 pts.  Sit them down somewhere and let the nids try to hurt your tuff front armour, then blow 'em butt first back to wherever they came from. ]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Mon, 31 Mar 2008 22:05:05]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ Two Daemons in a Bar]]></author>
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				<title>1850 Space Marines, Tournament list</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ agreed with two daemons on the preds. they will take those nids to town, and make less need for anti tank in the rest of your list]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Tue, 1 Apr 2008 02:20:57]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ Bastirous666]]></author>
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				<title>1850 Space Marines, Tournament list</title>
				<description><![CDATA[ The techmarines are going in the drop pods.  I don't want more predators because they die faster than a snail on salt.<br /> <br /> Wierdly enough, my VENERABLE DREADNOUGHTS have about 4x the survivability of those craptastic deathtraps.  I have quite enough anti tank in the list, more than I probably need.]]></description>
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				<pubDate><![CDATA[Sun, 6 Apr 2008 21:06:48]]> GMT</pubDate>
				<author><![CDATA[ Sekai]]></author>
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