<![CDATA[Latest posts for the thread "Tomb Kings"]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/93.page JForum - http://www.jforum.net Tomb Kings http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/212989/309998.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/212989/309998.page GMT Tomb Kings Take multiple units of chariots, i sugest putting the king in one.
Take ubshapti, they are ausome when combined with tomb king magic.
Take all 4 chars, you need it
a prince is fine so long as he is with chariots and can always do somethin usefull with magic.
Two catapults firing twice each per turn is great fun.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/212989/310044.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/212989/310044.page GMT Tomb Kings http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/212989/310374.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/212989/310374.page GMT Tomb Kings
Must haves:
-King + 3 liches
-multiple chariot units (at least 2 little ones of 3, but more are fine)
-1-2 light horse units
-2 tomb swarms
-archer bunker
-5 carrion
-scrops
-SSC

the rest of the list is whatever you want to do, based on how you want to play.

The King does NOT have to be on a chariot, I have played with a Cloak on him for 18months now, and have won several tournaments with it - the King gets MUCH more from the cloak than a liche does anyway (who can buy an 8pt steed by the way, which the King cannot).

Cloak for king gives effective 26" inch range incantaions, isntead of his normal 10". Thats a +160% increase. A Liche goes from 20" with steed to 32" with cloak, only a +60% increase. The King will be able to use the cloak for 3D6 pursuit as well. Armed with a flail of skulls, giving himself magical movement, he is a real terror from turn 2 onwards!]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/212989/310390.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/212989/310390.page GMT Tomb Kings ]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/212989/311015.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/212989/311015.page GMT Tomb Kings TK can really create any style of list, but I will just now mention some unit combinations you can make use of, that are often over misunderstood:

2 Tomb Swarms: Fantastic unit. Always burrow them, and use them to mage hunt or warmachine hunt. Means that you never have to burrow your scorpions which is great (if you can avoid burrowing them its better, they are very good for combination charges if deployed normally). Can also be used for crossfires, which is great. In general, any unit that can quickly up the board and threatening is excellent for Tomb Kings, as you dont have to expend incantations on them to get good results.

4 Chariots with Standard and War Banner: Very solid inclusion, common in many builds. I swaer by it, but I dont run a mounted King, so keep that in mind. This unit is very simply, it can charge 24" in any direction at any time, and statistically breaks a fully ranked unit of T3 infantry on the charge quite easily. Very useful aganst skirmishing units, and high elf elites. Only ways in at 205 points!

3 Chariots with no command: A variation on the above concept. They can only flank to run down fully ranked unit (which they do quite easily mind you, as HW+Sh units lose the bonus, so will only save on 6+ against your impact hits and spears), but their real use is that they are cheap at only 120 points, and can easily take out many of the MSU combinations out there, as well as beast herds, diverters, small WE and HE units and so on.

15 Heavy Horsemen with Champion, Standard, Banner of the Undying Legion or War Banner: Banner is a personal choice, though typically Legion is slightly more popular as at the end of the day, the unit is just 15 T3 4+ wounds, which is easily shot or magic'd to death. An extra incantation is always great. This unit has 2 ranks, standard and outnumber, so is theoretically drawing against a full ranked unit, but you can easily enough shoot of a rank before committing yourself. The unit is also problematic for cavalry armies, with its potential 24" move. The final good point is that the unit does indeed move 8" a turn - meaning its rather quick, taking pressure of your incantations.

Otherwise, light horsemen are often overlooked, but personally I would never leave home without them!
]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/212989/311026.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/212989/311026.page GMT Tomb Kings
He can use his 'spell' to allow it to shoot in the magic phase and typical warmachine killers won't risk charging it as the prince will hammer it.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/212989/311043.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/212989/311043.page GMT Tomb Kings http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/212989/311051.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/212989/311051.page GMT Tomb Kings 40k and have just recently started looking into Fantasy and Tomb Kings specifically. What styles of list compositions are out there for TK?]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/212989/311844.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/212989/311844.page GMT Tomb Kings -Positional MSU army (basically you play like its chess)
-Shooty/Counterchargey/Anvil list
-MLU Infantry]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/212989/311977.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/212989/311977.page GMT Tomb Kings RTT that i ran played tomb kings. he had a king on a chariot, a prince on a chariot, two liche preists, two units of three a pieace of chariots two tomb scorpions, two bone ginats, three of the larger based minis, cant remember what they were called. anywho it was no contest he barreled over everybody but of course he is our most experianced player around my neck of the woods. people who played him were more concerned about the bon giants and didnt bother with the chariots. it was the chariots that won him the games.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/212989/312003.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/212989/312003.page GMT Tomb Kings http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/212989/312093.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/212989/312093.page GMT Tomb Kings
nieto666 wrote:well the person who won the last RTT that i ran played tomb kings. he had a king on a chariot, a prince on a chariot, two liche preists, two units of three a pieace of chariots two tomb scorpions, two bone ginats, three of the larger based minis, cant remember what they were called. anywho it was no contest he barreled over everybody but of course he is our most experianced player around my neck of the woods. people who played him were more concerned about the bon giants and didnt bother with the chariots. it was the chariots that won him the games.


Partly because he had the movement rules for monsters wrong.. The fact no one caught that monsters don't have 360 LOS lent his army much more maneuverability than it would have normally. Knowing what I know now, I would definitely have either forced a draw or won against him. Although, I will say this much: DO NOT UNDERESTIMATE THE CHARIOTS!! I let him cast the movement spell to charge a unit of Kroxigor because I knew any attacks back I got would have eliminated a chariot with each successful wound.. That didn't matter, because the entire unit was bowled over with his opening attacks!]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/212989/312236.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/212989/312236.page GMT Tomb Kings http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/212989/312260.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/212989/312260.page GMT Tomb Kings CR. As they charge, give them a stand and shoot, then hope you've depleted their units to the point you can win combat by 1-2 and force an auto-break due to outnumbering+fear. It's not a very cerebral army and it definitely shows it's weakness against other undead armies, other gunlines or armies with lots of heavy armored units. Still, against any army that has to make it's way into close combat that suffers from poor armor, you'll chew to pieces..]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/212989/312442.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/212989/312442.page GMT Tomb Kings
Winning omb Kings players concentrate on the movement phase, not the shooting phase. SSCs are for drawing dispel scrolls out early, they cannot be relied on as a source of victory in the same way a flank charge can be.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/212989/313353.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/212989/313353.page GMT Tomb Kings
fazz wrote:Thats an awful tactic, made all the more misleading by the fact you reccomend stand and shoot reactions, which Tomb Kings cannot do.

Winning omb Kings players concentrate on the movement phase, not the shooting phase. SSCs are for drawing dispel scrolls out early, they cannot be relied on as a source of victory in the same way a flank charge can be.


Ive come to understand that shooting can actually be quite effective for tomb kings but i have to agree with you on the point that all goo TK players concentrate on the movement phase.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/212989/313580.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/212989/313580.page GMT Re:Tomb Kings
Unit of 20 Tomb Guard w/Full command and Icon of Rakoph, led by Tomb King with Destroyer of Eternities

Expensive, sure, but the amount of nonsense this unit can get up to boggles the mind. The free reform move prior to the move phase allows them to threat a charge in any direction over ridiculous distances, while the fact that Smite allows the king to use the Destroyer's super swing makes your smites just as important for the enemy to stop as your urgencies.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/212989/313608.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/212989/313608.page GMT Tomb Kings At 2000 pts your game will revolve around how well that unit does.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/212989/313879.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/212989/313879.page GMT Tomb Kings
He is unlikely to be able to help set-up key flank charges.

DoE isnt even that good if your opponent isnt on a 20mm base! And its 70 points!

I have always found Cloak+FoS+Collar to be much better all around for all the obvious reasons.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/212989/313928.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/212989/313928.page GMT Re:Tomb Kings TK army at all without getting this thing in the mix somewhere, and the fighting Lord w/70 points sword makes it hard to hold it up in battle.

@fazz: It's an incredible unit. The character is a Tomb King, his incantations are always going to be meaningful. In the early rounds he's urgencying nearby Carrion/Chariots or smiting a catapult. In the later rounds he's urgencying the Death Star itself or a nearby Ushabti block. Once he charges in his smite becomes a Must Block, as it threatens to clean the enemy champion out of the front line and possibly kill their characters.

As for the DOE not being a good buy at 70 points, I urge you to try it out. The FoS can't even begin to compare. Killing Blow on a weapon that hits twice in the magic phase and twice again in the combat phase is incredible. It being s7 is icing on the cake. It hitting everyone touching the king is an entirely seperate cake to digest at leisure.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/212989/314488.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/212989/314488.page GMT Tomb Kings
fazz wrote:Thats an awful tactic, made all the more misleading by the fact you reccomend stand and shoot reactions, which Tomb Kings cannot do.

Winning omb Kings players concentrate on the movement phase, not the shooting phase. SSCs are for drawing dispel scrolls out early, they cannot be relied on as a source of victory in the same way a flank charge can be.


These aren't my tactics and I'm unfamiliar with TK outside of playing against them. The general premise is still the same: shoot the hell out of them, use your magic for a last minute reform before getting charged so you have some CR. All the unit has to do is survive the turn, then you can have some nasty nearby unit like some chariots or ushabti smash the flank and clear most units out. But like I said: it's not a very mentally challenging or rewarding style of play.. "I shoot you alot and hope you die" shouldn't be your only tactic on the table..]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/212989/314574.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/212989/314574.page GMT Tomb Kings TK healing spell?]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/212989/314578.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/212989/314578.page GMT Tomb Kings http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/212989/314622.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/212989/314622.page GMT Tomb Kings
@fazz: It's an incredible unit. The character is a Tomb King, his incantations are always going to be meaningful. In the early rounds he's urgencying nearby Carrion/Chariots or smiting a catapult. In the later rounds he's urgencying the Death Star itself or a nearby Ushabti block. Once he charges in his smite becomes a Must Block, as it threatens to clean the enemy champion out of the front line and possibly kill their characters.

As for the DOE not being a good buy at 70 points, I urge you to try it out. The FoS can't even begin to compare. Killing Blow on a weapon that hits twice in the magic phase and twice again in the combat phase is incredible. It being s7 is icing on the cake. It hitting everyone touching the king is an entirely seperate cake to digest at leisure.
EDITED by JFRAZELL

If in the Guard, your TK moves 4" a turn. Thats all. There is NO WAY he is smiting chariots AND a catapult at the same time, unless you have deployed veryvery poorly. He only has a 6" cast range, so either your chariot is far up the board and your chariots are very central around the guard (ie...bad) or you are only going to be smiting the catapult in early turns, then praying your opponent is stupid enough to get within 12" of the unit.

DoE is terrible. Your going to move 4" a turn...sure its wonderful if you can get into combat at that rate, against enemies on 20mm bases...otherwise your going to kill two enemies a turn which is hardly impressive. Have you ever tried FoS+Cloak? Every spell you cast has to be dispelled, and you can easily rout flankers, ogres, monsters and most cav units with just this model.

Im speaking from experience, the DoE sucks.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/212989/314701.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/212989/314701.page GMT Re:Tomb Kings
"If in the Guard, your TK moves 4" a turn. Thats all."

Ah, I see the source of my miscommunication, I meant Tomb Guard with Icon of Rakoph. So you do the usual pre-move reform into a column pointing whatever way you want to go, moving no model more than 8. Then you take your move, adding models to the front of the unit as described under changing formation, at the cost of sacrificing half your movement. Now you've effectively moved 8" in any direction, at the cost of half your movement. Then you've got 2 inches left to trudge forward, so you end up 10" from starting. Urgency can give you a further 8" charge or 4" move, if you can get it off.

"There is NO WAY he is smiting chariots AND a catapult at the same time"

Typically, in the first round I fly carrion out in front and everyone throws urgency at them till they get it, or we draw the enemy scrolls. Obviously you wouldn't want this vs. certain armies, but it's clearly easy to have the TK within 6" of them. As for the catapult, it's pretty clearly behind the battle line, so as long as you haven't rushed out with your assault units yet you've probably got range to it. Granted, having the Tomb Guard near the catapult may constitute deploying "very very poorly", but I've found it to be a fairly natural place for my big nasty unit, in the center of my army.

DoE vs. FoS

I'm not knocking FoS, but even on the first round (obviously later on its not worth discussion, as FOS runs into armor save issues) a smite on the DOE is more dangerous, right? I mean, the FOS has 2/3 to hit and then 5/6 to wound doubling to 2, while the DOE just has 2 5/6 to wound, with killing blow potential, and multiplies by the # of guys in combat. You might execute the enemy characters right out in the magic phase, and you'll almost certainly take out their champ, which will prevent them from controlling the challenge. Wouldn't it be more important to dispel the DOE's smite than the FOS's? So it's probably more important to block my king's smites than yours, and as for urgency, hmm, yeah, I'll concede that one to the flying king. He's probably much better at getting his urgency precisely where it needs to go.

Anyways, this formation is my contribution to the OP's request for TK tactics. It works for me, maybe it's not the best, but I'd urge that the OP give it a stab before going with the more tried and true stuff. Fazz, I'll let you have the last word, and peace out.

]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/212989/314842.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/212989/314842.page GMT Tomb Kings
Ill add some more, so the OP, and any other reader gets even more goodies.

Yeah, I know the Rakaph trick, its pretty nasty You can actually move any model during the reform up to double their base movement, so 8" in any direction given the wording, so if your unit can actually have models move to to 8" from its existing width - I have seen this used to create a 20" charge before (unit was about 5" wide, move model a max of 8", then declare charge for 20" charge :S) Thats fairly brutal against certain lists.

From what im hearing about your deplyment - and obviously I cannot see it, it sounds like the Guard and quite central, say, the hub of the force, with the SSC nearby and everything operating around that? Thats not poor per se, but it only works against certain builds, which I dont see at all when I play - if your opponent is still happy to engage you head on, yes, the combination you champion is the best TK can provide. No question..

Smiting is 5 to 6 times better on the DoE than it is on the FoS. No doubt. DoE however, is very poor against cavalry with a 1+ (as is FoS) and fairly useless against monster type creatures (2 automatic hits doesnt impress, while the FoS is out of this world). FoS has additional utility against unit champions, or whenever you REALLY want a character dead; its S7 hits either way really, but double wounds usually will cause more damage than 2 shots at killing blow.

The big thing is cost - the DoE is 70 points, compared to 45 for the FoS. Its a matter of course; being able to give the cloak to the king means his incantation range is now 26"...he can move 20" then magically charge a further 8"...or be wherever you need him - I think you miss a lot of utility with the DoE/Guard centric build. That, and well, there are units out there that will obliterate it (damn you Black Knights / High Elves (Dark Elves soon!))

am currently first ranked in the GW 2008 40k tournament circuit, so I've got a bit of math cred, but I'm willing to concede you as the superior fantasy authority, my experience being somewhat limited.
Well bloody done! Thats very very impressive.

Im a real fantasy buff, ive been playing since I was 10, so 11 years now, winning my first tournament at age 15...I really need to learn not to just expect everyone to agree with me, especially when I do not properly explain myself Again, thanks for reacting so well, I deserved much worse!

How have you been running your chariots? Ive been toying with 4 with St+ War banner, then 2 x 3 as mage/skirmishers/light cav hunters or flankers. The unit of 4 pretty easily breaks fully ranked units head on.

One other hing I should say, is the US lists I see are MUCH MUCH more friendly than what I play against - it seems there people actually, you know "battle" with units fighting Here, you have to grab hold of someone with two hands to get them into combat with you! I think thats where my love of the flying king comes from - he suits my local/national metagame better...but that in no way means that the DoE isnt as good, if not better, just in different climtates.



]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/212989/314905.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/212989/314905.page GMT Tomb Kings http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/212989/315138.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/212989/315138.page GMT Re:Tomb Kings
40kenthusiast wrote:
Ah, I see the source of my miscommunication, I meant Tomb Guard with Icon of Rakoph. So you do the usual pre-move reform into a column pointing whatever way you want to go, moving no model more than 8. Then you take your move, adding models to the front of the unit as described under changing formation, at the cost of sacrificing half your movement. Now you've effectively moved 8" in any direction, at the cost of half your movement. Then you've got 2 inches left to trudge forward, so you end up 10" from starting. Urgency can give you a further 8" charge or 4" move, if you can get it off.



Wait. I distinctly remember a TK FAQ that said that undead of all kinds could NOT reform double movement (8 for infantry, 16 for cav/chariots) and were limited to reforming their normal movement. That's why I abandoned the army, as my snaking chariots couldn't manage forward displacement if they reformed.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/212989/315382.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/212989/315382.page GMT Tomb Kings FAQ clarification has been removed. You can certainly use it - makes those chariots effectively movement 16" (4" depth of unit, and the normal penalty for turning around), and the TG with Icon very very quick.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/212989/315465.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/212989/315465.page GMT Tomb Kings
Ginrai wrote:I play a lot with tomb kings, and it depends on your way of playing. I prefer to use a lot of fire power, so i use catapults, and 3 units of 10 archers, with the ark of soul behind up in a cliff i can. On one the side I place 6 chariots with 2 units of light cavalry, and in the other side I place hte bone giant and one or two scorpions. Some time I put an unit of grave guards behind the archers, so when the enemie comes at charging distance, I move my archers so that they leave a pasage open for the grave guard. Of course you´ll need priest, princes, and/ or kings. but more or less that it.


That's probably how I would end up playing them since as is obvious from my signature I am a Tau player in 40k.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/212989/317863.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/212989/317863.page GMT Tomb Kings TK to work at optimum capacity.]]> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/212989/318122.page http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/212989/318122.page GMT