<![CDATA[Latest posts for the thread "Tzeench CSM list for casual gaming"]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/14.page JForum - http://www.jforum.net Tzeench CSM list for casual gaming flg holds WHFB and 40K games every Friday after school/work/college etc, and I'm going to join the fun. I would bring my Necron list but my friend is packing his and I hate copying people. So I'm going to dig out my bitz box and some cash to assemble a working Tzeench list. I've got a good idea of what I'm going to include, but I don't have my codex with me at school so I'll add the pts value when I get home. Some colour suggestions would be appreciated.

HQ
Sorcerer Lord, with plasma pistol, meltabombs, familiar, Disc of Tzeench, MoT, Bolt of Change, Doombolt, and Warptime.

Elites
5 Possessed, with IoT.

Chaos Dreadnought, with Dreadnought CC weapon, extra armour, and Twin-Linked Lascannon.

Troops
9 Rubric Marines, Sorcerer has Doombolt.

9 Rubric Marines, Sorcerer has Doombolt.

9 Rubric Marines, Sorcerer has Doombolt.

Fast attack
10 Raptors, with two meltaguns, IoCG, champ with power weapon and meltabombs.

Heavy Support
8 Havocs, with 4 autocannons, and champ with combi-plasma gun.

Predator, with Twin-Linked Lascannon turret, twin-linked heavy bolter sponsons and Daemonic Possession.

Please give feedback on my list and I'll add the points later when I have mah 'dex.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/211795/292556.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/211795/292556.page GMT Re:Tzeench CSM list for casual gaming HQs. You should probably run a DP with wings, MoT, Warptime, and bolt of change. I love that combo, want to know why? It's only 200 points and to get the same thing on a Chaos Sorc it costs... 200 points. The MoT costs 10 less on the DP and I think in a Tzeentch list you can't let the DP slip by without giving him a try. He is good in every Chaos list, I know it sucks to hear everyone say "this list could benefit from a DP" but really all of them can and this one more so than others. Try one maybe two if you need some more tank busters/elite hunters. They can do it very effectively with Warptime and bolt of change.

Drop the possessed. They don't really fit a Tzeentch theme very well. I like the Dreadnought in this list. I think with the right bit of conversions he will really fit the theme very well. But I wouldn't underestimate an early game one. If he goes crazy he will be taking someone down. And that six really isn't a good thing either. That six makes you loose all strategic advantage the dreadnought had/has. I'd say if I've dissuaded you from the Dreadnought and possessed, and again you probably saw this one coming, two units of 5 termies with a reaper autocannon and a powerfist. Maybe give them an IoT if you can afford it (very pricey but good against a lot of lists).

I don't know what you mean by Rubric Marines (sorry if I'm being a nublet). But if your doing Tzeentch do two units of Thousand Sons and two units of 10 CSM. Give the CSM whatever you can afford in terms of weapons. Maybe each unit should have a heavy bolter and plasma guns to stay put and shoot, but that is what the Tsons will be doing. So I'd suggest just doing base marines.

The fast attack is right on the money. Your good to go there.

I don't see the havocs doing well you should, and again this is going to be a suggestion you see a lot, change them to Oblits. The reason being is that oblits cost a lot less for some very good survivable heavy fire power. The oblits are just much more cost effective than the havocs. The Predator might need to be given the boot as well, the first strike being theme and the second one being that he is looking like a points sink. If you decide to drop one or the other I'd say drop the havocs, the oblits do it for less and do it better. I like the way the predator looks, especially if you do it up all Tzeentch like. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/211795/292566.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/211795/292566.page GMT Tzeench CSM list for casual gaming http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/211795/292578.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/211795/292578.page GMT Tzeench CSM list for casual gaming
The Havocs all have Autocannons because they all have two-count them-TWO shots at strength 7. They can take down vehicles (especially those pesky skimmers), with ease due to the sheer number of strength 7 shots (8).
I am aware of the Fire Frenzy thing on the Dread that dissuades most people, but it's a risk I'm willing to take for power. I might just get lots of greenstuff and model him, or I can just get a Thousand Sons Dread off Forgeworld.
Rubric Marines are Thousand Sons, which, if you've read their fluff in the 'Forces of Chaos' section of the 'dex, is fairly obvious. I'll add some CSM later, probably with long-range weapons like Heavy Bolters and Missile Launchers to support the advance of my Rubric Marines, who can't use special/heavy weapons.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/211795/292581.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/211795/292581.page GMT Re:Tzeench CSM list for casual gaming
Typeline wrote:
Drop the possessed. They don't really fit a Tzeentch theme very well.


wow did that just get said. possessed are exactly what tzeentch armies in fluff have/would have. tzeentch is the lord of change (hence why his greater daemon is named as such), and they are all about sorcery and mutation. possessed are all mutation all the time. therefore for fluff possessed would fit perfectly. now if you wanted to go thousand son approach then you get guys that are dust in armor, but do not confuse that with how tzeentch works on normal marines]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/211795/292583.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/211795/292583.page GMT Tzeench CSM list for casual gaming http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/211795/292594.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/211795/292594.page GMT Tzeench CSM list for casual gaming CC unit.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/211795/292703.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/211795/292703.page GMT Tzeench CSM list for casual gaming
Your Sorc Lord is horrendously overpriced. Why do you need three psychic powers? You do realise you can still only use two? You realise, also, that your 15 pt plasma pistol will be useless whenever you're using the powers? Drop the familiar, the plasma pistol and the third power. Come to think of it, drop the Sorc, take a DP instead. Deadlier and cheaper. Can't hide, but that's okay--there are plenty of competing targets in your list.

You already know the Dread is sub-par. Still want to take him? More power to you, but why the plascannon? With three units of TSons, you have plenty of anti-MEq, and you have enough weight of fire to take down 2+ saves in the quantity they are usually encountered in. The TL las would be a better choice, I think, as you're sorely lacking in AT.

Possessed suck too, but again you're aware of that already. Still, if you're going to give them an IoT, you ought to get a few more of them. With 5, the per model cost is prohibitive. I would just drop the Icon and spend the points elsewhere.

PW + meltabombs on the Raptor champ doesn't make sense. 5 points more gets you a PF, making you more effective against both targets (usually). Also, with a unit this size, it'd be worthwhile to take an IoCG at least.

Your Havocs need more bodies. Take one casualty and you lose either the champ or an autocannon. That's awful. Also, lose the IoT. Havocs are the last unit to need it, since they ought to be sitting in cover anyway.

The Pred is craptastic. Don't get me wrong, they can be useful, but as anti-horde--their AT options are hideously overpriced. If you want serious tankbusting, get Oblits. Nurglitch will say it's boring and received wisdom, but that doesn't change a thing. Even if you want to avoid Oblits at all costs, the Pred is still inferior. You'd be better off changing the Havocs to two las, two ML (if four las is too expensive) and using the Pred for anti-horde.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/211795/292765.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/211795/292765.page GMT Tzeench CSM list for casual gaming AC's for increased shots. Give me 8 strength 7 shots over four strength 9 any day.
I WILL add a DP, in ADDITION to my Sorcerer. And read your unit options mate; Sorcerers can have 1 inital power, 1 from the Mark, and 1 from a familiar.
Dreadnoughts, sub-par? Only if you fire-frenzy near your own troops. Even then, he's going to be on the frontlines. I gave him another TL Las and a Heavy flamer though.
The Possessed have IoT for the 4+ invul save. Derrrr. And for power. Even if you don't get the dice roll you want, you still have a strength 5 squad with a 3+/4+ save. Worth it IMO.
Predators? Craptastic? Look, they're the only main battle tank Chaos has, and I'm intent on using at least one.
Also, I'm giving my Sorcerer a Disc of Tzeench. Mobility=Suvivability. He also has dropped his PP.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/211795/292783.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/211795/292783.page GMT Tzeench CSM list for casual gaming
Like I said, the Havocs have 4 AC's for increased shots. Give me 8 strength 7 shots over four strength 9 any day.


I agree with the sentiment, but the fact is you need some lascannons. You know this yourself, or you wouldn't have gotten the TL LC Pred, right? My point is that if you're going to take a Havoc squad and a Pred, it is way more cost-effective to make the Pred anti-horde and the Havocs anti-tank than vice versa.

And read your unit options mate; Sorcerers can have 1 inital power, 1 from the Mark, and 1 from a familiar.


They can buy three. They still only get to use two per turn.

Dreadnoughts, sub-par? Only if you fire-frenzy near your own troops.


No, all the time. It's true of loyalist Dreads too. Fire Frenzy just makes things worse.

Like I said, though, I don't take issue with its inclusion. It would be boring if everyone used exactly the same units.

The Possessed have IoT for the 4+ invul save. Derrrr.


"Derrr" indeed. You don't need to tell me what it's for; it's self-evident. My point is that with a 5-man squad, the IoT is terrible bang for your buck. Think about it: at 8 pts per model, you pay about 1/3 more to make your squad roughly 1/3 more survivable. How is that a good deal as opposed to just buying more bodies?

Predators? Craptastic? Look, they're the only main battle tank Chaos has, and I'm intent on using at least one.


Reading comprehension ftl? Read what I actually said. I'll help you along a little:

The Pred [i.e. the Pred you have in your lsit, not all Preds] is craptastic. Don't get me wrong, they can be useful, but as anti-horde--their AT options are hideously overpriced.


To sum up:

AC + twin HB Pred = good(-ish).

TL las + anything Pred = bad.

(Addendum: TL las + nothing else at all Pred = okay.)]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/211795/292794.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/211795/292794.page GMT Tzeench CSM list for casual gaming OK, how about increasing the size of my possessed squad to 6-10?
Ok, fine, I'll take some Oblits. Are they a 3-man plastic box-set, or metal blister packs?
Also, will try and surgically remove the TL Las from mah pred to put an autocannon on.
I'm still keeping the Dread. Will use him for tank-busting and HQ killing if the Raptors are busy.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/211795/292800.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/211795/292800.page GMT Re:Tzeench CSM list for casual gaming
Sorry, I tend to skip over text sometimes.


And I tend to be too abrasive sometimes. Sorry.

OK, how about increasing the size of my possessed squad to 6-10?


Well, it would make the IoT more worthwhile. As to the effectiveness of Possessed, enough has been said. I don't think you'll be throwing the game by using them, and this is for casual games after all.

Ok, fine, I'll take some Oblits. Are they a 3-man plastic box-set, or metal blister packs?


Metal, sadly. They are pretty damn pricey. You could try converting them from normal Termies instead.

Also, will try and surgically remove the TL Las from mah pred to put an autocannon on.


Maybe you ought to try magnetising the weapons when you've done that.

I'm still keeping the Dread. Will use him for tank-busting and HQ killing if the Raptors are busy.


No quarrel there. Just watch your (friendly) fire lanes.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/211795/292806.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/211795/292806.page GMT Re:Tzeench CSM list for casual gaming
Bastirous666 wrote:
Typeline wrote:
Drop the possessed. They don't really fit a Tzeentch theme very well.


wow did that just get said. possessed are exactly what tzeentch armies in fluff have/would have. tzeentch is the lord of change (hence why his greater daemon is named as such), and they are all about sorcery and mutation. possessed are all mutation all the time. therefore for fluff possessed would fit perfectly. now if you wanted to go thousand son approach then you get guys that are dust in armor, but do not confuse that with how tzeentch works on normal marines


Oh yeah whoops. When I think Tzeentch I always just go straight to the Thousand sons, very unchanging fellows made of dust an' all. Doesn't stop possessed from not being very good though. ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/211795/293027.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/211795/293027.page GMT Tzeench CSM list for casual gaming
Just plunk an old las cannon or melta gun or plasma pistol onto a tenticle or two and you are set. Magnatize that tentacle and you can swap them out to field as actual spawn(which I wouldn't suggest as spawn are not seen on the battlefield for a reason).

Remove the gun and add wings to a dreadnaught and you can have a really cool looking Demon Prince as well ... one that looks like he gets a 4+ invul save! I love my own converted dreadnaught model and hated never seeing it hit the field, so now I have a rampaging dreadnaught that was promoted to prince status. The army never hits the table without him. He gets kudos for being converted and you get points for not running two lash princes.(plus a Tzeench warptime prince is really good in HTH.)]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/211795/293043.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/211795/293043.page GMT